[HN Gopher] Progman: X11 WM modeled after Program Manager from t...
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       Progman: X11 WM modeled after Program Manager from the Windows 3
       era
        
       Author : signa11
       Score  : 188 points
       Date   : 2024-02-17 05:05 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | tomxor wrote:
       | I'm a long time tiling window manager user but this is very
       | tempting :D
       | 
       | [edit]
       | 
       | In-case anyone else wanted to know what the exact build
       | dependencies are on Debian, 11 at least:                 build-
       | essential pkg-config libx11-dev libxft-dev libxext-dev libxpm-dev
       | libgdk-pixbuf-xlib-2.0-dev
       | 
       | Does what it says on the tin :) I'm struggling to miss mousing
       | windows around the screen though.
        
       | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
       | > Optional HiDPI scaling support to magnify icons and buttons
       | 
       | What a beautiful union of past and present:)
       | 
       | Having to manually add programs to the menu is a tradeoff; easier
       | to implement and good for control, but more work to set up as a
       | user.
       | 
       | I appreciate having reasonable keyboard shortcuts by default and
       | supporting adding more.
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | If only it could have the OS/2 1.3 look...
        
         | gecko wrote:
         | Isn't that literally just slightly different colors? I don't
         | remember meaningful differences between OS/2 1.3 and the
         | Windows 3 line. I always thought that was part of why WinOS2
         | worked well: the Win32 apps looked like the old OS/2 apps, both
         | giving them familiarity and emphasizing they were old.
        
           | SllX wrote:
           | I was curious about this and looked it up for anyone else who
           | wants to see too:
           | https://www.os2museum.com/wp/os2-history/os2-1-2-and-1-3/
           | 
           | I never used OS/2 and most of what I've seen were from the
           | final versions, so I had no idea it basically looked like
           | Windows 3.x in the earliest versions.
        
             | Narishma wrote:
             | It's the other way around. Windows 3.x looked like OS/2 1.x
        
       | mixmastamyk wrote:
       | Love the real title bars and buttons. SGI 4dwm had one of the
       | best of this style.
       | 
       | But I happen to like the taskbar from 95+.
        
         | mysterydip wrote:
         | Sounds like someone needs to make a "windows 3.1 with calmira"
         | wm: http://www.calmira.net/screenshots/gaby_c.htm
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | Forgot to mention the draggable window edges that you can see.
        
       | h4ch1 wrote:
       | https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/7b707c32dcf0842c55de29...
       | 
       | https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/024a5d086657a70b5303d1...
       | 
       | https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/3a427653be2d5117e162da...
       | 
       | I'd be giving these commit messages as examples of great commit
       | messages.
       | 
       | Honorable mention xd:
       | https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/bd91f0f091c4656c246e7d...
        
       | progman32 wrote:
       | Finally I can fulfill my username's destiny and compile a 32 bit
       | version of this. If this supported virtual desktops I might
       | actually daily drive this on my laptop.
        
         | Dalewyn wrote:
         | Fun trivia of the day: Program Manager existed as a 32-bit
         | binary from Windows NT 3.1 through Windows XP SP1.
         | 
         | Yes, you could get Windows XP SP1 to boot into Program Manager
         | instead of Explorer if you so desired, and I would wager
         | probably through Windows 10 32-bit too if you copied over the
         | required files.
        
           | BirAdam wrote:
           | I actually used that too, and then SP2 blew it away, so I
           | left Windows for Linux.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | It says it comes with 10 virtual desktops out of the box. Use
         | <alt> + [1..0] or scroll on the desktop.
        
           | progman32 wrote:
           | I shouldn't post in the middle of the night. My bad. I'll
           | check it out!
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | Heh, no problems. To err is human, after all. Hope you
             | enjoy it. :)
        
         | EasyMark wrote:
         | would be fun on airplanes or coffee shops where bored people
         | will look at your screen and see how many conversations you can
         | strike up :D
        
       | remoquete wrote:
       | Of course it has Hot Dog Stand as a theme. :-)
        
       | peter-m80 wrote:
       | Would love a wm with the BeOS look
        
         | gattilorenz wrote:
         | Well, not a wm, but would a theme for XFCE interest you?
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/90gx5u/xfce4_beos...
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | The /r/unixporn is a really weird place, in this case it's
           | XFCE, so I feel like it makes more sense, but the most riced
           | up desktops people post are always Sway, i3, dwm and similar.
           | They are minimalist window managers, yet people go out of
           | their way to customize them.
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | Can we avoid xenophobic slangs please?
        
               | mrweasel wrote:
               | Sure, wasn't actually aware that it was xenophobic, still
               | not really sure why it is. What you would suggest as an
               | equally colorful and descriptive?
        
               | jpk wrote:
               | I assume you're referring to "rice". In the car scene, it
               | stands for "race inspired cosmetic enhancement" and it's
               | typically used to refer to things that make a car look
               | fast without actually making it so. (Think big spoilers,
               | non-functional intake scoops, etc.).
               | 
               | The term is used here to express a similar sentiment; a
               | desktop environment that's made to take pretty
               | screenshots but not necessarily be more functional, or
               | enhance a certain workflow.
        
         | sprash wrote:
         | Almost every skinnable WM has a BeOS theme.
         | 
         | Pekwm has my favourite BeOS theme
         | (https://www.pekwm.se/themes/benu.html) because it supports
         | window grouping flawlessly, which turns every window into a
         | potential tab just by dragging.
        
       | wkat4242 wrote:
       | This is basically how the first releases of fvwm worked :) in
       | fact most early window managers.
        
         | hulitu wrote:
         | Most early window managers, including fvwm, were configurable,
         | with few hardcoded defaults.
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | I approve of this UI.
        
       | Ezhik wrote:
       | I wonder if there's a pixel-perfect Win95 WM out there.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | This poor soul has been maintaining Fvwm95 all on their own:
         | https://flaterco.com/util/index.html
        
         | fsiefken wrote:
         | XFCE total conversion https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95
         | 
         | Chicago was the code name for the development version of the
         | highly anticipated Windows95
        
       | massifist wrote:
       | I has always assumed Program Manager's window decorations were
       | inspired by Motif but apparently it was the other way around,
       | regarding Presentation Manager; Program Manager's ancestor.
       | 
       | "Motif was directly inspired by the look and feel of the
       | Presentation Manager interface"
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_Manager#Presentat...
        
         | cmrdporcupine wrote:
         | In this day and age I think the mock-3d stuff in Motif looks
         | gaudier than the classic look of both the Win 3.11 interface
         | and the OS/2 Presentation Manager.
        
         | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
         | There's a Computer Chronicles episode somewhere on YouTube
         | (doubtless also on archive.org in higher quality) where a
         | Microsoft rep shows off Windows 3's user interface, and they
         | outright say it looks like Presentation Manager, so it'll
         | prepare users for OS/2. Back when MS hadn't decided to kill
         | OS/2!
        
       | qwertfisch wrote:
       | This is the window managing part which handles decoration and
       | displays running applications as desktop icons if minimized.
       | 
       | But where is the Program Manager?
        
         | gattilorenz wrote:
         | I suspect this commit is for you :)
         | https://github.com/jcs/progman/commit/bd91f0f091c4656c246e7d...
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | It would surprisingly fit some 2020s aesthetic trends (or maybe
       | we're just cycling)
        
       | badsectoracula wrote:
       | This is neat but, TBH, i expected a recreation of the actual
       | _Program Manager_ (i.e. the launcher with the groups and icons)
       | :-P
       | 
       | AFAIK back in the 90s there was some (proprietary, i think) Motif
       | based program that looked very similar to Program Manager and
       | some Linux distributions bundled it.
       | 
       | It'd be trivial to make something like it with -e.g.- Lazarus,
       | especially if the subwindows/MDI part isn't needed and instead
       | launch toplevel windows (which IMO is a better idea anyway as you
       | can nest them, something i always felt was missing from the
       | Win3.x Program Manager).
       | 
       | EDIT: for fun i tried to setup a Win3.1 theme for Gtk and put
       | Lazarus (in a separate user account) with this window manager. It
       | looks nice[0] though the WM seems to be lacking support for some
       | common features for setting up window appearance (e.g. the
       | completion window in the screenshot has a frame when it shouldn't
       | and the window doesn't disappear but instead its contents become
       | black - this happens for any window that is expected to remain
       | around but hidden).
       | 
       | https://i.imgur.com/Hpieb0g.png
        
         | rogerbinns wrote:
         | The company I worked at IXI [1] was the leading provider of
         | Motif. We took the official release, fixed all the bugs,
         | documented it, and sold it with most companies using Unix
         | workstations buying licenses. We also did better versions of
         | the window manager and file/program manager.
         | 
         | We had a product named Wintif that gave the Windows 3 look and
         | feel to any Unix program using Motif, without any code changes
         | to the program. The theory was you would display the Unix
         | programs on a Windows PC running an X server, and they would
         | look and feel like native Windows programs. See a glorious
         | screenshot at [2] where all the programs and window manager are
         | running on Unix using Wintif.
         | 
         | What happened is the Unix workstation market and hence Unix GUI
         | applications rapidly diminished in favour of native Windows
         | applications, with web applications taking off (and what we
         | pivoted to). You'll notice the screenshot includes our version
         | of Mosaic - the first mainstream web browser.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IXI_Limited
         | 
         | [2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/avaragado/5334440376/
        
         | euroclear wrote:
         | Caldera Linux included Looking Glass[1] which was vaguely
         | Windows-like and commercial. Not sure if that's what you were
         | thinking of.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_Glass_(UNIX_desktop)
        
           | squarefoot wrote:
           | Doesn't look that different from Motif/CDE, they were
           | ubiquitous back in the day.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif_(software)
        
       | haolez wrote:
       | On a side note, I wonder if Wayland made it more difficult to
       | have this kind of silly experimentation. X11, despite the
       | legendary bad code quality, is a big leverage for lone coder.
        
       | philsnow wrote:
       | I have used Mac laptops as my daily driver for the last ten years
       | after being a ride-or-die Linux guy for the 15 years before that.
       | 
       | I'm still more comfortable on Linux systems, though. Some things
       | I dearly miss, in no particular order:
       | 
       | 1) complete control over window management, an embarrassment of
       | riches in terms of amazing and wacky window managers
       | 
       | 2) {s,p, (and much later) d}trace; there are probably similar
       | tools on Mac but I don't need them badly enough to find and learn
       | them --- but I know just enough about them in Linux-land to
       | investigate frustrating things
       | 
       | ... I thought there would be more when I started typing, but that
       | might be it.
        
         | graphe wrote:
         | Try this. https://github.com/chipsenkbeil/choose
        
       | animatethrow wrote:
       | Nowadays how well are old-school X11 window managers doing
       | necessary interop with the desktop bus to keep modern GTK/QT apps
       | rendering correctly on 4K HiDPI screens? I was forced to give up
       | on FVWM because tweaking my X resources Xft.dpi and GDK_SCALE
       | settings for one app such as firefox in order to get it rendering
       | correctly on a 4K screen would break other apps. Firefox only
       | seemed to do HiDPI correctly when run under a full GNOME desktop
       | that provides the dbus messages it is assuming to set the 200%
       | font size and UI scale correctly. Is there a way to run an old-
       | school X11 WM now that allows snaps/flatpacks/GNOME-bloat dbus
       | apps to run without issue with 200% scaling on 4K screens?
        
       | peter_d_sherman wrote:
       | Looks nice and simple (a good thing, not a bad thing) -- which
       | would make it excellent for educational purposes (as well as
       | tiny/embedded and/or highly secure systems)!
       | 
       | Kudos on the work!
       | 
       | Great job!
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-17 23:01 UTC)