[HN Gopher] Poland's PM says previous government illegally used ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Poland's PM says previous government illegally used Pegasus spyware
        
       Author : arkadiyt
       Score  : 159 points
       Date   : 2024-02-18 19:45 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (apnews.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (apnews.com)
        
       | andrenth wrote:
       | "Poland and the demon in democracy"
       | https://theupheaval.substack.com/p/poland-and-the-demon-in-d...
        
         | Kwpolska wrote:
         | Politicians committing crimes end up in courts and then in
         | prison, plain and simple. And this is plain propaganda,
         | repeating many talking points of the PiS party (the party
         | previously in power, who illegally used Pegasus).
        
           | Tostino wrote:
           | iT's poLitICal PerSeCutiOn!
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | Is anyone fooled by this drivel? Honest question. Because some
         | things are pernicious: misleading but in a subtle way, sly and
         | devious. This is just so in-your-face laughable.
        
           | padjo wrote:
           | About 40% of American voters appear to be falling for it.
        
         | bobx11 wrote:
         | The author seems to contradict themselves in many places...
         | maybe they just really want it to be true. For example,
         | "allegedly" and "convicted" in this case:
         | 
         | > He was convicted during Tusk's previous regime (2007-2014)
         | for allegedly abusing his power while pursuing government
         | corruption with "excessive zeal," but was officially pardoned
         | by then-new President Andrzej Duda in 2015 - a long-standing
         | point of displeasure for the Polish left.
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | > The former top European Union official's party only won 30%
         | of the vote compared to the 36% of his incumbent conservative,
         | EU-skeptical rivals, the Law and Justice (PiS) party, but was
         | nonetheless able to assemble a coalition of leftists to take
         | power.
         | 
         | Just one party in this coalition is from the left. The rest is
         | decidedly centre to centre-right.
         | 
         | Hard to treat this piece seriously.
        
       | rasz wrote:
       | 1 Over 7000 licenses for Pegasus alone. Both opposition and own
       | party surveilled.
       | 
       | 2 Usage of Pegasus means all intercepts are on the servers in
       | Israel. All Government secrets and potential kompromat
       | transferred to foreign power.
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | _> Usage of Pegasus means all intercepts are on the servers in
         | Israel_
         | 
         | Wait, seriously? Any sources on that? I find it hard to believe
         | that any government would spend $$$ on a security tool that
         | doesn't allow on-prem installation and instead beams all your
         | surveillance to another country.
        
           | DANmode wrote:
           | You have a lot to catch up on, then.
        
           | xemoka wrote:
           | I'm curious about this statement too, seems there's evidence
           | that they don't and the customer is the data handler: https:/
           | /www.edps.europa.eu/system/files_en?file=2023-01/0221... top
           | of page 4.
           | 
           | I guess this is all according to NSO claims. I'd like to see
           | evidence otherwise!
        
             | axlee wrote:
             | Why would you trust anything a spyware company says? This
             | is not a tongue-in-cheek question.
        
               | miohtama wrote:
               | No honour among the thieves
        
               | giancarlostoro wrote:
               | It is a lot of money lost if it comes out that you lied
               | to some of your biggest clients.
        
             | rasz wrote:
             | That was one of the claims during parliamentary committee
             | investigating it.
        
           | voytec wrote:
           | S(pyware)aaS
        
           | siva7 wrote:
           | a) it's not a security tool but spyware b) this spyware is
           | meant to spy on the government so this job is better
           | outsourced to another government
        
           | Szpadel wrote:
           | this was meant to be used for spying terrorists and such, so
           | should not be big deal
           | 
           | from what I heard about Pegasus: noone could get that malware
           | for themselves to not compromise it, so it's you wanted to
           | hijack some phone you would send them phone number so they
           | could resend exploit again (spyware was not persistent across
           | reboots, so you needed to rehack it every time)
        
         | odiroot wrote:
         | 3. And most importantly: all of that funded by the taxpayer, to
         | satisfy one man's paranoia.
        
       | agilob wrote:
       | "and illegally" is strangely missing from the title
        
         | dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
         | God knows what dystopian regulations/powers they created for
         | themselves.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | That's no doubt an artifact of HN's 80 char title limit, which
         | required the submitter to shorten the title.
         | 
         | Edit: I've changed it now.
        
       | sjwhevvvvvsj wrote:
       | Fuck NSO Group.
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | The NSO is only supplying a product for which there is
         | insatiable demand from every government. If they wouldn't build
         | them, someone else will.
         | 
         | They're kind of like arms manufacturers. Do you blame them if
         | your government shoots you?
        
           | Qem wrote:
           | > They're kind of like arms manufacturers.
           | 
           | More like hired hitmen.
        
           | p_l wrote:
           | If the arms manufacturer explicitly works with unethical and
           | illegal uses of clients as main sales target, yes.
        
           | axlee wrote:
           | > The NSO is only supplying a product for which there is
           | insatiable demand from every government.
           | 
           | There is also insatiable demand for nuclear weapons, but if a
           | private company from the US started selling them to random
           | dictatorships, yes, I would blame them.
        
           | CPLX wrote:
           | Of course I do. Is your theory that manufacturing weapons of
           | war is a morally neutral occupation?
        
           | someotherperson wrote:
           | Replace NSO group's spyware with child sex slaves, reread
           | what you wrote, and then revisit your moral compass
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | And, more importantly, fuck the states that support them, and
         | the people who are complicit with them at any level.
        
         | nickysielicki wrote:
         | Why? It serves no purpose, if it wasn't them, it would be New
         | NSO Group instead. So long as these vulnerabilities exist,
         | they're going to be exploited. Every time they find an exploit
         | it's a moment of pure genius. With every new baseband and every
         | new OS update there's a good chance that they find they have no
         | answer. I don't blame the hackers in the slightest. It's also
         | not useful to blame governments.
         | 
         | More useful to blame the systemic issues that allow these
         | things to take place: the one that pops to the front of my mind
         | is that the FCC has such a high degree of standards with modems
         | that it results in a severe lack of competition. Google and
         | Apple choose to release phones without contractually demanding
         | full source access to the entirety of it so that it can be
         | audited by their security teams. Those are things that can and
         | should change.
        
       | machinekob wrote:
       | best of all they spy on their own party members and some
       | businessmen's which were rivals of some party members family
        
       | dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
       | To absolutely no one's surprise.
        
       | miohtama wrote:
       | This is what happens when democracy starts to dysfunction and the
       | ruling party wants to cling to power any means necessary.
        
       | chewz wrote:
       | Just bear in mind that this is the same Polish PM whose former
       | government set World record making requests to Apple for data
       | from 241 509 iPhones in 1H2015... (out of 300 thousand total
       | request from the entire World)...
       | 
       | Quarter milion iPhones in 2015 in Poland was basically everyone
       | who counts in public life.
       | 
       | https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/pdf/requests-2015-H...
        
         | dmortin wrote:
         | Making requests is one thing, because Apple can deny the
         | request, while using Pegasus simply hacks the phone without
         | oversight.
        
         | Szpadel wrote:
         | from your linked document:
         | 
         | *Poland: predominately requests from Customs and Revenue
         | Authorities
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-02-18 23:01 UTC)