[HN Gopher] EU opens formal investigation into TikTok over possi...
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       EU opens formal investigation into TikTok over possible online
       content breaches
        
       Author : dev_tty01
       Score  : 83 points
       Date   : 2024-02-19 17:31 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | HermitX wrote:
       | The subtle influence of TikTok on people is quite astonishing. I
       | believe that there should also be antitrust laws in the field of
       | communication. Otherwise, platforms like TikTok can gradually
       | change people's thoughts, making their ideas more uniform. The
       | government should not control people's thoughts, nor should any
       | giant company control people's thoughts.
        
         | throwawayqqq11 wrote:
         | Governments should invest more into education to train kids to
         | actively seek and sense their cognitive biases. I think this is
         | the only serious solution, punishing or baning platforms just
         | addresses symptoms.
         | 
         | To tackle filter bubbles, you need digital competence, which is
         | also an educational problem.
        
           | kyleplum wrote:
           | I wish someone would make a social media version of the North
           | American house hippo commercial that ran in the late 90's.
        
           | dmonitor wrote:
           | i don't think awareness of reward training through
           | likes/engagement makes you any more resilient to it
        
             | earthwalker99 wrote:
             | yeah, one has to actually be rewarded appropriately for
             | their effort to learn such habits, but capitalism considers
             | it more important to reward owners of capital for doing
             | nothing at all, so we do that instead.
        
               | gameman144 wrote:
               | What would you imagine an appropriate reward for such
               | efforts would be, other than intrinsic ones?
        
           | earthwalker99 wrote:
           | giving parents time off to spend with their kids would be a
           | lot more effective. the schools can't even teach basic
           | material to poor kids because their home lives are so
           | lacking.
        
           | psychlops wrote:
           | Given any problem, someone will always find a government
           | solution.
        
           | vdaea wrote:
           | I've seen this done in Spain and basically it means all kids
           | have to go through an entire year of progressive propaganda.
           | Thanks but no thanks.
        
           | ImJamal wrote:
           | Will this actually work? If anything people will just think
           | they are too smart to be influenced.
        
         | psychlops wrote:
         | > The subtle influence of TikTok on people is quite
         | astonishing.
         | 
         | On _some_ people, not all. There will always be a susceptible
         | portion of people who gravitate towards some influence. Today
         | it is TikTok.
        
         | mrtksn wrote:
         | >platforms like TikTok can gradually change people's thoughts,
         | making their ideas more uniform
         | 
         | Its nothing special to TikTok, the only difference of TikTok is
         | that for the USA its a first(as a foreign owned social media
         | company). The rest of the world was under the influence of Meta
         | and Google for decades. It was reported that Facebook did
         | experiments like making people sad by curating the feed.
         | 
         | Anyway, TikTok is working great for me. I see no political or
         | culture war content, I enjoy comedians, travellers, scientists,
         | culture, culture commentators, songs, hot women and cats. Its
         | like the good old days of the internet, its fantastic. Also,
         | unlike the traditional social media, it doesn't induce FOMO. I
         | don'y check TikTok all the day, I don't feel the urge to be on
         | top of my feed but once I'm in I can spend hours. Much more
         | healthier than Instagram or Twitter IMHO. Also, I see all the
         | cringe inducing TikTok stuff when on Twitter. That stuff never
         | appears on my TikTok feed.
         | 
         | I wonder if EU will find anything. maybe sharing of private
         | data illegally?
        
           | snowpid wrote:
           | There are reports of rising antisemitism thanks to Tiktok e.
           | G. https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/bildungsstaette-anne-frank-
           | pr...
        
             | mrtksn wrote:
             | There were also reports about rising extremism because of
             | Youtube, it was discussed many times here. Also, do I have
             | to remind of the state of Twitter? Wasn't Facebook involved
             | in an actual genocide[0]? Maybe its just the society
             | evolving and engagement based algorithms accelerating it?
             | 
             | As I said, I don't see political content on TikTok but
             | that's probably due to my engagement patters. People who
             | are into these things, they likely see as much as they
             | like.
             | 
             | I do agree that social media can be a danger to the society
             | though. IMHO, the solution to this shouldn't be suppression
             | of speech or tune algorithms to favor any politics. After
             | all, the world is never simple as the good vs the evil,
             | even though every party tries really hard to depict
             | themselves as the good ones.
             | 
             | I think we would be better off with enforcing transparency.
             | I would love if EU made TikTok open its algorithm and
             | enforce review on the data that the algo runs on.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-
             | faceb...
        
               | rightbyte wrote:
               | > Wasn't Facebook involved in an actual genocide[0]?
               | Maybe its just the society evolving and engagement based
               | algorithms accelerating it?
               | 
               | The algorithms seem to feed people what they like, so
               | people with fringe ideas think they have a lot of
               | support. Matched together with mob mentality, threaten
               | and "downvote" dissenters, which makes the "downvoted"
               | people believe they are fringe, I can easily see how
               | Facebook at least increases the risk of genocide mobs, or
               | any other obscene herd mentality action.
               | 
               | Like, people that are considered maniacs by their peers,
               | can more easily find each other and organize,
               | fundamentally. And the algorithm does it for them.
        
               | mrtksn wrote:
               | Maybe its just that we as species are not able to act
               | intelligently as large groups? Maybe we have tools to
               | deal with bad actors in small groups but those tools
               | don't exist in the artificial large networks? Maybe those
               | networks are structured in such a way that we can't act
               | in any other way and participate? Maybe being flamboyant
               | hustler is the only succeeding strategy?
               | 
               | I don't know but I' definitely not happy with the current
               | state.
        
               | snowpid wrote:
               | I glad your engagement pattern doesn't lead you to
               | antisemitic content According to the DSA researcher will
               | get access to Tik tok. We might have more data in the
               | future.
        
               | mrtksn wrote:
               | I get all my antisemitism from Twitter. Good thing that
               | words are not spells, I might have turned into one.
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | That sort of cry reminds me of the '80s "Dungeons and
             | Dragons turn children satanists!!!"...
        
               | snowpid wrote:
               | Except there is rising antisetism in Germany (source of
               | the report) and according to media reports there is
               | rising antisemitism in the US which is the source of your
               | phrase.
        
               | mrtksn wrote:
               | Antisemitism might be rising due to many things, like an
               | ongoing event where huge number of civilians, including
               | children are killed. That kind of stuff can make people
               | angry and emotional and direct it towards a group of
               | people instead of politicians. It's beyond me why anyone
               | would attribute it to social media company.
               | 
               | If there was no TikTok/Twitter etc, people would have
               | heard of it from politicians and NGOs and some people
               | with other motives would have used it.
        
               | snowpid wrote:
               | Can you eloberate why the Gazian Israelian war is linked
               | to planned terror attacks with bombs on Synogogs in
               | Berlin? Also this link can be seen on Tik Tok so they
               | become more antisemetic.
        
               | mrtksn wrote:
               | I have no idea if it is linked or if so why would it be
               | linked on that particular incident. What I see on Twitter
               | though, is that people get angry and seek answers when
               | people they feel connected to are wronged and there are
               | always people providing answers like "because Jews are
               | like that".
               | 
               | I wouldn't say that this is necessarily Twitters fault
               | and I don't think these comments should be blocked.
               | People gravitate towards easy answers to their problems
               | and blocking doesn't help because there's private groups
               | and real life communities where that kind of stuff is
               | discussed.
               | 
               | I think, people concerned of social media are also
               | seeking easy answers like those concerned with the mass
               | killings of Palestinians. They all have valid concerns
               | but their desire of easy solutions is misguided. It's so
               | easy to say its the "evil jews" and its so easy to say
               | that social media companies are radicalising people. Only
               | if they can do this thing they will fix it, they think.
               | 
               | There's no easy solution to Gaza-Israel conflict, there's
               | no easy solution to people communicating BS with each
               | other.
        
               | victornomad wrote:
               | Germany got a bit off-rails during the last months. Any
               | critique towards Israel's actions it is called
               | antisemitism.
               | 
               | As an example, this event organised by jewish people to
               | talk about peace have been marked as antisemite by the
               | government and lead to funding cancellation of a cultural
               | center.
               | 
               | https://oyoun.de/en/news/offener-brief-oyoun-muss-
               | bleiben/
        
               | snowpid wrote:
               | 1.) The study is about antisemitism in Germany. There are
               | Hamas supporters who plan terror attacks against
               | synagogues and churches. 2.) Just somebody claimed to be
               | canceled is not objectely canceled. 3.) this institution
               | invitated people who have a positive and supportive view
               | on 7 October massacre, source
               | https://www.tagesspiegel.de/kultur/neukollner-
               | kulturzentrum-... 4.) It's about governmental funding.
               | They still operate but why should my tax money put into
               | this institution who have a positive attitude to
               | massacres.
               | 
               | Can you read German or does your knowledge is based on
               | English sources on this topic?
        
             | DaveExeter wrote:
             | I think you've identified the real problem with Tiktok! It
             | is resistant to political censorship.
        
           | snarfy wrote:
           | I recall during the last election cycle I would always see
           | divisive posts from friends on facebook. Facebook has me
           | marked as liberal. I would always see rather inflammatory
           | posts from conservative friends.
           | 
           | What bothered me was that those same friends would post
           | dozens of times a day about non political things, posts that
           | would get a lot of comments and likes. I _never_ saw those
           | posts unless I went directly to their page. Facebook only put
           | their posts on my feed which would be inflammatory.
        
             | mrtksn wrote:
             | I don't mind political content even from fringe ideologies.
             | I'm actually curious why people think what they think, why
             | people do what they do. I know the arguments of "my side"
             | and I want to know the "other side".
             | 
             | That's why I still use Twitter but my problem with the
             | traditional social media is that it constantly induces
             | anger in me.
             | 
             | Lately, I also begin seeing too much bullying, the red pill
             | alpha male stuff that constantly argues someone is
             | bad/immoral/weak if doing this unimportant or mundane thing
             | and we are all doomed and this one weird trick can fix
             | it(usually crypto, some BS attitude towards someone etc).
             | It feels like high school. Just unbearable.
             | 
             | I made myself a few list of people from different view so I
             | can be aware of their agenda and argumentation but can't
             | stand the "for you" tab.
             | 
             | If Twitter was a real life those people in the "for you"
             | tab wouldn't have survived a day among the society, IRL you
             | can't just go around and spell BS constantly. There's a
             | serious hustler overload in the traditional social media, a
             | functioning society doesn't have space for that many
             | flamboyant people.
             | 
             | Its exhausting. One Dan Bilzerian may be an entertainment,
             | add a Kardashian too maybe but a society of %0.1
             | Kardashians is too much. That's not a society. Maybe we
             | don't have a real social media anymore due to the
             | engagement wars.
        
           | kitd wrote:
           | My kids are self-confessed TikTok addicts. They are aware
           | that now when they watch YouTube, they get 5 minutes in and
           | wonder when the heck it's going to end.
           | 
           | Even they recognize the adverse effect on attention spans.
        
             | ysavir wrote:
             | It doesn't help that YouTube was pushing creators towards
             | longer and longer videos, resulting in lots of fluff and
             | padding to convert a simple idea into an unnecessarily long
             | entity for the sake of algorithm rankings.
             | 
             | While lack of attention span is a valid problem, YT has
             | also created the problem of attentions not being rewarded.
        
             | mrtksn wrote:
             | I'm happy for you for having good kids but in my experience
             | becoming truly self happens much later in life and I think
             | your kids are simply thinking in your mental models, which
             | I guess makes you a good parent. Not necessarily right
             | about TikTok though.
        
           | lm28469 wrote:
           | > Anyway, TikTok is working great for me.
           | 
           | I mean there are productive members of our society that are
           | heroine addicts, the vast majority of heroine addicts aren't
           | though
        
             | mrtksn wrote:
             | I'm much less addicted to TikTok than I'm addicted to HN,
             | Reddit, Twitter, YouTube and Instagram. I will use TikTok
             | every few days, usually before sleep because I don't feel
             | like something is happening and I'm missing out.
             | 
             | On the other hand, I constantly feel the urge to check
             | what's going on in the rest.
             | 
             | Other people may have a different experience but its up to
             | them to write about it. I can't speak for them and I'm not
             | obligated to repeat the mainstream narrative. TikTok is
             | working amazingly well for me.
        
           | mathgradthrow wrote:
           | China _is_ a special case, as Tiktok does not have the
           | oversight of a democracy.
        
             | gwervc wrote:
             | The exact same thing can be said about Instagram and the
             | US. The fact consumers are summoned once in a while to
             | chose in-between two sockpuppets of the establishment
             | (corporations + deep state) is of little relevance,
             | especially to foreigners like me living under its
             | imperialism.
        
               | mathgradthrow wrote:
               | It matters quite a lot that it's bound by effectively no
               | treaties or oversight by the population. Instagram also
               | sucks, but there's at least a theoretical path to reining
               | it in.
        
         | rightbyte wrote:
         | Until "recently" it was only crackpots and dictators that even
         | though about controlling social media, by definition -- you
         | were one if you raised concerns. At least how I read the
         | political climate.
         | 
         | I guess it is good that awareness is raised, but I feel it is
         | for the wrong reasons. There can be no major distinction
         | between e.g. Facebook and TikTok.
        
         | mypornaccount wrote:
         | I have noticed that a lot of people I follow on instagram who
         | use tiktok all adopt the exact same opinion of
         | $CONTROVERSIAL_TOPIC at roughly the same time.
        
         | 1letterunixname wrote:
         | Relevant reads:
         | 
         |  _Manufacturing Consent (1989)_
         | 
         | https://archive.org/details/pdfy-NekqfnoWIEuYgdZl
         | 
         |  _Persuasive Technology (1996,2002)_
         | 
         | https://archive.org/details/persuasivetechno0000fogg
        
           | psychlops wrote:
           | Old school. Is there a TikTok summary of these?
        
       | rrr_oh_man wrote:
       | Unregulated Social Media is a toxic death spiral for human
       | relations, just like unregulated capitalism is for humans and the
       | environment we share with this planet's inhabitants.
        
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