[HN Gopher] Holepunch Unveils P2P Platform "Pear Runtime"
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Holepunch Unveils P2P Platform "Pear Runtime"
Author : yosoyubik
Score : 25 points
Date : 2024-02-14 19:21 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (pears.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (pears.com)
| macawfish wrote:
| Are there any plans to support mobile platforms?
| altruios wrote:
| mobile platforms have some unique challenges for P2P stuff,
| from what I looked into back in the day.
|
| https://www.researchgate.net/publication/200753717_Challenge...
|
| (from 2009)
|
| P2P stuff is really hard.
| Uptrenda wrote:
| I'm guessing its due to the NATs they use. Carrier-grade NATs
| with made-up IPs and symmetric NATs. You can have some kind
| of options for symmetric NATs. But I'm not too sure about
| carrier-grade NATs yet as I've never even written code for
| this yet.
| chatmasta wrote:
| You'll face a lot of those problems on residential ISP
| connections too. The bigger issue with mobile devices is
| that they're roaming between towers, so there are frequent
| changes to the network topology. But p2p networks usually
| require a long-ish bootstrapping step that might not even
| finish by the time the physical network shifts underneath
| it. (Tor bootstrapping takes on the order of ~30 seconds,
| for example.) As the linked paper notes, this is disruptive
| not only to the local client, but also to the rest of the
| network that needs to re-learn (and re-propagate) the
| location of mobile peers.
| api wrote:
| No it's mostly the battery limitations.
|
| Keeping links open P2P requires keepalive because NATs will
| time out. Even with IPv6 there are usually stateful
| firewalls in the way that will time out. This means you're
| constantly sending little packets, and if you have a lot of
| links there's a lot of keep alive cycles that have to be
| serviced. This keeps radios and baseband hardware from
| being able to sleep, draining the battery faster.
|
| Mobile devices almost always have IPv6 on cell networks
| these days, which makes the actual hole punching almost
| 100% successful.
| treyd wrote:
| > Created by Holepunch, a Tether-backed company
|
| Is this the same Tether as in the USDT stablecoin that's been
| accused of pumping up the volume in Bitcoin markets and possibly
| being secretly insolvent?
| meragrin_ wrote:
| Seems so.
|
| https://tether.to/en/tether-bitfinex-and-hypercore-launch-ho...
| ursuscamp wrote:
| The same company. The claims about pumping Bitcoin are
| ridiculous, but being secretly insolvent? It seems unlikely at
| this point, but maybe.
| Uptrenda wrote:
| This seems like an unneeded attempt to try politicalize a
| technical innovation...
| humbleferret wrote:
| Genuine curiosity: What's the issue with a company being backed
| by Tether?
|
| I understand that, as it stands today, Holepunch appears to be
| operated or contributed to by several staff members from
| Bitfinex and Tether. However, if Holepunch is open source and
| Tether were to implode, Holepunch would still exist and could
| be adopted by anyone, irrespective of Tether/Bitfinex, etc.,
| correct?
| rockooooo wrote:
| Open-source projects where all the developers work for one
| company tend not to do too well when that company dies,
| especially if there isn't a large ecosystem around the
| software yet.
| humbleferret wrote:
| I've been following Holepunch developments for a while. There
| does not seem too much publicly available about who's building
| with it, but I personally regularly use Holepunch's Keet[1] for
| video calls with friends in parts of the world with censored
| Internet. I'm able to chat with voice and image quality
| surpassing anything else I've used.
|
| [1] https://keet.io/
| Uptrenda wrote:
| It's frigging cool. It's super hard to make a meaningful model
| for p2p applications because they need all kinds of data
| structures that are research tier or have scarce real-world
| data. It's not just connectivity that's hard. If they manage to
| do everything decentralized and create meaningful constructs.
| This could be the start of actually realizing all the rhetoric
| these kind of projects have been promising. This seems to have
| technical merit, imo.
| diggan wrote:
| Feels like creating small, ephemeral groups is an easier part
| of p2p too, so it fits that particular use case well.
| dmotz wrote:
| This looks exciting and I'm pleased to see more and more
| frictionless ways of making p2p apps. I've been building a
| somewhat similar hobby project [1] that aims to connect peers in
| the browser by piggybacking on open protocols out on the net
| (BitTorrent, MQTT, Nostr, IPFS, etc).
|
| This project seems to be using Hyperswarm which I've looked at
| for use as a peering medium but it seems like it's not supported
| in the browser. I'd love to implement it if that story changes
| since it's so easy to distribute apps on the web.
|
| [1] https://github.com/dmotz/trystero/
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