[HN Gopher] USGS Historical Topographic Maps
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       USGS Historical Topographic Maps
        
       Author : bryanrasmussen
       Score  : 161 points
       Date   : 2024-02-18 14:12 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.esri.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.esri.com)
        
       | lvspiff wrote:
       | Whenever i see a topo map I recall my college days when I had a
       | mountaineering buddy who took us out to middle of wilderness in
       | his jeep with nothing but a topo map and a compass on a snow shoe
       | hike on the San Francisco Peaks in Flagstaff, AZ. We were trying
       | to hike to a cabin but a snow storm cropped up and had to find a
       | fast way down - his skills with a compass and that map were
       | amazing and we made it back to his jeep in 30 minutes what it had
       | taken us the previous 3 hours to hike (we had a couple of daring
       | downhill rides/jumps).
       | 
       | With GPS and all nowadays it feels like that skill might be lost,
       | but hopefully there are some guys out there daring enough to keep
       | it going to take those of us who dont know out for an adventure
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I do usually carry a paper map and compass if I'm somewhere I
         | don't know well. I have broken a phone and had the battery die
         | and am very aware that I'm a dropped phone away from being
         | utterly and completely lost.
        
           | arethuza wrote:
           | The only times I have made significant route finding mistakes
           | in the last ten years were _after_ I started using a GPS for
           | route finding - in both cases I took the wrong ridge down
           | from a peak. My wife was also in a group that managed to
           | descend completely the wrong side of a mountain the first
           | time the person leading used a GPS...
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | If you're in the wilderness you should know how to navigate
         | with map and compass, and check your gps. A no-power backup
         | could save your life.
         | 
         | This is the same reason you should know how to make a fire even
         | if you have a stove. I've had a stove fail due to dust in the
         | PRV. A fire kept us warm.
         | 
         | Be prepared.
        
         | OnACoffeeBreak wrote:
         | Local adventure racing and orienteering organizations typically
         | have beginner classes that teach map and compass navigation. At
         | least the one near me does every couple of months.
        
         | Stevvo wrote:
         | For me it was scouts; the scout master would bundle us all in
         | the back of a van at night, drive us a couple of miles in a
         | random direction and then task us to find our way back to camp
         | with nothing but a map & compass.
         | 
         | It was a real adventure; we had no idea that the troop leaders
         | were 50 meters away keeping tabs us through night-vision
         | goggles all night.
        
         | zikduruqe wrote:
         | You should see if there are orienteering courses in your area.
         | It is a fun activity. It's like playing chess while running.
         | 
         | https://orienteeringusa.org/explore/what-is-orienteering/
        
         | kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
         | Not map and compass, but the book The Natural Navigator is
         | excellent for honing your skills.
         | 
         | https://www.naturalnavigator.com/
        
       | mistrial9 wrote:
       | this is an original 90s software lock-in company, for context on
       | the deal you are accepting with their services. (see Oracle Corp)
        
         | ufocia wrote:
         | Yep, essentially a Terraserver reboot.
        
       | defrost wrote:
       | Worth it for the link to the 224 page
       | 
       |  _History of the Topographic Branch (Division)_
       | https://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/1341/pdf/circ_1341.pdf
       | 
       | with all manner of trivia including: _U.S. patents issued to U.S.
       | Geological Survey photogrammetrists_ etc.
        
         | arnmac wrote:
         | I love these USGS publications. So much history in them.
        
       | nullhole wrote:
       | The maps are available directly through the USGS as well, if you
       | want to avoid the 3rd party viewer:
       | 
       | https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer/#4/40.01/-100.06
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | The USGS's viewer is kind of odd in that unlike every other
         | online map in existence, double clicking does not zoom in. It
         | also overlays all of the maps with a weird color tint (which
         | you can fix by turning off "Turn map boundaries on or off" in
         | Settings). Both viewers annoyingly fill your browser history
         | every time you move around or change zoom levels.
         | 
         | [Edited to remove snark]
        
           | city41 wrote:
           | > Both viewers annoyingly fill your browser history every
           | time you move around or change zoom levels
           | 
           | To be fair that's not limited to map viewers. A lot of web
           | apps do that. I think finding the right balance is a bit of
           | an art.
        
           | TheRealPomax wrote:
           | Maybe let the USGS folks know? If they're anything like any
           | other department, they have one person whose job it is to
           | work on every single website, and they're not well-researched
           | web developers, they're a jack of all trade who had to learn
           | just enough tricks on a page by page basis to keep things
           | from falling apart, with a mandate to leave things alone
           | until they break.
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | Also, if USGS doesn't have the resources to improve this,
             | propose they post it as a challenge for public solutioning:
             | https://www.challenge.gov/
             | 
             | Sometimes, an agency is in need of a willing helping hand.
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | While we're at it, USGS also has the complete _current_
         | topographic maps for the entirety of US available to download:
         | 
         | https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-do-i-find-download-or-order-to...
         | 
         | https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/can-i-get-bulk-order-usgs-topograp...
         | 
         | The complete set of offline topographic maps in GeoPDF format
         | with embedded satellite image layer (that can be enabled or
         | disabled if your PDF reader can handle layers properly) is ~2.8
         | Tb.
        
       | sunshinesnacks wrote:
       | You can get these direct from USGS in KMZ, GeoTIFF, GeoPDF, and
       | JPEG format.
       | 
       | And mobile apps like Topo Reader and Avenza Maps for iOS will let
       | you load them for live referencing. I just "discovered" this
       | yesterday, by chance.
       | 
       | https://www.usgs.gov/programs/national-geospatial-program/hi...
       | 
       | https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer/#4/39.98/-99.98
        
       | iancmceachern wrote:
       | I have boxes and boxes of these in storage. A library was being
       | closed in my home state of Colorado , where the USGS is based,
       | and I couldn't let them get thrown away.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | crucial when the electricity is out for weeks! does no one any
         | good unless they can be found at that time though..
        
       | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
       | Genealogy value: Awesome for locating defunct places - the ones
       | missing from gen sites' known-locations (when you which area.
       | ex:county).
        
         | xipho wrote:
         | Biodiversity value as well. Our natural history collections
         | reference specimens that can be hundreds of years old, the
         | labels can be cryptic (see Notes for Nature efforts) and
         | reference places no longer here. Early geological survey work
         | maybe even have been accompanied by biodiversity collectors,
         | there is a nice PhD project in here somewhere to correlate the
         | two efforts.
        
       | samcheng wrote:
       | If you have a cabin or some natural spot you care about in the
       | US, I highly recommend purchasing an actual USGS paper topo map.
       | They are beautiful!
        
       | Steltek wrote:
       | Boston gets a lot of attention for its drastic changes even over
       | the past century. Comparing modern Boston to its 1893 map:
       | 
       | * All of Logan airport, Winthrop, etc simply didn't exist
       | 
       | * MIT was a mud flat
       | 
       | * South Bay was still a bay, not a shopping center
       | 
       | * Obviously pre-interstate, railroads dominate the transportation
       | focus
       | 
       | * Back Bay has already been filled in. The collection of mini-
       | street grids is apparent in Back Bay and South Boston (Southie).
       | 
       | * The isolation of the Boston peninsula is less apparent at this
       | point. E.g. Paul Revere's "one if by land, two if by sea" for the
       | British heading NW to Lexington.
        
       | cuuupid wrote:
       | Esri is an anticompetitive company leeching taxpayer dollars that
       | only exists because ArcGIS trapped the government before many
       | govcon laws preventing vendor lock in were put in place.
       | 
       | We would have 10x the mapping capabilities and much higher
       | velocity on defense tech without this parasitic company.
       | 
       | Btw, also recently fined for blatant sexism against hundreds of
       | female employees.
        
         | partitioned wrote:
         | Yeah esri sucks and it's software is worse than open source but
         | it's the only thing they teach because contracts
        
         | sien wrote:
         | The open source geospatial community is pretty amazing :
         | 
         | https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Main_Page
         | 
         | Esri in the cloud is terrible. Geoserver is much better.
         | 
         | Cloud Native Geospatial might break Esri's hold :
         | 
         | https://cloudnativegeo.org/
        
       | Soupy wrote:
       | I also have been building and offering my own UI on top of the
       | USGS collection of maps (among others in the public domain) at
       | https://pastmaps.com if anyone else finds the existing UIs
       | frustrating like I do. This is a labor of love and something I'm
       | continuing to chip away at and make better and better with time
       | 
       | Interestingly enough, I ended up discovering some incorrect data
       | in their system as part of my ingestion process 4 months ago and
       | directly worked with the USGS to both report the pipeline errors
       | causing bad output and they were incredibly prompt and open to
       | collaborating on identifying the issue and proper fix (roughly a
       | 2 week turnaround from original report to correction). I honestly
       | wonder if this 1700+ update to the ESRI collection is a direct
       | result of that work because the numbers do roughly align so that
       | would be exciting!
        
       | njarboe wrote:
       | I remember when how I got maps for cross-country hikes was to go
       | down to the Oakland library and they had a collection of all the
       | USGS quadrangle maps. The lithography of the paper maps was
       | excellent. I'd find the ones for the areas I was interested in
       | (climbing guides list which quads you should have) and Xerox the
       | parts I needed. Sometimes I would order the originals from the
       | USGS or travel to Menlo Park to purchase them at the source.
       | Those stacks of map cases and thousands of maps are now gone. I
       | would have loved to have picked up that full collection when they
       | got rid of them.
       | 
       | The large size and fine detail of a those lithographs are just
       | not reproducible on a portable screen or printout. It's great to
       | have digital versions available to everyone but the originals are
       | works of art.
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | I went on a tour of the USGS in Palo Alto in 2012. They used to
       | keep all the Bay Area Topo maps there. The curator of the museum
       | had a burning hatred for Google (which was basically across the
       | street).
       | 
       | He told us that Google is 100% to blame for the cancellation of
       | the USGS topographic maps program. Their management told him
       | "Google is capturing it all now, so we don't need to do it
       | anymore". He hated them with a burning passion because he was
       | told to turn over all of his maps to Google for digitization into
       | Google Maps because they would be shutting down the paper
       | archives that he was in charge of.
       | 
       | He wasn't mad because his job was going away (they were going to
       | reassign him anyway) -- he was mad because he felt that it wasn't
       | right for Google to be in charge of archiving and controlling
       | access to what was public information. He was also mad because
       | Google's maps weren't nearly as good as his.
       | 
       | I hope that guy is still around and happy to see that the
       | topographic maps live on and are freely available now.
        
         | Borg3 wrote:
         | Geez. Thats sad indeed. Seems management does NOT give a shit
         | about data distribution. Yeah, but all into google, and they
         | will do with it whatever thet want, even shutting it down
         | later. Stupid. I myself also have open hatetred for them. I run
         | my own maps aggregation service (Leaflet FTW!) and Im
         | aggregating service from google, openstreetmap, USGS/ESRI and
         | some local tiles provider as well. I would be glad to get even
         | more free sources (especially SAT images), but unfortunately
         | cannot find anything decent.
        
       | juliusgeo wrote:
       | I was obsessed with topographic maps as a kid--had the paper maps
       | for most of the counties in my corner of my state. Led to an
       | interest in geography, and is the reason my usernames on most
       | platforms have been my name+geo for the last two decades. You
       | could buy the quadrant maps at various general stores in my area,
       | and bought a few of the larger county maps at the PA farm show.
       | Those maps were huge--the size of a large rug, but incredibly
       | detailed (showed individual houses outside of urban areas). At
       | the time I was collecting them, the last survey had been done in
       | the 1980s, and it was interesting seeing the in-progress highways
       | marked that were at that time completely built. Looks like there
       | was a gap in the surveys between 1984 and 2010 according to
       | https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer/, but now have been
       | updated every ~3 years.
        
       | ijustlovemath wrote:
       | Anyone know how to search these maps for features? I was able to
       | locate two "secret" climbing areas I'm privy to but zooming to
       | the right location, but it would be cool to identify potential
       | future spots without just scrolling through
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-18 23:00 UTC)