[HN Gopher] Solar and Batteries Make Up 81% of New US Electric-G...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Solar and Batteries Make Up 81% of New US Electric-Generating
       Capacity in 2024
        
       Author : toomuchtodo
       Score  : 19 points
       Date   : 2024-02-15 21:45 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cleantechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cleantechnica.com)
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | A neat trend. But still renewables are a small fraction of
       | electrical generation capacity in the US. Dominated by gas, even
       | the renewable slice (< 20%) is dominated by hydroelectric. Which
       | hasn't changed in 50 years, even gone down a bit. Second is wind.
       | Solar is a scrap of a scrap.
       | 
       | A long, long way to go to complete renewable energy.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights...
         | ("US Interconnection Queues Analysis 2023")
         | 
         | https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=55960
         | ("Renewable generation surpassed coal and nuclear in the U.S.
         | electric power sector in 2022")
         | 
         | https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/11/02/u-s-to-deploy-550-gw-...
         | ("U.S. to deploy 550 GW of new renewables by 2030")
         | 
         | China deployed more solar last year than total US solar
         | generation capacity, so while work, it can be done.
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-installed-sol...
         | ("The country built in excess of 216 gigawatts (GW) of solar
         | power this year, the data indicated, underscoring the scale and
         | pace of China's solar build out.")
         | 
         | Currently, the U.S. PV manufacturing industry has the capacity
         | to produce PV modules to meet nearly a third of US domestic
         | demand.
         | 
         | https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/solar-manufacturing
        
           | nateglims wrote:
           | The second link is interesting since it covers actual
           | generated energy. The others are kind of convoluted and need
           | to be more clear on what the capacity measurement is since
           | most renewables have significantly lower capacity factors
           | than nuke, gas and coal.
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | Which is why the battery uptake mentioned in this piece is
             | of note. It firms renewables and steals grid service
             | revenue from thermal generators. Pulls the uptake
             | trajectory of renewables closer to vertical.
             | 
             | Only one coal fired generator in the US is currently
             | economical to run vs new renewables.
             | 
             | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-07/end-of-
             | co... | https://archive.today/2owbd
             | 
             | https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/30/us-coal-
             | more...
        
         | ThisIsMyAltAcct wrote:
         | I think wind dominates hydropower now
         | 
         | https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | Say you don't understand exponential growth without saying you
         | don't understand exponential growth.
        
           | JoeAltmaier wrote:
           | There's no way solar can grow geometrically for long. It
           | consumes real estate like there's no tomorrow. Land is
           | limited; sunlight is limited. It has a hard, hard limit.
           | 
           | Unlike many other kinds of power generation, which are land-
           | frugal and work 24 hours a day.
           | 
           | So, let's rethink who doesn't understand growth.
        
       | balderdash wrote:
       | I think the promising thing is that as we get more batteries on
       | the grid, it will enable more renewables penetration as a
       | percentage of the grid as a whole
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Yes, absolutely, this compound effect is very important. Also
         | interesting is that with every EV that gets added to the grid
         | this effect improves even for the ones that can't deliver the
         | power back later if it is economical to do so. They effectively
         | serve as capacitors.
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | That's nice, but there is a long way to go, also it would
       | probably be better to see batteries as a part of the 'storage'
       | bracket, after all the batteries don't generate electricity, they
       | store it. It's a bit like lumping fields of grain in with bags
       | for grain. The one is useful all by itself, the other can't
       | function without some other generator doing its job first.
       | 
       | Typically the use for storage in the form of batteries is to play
       | arbitrage with power prices around solar noon to farm it back out
       | again when power is more expensive, for instance early evening or
       | the next morning. Longer term storage also works but tends to be
       | more capital expensive and isn't really an option just yet,
       | though there are some edge cases where it may already work on
       | (slightly) longer timescales.
        
         | danielheath wrote:
         | > The one [solar] is useful all by itself
         | 
         | Not in a power-grid context; it'll over-volt the grid sometimes
         | and under-volt it other times.
         | 
         | In the specific context of "understanding generation supply to
         | a grid", working in terms of "load supplied by a system of
         | solar & batteries" makes the math drastically simpler.
        
       | auspiv wrote:
       | Nice headline but batteries do not generate electricity
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | _" The Gemini solar facility in Nevada plans to begin operating
       | in 2024. With a planned photovoltaic capacity of 690 megawatts
       | (MW) and battery storage of 380 MW, it is expected to be the
       | largest solar project in the United States when fully
       | operational."_
       | 
       | That's about 60% of the capacity of one unit at Vogtle nuclear
       | power station, and Vogtle has four units.
       | 
       | Also, adding the solar capacity to the battery capacity to get a
       | gigawatt makes no sense. Either you're charging the battery,
       | which takes power from the solar array, or you're discharging the
       | battery because it's dark and the solar array is idle.
        
         | bryanlarsen wrote:
         | Gemini took 2 years and cost $1.3B. Vogtle cost $34B for 2
         | units and took 12 years for those 2 units.
         | 
         | Edit: Gemini took 4 years from project submission and 2 years
         | from construction start. Vogtle took 19 years from project
         | submission and 12 years from construction start.
        
           | exoverito wrote:
           | In large part because of constantly shifting requirements,
           | obstructionism, and various forms of lawfare. The US has
           | become terribly inefficient at large infrastructural
           | projects, see the CA HSR project which is massively delayed
           | and over budget. China does not have this problem, and has
           | been rapidly expanding their nuclear capacity.
           | 
           | A standardized reactor design and regulatory certainty would
           | enable the economies of scale and accrual of institutional
           | knowledge to efficiently build new power plants. In response
           | to the 1973 oil crisis, France massively expanded their fleet
           | of nuclear reactors which were producing more than 70% of
           | their electricity in about 15 years. If the political will is
           | there, it can be done.
        
             | bryanlarsen wrote:
             | Gemini also qualifies as a large infrastructural project;
             | it was delayed by concerns about the tortoises living in
             | the area and challenges from local environmental groups.
             | 
             | China does similar projects in about 6 months. IOW, China
             | does solar projects about 8X as fast as the US. OTOH it
             | does nuclear projects in about 5 years, about 4X as fast as
             | the US.
        
         | i_am_proteus wrote:
         | I agree that summing the two values to a GW seems disingenuous,
         | but there are more scenarios than the two you described.
         | 
         | For instance, it's possible to discharge the battery during the
         | day, as well. If peak load is in the afternoon, the plant could
         | be charging the battery during the morning and mid-day when
         | specific demand on that plant is less than 690 MW, then
         | discharge the battery to have (temporary) output of 1 GW.
        
       | barney54 wrote:
       | Batteries are not generating capacity.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-02-15 23:01 UTC)