[HN Gopher] Some OpenBSD features that aren't widely known
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       Some OpenBSD features that aren't widely known
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 143 points
       Date   : 2024-02-24 16:57 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dataswamp.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dataswamp.org)
        
       | anonymous_union wrote:
       | the install process in OpenBSD has to be the most simple i have
       | ever used, it is not surprising that it is easily automatable.
       | 
       | overall such a solid operating system. learning about it pays off
       | quickly because they don't change things often, and your
       | knowledge will be applicable for decades to come.
        
         | arcanemachiner wrote:
         | I definitely want more BSD in my life. But I also like, for
         | example, Docker containers. BSD seems like a better OS overall,
         | but I already know Linux quite well and I don't have enough of
         | a compelling reason to switch (yet).
         | 
         | I also have this fear that Linux is gonna rot if Linus Torvalds
         | dies or retires, so it's good to have a nice, clean alternative
         | waiting in the wings.
        
           | umanwizard wrote:
           | Linux is not going to die if Torvalds retires. The worst
           | thing that could happen is it splits into multiple competing
           | forks such that there's no meaningful notion of "upstream",
           | but even that I think is unlikely.
        
             | doublepg23 wrote:
             | If Linus got hit by a bus gregkh would step in the next
             | day.
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | predictions for the futures of linux : more intrusive
           | control, locking and phone-home at BOOT time; more opaque
           | binary blobs that enable that and other things; more
           | restrictions on international distribution for sanctions and
           | other political reasons
           | 
           | BSD ++
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | OpenBSD has blobs too.
        
               | somat wrote:
               | blobs are closed source drivers, executable software that
               | runs on the host CPU.
               | 
               | openbsd has no blobs, only firmware, executable software
               | that runs on the device chip. It still sucks, but there
               | is a difference.
        
               | mlyle wrote:
               | Not everyone defines the words that way. And by your
               | definition-- Linux doesn't have blobs, either, in
               | mainline.
               | 
               | (Microcode, I guess, is one other category)
        
           | DyslexicAtheist wrote:
           | not sure if it's possible to make a comparison between Linux
           | / OpenBSD. Maybe only time this problem presents itself is
           | when one is asked to design the hardware+OS for a network
           | appliance.
           | 
           | Linux, as it stands in terms of security, is an absolute
           | joke. Historically we have Torvalds calling every security
           | conscious user a master-debating monkey. And even more
           | recently (few days ago) we got the LKML / CVE process debate
           | - under which logic anything could technically become a
           | security bug so we should drown ourselves in CVE because it
           | isn't our job to think about whether something might be
           | security relevant. This seems like a bad-faith argument from
           | the Linux community - and I hope they lose it.
           | 
           | Docker ... is really just a bit of glorified buggy networking
           | around namespaces/cgroups. I still remember the days when the
           | docker documentation asked users to curl random sh&it into |
           | sudo bash while talking about the security-benefits totally
           | without blushing. Dockerhub has always been the petridish of
           | choice for malware across critical infra and supply-chain
           | attackers. Yet the community pretends Linux security is great
           | while Windows security is terrible. That old meme was true 20
           | years ago. Today even Microsoft as shit as they are are miles
           | ahead in terms of Linux security.
           | 
           | Linux is great in embedded domains because here nobody cares
           | about security. What is left then is cloud infra which
           | security-wise is a joke as we all know.
           | 
           | BSD understands that complexity is the enemy of security. And
           | Linux essentially offloads any responsibility for the mess
           | they create to the users. This is also because Linux still
           | considers itself as just the Kernel. BSD has more control and
           | is able to keep the entire system logically coherent (and
           | secure). Linux security in comparison is best described by
           | Grugq's slide nr. #35 of his "COMSEC beyond encryption" talk:
           | https://grugq.github.io/presentations/COMSEC%20beyond%20encr.
           | ..
        
             | f1shy wrote:
             | So much true, but being downvoted. A pitty
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | Linux is a well-funded open-source project in use by every
           | major tech organization in the world, as well as the US
           | government. Linux is the last open source project I expect to
           | see die by attrition specifically. IIRC, and as someone
           | mentioned, there are people ready to step up if certain
           | higher-ups retire or perish.
        
             | generalizations wrote:
             | Not die - rot. All those major tech organizations want
             | their own stuff in the kernel, and I'm skeptical they have
             | the long term viability of linux at heart - rather than,
             | say, the needs of their internal tech, quarterly stock, or
             | even a promotion or two. I've seen examples surface even
             | here on hn of Linus taking down e.g. google engineers for
             | submitting bad code. What happens when Linus isn't there,
             | with the leverage to insist on technical excellence? Linux
             | won't die, but it will ossify and rot.
        
         | somat wrote:
         | It is hard for me to quantify why the openbsd install is so
         | good. But as an anecdote. when I need a linux I keep going back
         | to void linux, mainly because the installer is modeled directly
         | off the openbsd installer.
        
           | dijit wrote:
           | void linux in general is great if you are looking for a "no-
           | magic" linux install where you can conceivably control all
           | moving parts of the system.
        
         | user3939382 wrote:
         | pf has had bad breaking changes at times, about which the BDFL
         | says "we're in a better place" but in general it's stable.
        
       | slow_typist wrote:
       | talk is a really cool (and very old) chat program, also available
       | on most Linux distributions and I think it was also standard on
       | VMS.
        
         | enriquto wrote:
         | ytalk has to be the best user-interface that I've ever known.
         | It's a multiplayer tmux! We used it to do pair programming
         | remotely around 2003. Your terminal is divided in two parts,
         | one half for you and the other half for your colleague. You get
         | to see what the other does. It needs no complicated
         | infrastructure: just xterm, ssh and talk.
        
           | dtaht wrote:
           | someone should update talk to ipv6.
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | Very nice, apmd backup hook looks interesting
        
       | reramuyc wrote:
       | OpenBSD isn't widely known...lol
        
       | karlzt wrote:
       | talk is great and cool but why they added it to the base system?
        
         | mike_hock wrote:
         | And if it's supposed to be used to talk locally, why doesn't it
         | use Unix sockets?
        
           | shawn_w wrote:
           | It's not limited to local chat.
        
         | shawn_w wrote:
         | Probably in the base installation because it's a standard POSIX
         | utility.
        
         | petee wrote:
         | Without digging deep, it's an optional POSIX utility; likely
         | still included for historical reasons, and/or a couple
         | developers still use it somewhere
        
       | hugodan wrote:
       | one feature I really liked about talk is that you can see other
       | people typing as they type, I miss that in nowadays chat apps, it
       | provided for some very cool interactions with friends
        
         | 6c696e7578 wrote:
         | Like the BBS chat programs of old :)
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | you mean every char is streamed real-time ? even typos,
         | backspaces etc ?
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Yes, you get every character (the early implementations are
           | extremely simple).
        
           | hugodan wrote:
           | No^H^HYes
        
       | daneel_w wrote:
       | I'll add "accounting" as another:                 man 8 accton
       | (https://man.openbsd.org/accton.8)       man 8 sa
       | (https://man.openbsd.org/sa.8)
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-24 23:01 UTC)