[HN Gopher] Power Metal: is it really about dragons? (2018)
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       Power Metal: is it really about dragons? (2018)
        
       Author : guardienaveugle
       Score  : 269 points
       Date   : 2024-02-24 07:47 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (notes.atomutek.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (notes.atomutek.org)
        
       | gnatolf wrote:
       | This is lovely!
       | 
       | Since I always struggle with the ton of subgenres, some lyric
       | based clustering is as good as anything to separate genres.
       | 
       | Maybe we should run this on all that has electric guitars...
        
         | lukan wrote:
         | "some lyric based clustering is as good as anything to separate
         | genres"
         | 
         | I think melody and rhythm are kind of important, too (otherwise
         | a minstrels verbal recitation could count as power metal). But
         | it definitely is a good metric.
        
           | gnatolf wrote:
           | I wonder whether bands are more consistent in style of play
           | over their lifetime, as compared to lyrics or other
           | 'metrics'. It's probably easy to find all types of
           | variance/consistency.
           | 
           | My hunch would be that the more specific and entrenched a
           | genre is, the closer these bands stick to their styles (and
           | lyrics).
        
             | lukan wrote:
             | "My hunch would be that the more specific and entrenched a
             | genre is, the closer these bands stick to their styles (and
             | lyrics)."
             | 
             | They usually also have the problem, that their fans often
             | don't like them to change. They want more of what they
             | know, but better. Not different (especially in entrenched
             | genres).
             | 
             | Turisas for example, a band making songs mainly about
             | vikings. I watched them live a few years ago - was quite
             | good, but the band made remarks that they do not take the
             | whole viking thing that serious (nostalgic buisness they
             | called it) and would rather play something else. And they
             | did one song in the end, in a quite different style
             | (sounded like futuristic metal) but the audience was not
             | thrilled - they were there for viking and glorious battle
             | metal. So this is what Turisas are still playing, this is
             | what brings them money, but they have not made a new album
             | in over 10 years, but how can you make a good album, with a
             | theme you don't find that exiting anymore?
        
               | powermetal wrote:
               | If you want that, ideally you should spin up a new band
               | name for a project thats too different in style from a
               | band whose style you have already established. Its not
               | that people resist change, thats how thrash metal bands
               | changed into death metal slowly and the invention of
               | death metal is highly celebrated. But it was a slow and
               | organic change. Typically bands that have some sense
               | about this tend to spin up a different name if they want
               | to play something totally different from their existing
               | band.
        
               | lukan wrote:
               | In general, for sure. Only some big bands have managed to
               | change their style and have their fans follow them. For
               | most a different band would make the most sense. And I am
               | only guessing about Turisas, but they probably should
               | have done so, but it was probably more comfortable to
               | make money with the established hits and name. Starting
               | something new is not easy, after all.
        
               | necromantic wrote:
               | If the musicians are already famous from one or other
               | particular band, then they should easily pull up a strong
               | fan following for their other projects too. Just look at
               | how many people look up the large number of random
               | projects of Speckmann even if say they had found out the
               | band "Master" first.
        
       | justforasingle wrote:
       | I found power metal because I was looking for a more positive
       | sub-genre of metal. What I was listening to before often had
       | ahrimanic themes - death, violence, satanism etc.
        
         | Semaphor wrote:
         | I'm not big into power metal (I prefer death, violence and
         | satanism ;)), but let me recommend you an extremely positive
         | power metal band that I absolutely love: Fellowship from the UK
         | https://fellowshipmetal.bandcamp.com/album/the-saberlight-ch...
        
         | bogdan wrote:
         | I grew up on power metal and nowadays I mainly listen to two
         | genres: black metal and classical music. One of the things they
         | have in common is that I can't understand a word in either. I
         | really appreciate that because I find lyrics in songs
         | distracting and most of the time cringy.
        
           | spindle wrote:
           | I'm the same. Fortunately for me, I don't understand
           | Japanese, and there's some great Japanese power metal - e.g.
           | Marge Litch and Alhambra.
        
           | mikub wrote:
           | Almost the same for me, It's either blackmetal, classic or
           | some ambient which works best for me when I want to
           | concentrate on something. But sometimes I still need to
           | listen to some good old cheesy Powermetal, sing along and
           | feel like I should start immediately to conquer the world to
           | defeat all the evil that is out there. ;)
        
           | aerhardt wrote:
           | I can't listen to music with vocals at work, but I still
           | listen to power metal 20 years later in quite a few contexts
           | - gym, car, walk, simply active listening. I can't argue with
           | the quality of the lyrics being cringey though.
           | 
           | I've always thought it's a combination of the genre being
           | niche and being founded on a set of lyrical themes that are
           | restrictive - and maybe particularly challenging -, and also,
           | the fact that _a lot_ of these bands aren 't from English-
           | speaking countries. The bands from anglo countries like
           | Kamelot tend to write acceptable lyrics within the power
           | metal context (Manowar lyrics are hilarious at times and
           | arguably well-written, but they are not power metal IMO).
           | There are some noteable exceptions to non-anglo bands with
           | polished lyrics, like perhaps Nightwish or Blind Guardian,
           | but a common occurrence otherwise is to find shitty English,
           | which at least for me is an instant turnoff.
        
             | mikub wrote:
             | I can imagine some lyrics can be hard to listen to for an
             | english speaking native. Manowar made a german version of
             | "Heart of steal" it's called "Herz aus Stahl" it's so bad
             | when I heard it for the first time I thought "Oh man I hope
             | we don't sound that bad to all the people who speak english
             | when we're singing english."
        
               | aerhardt wrote:
               | I don't know if it's that bad... In my experience the
               | English lyrics from these euro power metal bands are ~98%
               | good, but then there's the odd line that has you reach
               | for a thesaurus to see if that's real English or they've
               | pulled it out of their butts, and most of the time it's
               | the latter. It's pretty off-putting, it would be
               | perfectly OK if that was it, but it often brings your
               | attention to the fact that the lyrics are very weak in
               | general.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Did some dialog work for a German game company when I was
               | younger.
               | 
               | In one of the raw scripts I received from the German
               | side, I remember staring at "medicament" for a long time,
               | before looking it up.
               | 
               | So yes, I know the feeling. :)
        
               | devonkim wrote:
               | FWIW, Kreator, Scorpions, Destruction, Sodom, and
               | basically every other German metal band probably have
               | better English than most native speaker groups for the
               | past 40+ years. Americans in particular seem to do quite
               | poorly at speaking other languages partly because to be
               | American, particularly in cities, one needs to know
               | several dialects given the many different creoles and
               | vernacular groups due to the country being so massive and
               | diverse.
        
             | Bahamut wrote:
             | Interestingly enough, I believe while Kamelot was founded
             | in the US, most of the members are from Europe currently.
             | 
             | One thing I learned ~15 years ago was that Nightwish
             | commissioned lyrics from lyricists (one such commissioned
             | person told me himself I believe a year or two after Dark
             | Passion Play was released - they never used what he wrote
             | for them though) - maybe that helps give the polished
             | impression for some.
        
           | DinaCoder99 wrote:
           | There's a lot of overlap between metal and classical music
           | (by which I mean orchestral, symphonic, and chamber, not the
           | specific age). Something about the composition and structure
           | of the music activates similar parts of my brain, and both
           | are excellent to work to.
           | 
           | (Of course, there's only so far you can push this--some metal
           | bands are much closer to pop or jazz, and some classical
           | music is quite distinctively its own thing.)
        
             | nickjj wrote:
             | > There's a lot of overlap between metal and classical
             | music (by which I mean orchestral, symphonic, and chamber,
             | not the specific age).
             | 
             | Yep, there's a whole bunch of bands in the symphonic
             | deathcore genre. Shadow of Intent, The Archaic Epidemic,
             | Lorna Shore and Immortal Disfigurement are a few that come
             | to mind.
        
           | rendaw wrote:
           | Lyrics in metal I assume? Otherwise that's a rather wide
           | brush.
        
           | Blackthorn wrote:
           | If it's not cheesy, it's not power metal. Eventually you just
           | realize that you're a cheesy person yourself and embrace it.
        
           | scruple wrote:
           | I listen to mostly non-English European black metal at work
           | for the same reason.
        
         | aerhardt wrote:
         | I found power metal when I was a kid because one of the things
         | I like the most about rock and metal are operatic but growly
         | vocals. I consider some of the singers in this list, like Jorn
         | Lande (Masterplan, Ark), Oliver Hartmann (At Vance) and Michael
         | Kiske (Helloween) some of the best singers in the history of
         | rock, period.
        
         | Scarblac wrote:
         | What's the genre of Electric Callboy called? Partycore?
         | 
         | See songs like We Got The Moves on YouTube. Music can be really
         | heavy and still all about fun.
        
         | powermetal wrote:
         | Power metal is either brazen ego worship and/or or similarly
         | (to death metal) talking of topics like mass murders and rapes.
         | Though unlike the more neutral/clinical approach of death
         | metal, power metal lyrics usually come from an angle of
         | glorifying these things.
         | 
         | edit: I am merely relaying the common lyrical subjects of the
         | genre. I made no judgment whether its a good or bad thing.
        
           | powermetal wrote:
           | Examples:
           | 
           |  _" Deathrider" (Omen)_
           | 
           | Death rider, you've taken the earth by storm
           | 
           | Death rider, out of sin and hatred you were born
           | 
           | Ride against the wind, shameless killer in the night
           | 
           | Rape another village, before the break of light
           | 
           | Trample down the ashes, grind them with your hate
           | 
           | Take another helpless life, before it's too late
           | 
           |  _" Harder than Steel" (Jag Panzer)_
           | 
           | You put their heads on the grinding wheel
           | 
           | Give 'em hell 'cause you're harder than steel
           | 
           | Oh, you're harder than steel, yeah, ya feel
           | 
           | All for yourself and no one else
           | 
           | -------------------------------
           | 
           | Now of course you can say its just two examples, but it seems
           | to be a decent representative of common themes in power metal
           | lyrics. Obviously the best way to find out would be
           | performing a similar data analysis as the article.
           | 
           | edit: These are both famous power metal bands, in case there
           | was a feeling they were from any other genre:
           | 
           | https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/omen/battle-cry/
           | 
           | https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/jag-panzer/ample-
           | des...
        
             | Exoristos wrote:
             | Your experience of the lyrics might benefit from learning
             | about literary devices. For example:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe_(figure_of_speech)
             | ?... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiperspectivity?wprov
             | =sfti1
        
         | swman wrote:
         | I enjoy death metal because it is aggressive and brutal. It
         | also spans everything from just good ol' vengeance music to
         | literally galactic conquest.
         | 
         | Whatever the case, this kind of music helps me CRUSH the
         | problem at hand. When nothing seems to be working, headbang for
         | a little bit or make a solo mosh pit in my office, and then get
         | back to DESTROYING the problem.
        
       | feldrim wrote:
       | Impressive work. I believe Encyclopaedia Metallum[0] would be a
       | better source for the corpus, though the noise rate would be
       | higher as there are many one-song/single/demo album bands, along
       | with bands making music in multiple genres in different eras in
       | their lifetime.
       | 
       | 0. https://www.metal-archives.com/
        
         | btown wrote:
         | The ability to find lyrics on lyric sites would be a reasonable
         | proxy for sufficient popularity, I'd imagine.
         | 
         | On a semi-related note, when talking about large genre-specific
         | corpuses, https://vgmdb.net has a fascinating scope definition
         | across all things game and animation adjacent, including both
         | the massive doujin (fan-made) music scene and the full
         | discographies of many j-pop artists and composers, all
         | annotated by franchise adjacency with (often) full staff
         | credits: https://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22321
         | 
         | It's a fascinating corpus and one I'd love to analyze deeply
         | one day.
        
           | hypercube33 wrote:
           | For metal lyrics the go to used to be dark lyrics but it
           | never shows in search results.
        
         | camel-cdr wrote:
         | Encyclopaedia Metallum is an amazing resource, it's also quite
         | scrapable. I managed to quickly throw thogether a set of small
         | bash scripts to crossreference the midgard [0] leaks with metal
         | artists.
         | 
         | [0] The midgard (Nazi online shop) sales record was leaked,
         | including personal information, so I won't link it here
        
           | hn_go_brrrrr wrote:
           | Is that cross-reference published anywhere?
        
           | YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
           | What did you find? We know there's plenty of far-right ideas
           | in black metal but other sub-genres?
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | I listen to Power Metal only because it is the closest genre to
       | classical Heavy Metal (Iron Maiden, Ozzy Osbourne,Motorhead,
       | Judas Priest) and almost no band sings classical Heavy Metal
       | anymore.
        
         | Semaphor wrote:
         | > almost no band sings classical Heavy Metal anymore.
         | 
         | That's just not true, at all. Just look for the "trad[itional]"
         | genre. I don't enjoy it, but there are a lot of releases there.
         | 
         | edit: Or just combine heavy metal and either hard rock or
         | thrash on something like RYM, that should also give you a lot
         | of those. Here's Hard Rock + Heavy Metal for the 2020s:
         | https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/2020s/g:all,hard%...
        
         | dazzawazza wrote:
         | I'll seed you Seven Sisters (UK), Riot city (Can), Traveler
         | (Can), Toledo Steel (UK), Road Wolf (Austria), Bullet (Swe),
         | Crazy Lixx (Swe).
         | 
         | Take those to BandCamp/Metal Archives and look for "bands like"
         | these and you'll see there are hundreds of UK, Canadian and
         | Swedish bands.
         | 
         | There is also the ever awesome Jorn (Swe) still putting out
         | amazing Heavy Metal.
         | 
         | Hope that helps. No need to listen to power metal ;)
        
           | einherjae wrote:
           | Jorn is (Nor), not (Swe)
           | 
           | - A Norwegian
        
             | kriberg wrote:
             | I'll fetch the oars. These folks need a visit
        
             | dazzawazza wrote:
             | I'll never accept Norway's separation! /s
             | 
             | A Brit here... sorry. Epic singer either way.
        
           | dleslie wrote:
           | Traveler is amazing, I second that recommendation.
           | 
           | Also, a point of interest: Riot City and Traveler are both
           | from Calgary.
           | 
           | Vancouver, Calgary and Quebec City are sort of the trio of
           | metal in Canada; AFAICT.
        
         | asadotzler wrote:
         | This. Also, it more closely butts up against a couple of other
         | metals I enjoy including symphonic.
        
         | pjgalbraith wrote:
         | There's been a huge revival of traditional heavy metal over the
         | last 10 or so years. Look up NWOTHM for a list of some of the
         | bands.
        
         | mindcrime wrote:
         | Try some of these out:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/@NWOTHMFullAlbums
        
         | powermetal wrote:
         | Trad revival is a big thing these days. But I think there is
         | something subtle about even older power metal that sometimes
         | makes it a bit different from something you'd class as "plain"
         | speed metal. Its a bit hard to put in words precisely. But that
         | is why I love the genre so much. I am not so much into pure
         | speed metal or thrash metal.
        
         | YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
         | Oh man, you're so gonna love this:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_wave_of_traditional_heavy_...
         | 
         | This should probably be your next stop:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/@NWOTHMFullAlbums
         | 
         | And here's a small selection of some of my favourites from that
         | new wave:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsmrGn_1E13fBQkyefFGu...
        
       | tgv wrote:
       | > Bands from Spain ... have an average of more than 1600 words
       | vocabulary
       | 
       | > Country, Nr of bands
       | 
       | > Spain, 1
        
         | aerhardt wrote:
         | A pity, because there was a vibrant power metal scene here in
         | the 90s and 2000s. They mostly sang in Spanish though.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | Spain had Basque speed metal bands, but not Power. Also
           | there's Reno Renardo but it's an obvious parody of Metal, a
           | la Nanowar.
        
             | darkwater wrote:
             | Big Nanowar fan here, but I would not day they parody
             | metal...I mean, they obviously do but at the same time they
             | actually like metal. So, it's not your typical parody, it's
             | more kind of an inside joke.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | The same with Reno Renardo, obviouly they do tons of
               | references to the most known bands.
        
             | aerhardt wrote:
             | I can't tell from your comment whether you're saying that
             | there were no power metal bands in the Basque Country, or
             | more broadly in Spain... If it's the latter: there was
             | absolutely a power metal scene in Spain. Avalanch, Warcry,
             | Dark Moor (in the article) were power metal all the way and
             | extremely prominent in the broader metal scene - they were
             | some of the biggest metal bands of the early 2000s.
             | Saratoga and Tierra Santa were not strictly power metal,
             | but very closely adjacent (especially the latter, both
             | lyrically and musically). There were plenty of smaller
             | bands trying to make it in the space, too.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | Yeah, I forgot about Warcry and Avalanch. Tierra Santa
               | definitively had some overlap with Power Metal.
               | 
               | I was about to say 'Basque Power Metal' bands. Berri
               | Txarrak it's more akin to Rise Against. Su Ta Gar it's
               | speed metal with some thrash influences.
        
           | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
           | It would probably make the analysis a bit difficult, but it
           | would be interesting to see it incorporate more international
           | bands.
           | 
           | Some bands are still going strong, although my favorite band
           | Mago de Oz feels like it definitely peaked between 2000 and
           | 2010 with the release of the Gaia albums. I'm not sure that
           | I'd call all their albums power metal, but some of their
           | newer stuff is definitely more power metal-y.
           | 
           | If anyone is looking for a great Spanish metal album, I'd
           | recommend checking out Gaia II: La voz dormida. It tells a
           | really ambitious story with amazing music to back it. And it
           | ends with an epic 21 minute song that I don't even know how
           | to describe.
        
             | aerhardt wrote:
             | I don't think Mago de Oz was power metal, but their early
             | 2000s material definitely had some influences, since power
             | metal was such an important current in European metal at
             | the time.
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | Mago is Folk Metal. Also, before Gaia there was Finisterra
             | which was everywhere.
        
             | lukan wrote:
             | "2000 and 2010 with the release of the Gaia albums"
             | 
             | That is when I was listening to them and did not follow on
             | them later on. Did they produce anything interesting after
             | that? Even just a single good song?
        
           | Semaphor wrote:
           | Mago de Oz has been active since 1989 and just released
           | another album this year. Lepoka is a more folky band that
           | nevertheless sound very much MdO inspired. Still alive and
           | kicking :)
        
       | agravier wrote:
       | Oh hey Matt nice to see you around here. This post is popular,
       | maybe release the code? :)
        
         | iosonofuturista wrote:
         | I second this motion... I really want to apply this to stoner
         | doom and really see if it's all about "bong" "wizard" "weed"
         | "mammoths" or not!
        
           | robin_reala wrote:
           | Ah, another MWWB fan.
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | OFC Gamma Ray is the least Power Metal band. Gamma Ray it's like
       | blending Helloween and Pet Shop Boys. Still, a lot of albums from
       | GR surpass Helloween. Yes, even the Keeper one.
        
         | aerhardt wrote:
         | Not my favorite band by a stretch, but Gamma Ray is 100% power
         | metal, and nothing in it reminds me remotely of Pet Shop
         | Boys... If anything, it's the unshakeable Helloween influence
         | that brings the melodic happy metal vibes.
        
           | kriberg wrote:
           | That's just the Kai Hansen doing his thing. He's also been
           | quite active as a producer.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | Yes and no. The first records are a genius mix blending power
           | metal and synth like rhythms.
           | 
           | I think there's a noticeable difference from the block of
           | 'Heading for Tomorrow' until 'Insanity...' and 'The Land of
           | the Free'.
           | 
           | Then there's a pure power metal band.
        
       | aerhardt wrote:
       | Only in Hacker News would I find a post about data science and
       | power metal. Geeky af, but rad!
        
         | hypercube33 wrote:
         | I think it's mutually inclusive since the interests are shared
         | by some - I've found a bunch of business intelligence nerds at
         | metal festivals running stats on everything they can get data
         | for.
         | 
         | For example the metal cruise festival I go on has a group that
         | made their own bands on board tracking app and they release
         | stats on who wants to see what bands and if people marked later
         | that they enjoyed it, etc.
        
         | tekla wrote:
         | Have you literally never been on a metal forum?
        
           | aerhardt wrote:
           | > Have you literally never been on a metal forum?
           | 
           | Is it common to talk about data science in metal forums?
        
             | Semaphor wrote:
             | FWIW, I posted this on a pretty active metal discord, and
             | only one person found it interesting.
        
       | wodenokoto wrote:
       | Article says source code to be released. Since it is from 2018, I
       | assume it already has been released. Anyone have a link?
        
         | toastedwedge wrote:
         | I couldn't find it, either. I looked around their Github and
         | Twitter going back to 2018.
         | 
         | I would wager it was a case of life getting busy,
         | unfortunately, as happens to us all.
        
       | scop wrote:
       | I only recently discovered Blind Guardian. Typically listened to
       | thrash, rarely power metal. Man, what excellence. Brilliant
       | vocals, great choruses, distinct and unique sense of melody both
       | on guitar and vocals. Something I really love about them is that
       | vocals, guitars, and drums all have very prominent and distinct
       | parts. In many bands I feel like one instrument will often
       | dominate and the band becomes boring. I.e. great vocals, no
       | guitar solos or great guitar but could care less for vocals. When
       | I started listening to Blind Guardian and heard a chorus for the
       | first time, I thought "Dang that was awesome, but I bet the
       | guitar solo will suck or not exist"...and MAN was I wrong.
       | Brilliant vocals _and_ brilliant guitar work. And then that
       | drumming is just always _going_. My life is 2% better for having
       | found them.
        
         | ykonstant wrote:
         | Blind Guardian carried me through high school on the backs of
         | dragons.
        
           | scop wrote:
           | Goosebumps reading that. On the back of dragons!
        
         | NamTaf wrote:
         | In fairness, early BG very much aligns more with speed metal,
         | which is a fairly close sibling to thrash. It was that vector
         | that got me into them more than my latter appreciation for
         | power metal in all its bombastic soaring-vocal glory.
        
           | powermetal wrote:
           | European/german power metal bands tend to be more speed metal
           | based. American power metal retained closeness to heavy metal
           | more. I would recommend him to try out bands like Helstar and
           | Jag Panzer next.
        
           | scop wrote:
           | Good point. Hearing that low E quickly chug gave me a known
           | point of familiarity that allowed me to explore with
           | enjoyment.
        
         | taneq wrote:
         | Hah, wow, I went through a massive Blind Guardian phase. Love
         | their stuff.
        
         | mikub wrote:
         | I still consider "Nightfall in middle earth" one of the best
         | albums of all times. I remember waiting in front of the
         | recordstore on the releasday in 1998, came home and listened to
         | it from start to finish a few times while reading the newest
         | "Rock Hard" magazine, good times. Even today it's one of the
         | few albums I still enjoy listening from start to finish.
        
           | mynegation wrote:
           | The start of "Into the storm" after Morgoth says "She, the
           | mistress of her own lust" on a spoken intro track gives me
           | the shivers to this day and I still consider it the best
           | banging start of the album I have ever heard.
        
             | scop wrote:
             | "Into the Storm" is just brilliant. Punching intro, vocals
             | come in for a little "soft" intro themselves, and then
             | vocals go _hard_ ("where can I run") and we're off to the
             | races. I'm typically a guitar guy, but man I really enjoy
             | Hansi's talents to compose vocals...mixing moods, styles,
             | speed, all in the span of a few verses. Reminds me of "Time
             | Stands Still". That second verse comes in real self-
             | reflective and interior like ("I stand alone") and then
             | BOOM "I dare you!!!".
        
           | senderista wrote:
           | I discovered that album in 1999 (via Hansi's "Demons and
           | Wizards" project with Iced Earth), and it's one of the few
           | metal albums I still listen to regularly 25 years later. (It
           | really helps if you've read some of the Silmarillion, of
           | course.) Hard to pick a favorite track since it's so
           | consistently excellent, but maybe "The Curse of Feanor" gets
           | the most play.
           | 
           | Also, attending a BG concert at the old Graceland in Seattle
           | back in 2004 or so and singing along to "The Bard's Song"
           | with a few hundred other fans who knew all the words was
           | definitely a peak geek moment.
        
           | qiller wrote:
           | I definitely consider NIME to be best BG album. They tried to
           | replicate the same level of complexity in their follow up
           | albums, but the sound engineering and mixing just never felt
           | the same. NIME sounds crisp and clear and every after is too
           | layered and muddy
        
         | hypercube33 wrote:
         | One thing that's changed my metal taste is going to metal
         | festivals that mish mash everything together and making an
         | effort to just go see bands who I have no idea about even if I
         | listen to their music and am unsure about liking it.
         | 
         | One of my favorite things about metal is how diverse it is and
         | sometimes it just gets silly even if it appears absolutely
         | serious - I think seeing the bands when they are having the
         | most fun let's them try things you won't see in their music or
         | videos or even on a regular tour.
         | 
         | In case anyone is into video games and power metal and lives
         | somewhere near Madison WI there is a festival called Mad With
         | Power my wife found last year that falls into the bucket of how
         | is this even a thing but it's a joy to experience.
         | 
         | There are also a few metal cruises I've been on that are
         | absolutely not what you'd expect and are mostly people hugging
         | everyone and have things like cupcake decorating classes.
        
           | ethbr1 wrote:
           | If you ever get a chance, I'd recommend seeing either of the
           | Trans-Siberian Orchestra touring bands. Their show is a
           | pretty spectacular mishmash of everything... and Christmas.
           | 
           | Sadly, Vitalij Kuprij just passed. :/
           | 
           | https://www.nme.com/en_au/news/music/trans-siberian-
           | orchestr...
        
           | Slartie wrote:
           | > There are also a few metal cruises I've been on that are
           | absolutely not what you'd expect and are mostly people
           | hugging everyone and have things like cupcake decorating
           | classes.
           | 
           | What cruises are you talking about? I've been on seven
           | iterations of the US-based 70kTons cruise, which AFAIK is the
           | oldest and biggest metal cruise. And while people there are
           | generally very friendly and awesome, I've never seen cupcake
           | decorating classes. Instead, people were discussing drum
           | techniques, beer and whisky, metal music and
           | concerts...pretty much exactly what you'd expect on such an
           | event. The most exquisite topics were probably politics and
           | costumes (there's sort of an unofficial costume contest on
           | the last day of that cruise).
        
         | aerhardt wrote:
         | Here in Spain they were arguably the biggest power metal band
         | ever. Shirts with their art were very common - a tier below
         | Maiden shirts, but putting up a respectable fight in
         | popularity. They also filled some of the best venues - not
         | stadiums, but the tier right below, the premium venues, which I
         | think is a great achievement for such a niche genre.
         | 
         | When I was a kid I loved some of their classics like Mirror
         | Mirror, but I wasn't as much into them as some of my entourage,
         | as I preferred other styles of vocals. Recently however I've
         | come to appreciate them again because Spotify suggested "Sacred
         | Worlds" from the album Edge of Time. I love fully orchestrated
         | metal - Metallica's S&M with the San Fran Symphonic or
         | Nightwish's Once with the London Philarmonic - and "Sacred
         | Worlds" is an absolute banger within this rare subgenre.
        
           | hn_go_brrrrr wrote:
           | Scorpions with the Berlin Phil is also fabulous.
        
             | aerhardt wrote:
             | Thanks for the recommendation, I knew they had done that
             | but had never listened to it. Love me some Scorpions and of
             | course Berlin Philarmoniker is cream of the crop.
        
           | senderista wrote:
           | It's funny, "Mirror Mirror" is the biggest hit from NIME but
           | it's my least favorite track on the album. I'm not a huge fan
           | overall of ANATO but "Precious Jerusalem" might be their most
           | epic chorus ever.
        
             | aerhardt wrote:
             | I had forgotten about that one - it was actually my
             | favorite cut too. The chorus is indeed a banger - extremely
             | creative. I think Mirror Mirror was the more popular track
             | because it had an anthem quality to it. Easier to sing with
             | your friends at a bar or a concert, while Precious
             | Jerusalem is pretty much progressive metal.
        
             | dalmo3 wrote:
             | Oh the little bridge before the chorus is even more
             | majestic, gives me goosebumps every time.
             | 
             | I used to "hate" ANATO for a long time but now it's easily
             | my favourite from them and every time I listen to it it
             | gets better. It's one of a handful of albums that to this
             | day I can sit down and do nothing but listen to the music.
             | No multitasking. (Though I guess trying to pick out each
             | vocal track _is_ a very multitasking activity).
        
           | ponector wrote:
           | Powerwolf is another great band with orchestrated metal
           | albums.
        
           | scop wrote:
           | Love S&M 1&2, "All Within My Hands" being maybe my favorite
           | from the two albums.
           | 
           | One thing of note: I essentially only listen to metal and
           | classical. Everything else is dead boring to me. -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
         | Helmut10001 wrote:
         | Blind Guardian is well known in Europe, but very little
         | overseas. I went to a concert once and the mood was really
         | good. The crowd sang for themselves for half an hour. The band
         | was going for 3 hours altogether. Everyone was friendly
         | (nothing else I expected with power metal).
        
           | a_gnostic wrote:
           | > but very little overseas
           | 
           | Except in Japan (1).
           | 
           | 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwPlMB_dAo8
        
             | mlinhares wrote:
             | And all of South America. They could do a concert in almost
             | any big city in Brazil and fill up the place. And also not
             | sing, as people would sing every single song for them.
        
               | mlinhares wrote:
               | A Blind Guardian concert in Latin America might have been
               | the closest thing I've ever had to a religious
               | experience, now that I think about it.
        
             | Klonoar wrote:
             | Japan and Metal have a unique relationship at this point.
        
               | scop wrote:
               | I don't know much about it, other than knowing some of my
               | favorite bands have huge followings there. Can anybody
               | educate me how the Japanese metal scene functions? Are
               | there certain genres that have a hold or is it totally
               | diverse?
        
         | znpy wrote:
         | Had a very similar feel when I discovered Domine as a
         | teenager... the temes are also very varied. You can see what
         | the band was reading (in terms of fantasy novels) through the
         | years :)
        
         | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
         | If you like thrash and great vocals, check out Forbidden if you
         | haven't. Late 80s early 90s technical thrash whose singer has
         | some wild range. Twisted Into Form is their best album IMO.
         | Their reunion album Omega Wave is also excellent.
        
         | nihilius wrote:
         | Take a look at
         | https://www.last.fm/de/music/Demons+&+Wizards/Touched+by+the...
         | and https://www.last.fm/de/music/Savage+Circus/Dreamland+Manor
         | On mobile right now but I think these are second bands from
         | blind guardians lead singer and guitarist. Maybe take a look at
         | the Wikipedia page. I don't know wo exactly right now. It's a
         | while ago i listend to them. But it was great at the time.
        
         | Tornhoof wrote:
         | A thread about Blind Guardian and there is no obligatory link
         | to a crowd singing The Bard's Song?
         | 
         | Let me remedy this https://youtu.be/i-IcX_bccFc
        
       | 082349872349872 wrote:
       | So is there anyone else doing concept albums like Nightwish'
       | "Endless Forms Most Beautiful"?
        
         | tmoravec wrote:
         | Many of the bands. Sticking to power metal and just from the
         | top of my head: Rhapsody of Fire and related bands, Avantasia,
         | Blind Guardian, Sabaton, Kamelot, Iced Earth, Gloryhammer,
         | Ayreon and related bands (not quite power metal but the overlap
         | in audience is large I believe)...
         | 
         | I would even guess that in this genre, more albums are concept
         | than not.
        
       | agubelu wrote:
       | I'd like to use this thread to spread the word of our lord and
       | savior Powerwolf. I discovered them just over two years ago and
       | they immediately became my favorite band: their mix of themes,
       | aesthetic and impressive vocals are amazing. Plus they're a ton
       | of fun live and sound just as good :)
        
         | tmtvl wrote:
         | I dunno, I got one of their albums on Google Play Music (before
         | Google killed it) and it just didn't grab me the way Hammerfall
         | or Grand Magus did. The album I picked up is 'Blessed And
         | Possessed', so I dunno, maybe I just picked up their
         | 'Demolition', to make a Judas Priest parallel.
         | 
         | Which of their albums would you recommend to start with?
        
           | hn_go_brrrrr wrote:
           | I really enjoy _Blessed and Possessed_ , so I don't think
           | your analogy holds, unfortunately. If you want to give them
           | another try, _Sacrament of Sin_ is worth a listen.
        
           | generationP wrote:
           | _The Sacrament of Sin_ is their best; almost every song on
           | that one is great. It 's one of the rare examples of a band
           | that was boring and bland at first and then greatly improved.
           | _Call of the Wild_ is a close second. On their other albums I
           | like 1-2 tracks each.
        
       | fallinditch wrote:
       | For those who like metal and are open to more experimental and
       | avant garde, progressive styles I highly recommend the 2023
       | albums by Thantifaxath and Blut Aus Nord. But the best metal
       | album of 2023 (surely! IMHO) is Terrasite by Cattle Decapitation.
       | These bands are producing complex, esoteric, heavy music, no
       | dragons.
        
         | LesZedCB wrote:
         | terrasite is a phenomenal nomination for AotY 2023.
        
       | awaythrow999 wrote:
       | You can't kill the Metal -- TenaciousD
        
       | aerhardt wrote:
       | I've commented on a lot of tangential topics in this thread, but
       | regarding the article, I find the clustering really impressive. I
       | know _a lot_ of these bands and going by feel I broadly agree
       | with a lot of the groupings. Perhaps it 's not exhaustive or
       | perfect, for example I would intuit Blind Guardian to be much
       | closer to Demons & Wizards, because both of those bands share
       | lyricists and themes, but the analysis otherwise nails many of
       | the tuples. For example, Helloween - Gamma Ray - Masterplan or
       | Edguy - Avantasia, where both groupings' bands shared lyricists.
       | I also agree with other not-so-obvious groupings like Kamelot -
       | Angra - Stratovarius or Falconer - Dream Evil - Hammerfall -
       | Nocturnal Rites.
       | 
       | Kudos to the author!
        
       | RajT88 wrote:
       | Big metal fan here, as are some of my friends.
       | 
       | The Power Metal genre is less popular here in the US for sure.
       | For example as great as the playing is for bands like Rhapsody my
       | friends and I always found them too silly to get into.
       | 
       | Some other bands make the cut of course. But why this resistence
       | to the genre in general?
       | 
       | My working theory is one of culture: Songs about dragons and shit
       | probably resonate a lot better if you grew up in a places filled
       | with castles and shit. That is simply not the US and very much is
       | Europe.
        
         | coffeebeqn wrote:
         | Good question - especially since everything else in that realm
         | is quite popular in the US. D&D, lord of the rings etc. Maybe
         | it's considered more cheesy here? I remember thinking it was
         | kind of cheesy growing up in Europe and listening to various
         | types of metal
        
         | a_gnostic wrote:
         | Tennessee, Texas, Minnesota, and California have castles. They
         | pop up all over the U.S. if you look hard enough. Some of them
         | are fassades, and some of them are 100% legit imported organic
         | homegrown European.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | There was one where I used to live:
           | 
           | https://historicelgin.com/pratts-castle
           | 
           | It was largely unknown in town. Contrast with trips I have
           | taken to Europe (yes even work trips) where randomly I would
           | come across a castle. For example in Swansea near the train
           | station there was a castle a couple blocks from a TGI
           | Friday's. It is different over there!
        
           | gs17 wrote:
           | https://castlesy.com/ has a big list of "castles" in the US.
        
         | powermetal wrote:
         | Its nothing to do with the USA. Older metal genres are in
         | general quite niche today. Death metal and black metal is
         | ubiquitous everywhere. Power metal and speed metal are
         | relatively obscure these days.
        
         | Slartie wrote:
         | A friend from the US I got to know on a US-based metal cruise
         | (I'm German myself) told me that US metal concerts and European
         | concerts are quite different: there's a lot of clapping,
         | hopping and similar engagement routines in European concerts,
         | while US concerts, at least according to him, apparently are
         | more static, with maybe some fist pumping, but otherwise mostly
         | people with crossed arms looking serious.
         | 
         | If that's true, there might indeed be a cultural difference in
         | the breadth of metal fans from the US and Europe, which might
         | as well lead to the more "happy" metal styles like power metal
         | be more favored in Europe.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | That seems fair. Unless the band has really worked the crowd
           | up, which then you might get mosh pits and crowd surfing. I
           | saw Haken last night, and it was as you said, bunch of people
           | standing around (granted the venue was an old movie theater,
           | so it's not like you could move around much with the seats in
           | the way). Meshuggah a couple years back was pretty similar.
           | 
           | Bands like GWAR never disappoint, though. Some bands back in
           | the day which were like that as well: Pantera, System of a
           | Down, Metallica (pre-black album). In Flames recently had a
           | decent mosh pit going on when I saw them.
        
         | arrakeen wrote:
         | > My working theory is one of culture...
         | 
         | my theory is that because most of the bands are writing lyrics
         | in english and it's not their native language, they don't quite
         | grasp just HOW ridiculous their lyrics tend to be.
         | 
         | please don't take this as a negative, because to me it's a
         | positive. they sing those ridiculous lyrics with full passion
         | without a hint of irony-- and that's why i love them. american
         | power metal is a bit too wink-wink-nudge-nudge-amirite-guys?
        
       | generationP wrote:
       | > For people who might not know, Rhapsody of Fire broke into in
       | two bands, one keeping the original name and the other becoming
       | Rhapsody.
       | 
       | Ehm, this is not what happened. In 2006 Rhapsody became Rhapsody
       | of Fire to avoid some trademark dispute. Then they split around
       | 2009, though the main chunk is still called Rhapsody of Fire
       | whereas the spinoff is called Luca Turilli's Rhapsody.
        
         | Bahamut wrote:
         | The trademark dispute was with the Rhapsody streaming service -
         | I don't think it was ever announced, but I suspect the
         | streaming service paid them money to change their name since
         | the band definitely came first.
        
           | mongrelion wrote:
           | I remember when this happened.
           | 
           | I tried googling a bit but I couldn't find quickly enough an
           | article that mentions Rhapsody, the streaming service, as the
           | other party in the trademark dispute.
           | 
           | However, I do remember the whole thing when it happened
           | because I had just discovered the band.
           | 
           | Feels like ages ago
        
       | max_sendfeld wrote:
       | Similar post in this context: Symphonic Metal Bands: Nerdiness vs
       | Kickassery -- A statistical analysis
       | 
       | https://medium.com/@WolframHempel_82303/symphonic-metal-band...
        
       | at_a_remove wrote:
       | I have to say, despite my closest approach to power metal being
       | doom/stoner rock, I am very much enjoying everyone geeking out on
       | their preferred niche genre. No matter where you look, there's
       | history to learn and jargon to master.
        
       | chipuni wrote:
       | Yes. Yes, it is really about dragons.
        
       | golergka wrote:
       | I know that unique word count is not a perfect way to measure
       | "sophistication" of the lyrics, but I still find it funny that
       | the "best" metal band has less than a half of Aesop Rock's
       | vocabulary given how some metal fans look down on hip-hop.
       | (That's not an attack on them, I'm a huge fan of both).
        
       | yumraj wrote:
       | Not Power Metal, but I thought I'll take my chances.
       | 
       | Any recommendations for someone who loves _Rammstein_ , despite
       | only knowing 2-3 words in German?
       | 
       | I haven't found many while searching for industrial metal.
        
         | dmsayer wrote:
         | static-x, especially the older stuff.
        
       | crtified wrote:
       | People not familiar with metal music may find it interesting to
       | learn that actor Sir Christopher Lee - or, Lord of the Rings's
       | "Saruman" - was an active part of the power metal scene in the
       | later stages of his life.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lee#Music_career
        
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