[HN Gopher] The asteroid that wiped out dinosaurs didn't impact ...
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       The asteroid that wiped out dinosaurs didn't impact bird evolution:
       new study
        
       Author : gardenfelder
       Score  : 21 points
       Date   : 2024-02-20 20:57 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | gardenfelder wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/StNCT
        
       | yodon wrote:
       | >"The signal from the fossil record is not ambiguous," Dr. Berv
       | said
       | 
       | The fossil record says the asteroid had a big impact on bird
       | evolution. A fancy new computer model trained on DNA data says it
       | didn't. The computer model's results are surprising and not
       | supported by the fossil record.
       | 
       | I know where I'm placing my bets.
        
         | TSiege wrote:
         | The fossil record could be incomplete, and both could be true.
         | I've seen other studies hinting at bird evolution happened
         | older than we thought
        
           | yodon wrote:
           | The fossil record is certainly incomplete, but it's also
           | certainly more reliable than a new DNA model reporting
           | conclusions that make no sense (the impact didn't impact bird
           | evolution? There's no way that passes the smell test)
        
       | kjkjadksj wrote:
       | Just because there was genetic diversity before the asteroid does
       | not mean it did not affect things. A human builds a shack in the
       | woods and that has measurable impact in terms of ecosystem
       | disturbance decades even centuries after its a ruin. An asteroid
       | is going to do something.
        
       | TSiege wrote:
       | This is a very strange argument. I don't see how you can say the
       | asteroid had no impact. There were entirely new niches that
       | opened up after the mass extinction. Birds by definition had to
       | evolve into them after the impact since ~75% of species went
       | extinct. I can believe that birds evolved before the impact, but
       | to say it didn't impact bird evolution is like saying mammal
       | evolution wasn't impacted by the impact because mammals pre-
       | existed before then. Who knows if birds would be as dominant as
       | they are today had the impact never have happened.
       | 
       | Today there are almost twice as many species of birds as there
       | are mammals. I think both can easily be true
       | 
       | > When searching for fossils of the major groups of birds alive
       | today, scientists have found almost none that formed before the
       | asteroid hit. That striking absence has led to a theory that the
       | mass extinctions cleared the evolutionary arena for birds,
       | allowing them to explode into many new forms. But the new study
       | came to a very different conclusion. "We found that this
       | catastrophe didn't have impact on modern birds," said Shaoyuan
       | Wu, an evolutionary biologist at Jiangsu Normal University in
       | Xuzhou, China.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | Scientists find lots of fossils in places where they are likely
         | to form, which is mostly wetlands. We have much less evidence
         | for what the rest of the world was like just because those area
         | didn't leave evidence behind. It may be that birds and mammals
         | dominated the earth - except for wetlands where dinosaurs lived
         | (probably not, but we don't have much evidence)
        
       | nemo wrote:
       | This computational model doesn't match the fossil record which
       | suggests the flaw is in the model, not the evidence.
        
         | greazy wrote:
         | They used the fossil record to fine tune the baysian
         | phylogenetic model. So no this is not correct.
        
       | riazrizvi wrote:
       | So looking at the timeline of DNA diversification in birds, the
       | biggest spread occurred 10's millions of years before the
       | asteroid mass extinction, and net there was not so much after the
       | asteroid hit itself. Makes sense to me as I imagine birds were
       | hit with devastated ecosystems and had to adapt, though I imagine
       | their greater range made them more resilient.
        
       | zozbot234 wrote:
       | Birds, seriously? "Birds" are not real, they literally _are_
       | dinosaurs.
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-20 23:00 UTC)