[HN Gopher] A steep rise of Hackernews in Google rankings
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       A steep rise of Hackernews in Google rankings
        
       Author : jcmp
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2024-02-18 22:06 UTC (54 minutes ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jonathanpagel.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jonathanpagel.com)
        
       | kgbcia wrote:
       | We need more sites like hackernews. X /twitter used to be that ,
       | but it's now overwhelmed with bots and SEO. The more boring you
       | make a site (no colors, no images, no links) the better the
       | defense against spammers.
        
         | abraae wrote:
         | Downvoted but true.
         | 
         | HN's pedestrian design makes for a much better experience.
         | 
         | - no flair for usernames - means people concentrate on the
         | message not the messenger
         | 
         | - no visible karma for anyone but the top few - means people
         | don't spend (as much) time karma whoring
         | 
         | - limited formatting, no images or video - increases the value
         | and import of the written word
         | 
         | - no sharing, or @user referencing - means posts live and die
         | more by their merit rather than brigading or other shenanigans
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | _no visible karma for anyone but the top few_
           | 
           | It took one click to see that user _abraae_ has 6671, as of
           | this writing. Or did I miss the point in dramatic fashion?
        
             | abraae wrote:
             | Oops. I was really meaning no badges, karma etc. showing
             | next to people's posts but forgot you can see it by
             | clicking in.
        
             | foolswisdom wrote:
             | I wonder the same, I can definitely see the karma of users
             | who have only double digit (and I think I have seen single
             | digit) karma.
        
             | radley wrote:
             | You did. His score has little to do with anything on the
             | site. That's the point.
        
             | justech wrote:
             | I think it's a lot less obvious here than on Reddit you
             | could hover over a username and see it.
        
           | lnauta wrote:
           | On top of that no sharing/@ing: no notifications for
           | responses (there's probably an addon for that if you want
           | it).
           | 
           | At first I thought I wouldn't like it, because I tend to post
           | on subjects I'm knowledgeable and want to do my best there.
           | But now I'm so glad to not get the anxiety and rush of the
           | back and forth in heated discussions.
           | 
           | Peace and quiet.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | Optimized for thoughtful discussion over engagement.
        
         | bobthepanda wrote:
         | bots and SEO have really destroyed the internet. and now that
         | we have AI to further streamline the production of BS, I feel
         | like the Internet is just going to become even more of a
         | quality content wasteland.
        
           | theturtletalks wrote:
           | Goodharth's Law destroyed the internet. The constant game of
           | chess between Google and SEO marketers has the turned the
           | whole search product to crap.
           | 
           | It won't improve since when Google makes a change, SEO
           | marketers adapt. The websites that actually provide value and
           | don't really care about SEO suffer as well as the users
           | looking for that exact information.
        
           | 1270018080 wrote:
           | I'm just waiting for some kind of real person yet anonymous
           | protocol that gets introduced in the next era of forums.
        
           | Devasta wrote:
           | I fully believe that, especially with the rise of AI models,
           | the future of the internet is going to be small enclaves of a
           | few thousand people on invite only message boards. Anything
           | else is just going to be far and away too much effort for
           | anyone to maintain, especially when advertisers twig that
           | their ads are mostly being shown to bots.
           | 
           | I just don't see how anything else could be sustainable.
        
             | quickslowdown wrote:
             | So just like that past? Bring it on, that was the better
             | internet
        
       | bryanrasmussen wrote:
       | so the theory is that now there will be a lot of bots taking over
       | HN and posting stuff that they want to rank up, destroying the
       | value of the site? What's the defense there?
        
         | jcmp wrote:
         | Bit afraid about that. Honestly it is suprising how spam free
         | HN is, so maybe they have some good anti spam system in place.
         | Also i think it would make sense to set all outside links to
         | "nofollow" so google ingores them and therefore it is less
         | interesting for SEO.
        
           | MrBlueIncognito wrote:
           | That would also eliminate any positive effect that HN has on
           | Google search results.
        
           | sebzim4500 wrote:
           | I wonder if nofollow actually does anything nowadays. I feel
           | like the rules that used to be enforced have been replaced
           | with hacky 'AI' that have been hacked together by thousands
           | of SWEs trying to improve some metric for their promotion
           | packet.
        
             | jcmp wrote:
             | the "google way" would be to use instead of "nofollow"
             | "ugc" which stands for user generated content.[1] In the
             | same document they state "We'll generally treat them as we
             | did with nofollow before and not consider them for ranking
             | purposes". However they lied often about their ranking
             | signals ;) https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2019/0
             | 9/evolving-n...
        
           | spacebacon wrote:
           | It gets its fair share of spam but the platform is very
           | effective at moderation. Show dead and scroll new for
           | examples.
        
         | fluidcruft wrote:
         | Wouldn't the defense be to delist and starve/block the google
         | crawlers? Gaming google rankings is a waste of time if it's not
         | there.
        
           | EarthLaunch wrote:
           | The new way to build communities: SE-anti-O. Trying to rank
           | as low as possible. Things will flip and sites will try to be
           | uncrawlable to Google. I guess it's already happened with
           | Discord.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | Over the past few weeks I've seen more crypto scam posts than
         | ever. While they quickly become dead, I'm not sure if they are
         | coming in a faster rate than in the past or what.
        
       | monero-xmr wrote:
       | Maybe it's because HN is well moderated and open to automated
       | scraping, unlike other systems that are being locked down
       | (reddit, Twitter) so the user generated content is now
       | significantly more valuable to search engines.
        
       | m2mdas2 wrote:
       | Eternal september more accelerated.
        
       | tcldr wrote:
       | Dear Google, we were only adding 'site:reddit.com' or
       | 'site:news.ycombinator.com' to search queries so we could get to
       | opinions that weren't being manipulated by SEO fiddlers. What's
       | our alternative now?
        
         | teruakohatu wrote:
         | Spammers have been heavily targeting reddit for years and
         | site:reddit.com is still useful.
         | 
         | Why Google have not bought reddit, I don't know (beyond
         | moderation issues, but AMZN made it work with twitch).
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | I've become really skeptical of Reddit comments around
           | products for this reason. Searching "best X site:reddit.com"
           | and going off the top comment recommendation seems really
           | sketchy when that top comment is only 5-10 points.
           | 
           | Maybe I'm just really paranoid these days, but I would bet
           | looking at searches with Reddit in them and creating threads
           | or commenting on old ones and paying for up votes is probably
           | lucrative.
        
           | arccy wrote:
           | why would they buy a cesspool of bots and memes? google is
           | for finding content, not hosting content (unless you want it
           | shut down)
        
           | tmpz22 wrote:
           | I don't think Reddit has ever been a clean acquisition -
           | either because they've raised at high valuations many times
           | or because of an undesirable content/moderation problem.
        
       | Scubabear68 wrote:
       | HN deserves to be at or near the top of search results because
       | the quality of discourse is so high here, and on a very wide
       | range of topics.
       | 
       | I have noticed an increase in errors here in the past few months
       | though, I wonder if this is the cause.
        
       | chipweinberger wrote:
       | I think the only defense for increased spam is accounts will need
       | to be tied to real people through some other identification.
       | 
       | Sucks, but is there an alternative?
       | 
       | I recently switched to more actively using my account that has my
       | name as the username, anticipating the growing problem of spam
       | detection, and trying to make it more clear this account is not
       | spam.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | Which identification is that?
         | 
         | Also, identification is not something that is revocable. If
         | someone steals and abuses your identity (though no fault of
         | your own?), are you now banned from the internet?
        
       | ahmedfromtunis wrote:
       | What's worrying here also is Google's willingness to use a random
       | comment as the source for its snippets.
       | 
       | I understand that the average HN commenter puts more effort into
       | their comments, and their veracity, than the average internet
       | user elsewhere, but still.
       | 
       | (For me, the top "result" for _Monaco in italian_ is the Google
       | Translator widget with Collins Dictionary, Wikipedia and Quora
       | the top 3 links. HN is 4 or 5 links below.)
       | 
       | Oh, and yes, let's hope spammers don't overwhelm dang!
        
       | tayo42 wrote:
       | What happens when hn outgrows it's current self? Even now, the
       | front page is pretty fast paced. Things get burried pretty quick.
       | Sometimes I see an interesting post and comments and think to my
       | self I want to come back later when I have more time but it'll be
       | a few pages off the front by then.
        
       | pknerd wrote:
       | Is it not called "Parasite SEO"[1]?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.kiwop.com/en/blog/parasite-seo-what-is-it-and-
       | ho....
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-18 23:00 UTC)