[HN Gopher] An Introduction to the Theory and Practice of Poker ...
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       An Introduction to the Theory and Practice of Poker (2020)
        
       Author : Igor_Wiwi
       Score  : 46 points
       Date   : 2024-02-21 21:08 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hopkinspokercourse.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hopkinspokercourse.com)
        
       | JohnMakin wrote:
       | Cool idea. I was a professional poker player off/on during my
       | life and came of age during the Sklansky "Theory of Poker" days,
       | which I was pleased to see on the reading list. However, much/all
       | of the reading recs and I imagine some of the theory taught (only
       | skimmed the lectures) is considered very outdated nowadays in the
       | semi-pro and professional scene.
       | 
       | Today, much of poker theory is driven by analyzers that are
       | supposed to implement a practice called "GTO" (game theory
       | optimal). There have been a lot of interesting findings in the
       | last ~5 years that have come from these that I would be surprised
       | to see in a course like this.
       | 
       | To bring someone from completely n00b level to "okay", this
       | course is probably fine.
        
         | alexb_ wrote:
         | > Today, much of poker theory is driven by analyzers that are
         | supposed to implement a practice called "GTO" (game theory
         | optimal). There have been a lot of interesting findings in the
         | last ~5 years that have come from these that I would be
         | surprised to see in a course like this.
         | 
         | Where can one learn about these? Resources on fast moving areas
         | like this is super hard to find if you're not "in the know"
         | already.
        
           | JohnMakin wrote:
           | IME mostly in poker forums like twoplustwo.com or reddit or
           | behind training site paywalls, but there are also a lot of
           | bad/minsinformed opinions out there
        
           | jvans wrote:
           | A lot of it happens in closed discussions with pros who are
           | running various simulations. Some of it is posted on training
           | sites but a lot is not.
           | 
           | The game these days is all about reverse engineering strategy
           | principles from GTO simulation output. E.g. what general
           | principle causes the solver output to say raise 30% in this
           | spot vs raise 80%? If you come up with a coherent story, you
           | can apply that thought process to new situations. It's a
           | totally different game than it was a decade ago
           | 
           | Here is one of the solvers if you are interested:
           | https://piosolver.myshopify.com/
           | 
           | Fwiw there is a significant amount of skill involved in
           | choosing how to run simulations. I think they have some intro
           | videos to help you
        
             | JohnMakin wrote:
             | > Fwiw there is a significant amount of skill involved in
             | choosing how to run simulations
             | 
             | and sometimes a pretty significant amount of memory - these
             | applications use massive amounts of it
        
         | natdempk wrote:
         | What would you recommend to bring someone from noob to semi-pro
         | as quickly as possible?
        
           | JohnMakin wrote:
           | There's lots of training sites and a lot of opinions about
           | the best one/way to do this, but I think doug polk's website
           | upswing poker caters to a broad range of skill levels and is
           | the one I'd personally recommend (warning though the site
           | itself is awfully designed). Nothing is really free out there
           | I'm aware of unless you spend a lot of time discussing things
           | in poker forums, which I wouldn't personally recommend.
        
           | kqr wrote:
           | I'm not semi-pro but I would expect spending hours with GTO
           | solvers and other poker training software will play a large
           | part in it. The idea is to get quick feedback on how well you
           | are judging difficult situations.
           | 
           | Some people also have to spend a lot of time working on
           | emotional regulation to avoid throwing good money after bad.
        
           | thatguysaguy wrote:
           | I have a friend who's self-studied up to a pretty good hourly
           | rate within ~2 years. The main thing he does is tons and tons
           | of time studying solver outputs.
        
             | ProllyInfamous wrote:
             | >The main thing he does is tons and tons of time...
             | 
             | I was gonna'say "patience," but your response is better.
        
             | pests wrote:
             | Yeah, this is it.
             | 
             | I was a complete blackjack noob until a few months ago when
             | I got interested in my states online casinos, specifically
             | blackjack.
             | 
             | I would check literally every position (even obvious ones)
             | to see the expected value for each decision and quite
             | quickly built up an intuition when I was playing without
             | the aid (the live dealer games sometimes move too fast to
             | input and get results back in time).
             | 
             | Now its like second nature and only in rare situations do I
             | double check my judgement.
        
           | brettv2 wrote:
           | noob to "semi pro" isn't the jump you are looking for. To get
           | to a level even remotely close to 'semi pro' would require
           | thousands of hours of playtime.
           | 
           | you just need to grasp the basics.
           | 
           | Phil Gordon's Little Green Book and The Theory of Poker
           | (Sklansky) are common recommendations.
        
           | antisthenes wrote:
           | Learn pre-flop play. It's the foundation to everything else.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | I'm going to answer a different question than the one you
           | asked:
           | 
           | As a noob, what's the quickest way to become better than
           | breakeven, then better than breakeven including the rake/seat
           | charge?
           | 
           | Find a way to play against the worst players you can find.
           | There are likely some tough games near you; avoid those. They
           | might be some soft games; play in those.
           | 
           | Game selection and exploiting opponent weaknesses can easily
           | turn a player with a grasp of the basics into a winning
           | player.
        
             | galaxyLogic wrote:
             | Isn't it much about "poker-face" including knowing your
             | opponents?
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | Poker face doesn't matter if you play against players who
               | are only looking at their cards (inc community cards). ;)
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | With a big caveat that GTO is only an optimal strategy against
         | other players who are trying to play optimally.
         | 
         | If you have a table full of clowns who are playing a range of
         | strategies (ranging from being spiteful to just all-ining every
         | hand, to barely knowing how to play poker), you will very
         | quickly go broke with GTO, because you didn't adjust.
        
           | highfrequency wrote:
           | This is wrong. If a strategy is actually GTO, then it is
           | unexploitable. Meaning that if you're playing GTO poker
           | against a super loose player, you may not be maximally
           | exploiting _them_ , but you should certainly not be losing
           | money (in expectation). See Nash Equilibrium
        
             | skulk wrote:
             | This is also wrong. Unexploitable strategies can still be
             | -EV. This video does a good job of breaking it down:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfuXD0YADIM
        
       | galaxyLogic wrote:
       | I'm not even familiar with the rules but I wonder: If AI can win
       | in Chess and Go should it not win in Poker too? And when you have
       | online poker, it should be possible to ask the AI on your laptop
       | to play it for you? Is that what online Poker players do?
        
         | rrr_oh_man wrote:
         | Yes, yes, and: yes.
        
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