[HN Gopher] Pleasures by Aldous Huxley (1920)
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       Pleasures by Aldous Huxley (1920)
        
       Author : waihtis
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2024-02-25 20:09 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
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       | boomskats wrote:
       | Note that this was probably written in 1923 rather than 1920, if
       | the second paragraph is anything to go by.
        
       | smallerdemon wrote:
       | "These effortless pleasures, these ready-made distractions that
       | are the same for every one over the face of the whole Western
       | world, are surely a worse menace to our civilization than ever
       | the Germans were."
       | 
       | Well... this aged like fine milk in retrospect to what was coming
       | 20 years down the line.
        
         | zer00eyz wrote:
         | Considering how complacent everyone got in the interwar period
         | about what was going on... I dont think any one at that point
         | in time thought they would do it all over again, 20 years
         | later, with Germany.
        
         | randomburner99 wrote:
         | Incorrect on multiple grounds, the first being that the Nazis
         | were in part a reaction against the kind of society that Huxley
         | sees developing.
        
         | pizzafeelsright wrote:
         | Sometimes, I wonder if it took the collective world to defeat
         | one country perhaps they were superior to all other nations.
         | Then I remember wrong think is a crime and push those thoughts
         | away.
        
           | ulrashida wrote:
           | Yes, because as we all remember there were no countries
           | allied with Germany for any duration of the war.
        
           | rexpop wrote:
           | This is how you sound, to me:
           | 
           | "Sometimes, I wonder if it took the collective organs to
           | defeat one pathogen perhaps they were superior to all other
           | organisms."
           | 
           | If we must, there are other rubrics by which to judge
           | "superiority" than capacity for destruction and domination.
        
           | marviel wrote:
           | You seem to believe capacity for destruction & dominance is
           | the metric by which a society should be valued.
           | 
           | I hope you take a moment to consider what the world would be
           | like if all lived according to your implied ideals
        
           | lm28469 wrote:
           | To defeat "one country" ? Do you have access to history
           | books?
        
         | mantas wrote:
         | It aged very well looking at what was coming 100 years down the
         | line.
        
       | gatane wrote:
       | "Do the democracies want music? In the old days they would have
       | made it themselves. Now, they merely turn on the gramophone."
       | 
       | "Kids these days bad, older times good!" - as far as humanity has
       | existed.
        
         | randomburner99 wrote:
         | Yes, that is how decline works. Technology constantly makes
         | life easier: does this mean "better"? In a sense, yes. But the
         | mind tends to atrophy.
        
           | rexpop wrote:
           | Have we been in decline for 2,500 years?[0]
           | 
           | 0. https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-
           | complaining-a...
        
             | overvale wrote:
             | It is possible for the best aspects of a people/society to
             | atrophy while they simultaneously expand their
             | wealth/technology/etc.
             | 
             | We can make the world an undeniably better place while also
             | loosing vital things. It's not a zero-sum game. Have we
             | been doing this for 2,500 years? Probably.
             | 
             | It feels like a contradiction only if it's zero sum. But we
             | generate more vital things than we lose, so it feels like
             | (is) progress. But that doesn't mean we're not losing vital
             | things.
        
         | zitterbewegung wrote:
         | As he population has grown with the respect to the existence of
         | recorded music less and leee people are encouraged to even make
         | their own music than to play songs that are done by the best.
         | 
         | I can play the piano and I can done some improvisation but,
         | everyone doesn't care about my improv because I'm not good
         | enough but frequently you will get famous song is asked to be
         | played live.
        
           | vonjuice wrote:
           | There should be a collective shift towards making art for art
           | itself, and for one self, in the same way that yoga and
           | meditation are encouraged.
           | 
           | Comparing end products and foregoing the process itself,
           | people don't know what they're throwing out.
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | It's as dumb as saying: everything new is "progress" and
         | "progress" is always good. Which is apparently the main
         | religion for a good 150 years
        
       | zer00eyz wrote:
       | >> Like every man of sense and good feeling, I abominate work.
       | But I would rather put in eight hours a day at a Government
       | office than be condemned to lead a life of "pleasure"; I would
       | even, I believe, prefer to write a million words of journalism a
       | year.
       | 
       | I adore Huxley. Brave New World, The Doors of Perception, Those
       | Barren Leaves...
       | 
       | I think the overmedication facet of Brave New World is so very
       | true. We know we have an opioid problem because people are
       | addicted and then dying. I think it would be naive to think that
       | we aren't doing the same with everything in psychopharmacology.
        
         | whaleofatw2022 wrote:
         | Agree on some level.
         | 
         | Over my life I have found that some things, yes I do need
         | medication for, but I -personally- do not need anti depressants
         | to be happy...
         | 
         | However people in society increasingly take the view of 'you
         | need medication' rather than "maybe when this person tells me
         | what is bothering them I should reflect on if I'm contributing
         | to the problem"
        
           | zer00eyz wrote:
           | I begrudge no one their medication.
           | 
           | I have been blessed with some very dear friends over my life.
           | My first brush with the ills of psychopharmacology was with a
           | woman I knew whose mother had just passed. I went to visit
           | her a few days after the funeral and she was rather spry. I,
           | being a man of little regard for my own well being asked the
           | probing question "You seem rather upbeat". It was met with a
           | resounding "I know, and I can't even cry". She removed prozac
           | from her life shortly after, went through a bought of horrid
           | depression (putting off processing things means you pay
           | later). Today she's happy, bright and successful...
           | 
           | I have a current friend who is "suffering from anxiety and
           | depression". Her life is hard, for a number of reasons.
           | Medication makes her "happy" and she does not address the
           | structural issues in her life. You can't help those who wont
           | help themselves, I get that. But if you dont feel the pain
           | how do you know to pull back from the fire.
        
             | lm7272 wrote:
             | honestly really do not think you understand SSRIs or anti
             | depressants at all man. Never once encountered people being
             | unable to cry or feel negative things whilst on anti-
             | depressants. Even if you have, to disregard antidepressants
             | as some evil big pharma mind control is so incredibly
             | narrow minded.
        
               | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
               | I don't think GPs post generalises well(nor does any
               | simple statement on phychopharmacology, everyone is and
               | reacts differently), but I've spoken to many people who
               | have reported emotional blunting from SSRIs. It's a
               | fairly common complaint. Being "upbeat" from
               | antidepressants also happens a lot to people with bipolar
               | disorder, who are often misdiagnosed with and mistreated
               | for depression before their first episode of
               | hypomania/mania.
        
             | lazide wrote:
             | Considering how the exact same thing happens without meds,
             | but people will just kill themselves more sometimes.....
        
               | zer00eyz wrote:
               | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17728420/
               | 
               | Except kids.
               | 
               | Barbiturates were a problem for how many decades? How
               | much over prescription were there of "mothers little
               | helpers"? How about oxy? How many people did that kill?
               | How about benzodiazepines? DO we even have accurate data
               | on that, or did we just stop looking at the long term
               | effects.
               | 
               | We're not studying the impact of over prescription of
               | psychopharmacology. There is NO data on what happens if
               | you give these drugs to people who DONT need them. Zero,
               | None. And we would be very naive to think that we dont
               | have that problem.
               | 
               | Edit: The only reduction in suicide rate of those taking
               | SSRI's vs those getting a placebo is in the over 65 age
               | group.
        
         | conradev wrote:
         | Have you read Island? It lays out Aldous' idea of utopia, and
         | it's pretty compelling
        
         | CTDOCodebases wrote:
         | Pleasure does not exist in the absence of pain.
         | 
         | It's the avoidance of pain that is the problem.
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | On the other hand, maybe it would have been better to devote more
       | effort to pleasure.
       | 
       | In a few years from when it was written, Germany would be
       | devoting the full power of a modern industrial economy, not to
       | pleasure but to wipe out undesirable people.
       | 
       | They would is the newly developing field of electronic data
       | processing, not for pleasure to to better target people for
       | death.
       | 
       | Planes would be built not for people to travel on vacation, but
       | to drop bombs.
       | 
       | Factories would work around the clock, not producing goods for
       | pleasure, but weapons of death.
       | 
       | The greatest group of geniuses ever assembled, would be given an
       | unlimited budget not to develop new forms of pleasure but to
       | develop a weapon that could vaporize an entire city in a few
       | seconds.
        
         | readthenotes1 wrote:
         | Store-bought pleasure, the opiate of the elite?
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | I have to believe there is a middle ground between devoting
         | life to pleasure and trying to exterminate a race of people.
         | That middle ground is most of what we call life today.
        
       | dansiemens wrote:
       | > In place of the old pleasures demanding intelligence and
       | personal initiative, we have vast organizations that provide us
       | with ready-made distractions - distractions which demand from
       | pleasure-seekers no personal participation and no intellectual
       | effort of any sort
       | 
       | This feels true in some sense for every generation; bemoaning the
       | insolence of the current youth feels like a rite of passage.
       | However, it also seems true that the youth of today have a lower
       | barrier of access to "pleasure" than any other humans in history.
        
       | rwasco wrote:
       | This is a natural conseqence of copyright law. It is hard for
       | local talent to compete against unnatural monopolies. We
       | subsidized mass produced media at the expense of decentralized
       | talent.
        
         | zibzob wrote:
         | I'm not sure abolishing copyright would make much of a
         | difference, in terms of increasing the number of people who can
         | professionally make media. Supply and demand doesn't work
         | properly in mass media, because one movie can supply the demand
         | of everybody in the entire world, pretty much. We don't need a
         | singer in every town, we only need a handful of talented people
         | who can supply the music demands for everybody in the world -
         | it doesn't really matter who they are. I'm exaggerating a bit,
         | but that's how I generally feel about it.
         | 
         | (Having said that, this article is pretty much "old man yells
         | at cloud" for me.)
        
       | parentheses wrote:
       | Huxley was talking about a time when most work was manual labor
       | (tend the farm, smith the axe). While there was an intellectual
       | element it was imbued into the physical aspect of the work.
       | Today, work is more intellectual. It makes complete sense that
       | pleasures are not so much so.
       | 
       | It's a great abstract discussion. Increases in technology have
       | made it possible to use human intellect to move society forward,
       | but also make pleasure that much easier to attain.
       | 
       | I don't really have a point here but I find the topic very
       | amusing to think about. I feel guilty watching hours of TV during
       | the week to unwind. At the same time, it helps me to relax.
       | Pleasure that comes from physical work seems to always have a
       | greater positive outcome for me. OTOH, mental pleasure sense to
       | leave me depleted even more so. TV is an interesting mental
       | pleasure that does help.
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-25 23:00 UTC)