[HN Gopher] Stop postponing things by embracing the mess
___________________________________________________________________
Stop postponing things by embracing the mess
Author : vitabenes
Score : 276 points
Date : 2024-02-21 09:31 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.deprocrastination.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.deprocrastination.co)
| loneranger_11x wrote:
| Spot on argument.
|
| Especially valuable piece of advice is to find 25-30 minutes of
| uninterrupted time and aim to knock out one small task. Even if
| you didn't finish it, note down progress and next steps. Go at it
| again in the next slot.
|
| Taking notes will both help you track progress and give you a
| sense of movement. It will also make sure that you can easily
| regain context in the next attempt.
| bru3s wrote:
| I agree wholeheartedly. I've been stuck in a rut of
| procrastination for the last several years, during which I
| hardly ever _started_ side projects or experiments due to tired
| old excuses such as "I simply don't have enough time", "This
| would at least need x hours per day", etc.
|
| When I eventually tried to start something, it would inevitably
| be delayed by other daily things to carry out (work, family,
| other life related stuff), so not taking notes would always
| result in "" have no idea what I was aiming for last time".
|
| Add to that a fairly (un)healthy dose of perfectionism coming
| from working in the same field, and you have a recipe for years
| wasted on complete inactivity.
|
| Another fiend of this kind, friendly to procrastination, is the
| inability to decide what to actually work on, especially when
| you have a lot of interests. Then the question becomes "I have
| hours available to work on something, but I cannot pull the
| trigger on any of those things that interest me", so back again
| to square 1 with year wasted on indecisiveness with nothing to
| show for it.
| thoughtFrame wrote:
| For both of your cases, the "25 to 30 minutes task" trick
| won't work at all. For a case that persists for years, what
| I've learned is that it's either real ADHD, or some emotional
| problem around the topic. For me, it was 100% an emotional
| problem, though I do have a bit of a scattered mind, but I
| can focus it, whereas I've seen people with serious ADHD who
| can't do it at all and need meds (among other things).
|
| For example, having many interests is fine, but when it comes
| to choice, what keeps you stuck can be something like a
| complete fear of regretting the choice. Words like lazyness
| or perfectionism are usually the sheep's clothing that the
| wolf (emotion) is wearing. How can some organizational trick
| from a blog post help here?
|
| I've read lots of self-help books (among other things) when I
| faced these issues a few years ago, and there's a curious
| commonality: it's all small tricks developed for the author's
| personal experience. But what I've noticed is that there are
| two kinds of people in these situations: the ones who don't a
| solution and get out of the problem (which is the group that
| happens to include most of those authors), and the ones who
| stay stuck looking for an answer, a quick solution, a trick
| to escape. The first type can get out by using something like
| the GTD book. That means their problem really was that they
| lacked some crucial bit of organizational knowledge to unlock
| their path towards whatever they want to do.
|
| But the latter type (the ones who're stuck in the cycle) need
| to _let something go_ rather than accumulate new things (in
| this case, tips and tricks about Getting Things Done).
|
| There's the DIY path (hard, involves journaling,
| introspection, noticing and categorizing your emotions,
| reading Jung, reading ancient texts like the Bhagavad Gita)
| and the psychologist path (you need to find a good
| paychologist who doesn't just ask "and what do you feel about
| it?" over and over but actually takes an active role in your
| situation and your circumstances)
| bru3s wrote:
| > For both of your cases, the "25 to 30 minutes task" trick
| won't work at all. For a case that persists for years, what
| I've learned is that it's either real ADHD, or some
| emotional problem around the topic. For me, it was 100% an
| emotional problem, though I do have a bit of a scattered
| mind, but I can focus it, whereas I've seen people with
| serious ADHD who can't do it at all and need meds (among
| other things).
|
| I'm not so sure about that. Mind you, I had already been
| thinking that putting some effort in limited amount of time
| instead of doing nothing at all before reading the article,
| so if anything the latter gave me some more confidence that
| it's actually a solution that at least worked _for someone_
|
| > But the latter type (the ones who're stuck in the cycle)
| need to let something go rather than accumulate new things
| (in this case, tips and tricks about Getting Things Done).
| On that front, I thing you're perfectly right.
|
| > There's the DIY path (hard, involves journaling,
| introspection, noticing and categorizing your emotions,
| reading Jung, reading ancient texts like the Bhagavad Gita)
| and the psychologist path (you need to find a good
| paychologist who doesn't just ask "and what do you feel
| about it?" over and over but actually takes an active role
| in your situation and your circumstances)
|
| Admittedly I don't feel 100% sure that what you just wrote
| doesn't apply to me, so would you mind expanding a bit more
| on the details? Why would procrastination in a case like
| mine be linked to emotional issue? Actually even better,
| was it that for you? In which way did this link exist, and
| how did you find out? How did you managed to solve it, if
| you solved it at all?
|
| Thanks for replying
| thoughtFrame wrote:
| (there's a typo in my post: "the ones who don't a
| solution and get out of the problem" ought to be "the
| ones who find a solution and get out of the problem")
|
| > I'm not so sure about that. Mind you, I had already
| been thinking that putting some effort in limited amount
| of time instead of doing nothing at all before reading
| the article, so if anything the latter gave me some more
| confidence that it's actually a solution that at least
| worked for someone
|
| Yes, absolutely, but for the kind of people I'm talking
| about, it's like telling an overweight person to "just go
| to the gym, bro". It works, yeah, but there's some who do
| buckle up and go to the gym, and there's others who stay
| stuck in a cycle and don't take any steps out even
| thought from the outside, what they have to do is obvious
| (for example, some cope with stress or anxiety by eating.
| How can they become healthier without tackling the root
| of the issue, which is the source of the stress/anxiety?
| This is what I mean by things having emotional causes)
| For ADHD, you needn't look too far. There's a top comment
| in this thread about someone who spent 40 years with
| these issues until they got actual help. Once the root is
| identified (diagnosed) then the difficulty in dealing
| with the problem goes down.
|
| ------------------
|
| > Actually even better, was it that for you?
|
| It's good that you ask this, because I don't know your
| situation. As for me, I basically tried to exhaust the
| possibilities by reading self help books, then moving
| into philosophy (mostly eastern) and then moving into
| psychology (via Jung's books, and Alok Kanojia's youtube
| videos). No tip or trick helped me, and intellectually, I
| knew what the right answer was all along (an equivalent
| of "just go to the gym"). But that still didn't translate
| to action, which surprised me. In the end, I was forced
| to leave my overly intellectual/rational view of the
| world, and delve into what Jung called Eros, a contrast
| of Logos. But don't be distracted by the name. Perhaps
| it's better to talk about "intelligence quotient" (IQ)
| and "emotional quotient" (EQ). My underdeveloped EQ was
| causing me quite a bit of problems, because I wasn't
| aware of my emotions, of what I was feeling, of why I
| moved towards some things and not towards others. EQ is
| related to motivation, among other things. That's where
| what I wrote in the DIY path comes in. It took me a year
| of work. And it taught me a very interesting meta-lesson:
| I noticed in hindsight the amount of effort that I had
| put into this problem. It made me feel so desperate that
| I spent hours and hours going through books, taking notes
| every day, and learning a lot. But for the areas that
| really mattered to me, I had been led away. The lesson is
| that the more intellectually important something is to
| me, the harder it becomes to deal with it. This can
| manifest as perfectionisn. For example, I don't care at
| all about how my books are arranged in my bookshelf. So I
| place them as they fit. But if I care a lot about
| organization, I may keep them in boxes for years while I
| fret over the best way to implement the Dewey system for
| my 1000+ books and also planning (but not writing!) an
| app to scan my books into a local database and so on.
| (What do I mean by "intellectually important"? It's
| whatever we aren't led to by our emotions yet still
| matters to us. When I was led by the emotion of despair,
| I studied ceaselessly to get rid of it. But when I think
| about wanting to do something without a strong emotion
| backing it, it's harder to jump into it without forcing
| yourself)
|
| So I care about a lot of things, and I care a lot. Also,
| I want to work on everything. So my inaction here was
| because I was scared of the possibility of letting go of
| the others if I dedicate myself to a few things, and
| truly focused on them, devoting my time and energy to
| that endeavour.
|
| That's what annoyed me when I saw others, who spent years
| on making their passion project (whether a game, a set of
| paintings, a program or a tool to help others, a web
| novel they self-published, or whatever else)... And I
| knew what I had to do. Do what they did but for what I
| care about, for my ideas that I feel so strongly about.
| And I wasn't doing it. It's fucking annoying, like trying
| to lift your hand (which you know works perfectly) but
| you can't.
|
| As for your case, only you can find out. The first link
| that therapists will try to find inside you is trauma,
| because that kind of stuff has far-reaching consequences
| on everything in your life, including motivation. But
| it's not always trauma, so don't think that there must
| have been something suppressed inside you or whatever.
|
| For example, I had a lot of problems from having been a
| "gifted kid", being treated like I'm super smart and
| whatnot. That pushed me away from hard work and from
| things that weren't immediately easy, and that a big root
| cause. But it wasn't a trauma of any kind - I had a
| normal childhood
|
| About my progress... I'm working on it and getting much
| better. I recently passed a big exam, and I'm honing some
| of my skills, putting in the hard work.
|
| Good luck on your path
| dboreham wrote:
| Try viewing this as "I'm so effective at doing things that
| other people want me to do way more things than I have time
| for".
| sanderjd wrote:
| Honestly, I really don't relate to this.
|
| I don't have tasks I can do in 25 or 30 minutes, except for the
| exact kind of "marking messages read" tasks that leave me
| feeling empty at the end of the day.
|
| > _Even if you didn 't finish it, note down progress and next
| steps. Go at it again in the next slot._
|
| For me, these notes would mostly be "spent 25 minutes
| rebuilding context, got pulled away" over and over again.
|
| I think there are some good techniques in this article. Taking
| notes is good.
|
| But I don't think embracing the chaos is the way to go, I think
| being a lot more proactive and firm about giving yourself the
| time you need to focus and do high quality work is the better
| approach.
|
| If every day is becoming a mess, start by figuring out how to
| fix that.
| LoganDark wrote:
| This is part of my issue, too. Not having no things to do in
| a short amount of time, but _knowing that I don 't have time,
| preventing me from starting_. A lot of people have the
| ability to just dive in regardless of how much time they
| foresee having. I don't. I need to have time in order to feel
| safe starting anything.
|
| In the hours preceding something like a doctor's appointment,
| I can't do anything. Anything I start will be interrupted by
| the appointment, so I can't even try.
| dboreham wrote:
| This is just how the brain works. People who claim they can
| do a hard focused task in 20 min chunks are faking it. The
| article is trying to say I think "don't worry about that,
| because on average you will have some uninterrupted
| stretches in which to do the hard task, but right now get
| some simple shit done because that needs done too".
| dboreham wrote:
| I didn't read it as embrace the chaos, rather to not fixate
| on the perfect non-chaotic day that's coming (it isn't).
| Instead adopt a "continuous improvement" stance where any
| little deviation from total chaos is a win. Iterate that
| process. Basically the same thing as continuous delivery:
| start delivering a crappy thing and progressively fix issues
| / add features until it's done.
| __natty__ wrote:
| I like to think about discipline in terms of habits, either built
| in a perfect environment or real and messy, as described in the
| article. The perfect ones are what we aim to achieve, but they
| are flimsy because once we are in a different environment, the
| habits disappear. The latter are much more prone to changes but
| harder to initialize.
| mingusrude wrote:
| This is the conclusion that I've come to as well after trying
| for way too long to find inspiration to those things that I
| either want to do (on some level) or need to do.
|
| Habits are things you do that don't have a big hurdle. For
| years I've been able to run without feeling that there's a
| great resistance in doing it (I don't normally identify as a
| runner). But picking up some work that I want to do but don't
| feel it's the right moment to do has been a lot harder. Lately
| I've had some progress with at just doing tasks because it's
| become a habit when I have some time over.
| hoc wrote:
| I also suggest to add a physical signal on your typical life
| accessories like phone or watch.
|
| E.g. swapping or adding a special colored case during productive
| time to remind you to return to focus on production when you tend
| to break into "day-dreaming".
|
| Does not make you start the day, but lets you keep going longer
| (ok, that might sound wrong, but let's keep it for its mnemonic
| value).
| corobo wrote:
| I have a little silicone thumb ring I use for this. No idea why
| I bought a handful of them in the first place but they're
| useful for this sort of thing!
|
| If I'm wearing it, there's still work stuff on my todo list
| that needs doing today.
|
| Brings me back to the PC rather than coming in from a walk and
| doing a bunch of housework I notice on the way in haha. Hard to
| miss being on my hand, almost anything I could do while
| procrastinating will make me see it :)
| aaron695 wrote:
| This site is bizarre.
|
| If you look at their stuff on addiction, they have no grounding
| in current theory. And by current theory, that's from science to
| religious ideas like prayer, nothing they talk about matches
| anything in the world from hard numbers to mysticism. They also
| have no explanation why they break with all the current theories
| or where their theories come from.
|
| By now they are a HN institution, but I'd be very wary following
| their advice if you medically depend on it working.
|
| deprocrastination.co is like a surreal movie, I think I like it,
| but I'm glad sites like these are not everywhere, like
| Scientology, fun because it's different. OP you should also
| create a new religion and run a site, you'd be good I think.
| That's not facetious-ism, but you'd have to be morally ok with
| it.
|
| [edit] As an example of what I'm saying related to this article -
| "Imperfect action > perfect nothing" has no real meaning. It's
| simplified to "action > nothing"
|
| What would be meaningful is "wrong action > perfect nothing" or
| "action > planning"
|
| But as you can see HN eats up stuff like "Imperfect action >
| perfect nothing" It's good writing.
| sanderjd wrote:
| I think you may be right about the rest, but I don't understand
| your last point. "Imperfect action > perfect nothing" is not
| meaningless and does not simplify to "action > nothing". It's
| just a different (not nearly as evocative, IMO) way to say
| "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". And I think this is
| indeed an important point that chronic procrastinators
| constantly struggle with.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| What do they say about addiction? They've got so many articles
| on it.
| detourdog wrote:
| There is also the idea that the common thing is more important
| than the extraordinary. Common everyday tasks should be higher
| priority than the extraordinary tasks.
| masto wrote:
| The oversimplification and promises that if you just buy their
| thing you'll have a distraction free life in 14 days really irks
| me.
|
| I struggled with this stuff for over 40 years. Only last year,
| after a disastrous crash, did I start learning about ADHD, which
| finally gave me the language and tools and access to support that
| I needed to start making a meaningful difference.
|
| Without the understanding that diagnosis gave me, I'd tried every
| productivity technique and app, and came up with my own ad hoc
| systems, but they didn't stick and just reinforced the cycle of
| seeing myself as someone who's just doomed to live the life of a
| chronic procrastinator, always stressed out and overwhelmed.
|
| A course like this would have done nothing but separate me from
| some money and give me a temporary feeling that I found the magic
| answer to everything, leading to disappointment and self hatred
| when I inevitably dropped it all.
|
| I only have a personal anecdote, but if it sounds familiar, maybe
| there's some advice buried in it.
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| With your diagnoses, what are you now doing that is helping
| you?
| dartos wrote:
| It may be a little weird, but the from us music from brain.fm
| really helps me.
|
| I've measured the work I get done over sprints where I listen
| to brain.fm and where I don't, and I usually get 2-3 more
| cards done of weeks that I do.
|
| Not a scientific measurement, but it is what it is.
| criddell wrote:
| I'm intrigued, but brain.fm requires a credit card for a
| free trial. Bummer.
|
| Edit: I just checked my email and (in the spam folder) was
| an email from them with a link that works for 3 days. I'm
| trying it now.
| dartos wrote:
| FWIW I've been using brainfm for about 8 years.
|
| Granted, I got my account with a lifetime subscription
| back when they were just spinning up, but I've used them
| pretty consistently since then.
| pc86 wrote:
| Not to excuse these dark patterns from shitty products
| that can't get revenue without tricking people, but
| privacy.com lets you set up single-use credit cards with
| e.g. a $1 lifetime limit. This is my go-to for places
| like this if I really, really want to try it.
| mp05 wrote:
| it's worth it, good product
| matteason wrote:
| You might enjoy the binaural beats and ambient radio on
| https://ambiph.one as a free alternative (disclosure:
| it's my site). Not as science-y as brain.fm but it helps
| me a lot with focus
| criddell wrote:
| Wow - nice work! Your site looks and works great. Thanks
| for sharing it.
| matteason wrote:
| Thanks, glad you like it! I'm all ears if you have any
| suggestions (here or there's a feedback form linked at
| the bottom)
| dingnuts wrote:
| I have ADHD (professionally diagnosed as an adult) and
| basically cannot focus without music. I complained at work
| about endpoint management software that was interfering
| with my music player and was told I didn't need to listen
| to music while working.
|
| I WFH so I just found another way to play music, but it was
| tempting to point out to my boss (who I otherwise quite
| like) that he had just told me that I shouldn't be using a
| reasonable accommodation for my disability that costs the
| company nothing, lol.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| > he had just told me that I shouldn't be using a
| reasonable accommodation for my disability that costs the
| company nothing
|
| To suffer from ADHD is to suffer alone.
|
| The world does not care for us and does not care about
| us. The world would rather attempt to hammer us screws in
| than try and use a drill.
| prometheus76 wrote:
| It's the classic situation of someone without ADHD telling us
| "just focus!" or "you just need to write things down!" or
| "you're just lazy".
|
| I have ADHD, and I also do not have a sense of smell (lost it
| in a TBI when I was a teenager). I tell people, "you take for
| granted what it's like to have a sense of smell. It affects
| every moment of your day, catching your interest and directing
| your attention all the time. Imagine not having a sense of
| smell. Imagine not smelling dinner or smelling your wife or
| smelling your baby. Imagine not smelling flowers or not
| smelling a gas leak. So much of what you take for granted comes
| from your sense of smell. Having ADHD is like that. You take
| executive function for granted, and can't imagine what it's
| like to not have that. When you say 'just write things down!'
| it's like saying 'just smell harder!'"
| darkwater wrote:
| I'm not a medical expert or anything but I guess there is a
| good chunk of population who just procrastinates or can
| struggle with focus without having ADHD? Or is there always a
| 1:1 relationship?
| pjc50 wrote:
| ADHD, like a lot of things relating to the brain, is not a
| binary condition; it's just the diagnosis that's binary.
| dartos wrote:
| It's likely that a lot more people have ADHD than we think,
| but I don't think everyone who procrastinates does so bc of
| ADHD
| adadadadadad wrote:
| If you read the diagnostic criteria that is used, it's so
| broad it could easily apply to most of the world's
| population...as long as they declare they have trouble
| focusing.
| corobo wrote:
| Many people probably do have the same brain wiring, or
| maybe it's a low level of background dopamine, or
| whatever it turns out to be once science figures it out.
|
| The reason most of the worlds population isn't
| diagnosed[0] is that second D: Disorder.
|
| No disorder, no problem, no diagnosis.
|
| [0] outside of lack of access to mental health resources,
| not knowing what they're looking for so never getting
| referred to a place to diagnose it, not believing in
| treating mental health issues, self-medicating, avoiding
| stigma, etc
| hirvi74 wrote:
| I liken it to forgetfulness in old age.
|
| A majority of elderly people see a decline in memory as
| they age. Not every elderly person who is forgetful
| necessarily has dementia.
| dartos wrote:
| Yeah it's hard to write specific criteria for some mental
| disorders.
|
| They're not all uniform in presentation or affect.
|
| It'd really be up to the therapist.
|
| Thankfully, it doesn't seem like most of the ADHD meds
| usually have long lasting adverse effects.
| projektfu wrote:
| I disagree. I think that 6 months or more of 5/9 symptoms
| of inattentiveness or 5/9 symptoms of hyperactivity,
| persistently, does not represent most of the world. (And
| excluding: "The symptoms are not solely a manifestation
| of oppositional behavior, defiance, hostility, or failure
| to understand tasks or instructions." 6/9 symptoms are
| required to diagnose children) [0]
|
| Indeed, surveys show that it's probably under 10% [1].
| Mind you, these are surveys of symptoms, not surveys of
| diagnoses.
|
| 0. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3
| .t3/
|
| 1. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullar
| ticle/...
| cloverich wrote:
| This is true about most diagnostic criteria, which is why
| medical students think they have all the illnesses before
| they get experience with people who actually have them.
| Its just very difficult to use words with sufficient
| precision to capture the bits that are, somehow, more
| obvious once experienced.
| snazz wrote:
| A lot of people (myself included) procrastinate on
| something because it's emotionally uncomfortable, without
| necessarily having ADHD. For example, when I was much
| younger, I'd procrastinate on math homework specifically,
| not because I struggled with focus, but because it was
| difficult to admit to myself that I didn't know how to do
| it and would need to practice. Subjects that came more
| naturally to me (English, science) didn't give me a "fear
| of failure" response in the same way.
| darkwater wrote:
| Yep, that's my experience as well. Or because it's just
| something I don't like to do that much or that doesn't
| give me some good hormone to my brain in exchange after
| doing it.
| WhitneyLand wrote:
| Makes perfect sense. Kind of interesting the opposite can
| bite too: Math came naturally to me, but after seeing
| some high standardized test scores adults paraded them
| around and made a big deal of it, so it became stressful
| to do without perfect outcomes. For my own kids I just
| refused to allow a lot of that stuff like IQ testing,
| etc.
| helboi4 wrote:
| How do you overcome this? I've avoided things due to
| emotional discomfort my whole life and I don't think I
| can ever do better at this point. I find that it requires
| conscious effort to learn to do things that are required
| as standard for most adults.
| snazz wrote:
| With math specifically I had a good teacher in high
| school who made us practice in class together. He'd get
| everyone to sit around a table and he'd give handheld
| whiteboards to every fourth or fifth person (depending on
| the number of basic steps in the problem), and then the
| person with the whiteboard would do the first step and
| pass it to the person on their right. That experience
| stuck with me because just forcing me to get started
| (with help available) was enough to quickly clear up
| anything I was avoiding getting started on at home.
|
| I still avoid doing things because they're emotionally
| uncomfortable occasionally, so I haven't really found a
| general solution. But it's gotten better over time and
| it's less of an issue when I'm more invested in
| something.
| prometheus76 wrote:
| I have found the advice in this Andrew Huberman video to
| be helpful. Long version: [1] Useful clip from that
| longer video: [2]
|
| TL;DR: motivation is a muscle that can be developed as
| long as your efforts to do so are voluntary. In other
| words, do the hardest thing that you can actually do,
| even if it is just pick up one piece of trash and put it
| in the garbage. Or wash one dish. The list of
| possibilities is endless. The idea is to face your
| discomfort, and as you do so repeatedly, your ability to
| do so increases.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OHYynw7Yh4 [2]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoutTY8XHSc
| StuffMaster wrote:
| +1 for Andrew Huberman
|
| Controlling Your Dopamine For Motivation, Focus &
| Satisfaction:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmOF0crdyRU
|
| ADHD & How Anyone Can Improve Their Focus:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFL6qRIJZ_Y
| equalsione wrote:
| Growing up, my parents didn't have encouragement or
| patience in their emotional toolkit. You were expected to
| do everything perfectly - homework, writing a letter, any
| kind of planning, even sweeping the floor or washing
| dishes - and if you struggled in any way you were berated
| at length.
|
| Many decades later even mundane things can be a battle -
| ringing a doctor to ask for an appointment, or a provider
| to query a bill, filling in forms and so on. Most of my
| procrastination stems from my experiences back them. It
| is easier in my mind to defer action than to risk the
| imagined verbal abuse. I'd imagine a fair share of non-
| ADHD related organisational issues can be traced to
| similar experiences.
|
| Just like you can't out-train a bad diet, you can't out-
| live a shitty childhood.
| haswell wrote:
| Really sorry you went through this. Your experience
| reminds me of mine, which left me to contend with a
| lifetime of challenges.
|
| > _Just like you can 't out-train a bad diet, you can't
| out-live a shitty childhood._
|
| I think I'd challenge this slightly. Out training a bad
| diet probably doesn't work, but is better than a bad diet
| with no training. And when you fix your diet, the
| training can start working wonders.
|
| My childhood left deep and unhealthy imprints, but I'm no
| longer in that environment. I think you _can_ out-live a
| shitty childhood, by changing your diet so to speak. This
| is grueling work, painful, slow, and often frustrating.
| But replacing old patterns can really transform living in
| the same way changing a bad diet can transform the
| process of training.
|
| Over time I've come to believe strongly that the only
| thing harder than dealing with the past is not dealing
| with it. And over time, this gradually transforms the
| present. I very much prefer the late 30s version of me to
| all of the preceding iterations.
|
| Best of luck on your own journey. Send me an email if you
| ever want to chat. (Not selling anything, just someone
| who cares about this topic a lot).
| StefanBatory wrote:
| That is something I share too, I had similar experience.
|
| Faced with hard task, I ended up not even trying -
| penalty for failure was the same as one for not doing
| something.
| T_MacThrowFace wrote:
| But with the upside that it is technically unknown
| whether or not you actually could have pulled it off if
| you tried, and if every once in a while you manage to
| perform the impossible, that covers for 100 failures.
|
| People who don't care about their children don't care
| about this, of course. You have failed them simply by
| being a child.
|
| "Why didn't you just have better parents you stupid
| little brat, didn't anybody teach you anything you
| absolute dumbass lazy #%!PS moron?"
|
| "I'm sorry, mom"
| LoganDark wrote:
| ADHD is a spectrum, so it can have different severities.
| Some people simply find it more difficult to function well
| whereas some people find it absolutely and utterly
| impossible.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| > ADHD is a spectrum
|
| When analyzing people what is not a spectrum? Every human
| attribute can be placed on a spectrum. Even other
| diseases, disorders, etc.. A broken bone can be a
| hairline crack or shattered into pieces.
| LoganDark wrote:
| Someone can have a mild form of ADHD without it being
| severe enough to cause executive dysfunction outright.
| That's what I mean by spectrum
| hirvi74 wrote:
| Ok, now I understand. The term I have always heard is
| "subclincial."
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| What spectrum means in this context is that it's a multi-
| dimensional problem- different levels of severity across
| a large number of different dimensions. Executive
| function is typically broken up into a large number of
| different functions, and people have different levels of
| each, so a person that functions well in one context
| might do poorly in another, and vice versa.
| LoganDark wrote:
| > What spectrum means in this context is that it's a
| multi-dimensional problem
|
| I used "spectrum" to mean that ADHD is not always severe
| enough to cause outright disability, but the underlying
| problems can still be present to a lower degree.
|
| The parent mentioned "procrastinates or can struggle with
| focus _without having ADHD_ " (emphasis mine) and I
| wanted to point out that some of those people may also
| have some very mild form of ADHD.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| I don't disagree with your point, but you are misusing
| the term and misunderstanding what it means when it is
| applied to neurodevelopmental disorders like autism and
| ADHD.
| LoganDark wrote:
| ADHD the diagnosis is a set of symptoms. These individual
| symptoms may be present to varying degrees in different
| people. The fact that it varies means that ADHD is a
| spectrum. That's not misuse or misunderstanding, and it
| agrees with your original comment. I'm simply clarifying
| what I meant because it's not just "everyone has
| different specialties". It's that specific problems that
| can contribute to ADHD can be present in people even if
| they don't have the entirety of ADHD. There is no genetic
| boolean that decides if one will have ADHD or not.
|
| While, sure, everyone _does_ have different specialties,
| they could _also_ have some traces of ADHD that aren 't
| severe enough to give them all the symptoms but still
| manage to hurt their performance in certain areas.
|
| Also, I said nothing of autism. Please don't extrapolate
| T_MacThrowFace wrote:
| Aren't you guys talking about an academic and somewhat
| theoretical definition of the term "spectrum"?
|
| In reality, it means
|
| "But doctor, how can you attach this very serious and
| stigmatizing diagnosis to my child while skipping half
| the tests in the official criteria and fudging the
| numbers to reach some threshold number?"
|
| "Oh don't worry, it's a spectrum, you see"
|
| ...
|
| "But doctor, what you just entered into my medical
| records is not what I told you at all, how can you be
| sure you're making the correct diagnosis if you're not
| really listening to what I'm saying, and when you're
| completely misrepresenting my situation?"
|
| "Well, it's a spectrum you see"
| LoganDark wrote:
| I'm using "spectrum" to mean that mild and severe cases
| of ADHD exist, as well as everything in between.
|
| For example, ADHD controls my life and I was never
| diagnosed with it until I figured out the symptoms
| myself, because nobody could ever see me struggling with
| it - there is no fighting it for me. However for some
| others, their ADHD is trivially controllable via medicine
| or habit-forming.
| WhitneyLand wrote:
| Extreme forms of procrastination do not mean that someone
| has ADHD by definition. It can be rooted in anxiety,
| stress, depression, other mental health conditions. It can
| be lack of motivation, or simply the habits and behaviors
| one has developed over time.
|
| I'd really like to know in addition to personal anecdotes
| of successfully overcoming it, what on average turns out to
| be most effective?
| prometheus76 wrote:
| I was diagnosed with anxiety and ADHD about 8 years ago,
| and since then, I have mainly worked on my anxiety. My
| anxiety has diminished drastically, and I have found that
| my ADHD symptoms are now manageable without medication
| (although I still struggle some days). For me, ADHD led to
| failing in my daily duties as a kid, which led to higher
| and higher levels of anxiety, which really exacerbated my
| ADHD symptoms. Now that I have learned how to control my
| anxiety, and with the resulting calming of my nervous
| system, the ADHD isn't nearly as problematic.
|
| TL;DR: anxiety and ADHD are often intertwined and they
| spiral each other out of control, so what looks like ADHD
| is sometimes much worse because of anxiety.
| annie_muss wrote:
| The real measure is the level of harm. That's it.
|
| My ADHD meant I couldn't hold down a job or relationship.
| You lose your job enough times and the depression that
| follows is inevitable.
|
| That said, I can imagine a Dustin where I had stumbled into
| a different career, a different family situation. Then my
| ADHD might not have caused enough problems to be a
| disorder.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| ADHD is definitely a major cause, but another big one which
| is much more complex to talk about is "avoidant" type
| behaviors that are a result of trauma/neglect/abuse early
| in life.
|
| There is correlation that occurs among diagnoses of ADHD,
| Autism, CPTSD, and other "mental issues", such that by the
| time one becomes noticeable as having _pathological_
| effect, then it's likely to be able to identify at least a
| few more issues acting in a comorbid manner.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| It's a square vs. rectangle kind of thing.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| Deep breath in... Many people who suffer from ADHD actually
| have undiagnosed allergies.
|
| My father was told he had ADHD late in life... he had
| allergies. I had problems with focus and being
| scatterbrained... on days the tree pollen was up. Kiddo was
| starting to get easily distracted and unable to focus on
| schoolwork... It was an allergy to the hard wheat used in
| U.S. bread making and preservatives.
|
| You [edit: most people] don't just "have ADHD." That's like
| diagnosing someone with a headache disorder. There's an
| underlying cause that requires more work to dig out.
| Jommi wrote:
| No that's not true. ADHD is a real thing that exists. You
| shominimize that.
|
| Now are there other disorders/illnesses/allergies that
| affect concentration definition.
|
| A lot of people have deviated septum or allergies that
| make nasal bresthing incredibly hard without effort. Of
| course this has a major effect on concentration.
|
| Other examples surely exist. But please don't minimize
| real debilitating ADHD.
| slowmovintarget wrote:
| I'm not talking about difficulty breathing. I'm talking
| about a systemic inflammatory response from allergies
| that includes neurological symptoms like an inability to
| focus, problems with reading comprehension, and
| uncontrolled daydreaming or "tuning out." Every time I
| got my allergy shots, my concentration was shot for the
| day, and it had zero to do with my nasal passages.
|
| I'm not minimizing the problems of those who suffer from
| ADHD. I'm hoping that they work with their doctors to see
| if there's more going on.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| I don't think they are in any way minimizing ADHD. ADHD
| is diagnosed by symptoms, and has a large number of
| different possible underlying causes, most of which are
| not well understood. When ADHD is caused or worsened by
| an allergy, that in no way makes it not real ADHD, but
| can make it easier to treat, if the allergy is
| identified!
|
| It's known that ADHD is highly heritable and has some
| specific genetic mutations weakly associated with it, but
| it can also be caused by traumatic brain injury, toxin
| exposure, some food dyes and preservatives, and
| allergies. It's very likely that many of the heritable
| genetic factors themselves have interactions with
| external environmental factors, and can therefore be
| treated with environmental manipulation, if we can
| understand it better.
| T_MacThrowFace wrote:
| If you ever get diagnosed as having ADHD though, then
| every doctor will forever pretend that they know for a
| 100% fact that your ADHD is caused by mutated dopamine
| receptors, while having done no testing of course; why
| would they when you have already been diagnosed
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| That is pretty silly, and a misunderstanding of the
| research. All of the mutations in dopamine transport
| associated with ADHD are pretty weakly associated, and
| still very common in the non-ADHD population.
| brnt wrote:
| People love to label things, and parents overlabelling ADHD
| has been a common warning among anyone working with kids
| now.
|
| In broader context I think we are now finally starting to
| pay attention to the fact every single human is subtly or
| not so subtly different, and we haven't even scratched the
| surface of mapping all those particularities and so we put
| people into categories we know, not necessarily where the
| actually belong.
|
| It's great were slowly letting go of 'normalising'
| ourselves, but we're going to have to learn entirely news
| vocabularies to says describe who we then are. Also, by
| thinking about yourself you define yourself, so if you
| think differently you define differently. I.e. we are
| fluid, to a certain extent.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| Memories of my ex-wife admonishing me, while in the throes of
| a deep, disabling episode of clinical depression, to "Snap
| out of it!"
| bloopernova wrote:
| I'm sorry that happened to you. The phrase that made my
| then wife an ex-wife for me was "you're not supposed to be
| fixing _yourself_ you 're supposed to be fixing our
| marriage!"
|
| Led me (with therapy and time) to realize what I meant to
| her; I was an accessory.
| camillomiller wrote:
| Oh wow, glad for you she's ex now
| brnt wrote:
| Wut, wild for her to not see how those two are so
| interlinked that separating them is considered old
| fashioned nowadays by therapists.
| verisimi wrote:
| "Snap out of it!"
|
| lol
|
| Sorry. I actually relate to this!
| Arrath wrote:
| Same. And all the comparisons akin to "Hey what are you
| sad about? You don't live in a third world country
| struggling from meal to meal!"
|
| Very helpful, thank you.
| d0100 wrote:
| Ironically, "snapping out of it" is the best way I can deal
| with it
|
| No other reasoning with myself works better than just
| "snapping out"
| helboi4 wrote:
| I just had my new therapist yesterday telling me
|
| "doesn't it feel good to be consistent and achieve things"
| and I'm like yeah no shit.
|
| "so you need to be consistent with something" yeah that's my
| problem dawg.
|
| "what's the feeling you get when you want to quit?" it just
| happens that my life falls apart or I get really into sth
| else. does nobody else just lose track of all the bricks
| required to do things sometimes?
|
| "it will eventually not become effort to do these things" no
| sir I can tell you from experience that it NEVER becomes
| natural for me to be organised and motivated. It takes
| substantial effort for me just to use a diary, which
| apparently is what is supposed to make me organised.
| Sometimes it becomes easiER because I have a streak of good
| habits, but it can fall apart at any moment because it's all
| a precarious conscious effort.
|
| "that's because you've never stuck to anything long enough"
| i've stuck to different things for different lengths of time,
| at what point are you suggesting this actually starts
| working?
|
| God I hate therapists. I sure do hope I actually have ADHD.
| Otherwise I'm fucked.
| SleepilyLimping wrote:
| It's always uncomfortable with a new therapist because they
| lack the context to know what you're going through, for how
| long, and the factors that are affecting it. I've seen mine
| for over a decade at this point, and when I talk to people
| about their potential growing pains when they're seeking
| out help, a lot of it is a reminder that you have to create
| that context/history with them over time.
|
| It seems like yours is more comfortable making suppositions
| without the historical context, which sucks to hear and is
| pretty exhausting.
| helboi4 wrote:
| Yeah, most therapists have pissed me off because its
| infuriating having to teach a so called expert how to
| understand you at a premium price. I find it ludicrous
| that they'd be able to tell me anything about myself that
| I don't know or that my friends couldn't point out to me,
| because I'm not exactly someone who struggles to analyse
| myself. I'm not unfamiliar with journalling, I have read
| tons of stuf about psychology and I'm not afraid to
| confront these things. I have therefore quit all therapy
| I've tried after a couple months tops because I can't
| justify paying to see how it goes. However, I am trying
| it again now because I am paying nothing now because of
| insurance. So even if I'm skeptical I lose nothing. So
| hopefully I'll get to the point of them having enough
| context to be helpful and can assess it properly this
| time.
| alpaca128 wrote:
| > I can't justify paying to see how it goes
|
| YMMV but the best therapist I've met so far already felt
| more understanding and productive in the first hour than
| others in months, I think if it's going nowhere after a
| couple sessions that might not change any time soon.
| prometheus76 wrote:
| Find someone that understands ADHD (even better if they
| have it too). This is just more gaslighting from people who
| can't comprehend that other people might not be wired the
| same.
| alpaca128 wrote:
| It sounds like your therapist is in the wrong profession.
|
| I've interacted with four different ones so far, and while
| the value I got out of them varied greatly I think none of
| them would ever say BS like that.
|
| > I sure do hope I actually have ADHD
|
| I hope whoever tests you is not like the ADHD "specialist"
| I had to deal with. Knowingly swapped symptoms and cause in
| the final report for whatever reason, and made terrible
| jokes that indicated he either doesn't know the basics I
| could read on Wikipedia or just already made up his mind
| beforehand. Absolutely fantastic when it comes to disorders
| subtle enough that you even question yourself sometimes.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| > It sounds like your therapist is in the wrong
| profession.
|
| It's like all professions. Most have no business being
| there. And if Pareto was right, then 20% of the therapist
| make up for the other 80%.
| doubled112 wrote:
| > you just need to write things down
|
| That's fine and all, but where did I write it down again?
|
| I lost my sense of smell for a few weeks with covid, and I
| actually can relate now. It's a very, very strange thing to
| be without. It doesn't seem that important until it's
| missing, but now I can't imagine life without it.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| I'm doubly screwed.
|
| Like you said
|
| > "It's the classic situation of someone without ADHD telling
| us "just focus!" or "you just need to write things down!" or
| "you're just lazy".
|
| Of course, this advice was never helpful and did not work.
| However, I was properly diagnosed, went to medication route,
| coupled it with therapy, and I'm still not better. Now, the
| medication and all that is definitely better than nothing,
| and I still rely on the relief I get. But the benefit of
| modern medicine for me is like taking a low dosage of
| painkillers for 3rd degree burns.
| brnt wrote:
| In defense of whoever said it to you: I find that writing
| things down goes a long way for me. Even just the act of it,
| without ever reading it back.
| jprd wrote:
| "...you are so smart, if only you would apply yourself!"
| hirvi74 wrote:
| Maybe that is a _true_ sign of intelligence? Smart enough
| to know it 's all a waste of time and effort.
| slingnow wrote:
| This isn't at all what they claim. Can you point out where they
| say that "if you just buy their thing you'll have a distraction
| free life in 14 days" ?
|
| What it actually claims is to get you to "bearable levels of
| procrastination", which I find refreshing, since it seems like
| a very achievable and realistic goal for those of us that
| procrastinate. In fact, this claim is nearly the opposite of
| what you're railing against.
|
| You also said you have personally started making a meaningful
| difference, but gave zero hint about what you have done, and
| what impact it has made. And you leave us with "maybe there's
| some advice buried in it". I'd like to say, no, there's none I
| can see, unless you'd like to offer something specific and
| helpful. I'm curious to see what you have done.
| hiatus wrote:
| > Can you point out where they say that "if you just buy
| their thing you'll have a distraction free life in 14 days" ?
|
| > From distraction to calm focus in 14 days
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| In fact my first reaction would tend to be the same as yours
| but then again,
|
| - If you read the whole article you see that it is in fact a
| pretext to a subscription.
|
| - There is in fact burried advice. The fact that reading
| articles like this is exciting and gives hope, but might turn
| out to be false hope in the end, especially if you have a
| severe form of ADHD. The advice is YMMV.
| charliebwrites wrote:
| What language and tools did you learn that helped you finally
| be able to cope?
|
| This is something I also struggle with and as I get older it
| feels like I'm losing opportunities to do the things I want to
| do to ADHD
| bibliotekka wrote:
| I too would appreciate some resourceful links.
| fragmede wrote:
| Dr. Russell Barkley is a good resource https://youtube.com/pl
| aylist?list=PLKF2Eq0eYbbrNLoJjFpWG_ULG...
|
| Jessica McCabe of How to ADHD is another one.
| https://youtu.be/sErtHttYOL4?si=ZZ2bGQ5HgbCIxSg8
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| I could have written this... I've spent thousands on
| productivity and organization courses, and put a lot of effort
| into them, only to find myself unable to follow the system, for
| reasons I don't understand.
|
| My whole life I've suffered from massive guilt, shame, and
| stress over not getting things done that were really important
| to me, and nobody understanding. "Clearly it's not important to
| you, or you would just do it."
|
| I was actually diagnosed with ADHD 12 years ago, and the first
| medication and dose I tried didn't work, so I stopped, and
| basically forgot I even had ADHD. In part, I think I
| internalized the shame and dismissals from other people and
| still believed I was just "lazy" and "bad" and needed to try
| harder even despite having a clinical diagnosis.
|
| It didn't help that my (now ex) wife also was totally
| dismissive of the idea that I had ADHD, as were most of my
| friends and family. Even from other people I know with ADHD,
| they would get angry or dismissive when I mentioned my
| diagnosis, saying I can't possibly have ADHD because I have
| been successful so far in my career.
|
| I just recently decided to start looking into it again, now
| that my son has also been diagnosed. If I can learn how to help
| myself, maybe it will help me help him.
|
| I recently heard a podcast interview with Jessica McCabe, and
| she said something that was mind blowing to me: that there is
| no one solution or cure for ADHD, and we need to stop looking
| for that. You will need a large toolbox of things to help, and
| will need to keep adapting and changing this, and it still
| won't ever be a "cure."
|
| If anyone has any good info or resources to learn more about
| ADHD, please post them.
| lupire wrote:
| I'm not comfortable taking advice on "deprocrastination" from
| someone who made procrastination their career (or side gig?),
| except for the advice "if you find yourself procrastinating, quit
| your job and make what you'd rather do your job". But that rarely
| pays the bills .
| bookofjoe wrote:
| "Work is what you're doing when you'd rather be doing something
| else."
| LoganDark wrote:
| Gee, I wish I had something stable that I'd "rather do". The
| problem is that even though I've had hundreds of hobbies, _once
| I get good at something, I stop being able to do it_. Not a
| single one of those hobbies lasts long enough to be a job.
| rapnie wrote:
| There's also the "Price goes up in" and a counter (4 hrs from
| now). So don't procrastinate, buy now! Geez.
| baapercollege wrote:
| You posted 4 hours back. Timer for me still shows 4 hours ;)
| no worries, feel free to procrastinate on the purchase
| larrik wrote:
| I believe that is 4 days, actually
| codetrotter wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=deprocrastination.co
|
| Interesting that pretty much all submissions on the first page of
| results from this domain is both by the same user and broadly
| seems to be about the same overarching theme of procrastination.
|
| Is OP the author of the site?
|
| (OP also posts links to other sites, so not saying OP is doing
| anything wrong though.)
| moritzwarhier wrote:
| Since 7 of the last 30 submissions by OP are that site and the
| pattern continues, I find it absolutely understandable and
| good-faith to become suspicious.
|
| Other users have been accusing the same
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28894120
|
| I don't want to participate in a witch hunt here, but HN needs
| to stay vigilant against spam and self-promotion that exceeds
| the reasonable intersection with honestly showing personal
| projects.
|
| Discussions including "human interest" topics like this one are
| often of exceptional quality here. It would be bad to lose
| that.
|
| So I think it is fair to dicuss this openly. Sorry if I am
| being coming across as rude towards a one man enterprise or
| something, but self-promotion on HN should follow strict rules
| and if this is indeed promotion, it is breaking the rules.
| strongpigeon wrote:
| Which rule is it breaking? From the guidelines:
|
| > Please don't use HN primarily for promotion. It's ok to
| post your own stuff part of the time, but the primary use of
| the site should be for curiosity.
| Tomte wrote:
| It's not breaking the rules. You're breaking the rules.
|
| Stop harassing people!
| moritzwarhier wrote:
| I'm sorry, harassing OP was the least of my intentions.
|
| So maybe I should have worded my comment differently, or
| not comment at all.
|
| The reason for my comment and that I even deep linked
| another thread was simple, I strongly felt that this
| exceeds a normal amount of promotional content, especially
| when it comes to self-help themes.
|
| My sincerest apologies if this came across as me unaskedly
| playing the moderator, or if my brief look at the previous
| threads appears like I was stalking OPs comment history.
| jacoblambda wrote:
| I think given the OP is a regular poster and they often post
| content from the same domains multiple times (each with a
| different article, with decent amounts of time between posts,
| i.e. ~1/wk), they probably just follow the content on these
| sites and "cross post" it to HN whenever they find something
| particularly interesting to them.
|
| I can say personally (while I don't post on HN), when I share
| content in a community, it's things I find interesting, which
| often I see from the projects/blogs I subscribe to/follow.
|
| So odds are OP is just someone with ADHD who finds this
| content useful to themself and people like them so they share
| new content from the site when they see it.
| moritzwarhier wrote:
| I did not elaborate on this for time reasons and because I
| don't want to make up unfounded accusations (astroturfing)
| against other users.
|
| Just had a bad gut feeling with this particular post and
| content and wanted to comment on it (plus context).
|
| Your explanation is nicer and I'll assume I was wrong here
| for it's better to assume good intentions.
| StefanBatory wrote:
| They might be just binging a site or just liking it to the
| point where they want to share every article.
|
| I would do so in the past too.
| Kiro wrote:
| > but self-promotion on HN should follow strict rules and if
| this is indeed promotion, it is breaking the rules.
|
| What rules are you referring to? This is what the HN
| guidelines say:
|
| "Please don't use HN primarily for promotion. It's ok to post
| your own stuff part of the time, but the primary use of the
| site should be for curiosity."
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
|
| Doesn't seem very strict to me.
| vitabenes wrote:
| I post whatever I find interesting and occasionally throw in
| one of the articles I worked on. If people find it interesting
| or useful, great, if not, that's okay too.
| xyzzy4747 wrote:
| In my experience the best way to solve procrastination, provided
| you have a tangible goal, is to do at least one small thing
| towards it per day. This will often (but not necessarily) put you
| in the mindset to do more things.
| thiago_fm wrote:
| Great ideas. I believe that dealing with a messy ambient or
| situations is a nice skill to develop, some people can't handle
| it at all.
|
| With time, you'll start to appreciate the imperfections, the fact
| that you can't absolutely focus for a task because people are
| sending you messages, will have a smaller impact on your emotions
| and your overall focus will improve.
|
| Having the goal of having absolute uninterrupted time and the
| stars aligning so you can just do what you need is the root of
| all procrastination, doing something 10% is better than 0%.
|
| I'm a perfectionist and as soon as I've started thinking,
| reflecting and accepting real and even half-assed solutions to
| problems, my life started to improve, and it became lighter as
| well.
|
| You also don't need to worry, you can't unlearn being a
| perfectionist, but indeed, you need a few things or moments of
| your day to unleash that "perfection' energy, it just doesn't
| need to be everytime.
| xyzelement wrote:
| My first couple of weeks at Bridgewater I was diagnosed with a
| fear of failure - deep reluctance to set off on a journey unless
| I could see the entire path through to the other side.
|
| I thought that was a good way to be actually (keeps you safe from
| doomed endeavors) but obviously keeps you from progressing on
| things where the only way to figure out the path is to walk it.
|
| In retrospect it's a form of anxiety. If you assume the world is
| against you and dangerous then setting into an ambiguous space is
| probabilistically negative. If you have faith that things work
| out for the best, it lets you set out on such a path easier.
|
| I think this isn't just me. We tend to procrastinate in the
| absence of "perfection " because we perceive some sort of danger
| / downside for ourselves from that imperfection. Whereas the
| better way to think is with the end in mind: what outcome do I
| really care about? Does this messy step X make that outcome a bit
| more likely? If yes then you do it with excitement.
| dakial1 wrote:
| You are describing me perfectly.
|
| One of the main things holding me back in life is this fear of
| taking risks (which translates into a lot of things, like
| procrastination)
|
| I'm great at mapping project risks though. So there is that. :)
| xyzelement wrote:
| I agree, and I think these are really easy to munge (and I've
| munged them)
|
| 1) your ability to perceive risk that is there to be
| perceived and act accordingly.
|
| 2) your ability to operate in places where you are not able
| to make risk-based decisions and you have to just "go for it"
|
| I am very good at #1 and it has been a handicap in navigating
| #2 because I keep searching for a "risk model" where one
| isn't available.
|
| That was the thing I've learned to overcome somewhat, as
| mentioned in the post you replied to.
| codelobe wrote:
| To lessen the cost of the first step that begins The Thousand
| Mile Journey: I plan to do everything at least twice. Leave
| room for failure in the prediction to (at least partially)
| avoid the planning fallacy.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_fallacy (if you haven't
| encountered this one weird quirk yet, it's a must read/skim). I
| believe most mammals tend toward optimism... They naturally
| have less fear of doomed endeavors.
|
| I had an essay on Emergent Design Principles around here
| somewhere... For instance, I do a quick and dirty stab in the
| dark to map the problem space. Then totally rewrite and
| refactor now that I can make a more educated guess. Right then
| I generate the API and all (public function stubs), organizing
| and documenting everything. Management will demand I "ship it"
| without full docs and full of kluges otherwise...
|
| I'll save the rest of that for a more on-topic thread. The gist
| is that procrastination can be countered by allotting time to
| play around in the problem space (incorporate procrastination
| into workflow -- can't beat it, join it). At worse I try a
| deliberate attempt at failure (well I knew it wouldn't have
| worked, but it would have been cool if it had), and at least I
| got myself into "code mode" doing something at all. No fear of
| failure, since I planned to fail that time anyway. Then I'll at
| least know a bit better the "lay of the land" (problem space
| features to fit against). It's oft the first step for me that's
| the hardest.
|
| My favorite trick is to have at least one side project that I
| work on as procrastination of doing main projects. Without fail
| I'll be worrying about the main project enough that I'll
| realize some side-project procrastination-code I've just
| written shows an elegant way forward in the main project and I
| can no longer resist the urge to see it in action. At the least
| I'll be making some manner of progress, and getting closer to
| that "Zen" state wherein I do my main project work.
| snikeris wrote:
| Was this diagnosis from your employer or colleagues?
| xyzelement wrote:
| I think it popped up on an assessment, or maybe my manager
| quickly tuned it. Either way, the organization was very keen
| to identify and help grow through such stuff.
| larrik wrote:
| I can definitely relate to this, and I found the only way past
| it (for me) was to _not plan at all._ Just show up and hope for
| the best, basically. Requires a different kind of prep (good
| habits vs direct planning) and an adjustment of attitude (it 's
| fine if things aren't perfect).
| hirvi74 wrote:
| > If you assume the world is against you and dangerous then
| setting into an ambiguous space is probabilistically negative.
|
| I have seen zero evidence that this is not true in my 31 years
| on this planet.
|
| > If you have faith that things work out for the best, it lets
| you set out on such a path easier.
|
| As Louis C.K. said:
|
| > "An optimist is somebody who says, 'Maybe something nice will
| happen?' Why they fuck would anything nice ever happen?"
| xyzelement wrote:
| I love Louis CK but you're quoting a joke. In reality almost
| everything we do is rooted in some optimism.
|
| Ever go on a job interview? It's because someone deep down
| you trust that it or another one like it will land you a job.
| Ever go on a date? It's because deep down you trust that
| something will work out with someone.
|
| Maybe _you_ don 't do these things, or maybe you do these
| things expecting bad outcomes (which ironically nearly
| guarantees that outcome) but the majority of the world
| operates this way.
| tokai wrote:
| Seems like a new-age con reformulated for the HN crowd.
| adadadadadad wrote:
| I wonder if anyone had success by handing control of their life
| to a higher power...like ChatGPT.
|
| I wonder if you could prompt it to be a vicious task master boss
| who demands regular status updates and can adequately shame you.
| corobo wrote:
| Tiny successes in something like this - I've got a whole system
| of timers that are either tracking what I'm doing or tracking
| the time when I'm not doing something during work time.
|
| From there I've got an automation that will send me a
| notification warning me the timewaster timer is about to start
| and that I should start working on something. There's a tiny
| slither of shame in there that seems to be helping! :)
|
| I am also working on a more thought out app/system/service/bot
| that does indeed use GPT (and regular old if statements and
| cron jobs) to help me schedule out my tasks for the day,
| recover my schedule after missing tasks, shame me via a
| messenger interface for leaving a task on my list too long,
| etc... but in the most obvious case of irony I keep
| procrastinating on actually building it. It's getting there
| slowly :)
| adadadadadad wrote:
| > tracking what I'm doing or tracking the time when I'm not
| doing something during work time.
|
| Made me think of a chess timer. Maybe I will buy one now
| haha.
|
| --
|
| I've found that any ideas I have for projects to help with
| procrastination never get done. It's the ultimate
| procrastination and there is no end to it. It doubly kills my
| motivation because now I have to be thinking how much more
| efficient I would be if I had my tools which I currently
| don't have. So even if I eventually start working, now it
| feels even harder :D
|
| I think there are a lot of rabbit holes like this in
| programming in general.
| hindsightbias wrote:
| What if we built procrastination into LLMs?
| hindsightbias wrote:
| How many of you have checked other media while reading this
| content or thread?
| thefatboy wrote:
| I was watching Constellation while reading this and didn't like
| the show... switched to something else while typing this
| comment.
| MichaelRo wrote:
| All these advice on productivity ultimately seem to wanna turn
| you into some sort of assembly line robot, achieve maximum
| productivity, produce!
|
| Well funk that, in the end what matters is persistence. You don't
| need to work 12 hours per day, heck don't even need to work 8 ;)
| ;) ;) I mean like everyone knows the productivity window is at
| best a couple hours. But those couple hours add up and in the end
| somehow stuff gets done, tasks get completed, company carries on.
|
| And on my own side projects I'm applying the same philosophy.
| Ideally a little bit from time to time (not even every day coze
| it starts to look too much like work). And if it happens that I
| start working and some interruption comes along, so be it, there
| will be another day. I don't have to ship tomorrow as long as I
| finish eventually. Over the years this has added up to quite a
| bit of accomplishments.
|
| So one word: persistence.
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