[HN Gopher] Bach's Cantata Calendar
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       Bach's Cantata Calendar
        
       Author : Schiphol
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2024-02-19 10:11 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (whichbachcantata.be)
 (TXT) w3m dump (whichbachcantata.be)
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | His music is divine manna gifted from the heavens, but I just
       | can't stand the cantatas. Too church-y.
        
         | davidivadavid wrote:
         | You're in luck, today's is a secular cantata.
        
         | bowsamic wrote:
         | That's kind of the point, they're literally called "church
         | cantatas"
         | 
         | Also, it's weird how you make an explicit and positive
         | religious reference and then express distaste at the religious
         | context that Bach composed for and in. In what sense is it
         | divine then, if you dislike the music he wrote for the church?
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | There are other paths to divinity than christian and perhaps
           | the commenter prefers one of those.
           | 
           | A good example would be Plato's cave metaphor (predating
           | christianity by centuries), arguing that there is an
           | intangible divine world. Mathematics, clearly also beloved to
           | Bach, is a nonreligious tool to appreciate that divine world.
           | 
           | One can listen to the intricacies of the Passacaglia und Fuge
           | c-Moll and glimpse an inscrutable world behind it. Is that
           | not divine?
        
             | bowsamic wrote:
             | I don't know, I have no sense of the divine. I enjoy the
             | music and hear that Bach was a Christian. I am a huge Bach
             | fan but I don't know what the divine is and doubt I'll ever
             | know. I am like a p zombie but for spiritual matters
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | I find when I listen to these fugues my mind is drawn to
               | and becomes lost in the overtones and the mathematical
               | depths and recursion. Being transported to another place
               | that way, out of my body and sense of where I am, I
               | consider divine.
               | 
               | Bach is not the only such, but he is the master.
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | I can't think of anything more Earthly than enjoying the
               | beauty of mathematics and music
        
               | matt-attack wrote:
               | Wouldn't mathematics transcend our tiny blue dot? Sure
               | topics like geography, biology and history don't surely
               | math and physics do!
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | No, I think mathematics and physics are invented by
               | humans in a human form for humans, but then again, I'm a
               | theoretical physicist, so I'm biased
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | Wow, for me things that can't be physically represented
               | (at a human scale anyway) such as most of mathematics,
               | physics, and frankly music are fascinating, definitely
               | feel real, can be explored, but yes, are beyond concrete
               | representation.
               | 
               | Could one write a 16-part invention? I doubt it;
               | certainly I think it would be hard to conceive of playing
               | it, but I can "look into" a complex invention as I hear
               | it and see how it could subdivide and get an idea of
               | where that could lead. Certainly anything beyond the
               | physically representative is to me sublime, and still
               | able to trigger synesthesthetic response.
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | I don't have synesthesia, and I don't really have a
               | concept of the sublime. All of reality is "the same" to
               | me
        
               | zoogeny wrote:
               | There isn't a singular experience of the divine that you
               | either have or do not have. The Bhagavad Gita, for
               | example, in large part discusses the multitude of ways
               | one can experience the divine. It strongly makes the case
               | that doing ones duty is equally valid to both worship and
               | seeking spiritual wisdom.
               | 
               | The story is based around a warrior prince named Arjuna
               | having a conversation with the manifestation of God in
               | the form of Krishna. Arjuna is confused because Krishna
               | is explaining that giving up all earthly desire is the
               | path to union with the divine. Yet Krishna is also
               | imploring Arjuna to do his duty as a warrior prince and
               | to fight in a battle to regain his kingdom. This is
               | obviously a contradiction, since desiring to defeat his
               | opponents and regain an earthly kingdom is in opposition
               | to our traditional understanding of religious observance.
               | 
               | The idea these ancient authors were trying to communicate
               | to us is that not everyone is going to be a monk. You
               | need bricklayers, bakers, doctors and programmers. The
               | trick is to realize that fully being a human, engaged in
               | some activity, is equivalent to experiencing the divine.
               | Nowadays we might feel more comfortable with the secular
               | "flow" ideas, that mental state some experience when
               | completely absorbed in their work.
               | 
               | So don't worry if you can't find the divine through
               | ritual worship or through the exploration of spiritual
               | wisdom. The divine is right there and possible for anyone
               | to experience (if you believe the ancient authors of
               | spiritual works like the Gita).
        
           | epiccoleman wrote:
           | I took the parent comment's "contrast" as a bit of joke, but
           | even if it wasn't intended that way, I think it expresses
           | something very real about the way some of us experience
           | "spirituality" - i.e. that the rituals and "orderliness" of
           | say, the Catholic church, seem to get in the way of
           | spirituality more than they help it. Contrasting this with
           | sacred music can help illuminate what I mean - music seems,
           | in some way, to bypass much of the "logical" aspects of the
           | ritual and hit us somewhere a little bit deeper.
           | 
           | I'm not quite sure where I stand on this, as a lapsed
           | Catholic and also as a lapsed "New Atheist" who's found
           | himself somewhere in the middle (the dreaded and wishy-washy
           | "spiritual but not religious" category).
           | 
           | I share a general... mistrust of heavily ritualized /
           | dogmatized religion. But at the same time, I recently
           | attended a Catholic funeral for my grandma, and was very
           | affected by some of the procedures. In particular, the final
           | funeral blessing at the end of the mass, where the priests
           | swung the censer over the casket, was quite beautiful - the
           | smoke slowly ascending, lit by the stained glass, and the
           | walk out with the casket with light streaming through those
           | windows.
           | 
           | These rituals stick around for a reason - it doesn't have to
           | be a supernatural reason, but it certainly felt, during that
           | service, that the whole mass had been very well designed to
           | hit at some deep-seated and primal feelings within the
           | attendees.
           | 
           | So anyway, as seems to be my pattern on these matters, I find
           | myself somewhere in the middle - able to appreciate both the
           | ritualistic and naturalistic approaches to spirituality. (But
           | never quite able to come down hard for one side or the
           | other!)
        
         | MengerSponge wrote:
         | The style has endured mostly in sacred music, so I get the
         | association. They aren't all church-y though!
         | 
         | The Coffee Cantata, for example:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nifUBDgPhl4
        
         | swannodette wrote:
         | I felt that way at first, but after getting around to listening
         | to a few of them you start to realize he repurposed a lot his
         | favorite material from these cantatas into his instrumental
         | works. For example, one of Bach's innovations was the keyboard
         | concerto - where the keyboard played the central solo role. The
         | profound Harpsichord Concerto in D minor BWV 1052,
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZX_XCYokQo, is actually
         | reworked from the cantatas BWV 146 & 148.
         | 
         | While there's obviously plenty to enjoy w/o dipping into the
         | cantatas, you might miss out on making these kinds of
         | connections which I think really enriches our understanding of
         | the instrumental works.
        
         | villasv wrote:
         | There's one about a lady addicted to coffee
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | Amazing that it never clicked for me that yes, these were written
       | for calendar events. It's hard not to get into Bach without
       | triggering any latent apophenic urges, and now I need to go
       | through each of these pieces looking for intentional geometric
       | relationships to the calendar events they were written for.
       | 
       | An interesting AI challenge might be to determine whether a given
       | thing is or contains a puzzle.
        
       | HuShifang wrote:
       | John Eliot Gardner's "Bach: Music in the Castle of Heaven" is a
       | sort of musical biography featuring a (very) deep dive on the
       | cantatas.
        
       | acheron wrote:
       | WCRB in Boston does a Bach show every week which is available for
       | streaming. Lots of times there's a cantata that fits the
       | calendar.
       | 
       | https://www.classicalwcrb.org/show/the-bach-hour
        
       | sumpmonster wrote:
       | Very well done! You might also be interested in my Bach cantatas
       | app (https://www.cantatasapp.com) for iOS and Android which has
       | an infinite liturgical calendar and lots more of information
       | about Bach's wonderful cantatas (complete text, instrumentations,
       | hymns, readings and even score references).
        
         | terminalcommand wrote:
         | Great app, but unfortunately google play in Turkey says "this
         | item is not available in your country.". Was this something you
         | were aware of?
        
       | NelsonMinar wrote:
       | This data is crying out for a calendar view.
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-19 23:01 UTC)