[HN Gopher] Amazon Sued over Prime Video Ads: Class-Action Suit ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Amazon Sued over Prime Video Ads: Class-Action Suit Alleges
       Deception
        
       Author : speckx
       Score  : 132 points
       Date   : 2024-02-14 19:54 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (variety.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (variety.com)
        
       | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
       | "But last month, Amazon changed the deal. To stream movies and TV
       | shows without ads, Amazon customers must now pay an additional
       | $2.99 per month... This is not fair, because these subscribers
       | already paid for the ad-free version; these subscribers should
       | not have to pay an additional $2.99/month for something that they
       | already paid for."
       | 
       | Seems like a pretty solid case where they altered the deal in the
       | midst of a one year Prime contract. I look forward to the
       | eventual $.32 settlement I receive.
        
         | johnnyo wrote:
         | The article mentions the ads are expected to bring in $3
         | billion annually.
         | 
         | Even if the lawsuit is successful, I suspect it will cost
         | Amazon much less than what they are projecting to make.
        
           | diggan wrote:
           | > Even if the lawsuit is successful, I suspect it will cost
           | Amazon much less than what they are projecting to make.
           | 
           | What's the point then? It appears only lawyers stand to gain
           | from this, as usual.
           | 
           | As soon as fines and legal infractions are viewed merely as
           | the 'cost of doing business', enforcing regulations becomes
           | futile. At that point, might as well transition to a 'free
           | for all' market rather than maintain a faux judicial system.
        
             | voakbasda wrote:
             | The point is that fines and legal infractions _are_ the
             | cost of doing business. The government consistently fails
             | to enforce laws in a meaningful way. We are indeed in the
             | midst of a free for all, where  "all" here refers to
             | established interests wholly capable of buying legislation
             | and courts.
        
             | alwaysrunning wrote:
             | > What's the point then? It appears only lawyers stand to
             | gain from this, as usual.
             | 
             | "lawyers stand to gain from this"
        
             | Retric wrote:
             | The point is it heavily discourages this kind of mid
             | subscription bait and switch.
             | 
             | Not living in a world where bait and switch / illegal
             | business practices are 10x as common is the benefit of
             | class action lawsuits not the occasional random check for
             | $1.37 or worse a coupon etc. Long term they could have
             | rolled out adds as people resubscribe and there's no
             | lawsuit, and next time they may consider doing so.
        
           | thomastjeffery wrote:
           | Users are also harmed by watching the ads. It would be
           | reasonable to calculate the value of each viewed ad as part
           | of the compensation that is sought by a class-action.
        
             | glitchc wrote:
             | It's hard to show legally that users are harmed by watching
             | ads, tort law requires a clear path to harm. If some users
             | purport some benefit, that would negate the harm claims.
        
               | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
               | Wouldn't one clearcut argument be that many people are
               | willing to pay money specifically to not see ads?
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | I'm willing to pay money to buy a nice car. That doesn't
               | mean a less nice car would harm me.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | If you paid money for a nice car and got a less nice car,
               | you suffered financial harm.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | If less nice car doesn't have some of the same safety
               | features like side impact air bags but are then in a
               | t-bone collision where you are injured because the air
               | bags were not there, then yes.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | This is exactly what I was going to say. Prime is sold as an
         | annual purchase, and they didn't structure the deal so that it
         | would kick the ads in when your current term expires.
        
         | init2null wrote:
         | Best case is that they'll be forced to let us cancel with a
         | partial refund. This is a worthy lawsuit for that reason.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | "Forced"? You can already cancel Prime, and get a pro-rated
           | refund.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | I cannot believe they didn't roll this out as some feature flag
         | based on account signup/renew date, and instead just told all
         | paid members they're now being downgraded(remember, it's not
         | just ads, it's lower quality).
        
           | eitally wrote:
           | No matter what people think about the _products_ Google has
           | built, they absolutely did handled the subscription,
           | grandfathering and later deprecation of Google Play Music to
           | Youtube Music, and Youtube - > Youtube Red -> Youtube
           | Premium. A subscriber may have lost features, but they
           | definitely did not get upcharged as part of a transition, and
           | only later did Google start raising rates -- separate from
           | forced functional subscription changes.
        
             | neogodless wrote:
             | Yeah - Google Stadia was actually kind of nice deal for the
             | people that jumped in early.
        
             | silisili wrote:
             | Absolutely. I'm still mad about going from Play Music to
             | Youtube Music, but I didn't feel cheated.
             | 
             | I was also a Stadia subscriber, and while they probably
             | legally didn't have to, they refunded every single penny I
             | spent on games and hardware.
        
             | ajdude wrote:
             | It's not just Google either, every single pay subscription
             | service I've ever had only altered the price for me on my
             | renewal date (and I've often had year-long or higher
             | subscriptions). Amazon seems to be an outlier.
        
         | jmward01 wrote:
         | Somewhere in the prime TOS we have agreed to this and likely
         | much worse. I paused my subscription, not that that will mean
         | anything to them. This lawsuit was inevitable and will change
         | absolutely nothing no matter the outcome. The meaningful change
         | we need is actual consumer advocacy and invalidating predatory
         | TOS clauses. It isn't possible to live in the modern world
         | without accepting the ridiculous and predatory TOS attached to
         | everything and that isn't right.
        
           | vidanay wrote:
           | The lawsuits and settlement budgets were all figured in to
           | their anticipated costs to make this change.
        
         | apwell23 wrote:
         | > I look forward to the eventual $.32 settlement I receive.
         | 
         | Do you know why amount is always ridiculously low. Are these
         | lawsuits primarly for the lawyers to make a buck, I dont see
         | how anyone else would be motivated otherwise.
        
           | nickff wrote:
           | They have a low chance of success in court, and are a
           | relatively expensive proposition for the plaintiff lawyers
           | pursuing them. As such, the lawyers are happy to take a
           | generous (to them) settlement before the case gets too far.
           | On the opposite side, it helps the company avoid expensive
           | discoveries, low-probability but possibly very expensive
           | judgements, and gets rid of the need to keep investors
           | informed about nuisance suits.
        
           | Turing_Machine wrote:
           | That's certainly the usual case, but not always. I recall one
           | Facebook class action check I got that was in the $250 range.
        
           | kmeisthax wrote:
           | The way a class action lawsuit works is this:
           | 
           | You, Big Business Co, do something that injures a bunch of
           | people for a small amount. A lawyer files a lawsuit on behalf
           | of a purported _class_ - i.e.  "Everyone Bezos Hurt vs.
           | Amazon". There's a whole thing about class certification and
           | other things I don't have time to get into, but let's say the
           | judge agrees that this is a class whose harms can be
           | adjudicated together.
           | 
           | At some point, if you actually have a claim, Amazon wants to
           | pay money for it to go away. This is an accepted part of the
           | legal system, because US courts are _adversarial_ courts[0].
           | The judge is just the referee. That means that if the
           | plaintiff and defendant agree to take their business
           | elsewhere, the judge can 't get involved and continue to
           | prosecute a dead case[1].
           | 
           | First problem: lawyers don't work for free. In fact, pretty
           | much all of them are in massive amounts of student debt until
           | their 40s and 50s, because their ability to command insane
           | amounts of money for their services is priced into the cost
           | of their education. Normally, a lawyer either gets paid by
           | their client, or the client agrees to the lawyer taking a
           | percentage cut of the damage award if one were to exist.
           | Problem is, there's no client yet - we're suing on behalf of
           | an abstract group of people that may or may not want to be
           | involved in the case.
           | 
           | Second problem: we don't know who's a member of the class, or
           | even how many people are a member of it. Settlement
           | agreements typically involve cash payments of a fixed amount.
           | You have to divvy that fixed amount up to an unknown number
           | of people.
           | 
           | So as a result every class action settlement works like this:
           | first, the lawyer gets a cut of the settlement, then the
           | class splits it up however many ways. People have to respond
           | to a settlement offer in order to be included in the class.
           | If more people sign up than we have money for, however, then
           | the class members are diluted. Amazon's liability _does not
           | increase_ just because they harmed more people than they
           | thought.
           | 
           | This is, effectively, a weird kind of double protection
           | racket, in which the person shaking Amazon down for money is
           | also taking money from Amazon to shake them down for less so
           | the mob (us) doesn't get as much. All of it is enabled by
           | fairly understandable and straightforward rules being chained
           | together to arrive at a terrible result.
           | 
           | [0] The opposite of this is _inquisitorial_ courts.
           | Inquisitorial as in _NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!_
           | 
           | [1] There are certain situations in which a judge can object
           | to a settlement that is unfair to the class, but they can't
           | outright demand the case be brought to trial.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Except that, from all reports online (including someone in
         | these comments), Amazon will cancel your annual Prime
         | subscription and refund all remaining time without any problem.
         | They don't seem to be holding anyone to the contract. (And of
         | course plenty of people subscribe monthly rather than annually
         | as well.)
         | 
         | So I'm not sure there's any case here at all? Since even with
         | annual subscriptions, it seems you can cancel at any time and
         | get a prorated refund.
         | 
         | The fact is, online subscription services change their
         | benefits/features all the time. And companies seem to handle it
         | two ways: grandfather existing customers for the rest of their
         | subscription period, or offer prorated refunds for people who
         | want to cancel. And while the former is definitely going to
         | make customers happier, I think they're both acceptable from a
         | _legal_ standpoint? So I 'm not sure this lawsuit has any
         | chance of succeeding at all.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | Simply canceling mid contract isn't a perfect remedy.
           | Consider, should they get to keep the interest on the money
           | they are handing back to you? Obviously not.
           | 
           | Contracts are enforceable because society is much worse off
           | if they aren't. Imagine if your bank could arbitrarily cancel
           | a car loan and ask for the outstanding balance back at any
           | time simple because they felt like it.
        
             | throwawaymaths wrote:
             | Enjoy the pennies on your interest.
        
           | cma wrote:
           | Can you finance monthly payments on a new Fire TV from Amazon
           | and then midway through just quit paying: but to keep it from
           | being a tort in the same way, let them have you send it back
           | if they want it. And they have to go through your confusing
           | UI or wait on hold for 40 minutes to request you send it
           | back, but you don't pay any more either way.
        
           | blibble wrote:
           | the commitment for both parties was 12 months
           | 
           | presumably they wouldn't like it if I unilaterally decided to
           | say, stop paying them 3 months into the 12 month commitment
           | 
           | how is it acceptable the other way round?
           | 
           | if they don't want to provide the service that was committed
           | to they should refund the entire purchase amount (not just
           | pro-rata)
        
       | drtz wrote:
       | Here's where I'd normally complain about how our economic system
       | requires prices to increase while product quality degrades to
       | ensure ever-increasing profits for shareholders.
       | 
       | Instead, I'll complain about commercials: why can't we just have
       | something that's truly paid and ad-free? Do we actually value our
       | time less than advertisers do?
        
         | johnnyo wrote:
         | Because it's more profitable to have something that is paid for
         | AND has ads.
         | 
         | Same thing happened with cable TV when it first came out, it
         | was advertised as ad free. Then it filled up with ads, and the
         | streaming services came along promising no ads. Now the circle
         | is repeating itself.
         | 
         | Here is the NYTimes in 1981 on the topic
         | https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/26/arts/will-cable-tv-be-inv...
        
           | TehCorwiz wrote:
           | Greed is cyclical.
        
           | drtz wrote:
           | Thanks for sharing that NYT article.
           | 
           | > ...critics say that the use of sponsorship could make cable
           | programmers more vulnerable to censorship or control by
           | advertisers, particularly in light of recent efforts by
           | organizations such as the Moral Majority and its offshoot,
           | the Coalition for Better Television.
           | 
           | 40+ years later I think it's pretty clear this was an
           | accurate prediction.
           | 
           | > A much-cited - and widely disputed - study by the Benton &
           | Bowles advertising agency found that the public would accept
           | advertising if it meant a reduction or a holding-of-the-line
           | on subscription fees...
           | 
           | This is great until a year later when YoY revenue growth is
           | flat and prices are increased anyway.
        
           | apwell23 wrote:
           | > Because it's more profitable to have something that is paid
           | for AND has ads.
           | 
           | how does it work for HBO then.
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | They use an embedded marketing strategy that isn't as
             | obvious that you are watching advertising.
        
               | babypuncher wrote:
               | That explains the Starbucks cup in Game of Thrones season
               | 8
        
             | burnte wrote:
             | No one said paid only doesn't work, the commenter simply
             | pointed out the obvious that TWO revenue streams is better
             | than one.
        
         | neogodless wrote:
         | Amazon's market research suggested to them that you (might)
         | value your time enough to pay an extra $3/month to avoid
         | watching ads.
        
           | johnnyo wrote:
           | More specifically, the total revenue of ads + the people
           | willing to pay $3/month is greater than the revenue lost when
           | people cancel their service due to ads
        
             | JadeNB wrote:
             | > More specifically, the total revenue of ads + the people
             | willing to pay $3/month is greater than the revenue lost
             | when people cancel their service due to ads
             | 
             | The bundling makes cancellation particularly unlikely: you
             | can't (or at least I don't know how to) cancel the Prime
             | Video part of the Prime package alone, so there's no way to
             | show your dissatisfaction with this short of cancelling the
             | entire Prime membership. Which this latest push, however
             | small on its own, has been enough to get me finally to
             | consider doing, but it's still tough.
        
               | gknoy wrote:
               | I'll just watch even fewer things on Prime, I guess.
               | Everything about the UI and watching experience seems
               | worse than Netflix, but then ... that's been worsening
               | recently as well in ways I can't quantify.
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | I canceled my Prime a while back when AMZN's started
               | quoting 5 day delivery to my location, though on the rare
               | times when I do order something from AMZN it often takes
               | 7 days.
               | 
               | The thing is I live less than 3 hours from a big
               | warehouse (people who live in the same ZIP code as one of
               | those warehouses often get 5-day shipping) but it seems
               | that the residents of Upstate New York and New England
               | are frequently treated as unpeople when it comes to
               | facilities and infrastructure.
        
               | avitous wrote:
               | Same here. I had an additional cable channel subscription
               | through Prime, which I've now cancelled, as I don't wish
               | to tolerate any advertising in my video stream, so I will
               | simply stop watching any video on Prime. And as you
               | pointed out, the quality of Prime video offerings has
               | been in decline of late.
               | 
               | Why won't I leave Prime (yet)? Because I have an "Amazon"
               | visa credit card, with an admittedly serious 5% permanent
               | discount on all purchases from Amazon (as well as
               | companies they own, such as Whole Foods.) I won't stop
               | purchasing products through Prime just yet; am simply
               | careful to avoid anything that looks problematic, price-
               | gouged, or needing aftersale support, and the discount
               | lock-in is too attractive to me to ignore for now. But
               | video? I can always find it elsewhere. Same goes for
               | "FreeVee" because "Free with ads" isn't free.
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | FYI, if you cancel Prime but want to keep that card, they
               | will downgrade you to a blue Amazon branded card that
               | still gets 3% back at Amazon. I don't know if you still
               | get any discount at Whole Foods since I might only go
               | there about once a year at most.
               | 
               | So if Prime is failing you in other ways, don't feel like
               | you need to keep it to keep your discount.
        
               | neogodless wrote:
               | Personally I find the shipping benefits of Prime vastly
               | overrated. I just got a free trial of Prime, and they
               | promised 2 day shipping... but it took 4 days. Why would
               | someone pay for that? I tend to let items accumulate to
               | hit the free shipping minimum and then order. Still tends
               | to come in 2-4 days regardless.
        
               | sgc wrote:
               | Where I live Prime is 1-2 days on almost everything. It
               | is a pretty compelling service for many people, of
               | course.
        
               | johnnyo wrote:
               | Amazon shipping in my area used to be 2 days, but no
               | longer.
               | 
               | Now it's generally 4 working days, sometimes more.
               | 
               | Almost all the services I've used Amazon for in the past
               | keep getting worse. Prime shipping, video, Amazon music,
               | etc
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | I have a warehouse serving our entire metro area five
               | miles from my house. Shipping takes two days _after_
               | Amazon sits on my order for 2-3 days.
               | 
               | Their drivers are also the worst. The driver that covers
               | my area tends to throw packages a good 10 feet at my
               | door. Needless to say, Amazon is pretty much my last
               | choice option these days.
        
               | rrr_oh_man wrote:
               | > The driver that covers my area tends to throw packages
               | a good 10 feet at my door.
               | 
               | You don't want to know what happens in warehouses...
        
               | drtz wrote:
               | I consider myself lucky to have discovered how little
               | value Prime has for shipping a few years ago when Target
               | had a free Shipt promotion. I learned a couple things
               | pretty quickly after I dropped Prime:
               | 
               | 1. In most cases my Amazon orders took about the same
               | amount of time to get to my house as they did with Prime:
               | 3-4 days
               | 
               | 2. Amazon has some terrible dark patterns. For example,
               | on the product page you always see the lowest priced
               | shipping option (usually free), but at checkout it
               | defaults to paid shipping. It's really easy to
               | accidentally pay an extra $5.99 for shipping, often with
               | the same estimated arrival it would've had with free
               | shipping.
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | Greed. That's why. Having a wildly profitable business isn't
         | enough. It has to be as profitable as the market will bear.
         | Pure capitalism.
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | Absolutely, advertisers are big companies who don't really care
         | how much they're spending on ads. Especially big brands, they
         | have no idea how much advertising helps them, and they don't
         | care about the budget that much. They'll absolutely pay more to
         | put an ad in front of you than you think it's worth to remove
         | it. That's the whole thing with ads.
        
         | xhrpost wrote:
         | I'm sure this has been going on for a while but I'm noticing an
         | even bigger obsession with companies manifesting ad inventory
         | locations everywhere possible. Biggest standout recently is
         | Lyft placing large ads in their app while I'm waiting on a ride
         | _that I 'm paying them for_! I too used to think something that
         | was paid for directly with actual money meant no ads but not
         | anymore.
        
           | maicro wrote:
           | One of my favorite examples is LCD screens on gas pumps -
           | yelling at you about various deals in the store, as you're
           | standing there _giving them money for the fuel you're
           | pumping_. Some at least have a mute button...
        
             | brewdad wrote:
             | I will go to a gas station with those loud screens exactly
             | once. After that, I have written them off. There is a
             | station in my in-law's town with those. I had to fill up
             | there once about 10 years ago as my fuel light was on. I'm
             | 95% sure they got rid of the screens a while back but I
             | will never go to that station again if I have a choice.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | I've accidentally hit those sorts of gas stations a
               | couple of times. I didn't even bother getting gas at
               | them, though. I got back in my car and drove away. I'm
               | not willing to pay a company to abuse me. There are other
               | stations that actually value their customers, and I'll go
               | to them.
               | 
               | This same attitude is also why I stopped doing any
               | business with Amazon years ago. They became intolerable.
        
             | chankstein38 wrote:
             | If I go to those I'll lean with my hand over the speaker if
             | they don't have a mute button. I'm not listening to
             | whatever garbage they put together there. I wish I could do
             | more but I need gas... I hate this world sometimes.
        
           | drtz wrote:
           | I think this was just a short reprieve from ads in some
           | spaces as we were adopting new tech, not a norm that is just
           | recently being broken. Cable TV, newspapers, magazines, and
           | even many taxis and municipal buses have had advertisements
           | for decades.
        
         | thomastjeffery wrote:
         | Monopoly is the best position to implement anti-competitive
         | behavior. Copyright is monopoly. It should be no surprise that
         | Copyright has resulted in anti-competitive behavior.
         | 
         | No one can afford to compete with large media corporations,
         | because Copyright explicitly turns media corporations into
         | monopolies.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | Copyright's not monopoly. Do you mean the company that owns a
           | TV show has a "monopoly" on that TV show? That's not what
           | people mean monopoly.
        
         | gretch wrote:
         | > why can't we just have something that's truly paid and ad-
         | free?
         | 
         | We can. You just have to make it first.
         | 
         | This is not a question to ask of others, it a just question you
         | ask yourself. Once you answer it for yourself, then just
         | realize that same answer applies to everyone from their
         | perspective.
        
           | drtz wrote:
           | > We can. You just have to make it first.
           | 
           | But how? I don't have the resources to build something like
           | this on my own. I'm skeptical I could convince many investors
           | to give me money to build something pitched as "just like
           | Prime Video but without the ad revenue" when Amazon has
           | certainly already done market research and determined this is
           | the best path to maximize profit.
        
             | rrr_oh_man wrote:
             | Exactly.
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | > We can. You just have to make it first.
           | 
           | They've _been_ made. Repeatedly. They just don 't persist.
           | 
           | Our economic system won't let them.
        
         | joemaller1 wrote:
         | Advertisers are sort of benevolent here, if not lesser victims.
         | 
         | Google, Facebook and now Amazon realized the big money is in
         | brokering ads. As brokers, they know everything and control
         | everything, exploiting both the viewers and advertisers.
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | The problem is that the most lucrative advertising market is to
         | advertise to those people who are willing to pay extra to not
         | see ads. The people who are willing to save money by seeing
         | ads, are also the people who don't have excess discretionary
         | cash that they'd be willing to spend on the products
         | advertisers are advertising to them. This is the paradox that
         | keeps driving this industry around in circles, swallowing its
         | own tail.
        
           | rrr_oh_man wrote:
           | An excellent point. This is why we can't have good things in
           | a growth-paradigm economy.
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | Good point. We'd have no streaming services and we'd be
             | happy.
        
         | milesvp wrote:
         | There was an interesting interview with a long timer with
         | google on a podcast I listen to (freakanomics?) where the
         | concept of ads came up. Apparently very early on google did the
         | analysis and found that google search provided something like
         | $50 (can't remember the exact number) of actualizable annual
         | value to a typical user. Which is to say they could charge
         | around $5 monthly and it'd still be worth it for most people to
         | pay. But the ads. They could make way more than $50 per user
         | just during the christmas season alone. And so it was a no
         | brainer for them to go with ads (despite anti ad sentiment
         | being a key part of the papers that led to the creation of
         | google...).
         | 
         | So, to answer your question. I think we do value our time less
         | than advertisers do. Worse, is I suspect your eyeballs becomes
         | more valuable to advertisers the more your willing to pay to
         | not see ads...
        
         | dgrin91 wrote:
         | I mean you can, it just costs $3/month more now. Basically any
         | service out there has truly ad free versions if you pay more.
         | 
         | It sucks that the price point keeps getting farther away, but
         | it does exist.
        
       | thinkingkong wrote:
       | It doesnt take much of an imagination to understand that amazon
       | knew of the probability of a lawsuit, understands the probability
       | of its success, and did the math on upside. With 3B on the line
       | they can afford the lawyers, the appeals, the penalties, etc.
        
       | wrs wrote:
       | What burns my cookies is that you pay the extra $3 for "ad-free"
       | service and then Freevee _still has ads_. I thought Freevee was
       | the way they sneaked in an ad-based service by just branding it
       | differently. Are they going to add another $3 for "ad-free
       | Freevee"?
        
         | kennethrc wrote:
         | ... sigh ...
         | 
         | Considering the shows I've liked on FV, one can hope :|
        
         | brewdad wrote:
         | The ads have always been Freevee's business model. So they
         | might offer an ad-free option at some point but that seems
         | highly unlikely.
        
       | srameshc wrote:
       | Will that even bother Amazon ? I am sure all the big ones have
       | learned how to settle these Suits.
        
       | Johnny555 wrote:
       | I'd rather have them be forced to let me cancel Prime Video and
       | discount my Prime membership by $8.99/month. If they are going to
       | make Prime Video unusable to me by injecting ads, then I don't
       | want to pay for it at all, but I do still want the other Prime
       | benefits.
        
         | maxwell wrote:
         | Seems like whole premise of Prime, and most Apple products for
         | that matter, is to capitalize on the failure to enforce product
         | tying that's illegal under both Sherman and Clayton.
        
           | blagie wrote:
           | ... I thought the original premise of Prime was to take goods
           | and services which, under basic economic theory, are more
           | efficient centrally-funded by taxes, and provide those via a
           | private entity. Especially things with zero marginal cost,
           | like movies, music, and TV, should not be sold per-unit, but
           | should be available to everyone and funded by taxes. Prime
           | looked like a private equivalent to that.
           | 
           | If we all pay $3.5B per month (350M people times $10/month),
           | that's enough to give us all the college textbooks, movies,
           | software, and music we might want to use, as well as paying
           | for a lot of transportation infrastructure for rapid
           | shipping.
           | 
           | It seemed like a good model while Amazon was doing that.
           | 
           | Now it looks more like what you said.
           | 
           | Prime looks a lot more antitrusty in the model it's evolving
           | to. I cancelled Prime about six months back, and Amazon is
           | just obnoxious. There are ads on content I paid for. I can't
           | check out without five annoying alerts. All those Prime deals
           | look a lot less like deals and more like ways to bump up
           | pricing for people who don't opt in. All in all, once I
           | cancelled Amazon, it basically imploded on me, and now I only
           | use it if there are seriously no other options.
           | 
           | That also pushes me away from any vendors who standardized on
           | Amazon for logistics. All of a sudden, I realized non-Prime
           | members just won't buy from you if you use Amazon for
           | logistics.
           | 
           | It didn't used to be like that. Pre-Prime Amazon worked fine.
        
       | liendolucas wrote:
       | So this is the cherry on top. After paying for a subscription you
       | also have to pay to not get ads? That's lame. People should start
       | boycotting Amazon right now.
        
       | turtlesdown11 wrote:
       | Remember, AMZN is all about "customer delight"
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | Genuine legal question here: can this suit succeed as long as
       | Amazon allows anyone to cancel their Prime membership with a
       | refund of all remaining time?
       | 
       | You can subscribe to Prime monthly or yearly. Anecdotally,
       | everywhere I've checked on forums, everyone who's contacted
       | customer service to cancel their annual Prime membership has
       | gotten a prorated refund (or even full refund in some cases). And
       | I'm assuming that's probably their actual internal policy,
       | specifically to avoid a lawsuit.
       | 
       | So if this is the case, is there any basis for this suit to
       | succeed? It seems like it's wrong if Amazon changes the terms
       | mid-subscription -- but it doesn't seem necessarily wrong for
       | ongoing subscriptions _if_ you can get out of it at any time.
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | >And I'm assuming that's probably their actual internal policy,
         | specifically to avoid a lawsuit.
         | 
         | it might be to avoid a lawsuit, but it's probably not to avoid
         | this specific lawsuit. when i cancelled my prime, i didn't have
         | to give any reason why, i never told anybody it was because i
         | was mad about getting ads on prime video. but i still got the
         | pro-rated refund for the 6mo remaining in the subscription.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe]
       | 
       | more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39350257
        
       | oraphalous wrote:
       | I would dismiss such lawsuits and their plaintiffs as strange and
       | persnickety if it weren't for...
       | 
       | Here in Australia, where the ads haven't been introduced yet, I
       | got a notification from Amazon prompting to change to a yearly
       | subscription because of the money I'd save. They've never
       | prompted me thusly before.
       | 
       | I don't care about the extra dollars for ad free. It's just like
       | raising the price of a service - which happens all the time. And
       | what's more, it certainly WOULD benefit me to switch to yearly,
       | which I never got around to doing.
       | 
       | But it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Amazon is trying to
       | lock people into year long contracts right before they change the
       | terms. The deliberateness of THAT intent, the willingness to just
       | so blatantly pinch from the pocket of the unwary - even if it's
       | only a few bucks. That PISSES ME OFF.
       | 
       | Now I love capitalism - the right to own the sweat off your brow
       | that stokes the competitive fires! It's the air we breathe. But
       | these hyper-capitalist a-holes that would steal a cent if you
       | just blink for a second... Goddamn. What makes these people?
       | 
       | That drop of sweat, that they didn't earn, joins the billions of
       | others in a torrent of wealth being syphoned of the regular folk
       | on a daily basis. And the world is growing parched.
       | 
       | So I salute the persnickety and fastidious Sir Wilbert Napoleon
       | and everything he represent. I hope he wins.
        
       | adamjc wrote:
       | This, Netflix account-sharing blocking, and the ever increasing
       | amount of streaming platforms (that mean an overall reduced
       | catalogue per platform) leads me to believe we will see a
       | resurgence in piracy.
       | 
       | Yo, Ho, Ho :)
        
         | ijhuygft776 wrote:
         | "Went back" to piracy years ago... I actually pirated movies
         | even when they were available on my Netflix subscription. I
         | unsubscribed from Netflix when they started their descent into
         | Netflix-only content.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Watching Ads on Amazon Prime Video Is a Deal Breaker for Some_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39178546
        
       | zerocrates wrote:
       | I wonder what made Amazon go with this course of action.
       | 
       | Plenty of the other providers have done _basically_ the same
       | thing: the previous price now includes ads and you have to pay
       | more to stay ad-free... but they 've all done it by raising
       | prices and introducing a lower with-ads tier.
       | 
       | To me it feels worse to have your service downgraded with the
       | option to pay more to get it back than it does to have your price
       | increased with the option to drop to a worse tier. That's sort of
       | irrational, as the price increase is basically "opting you in" to
       | pay more, but also just reflects how much ads suck.
       | 
       | In terms of Amazon's choice, my best guess is that it's a
       | reaction to an effect I've seen other providers describe: the ads
       | are so lucrative they actually earn more on the lower-tier
       | customers.
        
       | rc-1140 wrote:
       | The most important question, in my opinion, is will this class-
       | action suit actually result in any meaningful change or will
       | Bezos/Amazon scrape up some cash to make this "little lawsuit
       | problem" go away?
        
       | malermeister wrote:
       | Get a seedbox for like 10 bucks a month, throw on Jellyfin,
       | Radarr and Sonarr and never worry about this BS ever again.
       | 
       | I used to pay for Netflix and Prime. It keeps getting more
       | fragmented, more expensive and more shittified.
       | 
       | Like Gabe Newell said, piracy is a service problem. I'm willing
       | to pay a reasonable monthly fee for a good service. Unfortunately
       | the only ones providing that are pirates.
        
         | hasbot wrote:
         | More info for those (like me) that didn't know what a seedbox
         | is:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/seedboxes/wiki/index/what_is_a_seed...
        
       | rdudek wrote:
       | What's worse is they locked Dolby Atmos and HDR behind the paid
       | tier, something that used to be available normally. The
       | Enshitification of Amazon continues.
        
       | spandrew wrote:
       | I cancelled my Amazon Prime after this email. $2.99 isn't a lot,
       | but I was already on the fence given all of their good shows were
       | heading to the dumpster fire that is the + premium channels;
       | Paramount+ AMC+ channels, etc.
       | 
       | So far I haven't missed it. I watch more YouTube than any of
       | these services anymore.
        
       | sakopov wrote:
       | I guess next quarter is going to be a blowout. Amazon is pulling
       | all kinds of levers in the name of profitability. AWS is now
       | charging for [public IPV4
       | usage](https://www.infoq.com/news/2024/02/aws-ipv4-charges/)
       | which will bring $1B in revenue.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-02-14 23:00 UTC)