[HN Gopher] F-Zero courses from a dead Nintendo satellite servic...
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F-Zero courses from a dead Nintendo satellite service restored
using VHS and AI
Author : ramn7
Score : 369 points
Date : 2024-02-13 09:15 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| ByQuyzzy wrote:
| Actual link to content here:
|
| https://archive.org/details/bs_f-zero_deluxe_v1.0
| charcircuit wrote:
| I would say recreated is a more appropriate term.
| westurner wrote:
| F-Zero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-Zero :
|
| > _F-Zero begins in the year 2560 where the humanses ' countless
| encounters with alien life forms throughout the universe greatly
| expanded Earth's social framework resulting in_ [...]
| stonogo wrote:
| "Humanses"? Even if it weren't mistranscribed that's not a
| particularly useful excerpt.
|
| F-Zero is a futuristic racing game series from Nintendo.
| mock-possum wrote:
| Odd excerpt... ai summary bot?
| bhtru wrote:
| Likely a typo, I don't see it on the wiki page anymore
| westurner wrote:
| Nope, an odd transcription error that resulted from
| censorship and harassment actually
| hifikuno wrote:
| DidYouKnowGaming did a great video on this:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDcrM706gws
|
| My favourite part is where they used specialty software to
| recreate the button presses on the video with frame-perfect
| precision, and from that was able to recreate course layouts.
| rideontime wrote:
| DidYouKnowGaming has been on such a tear for the past few
| years, ever since Dr. Lava joined them. They've gone from
| aggregator to legitimate researchers, making substantial
| contributions to the video game history & preservation scene,
| putting in the work to translate materials previously unknown
| outside of Japan and track down & interview game devs. I
| realize I sound like a shill, I'm just really impressed at how
| far they've come from the old tumblr blog posting fun facts
| back in the day.
| askiiart wrote:
| Huh, really? I never watched them because it was just
| aggregation stuff, but I guess I'll have to give them another
| try.
| karmelapple wrote:
| I concur with the previous poster: they've really impressed
| me with the research they've done. It used to be fun but
| not revelatory... but stuff like this? Pretty wild!
| noirscape wrote:
| Yeah they've come a long way from just reading off facts
| from TCRF.
|
| Nowadays they do plenty of original research into these
| sorts of topics.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| This is really fascinating
|
| We should have events like this where games are altered
| substantially with external inputs like this
|
| I know of several modern examples where sound is used to transmit
| saves and other rudimentary things, but no hosted events or games
| ready to accept those hosted events as input
|
| online matchmaking and "seasons" might be better for the
| companies for now, but I think this would just be more fun
| Terr_ wrote:
| From when this was previously posted two days ago:
|
| > For the JRPG fans, Satellview was also used in a Squaresoft
| game called Radical Dreamers, a kind of side story for the much
| better-known Chrono trigger. Since it's been re-released, it's
| not quite so big of a target for preservationists though.
|
| > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Dreamers
| crims0n wrote:
| And also served as the inspiration for the "true" sequel,
| Chrono Cross. I have fond memories of emulating Radical
| Dreamers on my Pentium 1.
| p1mrx wrote:
| Here is FlibidyDibidy's "every Super Mario Bros. speedrun all at
| once" video mentioned in the article:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NisWoTNyfeU&t=70s
| echelon wrote:
| That's amazing, and I want that for every speedrun now.
| eru wrote:
| It might be a lot harder for games that aren't side
| scrollers.
|
| Though I would like to see someone try for eg Elden Ring.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| You'd need to render all the player ghosts into a single
| world and then have a "god view" camera that pulled out
| enough to focus on the handful at the front.
|
| Would be interesting figuring out how to render
| enemies/npcs with that, but it might not really matter--
| especially for a game where the route is well understood,
| everyone knows exactly what is going on just from watching
| the main character's actions.
| echelon wrote:
| I would watch that! Especially if the leader(s) could be
| highlighted or focused.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| I love how you can visually see the effect of the frame rule
| clumping players together in each new level.
| vinnymac wrote:
| The fact that a $5k bounty still exists for the original makes
| you wonder where the copy is going to be found.
|
| What content is being produced today that we will offer a $25k
| dollar bounty for in 50 years? Perhaps something in Roblox or
| Minecraft?
| Kye wrote:
| At least that much could have gone into the effort to find the
| seed for the Minecraft splash screen world.
| maxden wrote:
| there' s already a $500 bounty for an early roblox client.
|
| https://robloxopolis.com/2006-roblox-bounty/
| imiric wrote:
| > What content is being produced today that we will offer a
| $25k dollar bounty for in 50 years?
|
| Take your pick from any game that requires an online service to
| exist. 30 years ago that was mostly unheard of, but today it's
| a growing trend. Content is locked behind DRM, proprietary
| launchers, game stores, licensing agreements, subscription
| services, etc. Even single player content is not safe. It's
| absolutely insidious.
|
| I bought a digital copy of Max Payne 3 a mere 10 years ago, and
| can no longer play it because Rockstar's launcher has somehow
| been unlinked from my Steam account, and refuses to start the
| game. I spent 3 months in a back and forth with their "support"
| team, and after automated messages telling me to upload
| everything from receipts, CD keys, and Steam screenshots, and
| still failing to verify that I'm a legitimate customer who
| wants to access the content I paid for, I just gave up.
|
| The only way to preserve these games is via piracy. And
| sometimes even that can't save a game with heavily embedded DRM
| or reliance on servers.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| >And sometimes even that can't save a game with heavily
| embedded DRM or reliance on servers. //
|
| A game that can't enter the public domain represents a breach
| of the copyright 'contract': monopoly for a limited (ahem!)
| time in exchange for enrichment of the pubic domain.
|
| A company that leaves the pubic domain with no DRM free
| version, or no otherwise playable game, got copyright
| protection gratis. They owe the public the extra value they
| got from copyright. For companies that are part of MPAA/RIAA
| that means the full selling price, apparently.
|
| Companies/C-suite doing this should be taken in hand and
| forced to return to the public any monies gained by use of
| copyright (for the DRM-ed works not able to enter the PD).
| And the same metric should be used for infringements, so if
| they claim they get no benefit from copyright then
| infringement damages will be zero too.
|
| Of course a company could say "servers will be available for
| 10 years" up front, that would seem reasonable, but the game
| would still need to have a DRM-free copy available for the
| public domain.
| schlauerfox wrote:
| I would support a sort of source code/content 'escrow'
| system for modern copyright registration. This stuff burns
| away into the ether now. If the library of congress had to
| receive a copy of the source code for any software it would
| be a big boon to future preservation and history. They'd
| fight like hell to stop it though.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| I read the article, but failed to understand what the satellite
| service was. Did they "stream". Was like twitch? Or did they
| stream a game over satellite and player could play while game
| data was being streamed?
|
| If the latter, how did the voice over work?
| InvisibleUp wrote:
| The latter. According to this wiki I found [1] the audio was
| muxed in with the program data, and then separated by the
| Satellaview satellite box. This audio would then get mixed in
| with the Super Famicom's audio output and sent to the TV.
|
| [1] https://wiki.superfamicom.org/satellaview-soundlink
| a1o wrote:
| The Satellaview service was a cartridge plus service combo that
| gave access to small games you could play on the SNES.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellaview
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellaview#/media/File%3ASa...
|
| There are ROMS available online for some games that existed and
| there are lists of all games, from the above I think the person
| found VHS footage from people playing the SNES with some
| specific f-zero tracks and from knowledge of the existing ROMs
| of f-zero used the VHS footage to reconstruct the track data,
| which I think is mostly tile positions, at least afaik the
| Satellaview games that were additions to existing games usually
| didn't add graphics only remixed what the game content was.
|
| I think I remember playing a Zelda that was just the map from
| the NES one with different objectives, so I am going from that.
| kmeisthax wrote:
| Game data would be downloaded ahead of time; the Satellaview
| came with a game cartridge[0] that gave you a system menu in
| the form of a JRPG town that looked a bit like EarthBound's
| Onett. It also had a second slot on the BS-X cartridge that
| accepted a memory card for storing game downloads onto.
|
| For SoundLink games, the voiceovers would be streamed from a
| satellite radio channel while the game ran, and they could also
| issue game commands. Obviously this also meant you could only
| play a SoundLink game while it was being broadcast. There were
| periodic reruns in case you missed a game. The closest modern
| example I could think of would actually be something like 1 vs
| 100 on the Xbox 360, which only lasted for like a year if I
| remember.
|
| Other downloadable Satellaview games worked _almost exactly_
| like a modern digital download system. You 'd have to download
| the game while it was being broadcast, but could play it later.
| Except some of them would also have a start-up limit (like 3DS
| demos) after which the game would expire and refuse to start.
| Those are easier to preserve than the SoundLink games,
| _assuming_ you can find an old Satellaview memory pack with the
| game data still on it.
|
| Some of the 'games' were actually just magazines or text.
| There's some _really odd_ ones we 've discovered over the
| years. After Nintendo stopped supporting Satellaview[1],
| St.GIGA tried to repurpose the Satellaview as a program guide
| for their own satellite radio service using this feature.
|
| Interestingly, there's a handful of SNES games with the same
| Satellaview memory slot on them that BS-X does - for example,
| RPG Maker 2[2]. I'm imagining that they distributed RPG Maker
| games using Satellaview, but Wikipedia also says RPG Maker 2
| was available as both a cartridge and a Satellaview download,
| which seems like it defeats the purpose of having the cartridge
| also accept Satellaview memory cards.
|
| BTW, if you think this is crazy, wait until you learn about the
| SEGA Channel, a cable modem that plugged into your Genesis[3].
|
| [0] _BS-X: The Story Of The Town Whose Name Was Stolen_
|
| [1] Because, among other things, they wanted to build the N64
| DD around RANDNet
|
| [2] Not to be confused with RPG Maker 2 on the PlayStation 2,
| which is actually RPG Maker _5_ , because international
| numbering.
|
| [3] Or Mega Drive. I didn't even know Europe had this until I
| checked Wikipedia!
| gmtree wrote:
| holey moley that's amazing
| pjmlp wrote:
| Back the 8 bit days there were radios that used to
| broadcast cassete tunes from ZX Spectrum and C64, if you
| were really lucky recording it, you would get a new game.
| MacNCheese23 wrote:
| For me this isnt that much "wow" - maybe for younger people?
| I mean 1995-96 is already pretty late for the Satellaview and
| SNES.
|
| 96 was already the time i played MMOs on my PC like Meridian
| 59 with real multiplayer and downloaded from the internet
| using a 14k/28k/56k modem in that order.
| nosrepa wrote:
| I had the Sega Channel and I loved it.
| phire wrote:
| It mostly acted like a digital storefront, or more an xbox
| gamepass of the 90s.
|
| Except instead of down games over an internet connection, it
| only had one-way communication. The satellite would just
| continually retransmit the same games every few min. When you
| selected a game to download, the Satellaview would wait for the
| next transmission to come around and save it to the 1MB flash
| card.
|
| You could then play the downloaded game more or less like any
| other cartridge. Many releases were just games that had
| previously been on retail cartridge.
|
| But some games (these soundlink games) were more of an event.
| Instead of simply downloading the game, there was a scheduled
| hour to tune in, and everyone would play the same game in
| parallel, with roughly the same progression. New game data
| would beamed down from the satellite continually, bypassing the
| 1MB limit. Most of this streaming data was CD quality audio,
| either narration (often live preformed narration) or music, but
| it could also stream code or graphics too.
|
| I understand it did have some ability to handle multiple tracks
| of audio, but most of the time the game was designed to work
| with only one track of audio, hence forcing the players down
| the same progression based on time.
| thret wrote:
| That's a pretty cool concept given that it was almost 30
| years ago!
| retrac wrote:
| Oh, the idea is even older. In 1980, video games downloaded
| over cable TV, was tested in a few US cities.
| Intellivision! Same basic idea. Cable service allowed very
| fast (1 Mbit/s approximately) transmission for the time, so
| games could transfer in seconds: :
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayCable
|
| And Sega offered something similar in the USA in the early
| 1990s too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Channel
|
| I think Satellaview in Japan, was the first service of that
| kind, which was truly successful though.
| jerf wrote:
| More than 30 years ago. Believe it or not, the
| Intellivision has the same service, using the same basic
| technique in 1981:
|
| https://www.intvprime.com/intellivision-faq/intellivision-
| fa...
|
| https://www.intvfunhouse.com/mattel/playcable.php
|
| (The Atari 2600 got a competitor but despite being the
| older console it was released in 1983:
| https://www.wired.com/story/streaming-games-actually-
| started... )
|
| So, 43 years ago.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Some B747s also came with F-zero on the seatback entertainment
| system. I think this was also a special version as I don't
| imagine they mounted a super nes under every seat :)
| JonathonW wrote:
| This was the Nintendo Gateway System, and it looks like there
| really was SNES hardware at each seat (actually physically
| combined for each group of two or three seats, but installed at
| the seats, not some central location):
| http://videogamekraken.com/nintendo-gateway-system
|
| Also related to the LodgeNet system that showed up on hotels
| around the same time, although that did use a centralized set
| of SNES cards rather than SNES hardware for each room.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| > actually physically combined for each group of two or three
| seats
|
| So from this group only one passenger could use the service?
| I never realised this (and I only tried it for a short while
| because I was never a big fan of Nintendo).
|
| But interesting, I didn't know that. I did notice that one
| time part of the entertainment system crashed (videos didn't
| work and some stuff even showed a typical Windowsy blue-
| screen) but the SNES stuff did still work.
|
| I didn't have to pay anything for it by the way, no $4 per
| hour. I did notice the controller had a slide reader for a
| credit card, but it was not needed. I do think it was used
| for the phone calls though which was combined on the same
| controller.
| gambiting wrote:
| No, if you read the article it says one device was
| installed for a group of 2-3 seats, and each device
| combined 3 Super Nintendos on the same card - so all 3
| seats could play at the same time.
| cjrp wrote:
| Fond memories of playing Super Mario World on the TV
| (presumably via LodgeNet) at La Quinta :D
| somat wrote:
| I am convinced f-zero and metroid are in the same universe, in
| the core you have big cities, the ultimate motor-sport, and
| bounty-hunters like capt falcon, on the periphery, dead
| civilizations, space pirates, and bounty hunters like Samus
| Aaron.
|
| Now, admittedly, this is mainly based on them being based in the
| far future and having the same art style. But you have to admit
| Samus would not look out of place racing in Big-Blue
| deebosong wrote:
| My world is richer for reading this. I absolutely can see it.
| Like Redline meets Cowboy Bebop. Both can be b-side vignettes
| in a larger futuristic SNES world. Not so sure about Star Fox
| being in the mix, but not entirely out of the question either.
| But F-Zero & Metroid is a wonderful pairing.
| skhr0680 wrote:
| James McCloud already exists in the F Zero universe
| zwirbl wrote:
| They really went all out with the Star Fox references
| RajT88 wrote:
| Not the same guy, just a reference. He's human, not animal.
|
| BUT - Samus and Kirby take place in the same universe:
|
| https://kirby.fandom.com/wiki/Samus
|
| Although if every cameo means that it's the same
| universe...
|
| https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_cameos_and_crossove
| r...
| birracerveza wrote:
| Huh, that is an interesting take.
|
| Also laughed at Samus Aaron.
| bobsmith432 wrote:
| Good thinking. Like how Portal and Half-Life are in the same
| universe. I'm also pretty sure most Rockstar games (Max Payne,
| Midnight Club, GTA, Red Dead Redemption) all happen in the same
| universe as well.
| nullify88 wrote:
| Max Payne is part of the Remedy Connected Universe together
| with Alan Wake, and Control
| anthk wrote:
| MP, Alan Wake and Control surely they do.
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| Samus Aran retired from bounty hunting and joined Captain
| Falcon on the racing circuit; this is mostly kinda sorta canon.
| throwitaway222 wrote:
| This can only be true if the owners of these universes say so.
| Because there is no authority otherwise.
| King1st wrote:
| according to the Anime Captain falcon gets his power from Jesus
| Christ. Im not even joking.
| andrewclunn wrote:
| https://hard-drive.net/hd/video-games/sakurai-confirms-
| capta...
| jordigh wrote:
| r/atetheonion
| emp_ wrote:
| Every time I hit back on an Ars article Linus is giving me the
| middle finger
| thesuitonym wrote:
| It's wild to me to see F-Zero on the front page of... well
| anything. It's a really fun racing game with a hilariously cheesy
| story, dripping in 80s glam-rock visuals.
| d--b wrote:
| F-Zero was fun, I spent a lot of time on it. I really liked to
| find shortcuts by boosting just before a jump and trying to land
| on a completely different part of the track. But it was so
| annoying that you couldn't outrun other opponents. You could do
| the perfect race, but if you made the slightest mistake in the
| last lap, the 2nd would be right there on your tail.
| vimsee wrote:
| I think you are refering to the [0] "rubberband effect". I also
| played this game a lot. Great memories.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_banding
| lloeki wrote:
| Indeed, in that case "rubberbanding" doesn't quite describe
| it as it involves giving a boost to the laggards (e.g IIRC in
| Sega Rally 1v1 second-ranked car max speed would get a very
| obvious +20kph plus a slight boost to grip).
|
| Instead it might be the most egregious case of quantum tunnel
| rubberbanding: you could cut a ton of corners and they would
| still be _right behind you_ , I presume the opponents don't
| run the course at uncapped speeds but are instead hard-warped
| right behind you every so often, with the illusion preserved
| as you can't look back when you move forward (although
| there's a map but it's mostly a progress bar and most of -
| all? - the time it shows only you).
|
| Would be interesting to rev-eng the code implementing it or
| even have some PoV hack to witness it first hand.
|
| You can outrun them on GBA though, the opponent is visible on
| the map:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltO5KjWsFd4
|
| EDIT: looks like I'm wrong, crazy custom tracks have the
| opponent still run the course, e.g:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toumKYIqnss
|
| ... or maybe not _entirely_ wrong!:
|
| - this shows buggy warping
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR7hIo-s-KA
|
| - there's just no way the IA can navigate this track, yet at
| ~2:38 suddenly the opponent is right behind!
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ba7wrrxFk
| bowsamic wrote:
| Anything Satellaview related is endlessly interesting to me
| emsixteen wrote:
| I'm glad for this article and these comments. How I've never
| heard of Satellaview or Sega Channel before now I'll never know,
| but fascinating to find out about!
| furyg3 wrote:
| If you're an F-zero fan, like me, Nintendo has done a really good
| job taking the original game and turning it into a large scale
| multiplayer game with F-zero 99.
| Narishma wrote:
| Somewhat off-topic but one thing I noticed in the article's
| videos is the stark difference in visuals between the emulated
| game and the old VHS recording. Even though the image is much
| sharper and cleaner, it somehow looks uglier to me compared to
| the fuzzy recording.
| deaddodo wrote:
| This is what many retrogamers say. It's because CRT was more
| forgiving and generally fuzzier in its presentation, so gave
| softer/higher-def _feeling_ visuals.
|
| Watching on a pixel-perfect LCD quickly reveals all of the
| flaws.
| nubinetwork wrote:
| I could swear that I've played the bsx version before... did the
| dump get lost? Maybe I'm just misremembering for another bsx
| game.
|
| Unfortunately I don't have the file anymore if I did, because I
| lost the mdadm array it was stored on in 2011.
|
| Edit: I didn't realize there were two for the bsx... it was
| probably the first one that I had.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| Actual article: https://www.pressthebuttons.com/2024/02/lost-
| satellaview-f-z...
| throw4847285 wrote:
| The Satellaview was incredible. To think that technology not
| dissimilar to Sirius satellite radio was used to allow people to
| download games, stream voice acting tracks, plus there was a
| whole Mii-like system of avatars. All in the mid-90s.
| NickC25 wrote:
| I wish Nintendo would give us another F-Zero game. F-Zero X and
| F-Zero GX/AX were wonderful games. I know it probably won't be
| super profitable and the brand recognition isn't at the level of
| Nintendo's heavy hitters like Mario, Zelda, & Pokemon, but still
| would be pretty cool to see a new one, especially if they were
| able to modernize the random track creator that was in F-Zero X.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| If you're on PC and want to scratch the high-speed hovercraft
| racing itch, Redout is worth consideration.
|
| https://store.steampowered.com/app/517710/Redout_Enhanced_Ed...
|
| https://store.steampowered.com/app/1799930/Redout_2/
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