[HN Gopher] 100 Years Ago, IBM Was Born
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       100 Years Ago, IBM Was Born
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 311 points
       Date   : 2024-02-14 01:20 UTC (21 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
        
       | 082349872349872 wrote:
       | see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_(slogan)
        
         | jacurtis wrote:
         | I never knew about this slogan.
         | 
         | But I'm curious if this was the real origin behind Apple's
         | infamous "Think Different" campaign. IBM was the big competitor
         | at the time and Steve Jobs didn't have a high opinion of them.
         | Was he familiar with this slogan and decided to play on it
         | while also backhanded criticize it with the "Think Different"
         | slogan for his own company?
        
           | eyelidlessness wrote:
           | The Wikipedia article[1] cites a few sources which support
           | "Think Different" as a reference to IBM's "Think". But IBM
           | was one of Apple's biggest business partners at the time, as
           | part of the AIM alliance[2].
           | 
           | 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_different
           | 
           | 2: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance
        
             | ioblomov wrote:
             | While AIM could be seen as a failure--PowerPC never
             | threatened x86's dominance--its legacy, RISC, later became
             | ubiquitous with the shift to mobile via ARM.
        
               | richrichardsson wrote:
               | Doesn't ARM predate PowerPC by quite some margin?
        
               | ioblomov wrote:
               | You are correct: 1985 vs 1991. My bad. I just heard about
               | AIM at the time, whereas ARM was relatively unknown
               | (well, at least to me ;) until the rise of mobile.
               | 
               | Edit: It's a bit confusing because ARM the architecture
               | is older than ARM the company. But yes, both precede
               | AIM/PowerPC.
               | 
               | My main point was that mobile made RISC ubiquitous.
        
         | badcppdev wrote:
         | Sorry for the tangent but the phrase, "Think with IBM or Thwim
         | with someone else" has lived in my head for a very long time.
        
       | Nursie wrote:
       | Interesting, IBM itself celebrated its centenary when I was there
       | in 2011 or early 2012.
       | 
       | We got a cupcake, some badges and some sort of stock grant - the
       | company would do something like put aside $1k worth of stock at
       | 2011 prices for each employee, and anyone who was there 10 years
       | later would actually receive the shares.
       | 
       | I'm not aware of a single person who received that grant because
       | the development lab I worked in back then got shut down a few
       | years after I had moved on. And looking at the stock price
       | movements in that time, $1600 bucks is not a lot for ten years
       | loyalty!
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I guess it depends on which event you consider the start of
         | IBM. I know a fair number of people who have been there for 20
         | to 30 years.
        
         | ncneieixk5 wrote:
         | lol i remember this, we all got like 6 total RSUs and were
         | supposed to be ecstatic about it. and yes they fired all of us
         | before ever paying out
        
         | seth123456 wrote:
         | When I was there during that time we got a book about the
         | history and how IBM saw itself.
        
           | Nursie wrote:
           | Oh yeah, there was a book too :)
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | Did it mention IBM's role in the holocaust?
        
       | abtinf wrote:
       | IBM commissioned two films by Errol Morris for their actual
       | centennial.*
       | 
       | 100x100: https://youtube.com/watch?v=atjPROSOSDs
       | 
       | They Were There: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MmVCePfMXAU
       | 
       | I think They Were There is incredible in that it features the
       | actual rank-and-file employees who did the work... insofar as
       | Mandelbrot may be considered a rank-and-file employee.
       | 
       | *not sure if 100x100 was by Errol Morris, or if that was just my
       | assumption.
        
         | w-ll wrote:
         | Are you thinking of "Powers of Ten". Charles and Ray Eames but
         | I believe commissioned by IBM.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0
        
           | 082349872349872 wrote:
           | _Powers of Ten_ was itself a copy of the original dutch work,
           | _Cosmic View_ (1957).
        
             | dundarious wrote:
             | Thanks for the information about Cosmic View. To be honest,
             | I wouldn't call a film adaptation of a 20 year old book, a
             | "copy", but I get your point.
        
               | 082349872349872 wrote:
               | Sorry, next time I'll say "based upon" or "derivative of"
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Fully respect the history, but often these days as the corp has
       | waned/is nothing more than a bygone great, I can't help but think
       | of _Songs of the I.B.M_.
       | (https://www.robweir.com/blog/2011/06/songs-of-the-ibm.html)
       | 
       | i.e                 Ever onward! ever onward!       that's the
       | spirit that has brought us fame.       we're big but bigger we
       | will be,       we can't fail for all can see,       that to serve
       | humanity has been our aim.       our products now are known
       | in every zone.       our reputation sparkles like a gem.
       | we've fought our way through       and new fields we're sure to
       | conquer, too,       for the ever onward IBM!
        
         | zer0zzz wrote:
         | https://youtu.be/VyQEbLx6AEY?si=W9OZHrE-hxXy4P4r
        
         | CobrastanJorji wrote:
         | Don't respect their history. They made their poor workers show
         | up in their suits and sock suspenders and sing patriotic,
         | hagiographic odes to their executives, while those same
         | executives carefully worked out ways to sneak around
         | regulations to become top vendors of both the US and Germany
         | during WW2. If Google had a mandatory assembly to sing "praise
         | be to Sundar Pichai, the most thoughtful and wise of us all,"
         | we'd rightfully drag them through the mud for it, just as we're
         | right to drag IBM retroactively.
         | 
         | A lot of the good IBM did came in the early 2000s when they
         | were still powerful but flailing wildly, almost accidentally
         | going all in on open source, and creating truly amazing ads
         | around it. Look at how good this ad was:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgo3BBgWDA
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | Also liked the ads with Captain Sisko. Open Source was the
           | only option for the legacy players marginalized by microsoft
           | at the time. See sgi, sun, apple, netscape, and ibm.
        
         | angiosperm wrote:
         | Getting the German national Iron Cross personally from Hitler
         | was a high point, I guess. IBM got back all the equipment the
         | Nazis used, and all the Nazis paid for its use, after the war.
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | So selling to both sides and getting the spoils? Talk about
           | creating shareholder value.
        
         | gspetr wrote:
         | Beat me to posting about the Songbook, but this one's a much
         | funnier article about it: https://arstechnica.com/information-
         | technology/2014/08/tripp...
         | 
         | Prev HN discussion about it:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25227824
         | 
         | Some select lines that I found particularly amusing:
         | We don't pretend we're gay.         We always feel that way,
         | Because we're filling the world with sunshine.         With
         | I.B.M. machines,         We've got the finest means,
         | For brightly painting the clouds with sunshine.
         | --from "Painting the Clouds with Sunshine"
        
           | insane_dreamer wrote:
           | OMG, that songbook is very cult-like                 Thomas
           | Watson is our inspiration,       Head and soul of our
           | splendid I.B.M.       We are pledged to him in every nation,
           | Our President and most beloved man.       His wisdom has
           | guided each division       In service to all humanity
           | We have grown and broadened with his vision,       None can
           | match him or our great company.       T. J. Watson, we all
           | honor you,       You're so big and so square and so true,
           | We will follow and serve with you forever,       All the
           | world must know what I. B. M. can do.            --from "To
           | Thos. J. Watson, President, I.B.M. Our Inspiration"
           | 
           | I guess a show like Severance doesn't need to look to fiction
           | for inspiration; plenty of examples in history
        
       | JSR_FDED wrote:
       | Such a contradiction - world-class research, patents filed, etc.
       | At the same time unable to stay up to date and relevant. After
       | many years in the valley I joined them, thinking I'd learn how
       | they ran truly global projects. Spoiler, it's just chaos - throw
       | people at it and when that fails throw more people at it. A giant
       | red flag was when they decided they couldn't compete in the
       | commoditized x86 server market and sold off that division to
       | Lenovo, for who it instantly became their highest margin
       | business. IBM's cost structure and bloat just meant they couldn't
       | compete in all but the most profitable product lines. Then came
       | all the financial engineering like recasting their software as
       | Cloud revenue.
        
         | jacurtis wrote:
         | What ive learned in my career is that all companies are
         | operating on a knife's edge. I have accepted offers at some
         | very prestigious companies where I assume that "surely this
         | company will be organized and have good systems in place".
         | Then, after I start I realize every company is operating on
         | chaos, barely putting one foot in front of the other.
         | 
         | They put on a good front for the public investor meetings, but
         | behind the scenes I have decided that every company is just
         | running one day at a time.
        
           | rqtwteye wrote:
           | " Then, after I start I realize every company is operating on
           | chaos, barely putting one foot in front of the other."
           | 
           | So true. I have been involved in some projects where we had
           | to figure out how certain processes. Every time it turned out
           | that things are run on a mix of SAP, printed Excel sheets and
           | some E-mails. Somehow it all (mostly) works out but nobody
           | really knows how the company works.
        
             | gonzo41 wrote:
             | And this is why AI will not take our jobs, Why would AI let
             | itself do this work when it's got such a bright future.
        
               | rqtwteye wrote:
               | I think AI will be way more able to understand convoluted
               | process than humans.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | I believe this describe most of the industry.
           | 
           | Conferences about high performance teams and practices are
           | wet dreams.
           | 
           | If I'm wrong then I want to meet these teams.
        
             | monero-xmr wrote:
             | I work at a very high performance company that I co-
             | founded. But we are less than 150 people and ~50% have been
             | with us for 10 to 20 years as loyal employees we have
             | brought through a few firms.
             | 
             | I think small, lucrative, focused companies can enjoy work-
             | life balance and strong employee and customer loyalty. You
             | need a niche that is big enough to support a 90th
             | percentile team, but small and esoteric enough to avoid
             | attention of giant firms. It is a delicate balance. I think
             | the German Mittelstand model is similar, except translate
             | this to software.
        
               | rtz121 wrote:
               | I work in a "Mittelstand" company and we are definitely
               | operating mostly on chaos.
        
               | monero-xmr wrote:
               | Well to be honest most companies of any size are
               | operating on chaos. But the person I was replying to
               | "wanted to meet [the high performing] teams" so I gave an
               | example of mine, where I feel things are fairly well-
               | oiled. But this is a unique situation, that is actually
               | the result of 20 years of building. We even raised VC but
               | they have accepted whatever it is they have invested in,
               | which won't be 1000x ROI.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | Thanks, there's so many questions coming to mind:
               | 
               | - how did you find your team mates
               | 
               | - how do you plan the work (fully self organized ? xp ?
               | agile ? another method ?)
               | 
               | - how do you resolve human issues (intra or inter teams
               | frictions, loss of motivation)
               | 
               | - do you assess per employee performance or not ? (have
               | you ever run into a situation where someone was faking,
               | or faking too much, but nobody checked ? or is you group
               | tight enough so that any such case will be detected and
               | fixed rapidly)
               | 
               | - do you have allocated time for team performance
               | improvements ? remove friction, adjust processes
               | 
               | - do you allow creative attempts (if someone thinks he
               | could chase a new idea for a day or two)
               | 
               | also, i didn't ask, how do you define high performance ?
               | i have my own definition in a way: ability to understand
               | most parts of your system in a few minutes with high
               | confidence, ability to try new ideas, ability to split
               | work between people for parallelism so that integrating
               | is nearly guaranteed and lastly people who can generate
               | new ideas multiple times per day
        
               | dghlsakjg wrote:
               | I thought I was insane reading all of these chaos
               | comments. I've worked at several companies that are VERY
               | well organized. I think that above or below a certain
               | scale chaos is the rule, but somewhere around 100 people
               | can be a smooth running machine.
        
             | hermitcrab wrote:
             | It seems that the bigger a company is, the higher
             | percentage of dead wood.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | yeah it's something one can read regularly, and
               | especially in military or govt settings where the
               | bureaucracy is so heavy it takes a month to add a file.
        
           | Nursie wrote:
           | The only one I've seen otherwise was one of the big banks.
           | 
           | They were pretty well organised. They had relatively low
           | productivity expectations for developers because they had
           | nailed eveything down in terms of network security and legal
           | compliance, but they accounted for that and expected it.
           | 
           | It may come from them having no shortage of funds, I suppose,
           | and as a result no shortage of staff, skills and time to
           | throw at things.
        
             | kitd wrote:
             | I worked at an oil major which was fairly well organized,
             | but I think much of that was down to the nature of the
             | business which is both highly integrated and highly
             | regulated.
        
           | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
           | That's kind of re-assuring, it means nobody has some secret
           | huge advantage over their competitors. (Well it's not re-
           | assuring for me riding in a Boeing plane.)
           | 
           | I guess it's some combo of the Efficient Market Hypothesis
           | and "Every complex system is always running in a broken
           | state" (https://how.complexsystems.fail/#5)
        
             | jxramos wrote:
             | Great excerpt
             | 
             | > ...are usually predicated on naive notions of system
             | performance
        
           | benreesman wrote:
           | Most companies I've worked for in 20 years doing this were a
           | mess in one way or another, but also generally delivered an
           | acceptable if inconsistent outcome.
           | 
           | I've had a few brief spells at companies in their "golden
           | days", where it just sings. Every once in a while there's
           | plenty of budget because the product market fit is hand-in-
           | glove, and the first people set an aggressive but achievable
           | bar for quality, and a mentoring culture emerged, and
           | leadership still knew their trade.
           | 
           | That's a quarter of my career at best, but it's the stuff you
           | remember.
        
             | hondo77 wrote:
             | Yeah, I was at a company when we were on top of the world.
             | For a few years we could do no wrong but even when we hit
             | our peak, behind the scenes it was chaos (and we assumed
             | "the other guys" actually knew what they were doing while
             | we were just winging it). How we were able to achieve so
             | much during so much craziness is still amazing to me. It
             | didn't last very long, of course, but at least I got to
             | experience something like that--most people don't.
        
           | rcbdev wrote:
           | What made IBM worse to me than the rest of the industry was
           | the crazy crunch/burnout culture both in my project and
           | utilization-wise. Also the absolute insanity of putting fresh
           | out of college juniors on major aspects of multi-million euro
           | projects.
           | 
           | They also seem to have zero organizational understanding of
           | modern requirements engineering even though they talk a big
           | buzzword game with "Design Thinking".
           | 
           | Suffice it to say, I didn't stay long.
        
             | Nursie wrote:
             | > crazy crunch/burnout culture both in my project and
             | utilization-wise
             | 
             | Kinda the opposite of some of my experiences in big blue -
             | in some of the software sides of things, productivity
             | expectations were _so_ low as to be really kinda funny.
             | 
             | You could (and people did) coast along producing not very
             | much for years at a time. Which is probably why entire
             | business areas just got shitcanned every so often. One
             | office in particular operated more like an old-fashioned
             | university campus. There was a yearly release cadence, with
             | 3-5 months of that dedicated purely to merging together the
             | work that the teams had produced over the past 7-9.
        
               | rcbdev wrote:
               | IBM Technology people seemed like that, yeah. I'm talking
               | about IBM Consulting, where most (if not all) hiring
               | seems to be happening recently.
        
           | jxramos wrote:
           | I second this. When you think about it it's a fallacy of the
           | ideal to assume some non-trivial assemblage of humans would
           | be able to be in perfect harmony with each other. That
           | fiction of perfect execution of godlike companies is really a
           | youthful impression when all your exposure is slick marketing
           | campaigns, Hollywood movie representations and other
           | artifacts that a company generates that enter the public
           | square. When you see how the sausage is made it's a shock to
           | all who get to see behind the veneer. Once you get over it
           | you're a lot more forgiving for anything that doesn't meet
           | one's unsubstantiated expectations because as they say life
           | is hard.
        
           | jgilias wrote:
           | I've come to the same conclusion. But not just about
           | companies, but everything. Talk to someone in the military,
           | or government agencies, or working on large infrastructure
           | projects. It's the same story everywhere - chaos. And it's
           | generally not because of malice, being dumb, or lack of
           | trying.
           | 
           | I think as a civilization we're much more like ants than a
           | troop of smart chimps. In that our civilization is a kind of
           | a proverbial emergent anthill. And most likely the relative
           | individual understanding of our respective anthills doesn't
           | differ too much between ants and us.
           | 
           | And it's kind of freeing. You just move your proverbial bit
           | of earth that you're just compelled to put somewhere else,
           | and don't stress the rest. Emergence will take care of it.
        
             | KineticLensman wrote:
             | > But not just about companies, but everything
             | 
             | For me, it's a good argument against conspiracy theories.
             | There's no way there could be secretive organisations
             | running for years and controlling the world without
             | screwing up in stupid and obvious ways.
        
               | jgilias wrote:
               | Yeah. I think anyone who has had experience with
               | school/kindergarten parents chats trying to organize
               | _anything_ would find the idea of shadowy organizations
               | running the world laughable.
        
               | lootsauce wrote:
               | To the contrary does it not imply any well organized
               | group should have an easier time of accomplishing their
               | aims while the rest are mired in the chaos?
        
               | esrauch wrote:
               | The claim is that there are literally no observable
               | organizations running without chaos, so are we to believe
               | the only one to achieve it is nefarious instead of just
               | regular profiteering?
               | 
               | I like the meta conspiracy theory that the only
               | organizations running without chaos are covert ones
               | though.
        
               | tsunamifury wrote:
               | It's more that within that chaos there are short bursts
               | of organization that can pull off narrow conspiracies.
               | 
               | There are also natural long term aligned players who
               | conspire in ways that they can use their energy for their
               | benefit. "Market makers"
               | 
               | There are also random alignments that appear to be
               | conspiracies ex post facto.
        
               | insane_dreamer wrote:
               | > To the contrary does it not imply any well organized
               | group should have an easier time of accomplishing their
               | aims while the rest are mired in the chaos?
               | 
               | This take makes sense to me. It's not the org as a whole
               | that is accomplishing secret aims, but a sub-org within a
               | chaotic org, or spread across multiple chaotic orgs, that
               | is able to do so since no one is paying close attention
               | to anything.
        
               | polynomial wrote:
               | Right, the conspiracy is to destroy things, not build
               | them.
        
             | CabSauce wrote:
             | I think this is the cause of my depression. It's
             | horrendously sad to think about what we could be
             | accomplishing if we were just a little efficient.
        
               | jgilias wrote:
               | Sorry to hear this! I hope you can manage to get out of
               | it, depression can be a real bitch! Do seek help, it's
               | nothing to be ashamed of.
        
               | dtech wrote:
               | Efficient how? Ants are extremely efficient and
               | successful, second only to humans in biomass. Turns out
               | making good global decisions is hard to impossible, so
               | you see decentralized decision making pop up everywhere.
        
               | Towaway69 wrote:
               | Efficiency, trust and cooperation, what an amazing place
               | it could be.
               | 
               | Finding a hobby that provides a little of that helped me.
               | What I also noticed, having spent far too much time in
               | front of a screen and programming, that I began to think
               | of the world as a giant program that is really really
               | buggy. Trying to fix those bugs got me down ... just
               | gotta live with those bugs.
        
               | ElevenLathe wrote:
               | > began to think of the world as a giant program that is
               | really really buggy
               | 
               | I think this is an excellent way to phrase the experience
               | of "programmer brain" and I will be blatantly ripping it
               | off in the future. It's definitely an occupational
               | hazard, and something we should be wary of, but it's only
               | a small symptom of the larger technologized worldview
               | that permeates Western thought (and via export, a lot of
               | global thought). There are definite upsides to technology
               | and programming, but: "we shape our tools, our tools
               | shape us". I think we technologists think a lot about the
               | former, and rarely about the latter (that's for those
               | squishy humanities types!) -- at our own peril.
        
               | Towaway69 wrote:
               | Thank you for ripping it off - I call it sharing :)
               | 
               | > at our own peril.
               | 
               | I always like to quote the frog in water. As the water is
               | heated to boiling point, apparently the frog doesn't
               | spring out. That is, in fact, an urban legend - the frog
               | does spring out. However we are the frogs that don't
               | spring out.
        
               | cameronh90 wrote:
               | Perfect isn't efficient. The loss from wastage and chaos
               | is less than the resources it would take to eliminate it.
        
               | jorvi wrote:
               | Well, everything exists along a gradient.
               | 
               | The example often given is Japan vs the West.
               | 
               | Especially people in the West laud how great Japan its
               | collectivist society is, how streets are clean,
               | relatively little gets stolen, personal responsibility is
               | still a thing, etc; But they completely skip over the
               | other side of the coin: collectivist societies crush much
               | of the independence out of a person.
               | 
               | So, in this one sense, you can trade independence for
               | social "efficiency". I imagine it is much the same for
               | humanity. We could become more harmonized, at the cost of
               | becoming more drone-like.
               | 
               | An interesting book that deals with this exact dilemma
               | (among other things) is "A Deepness In the Sky" by Vernor
               | Vinge. Worth a read!
        
               | tsunamifury wrote:
               | You should consider that you might be the one wrong here.
               | What you think is efficient is just an individual
               | perspective.
               | 
               | I've come to accept this after years of fighting "the
               | system".
               | 
               | The system doesn't care about you or what you want. It is
               | a ruthlessly collective thing and it makes short term
               | mistakes you will pay for but long term builds
               | foundations you benefit from.
               | 
               | Also over and over efficiency in many cases proves to be
               | maladaptive as it kills flexibility.
        
               | hiddencost wrote:
               | We blame large, intractable systems for our problems when
               | it's too dangerous to look at the small, local causes.
        
             | hoseja wrote:
             | Emergence is an agent that isn't me. Why am I even
             | conscious if all my agency is subsumed by the egregore.
             | This isn't freeing in the slightest, maybe only for the
             | most conditioned megacity dwellers.
        
               | jgilias wrote:
               | This couldn't be farther from the truth though. As in, I
               | don't think any place I've even been to would count as a
               | megacity. Let alone where I live.
               | 
               | The way I see it is that emergence is not an agent. More
               | like some basic law of nature. Think about planned
               | gardens and suburbs versus natural forests and medieval
               | city centers.
               | 
               | You can mow your lawn every week, expend obscene amounts
               | of water during the summer, pour everything with
               | herbicides in a misguided effort to have the perfect
               | lawn, but the moment you stop doing it, nature takes over
               | and introduces a fractal amount of complexity in just a
               | few seasons.
               | 
               | In my opinion an old forest where nature has been let
               | alone for some time is much more beautiful and
               | interesting than any planned garden, and a medieval city
               | centre much more beautiful and interesting than any
               | planned neighborhood.
               | 
               | And then, emergence explaining our civilization doesn't
               | necessarily imply that you don't have agency as an
               | individual. It just says that the total of whatever we
               | collectively do, irrespective of if we're compelled to do
               | it, or have free will, results in more than just the sum
               | of individual parts.
        
               | hoseja wrote:
               | Tell it to the choanoflagellates.
               | 
               | The emergent agent isn't a harmonious oak old growth.
               | It's a ravenous, homogenizing beast, primally unable to
               | die; accelerating forever in the red queen race; killing
               | everything that isn't itself, fundamentally unaware and
               | uncaring of the individuals it's made of.
        
               | jgilias wrote:
               | But you don't know that. As in, it's impossible for you
               | (or me) to know that.
               | 
               | I do care about my cells. Like, not individually, but I
               | do care that they are in as good an environment for them
               | as I can muster. I don't think they have any concept of
               | me. Or if they do, I don't think they can reason about
               | how murderous am I.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Within a group of _n_ people, everything else being
               | equal, why would you expect to be able to steer its
               | behavior by more than 1 / _n_ th?
        
               | hoseja wrote:
               | But that's the problem with emergence, you don't even get
               | the 1/n. You get zero, or very near it.
        
               | jgilias wrote:
               | I think you misunderstand what emergence is. It's really
               | not an argument about if you have agency or not in your
               | individual actions.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Well, you had the agency to read HN today, to comment
               | here, and to choose the contents of your comment. So I'm
               | not sure what you're getting at, beyond the well-trodden
               | free-will debate.
        
             | FrustratedMonky wrote:
             | "emergent anthill"
             | 
             | Wonder if this concept could also be Moloch.
             | 
             | Moloch is sometimes used to represent how humans just
             | consume.
             | 
             | And, what do ants do, expand and consume.
             | 
             | More and More I think the ant-human analogy is best.
             | 
             | We are organizing, we form structures, but it isn't a plan,
             | it's just twitching on our feedbacks. We have some loose
             | internal functions to respond to inputs. That when stacked
             | up by millions form some pattern.
             | 
             | Ant's don't have an 'anthill plan' and humans don't have a
             | 'city/town plan'.
             | 
             | Like ants, we just kind of group together and follow the
             | chemical paths laid down by others (coffee, beer).
        
             | schrectacular wrote:
             | Sounds Daoist to me.
        
             | rbanffy wrote:
             | It's kind of a side effect of capitalism. You get the
             | culture of doing more with less and drive it until the
             | point you are doing less than adequate with less money than
             | you'd need to do it properly.
             | 
             | The end result is software that puts postal workers in jail
             | and doors that fall off planes.
        
               | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
               | Like democracy, it sucks, but it's all we have. Depending
               | how you define capitalism (currency, trade, investing in
               | capital?) and software (something executed on a digital
               | or analog computing machine) there was no software
               | 10,000+ years ago before capitalism
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | In the end it's about process and dumbing it down enough
               | that it can be followed by the cheapest resource
               | available (while also pressing down the cost of such
               | resources through managed poverty). This race to the
               | bottom is never good.
               | 
               | As for democracy, it's great, much better than any
               | alternative. It's inconvenient (to the powers of the
               | day), however, that it tries (at least the functional
               | ones) to prevent the widening of the chasm between the
               | haves and the have nots. One thing any functional
               | democracy must aggressively prevent is the acquisition of
               | power from any means other than popular vote.
        
             | Octabrain wrote:
             | My conclusion is that this "chaotic scenario" happens when
             | humans work in big groups. It's extremely hard/pretty much
             | impossible to coordinate big group of humans and made them
             | to work efficiently. In fact, this is one of the reasons by
             | which nowadays, I personally prefer to work on a small
             | start up environment instead of a big corporation.
        
               | MichaelZuo wrote:
               | It is possible, they just need to spend more than half of
               | the work day in coordination meetings and doing
               | paperwork.
               | 
               | And not many organization are willing to pay thousands of
               | people to do paperwork to help other departments do their
               | paperwork more effectively and so on.
               | 
               | Or somehow they found a group of extremely trustworthy
               | and reliable employees who will never fudge the truth
               | even at the cost of their jobs/reputation/etc...
        
           | orzig wrote:
           | Surely it's a matter of degree through? I was at a company
           | with a recently acquired-in product line and the amount of
           | chaos on release day each month was notably higher. I would
           | have described the original product's development process as
           | _awkward_ but way less bad than the new one.
        
           | justsomehnguy wrote:
           | > Then, after I start I realize every company is operating on
           | chaos, barely putting one foot in front of the other.
           | 
           | I've seen and been in enough situations where a quite
           | moderate changes could had improved QoL of the company people
           | and conseq. the company itself.
           | 
           | How many times I was paid for that? Zero.
           | 
           | Add to that 'yes, we see it would be better for us, but
           | [bullshit reason]'.
        
           | heresie-dabord wrote:
           | > every company is just running one day at a time
           | 
           | And every day, one decision at a time, it is the quality,
           | skills, and integrity of the _people_ that make an
           | organisation 's culture, capabililty, and sustainability.
           | 
           | An organisation without a culture that attracts talent and
           | maintains integrity in its decisions is nothing but a licence
           | to burn money squatting in a building.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I know a pretty senior person who went to Apple and they
           | boomeranged after about 6 months. At scale, there's a high
           | level of chaos just about everywhere.
        
           | rbanffy wrote:
           | Even in a segment as rigorously regulated as aerospace,
           | Boeing ended up with planes that fly into the ground and lose
           | doors while flying.
           | 
           | The horrors we see in any corporate-grade software-intensive
           | company where development is a cost would drive H. P.
           | Lovecraft to madness.
        
           | shever73 wrote:
           | I call this the "shiny window effect".
           | 
           | 30 years ago, when I started my first business from a
           | converted garage, I used to think about all of the chaos I
           | had to deal with. I'd look at the big companies with their
           | shiny, mirror glass windows and think "when we're that size,
           | we'll have it all figured out".
           | 
           | Then we started working for these large companies. We were
           | supplying IT solutions to try help them deal with their
           | chaos. I realised then that the only difference between them
           | and us was the shiny windows and the scale of their chaos.
           | 
           | I apply this on a human level too. There's not one of us that
           | has it all figured out, despite outward appearances.
        
           | jmclnx wrote:
           | >What ive learned in my career is that all companies are
           | operating on a knife's edge
           | 
           | I guess you never worked for a Large Drug Company. I have a
           | relative working for one (low-level employee) and pretty much
           | on the way home, you pick up your bag of money bonus leaving
           | every day :)
           | 
           | The benefits are 100x better that anything I have ever had in
           | tech. Plus everyone gets stock bonuses and money bonuses when
           | a new product is successful. And working from home, sure, why
           | not.
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | Yeah, agree about the sale to Lenovo. That's when they became
         | just another "body shop" like Accenture or Deloitte.
        
           | rcbdev wrote:
           | This business - which they run under IBM Consulting in EMEA -
           | they also bought off of PwC in the early 2000s.
        
         | bitcharmer wrote:
         | Just another sad example of the MBA caste ruining an
         | organization built on engineering excellence.
        
         | miroljub wrote:
         | > IBM's cost structure and bloat just meant they couldn't
         | compete in all but the most profitable product lines.
         | 
         | That's the key to IBM success and longevity. Despite blatant
         | incompetence, they have been pretty good at riding every single
         | high margin fad in the industry.
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | > A giant red flag was when they decided they couldn't compete
         | in the commoditized x86 server market
         | 
         | In general I would agree it's not great to compete in a
         | commodity segment if you can focus on differentiated products.
         | You can make the same amount of cash from high-volume low-
         | margin product or a low-volume high-margin product, with the
         | latter generating sizeable IP you can also generate money from.
         | 
         | The split between HP and HPE is one example: HP gets the high-
         | volume no-added-value segment and HPE tries to rebuild what was
         | systematically killed by its descent into generic x86 hardware.
         | They have very little headroom there, as HP/UX is on life-
         | support and their high end has been stagnant for years.
        
           | avhception wrote:
           | The user experience for random x86 servers is utter garbage,
           | especially at the low- to mid-tier. Bug-riddled firmware,
           | weird licensing schemes for some features, IPMI is complete
           | crap. Salespeople stuck in the 90s who can't get their head
           | around the fact that I want an HBA for my ZFS, not some
           | convoluted "RAID solution". Updating firmware is an
           | adventure. Middlemen who all seem to think you'll be running
           | Windows, again, stuck in the 90s or 2000s. I'd gladly pay a
           | premium for something better here.
        
             | rbanffy wrote:
             | > I'd gladly pay a premium for something better here.
             | 
             | Unfortunately, the people who know better rarely are the
             | same people who signs the checks.
        
       | jameshart wrote:
       | The article leans on the significant change of emphasis renaming
       | from CTR (computing, tabulating, recording) to IBM (business
       | machines) implies - but doesn't lampshade the more specific
       | contrast the name makes with Thomas J Watson's previous employer,
       | and the company IBM was trying to outcompete: NCR. Where NCR was
       | 'national', IBM was international. Where NCR handled 'cash', IBM
       | handled 'business'. And where NCR made only 'registers', IBM made
       | all manner of 'machines'.
        
         | fuzztester wrote:
         | A bit like IBM and HAL ...
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_9000
         | 
         | The section "Origin of name"
        
           | HeadlessChild wrote:
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_9000#Origin_of_name
        
           | Findecanor wrote:
           | Something missing from the wikipedia article:
           | 
           | There used to be a convention among engineering students at
           | the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Illinois to name
           | their student projects "HAL" _because_ it was one letter off
           | from IBM.  "HAL Communications" was founded by alumni.
           | 
           | Arthur C Clarke claimed he put the "HAL" plant in Illinois
           | only because he had a friend who was a professor there. He
           | also claimed he didn't know about the student connection.
        
       | somat wrote:
       | My favorite piece of IBM gear: The computing cheese cutter.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8VhNF_0I5c (hand tool rescue)
        
         | MikeTheGreat wrote:
         | Just happened to jump to the exact point where he explains why
         | / how it's a "computing" cheese cutter; if you're curious too
         | you can find the explanation at the 42:30 mark:
         | https://youtu.be/z8VhNF_0I5c?si=X4TmA1rxIzB9AcPo&t=2552
        
       | MichaelMoser123 wrote:
       | they don't like to mention the role of Dehomag, their German
       | subsidiary - but it is also part of their history.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehomag
        
         | angiosperm wrote:
         | IBM got back all the money Dehomag got in rent from the Nazis,
         | and all the machines they rented.
         | 
         | TJ Watson was _personally_ awarded the Iron Cross by Hitler for
         | his contribution to their efforts at a  "final solution". He
         | gave it back reluctantly after the US declared war.
        
           | Nursie wrote:
           | AFAICT it was the " Order of the German Eagle", and he
           | returned the medal in 1940, a year before the US declared
           | war.
           | 
           | It's still pretty shameful, but details are important too.
        
             | zabzonk wrote:
             | germany declared war on the us
        
               | hugg wrote:
               | yeah, germany declared war first, but the US also
               | declared war on germany
        
         | hermitcrab wrote:
         | Yes, that deeply shameful episode definitely shouldn't be left
         | out of any retrospective of IBM's last 100 years. They clearly
         | knew what the machines were being used for deeply malign ends,
         | even if they didn't know the exact details of what was
         | happening.
        
       | bt3 wrote:
       | Reading the comments here, largely negative pointing, I couldn't
       | help but recently feel like IBM was really impressive with their
       | work on Quantum System 2 [1]. I'm not knowledgable enough to know
       | if there's really progress in what they presented, but it seemed
       | to help justify why this is still a $160B+ company.
       | 
       | [1] https://newsroom.ibm.com/2023-12-04-IBM-Debuts-Next-
       | Generati...
        
         | isoprophlex wrote:
         | So, what can it actually do? Factor the number 21 into 3 and 7,
         | but using quantum computing?
        
           | cubefox wrote:
           | The future practical applications of quantum computing remain
           | a mystery.
        
       | pram wrote:
       | For a positive IBM reminiscence: I was really impressed by their
       | AIX support staff. It was one of the very few times in my career
       | that I felt like I was speaking to someone from a vendor who
       | actually understood the product at a deep level. They helped
       | resolve some very obscure bootloader/kernel issues.
       | 
       | Of course that was almost 20 years ago, I'm sure everything has
       | gone to shit by now lol
        
         | Palomides wrote:
         | they moved AIX development to India last year and laid off the
         | US developers
        
       | m463 wrote:
       | which was 2 years after the _other_ IBM...
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Brotherhood_of_M...
        
       | vb-8448 wrote:
       | My former boss used to spell IBM as International Business Mafia,
       | especially when we were going thought the renewal of the
       | maintenance contracts.
        
         | urxvtcd wrote:
         | It's Better Manually
        
           | vb-8448 wrote:
           | I don't get it
        
       | dvh wrote:
       | The I in FAANG stands for IBM
        
         | dade_ wrote:
         | It's in the A-Hole
        
         | hardware2win wrote:
         | It isnt faang anymore - now we have mag7
        
       | piokoch wrote:
       | Well. IBM, the "tech" company we all remember from cool servers,
       | AIX, OS400 and other innovative technologies, that were used all
       | over the world for various purposes - from banks and airlines to
       | supporting Germans to send Jews to concentration camps bankrupted
       | in 1993.
       | 
       | In 1993 IMB was converted into one more consulting companies,
       | like McKinsey, Accenture or Deloitte. Nowadays IBM "tech" part is
       | mostly PR, as most of the "tech" was sold, with a notable
       | exception which is IBM Z Series.
        
         | sofixa wrote:
         | > as most of the "tech" was sold, with a notable exception
         | which is IBM Z Series
         | 
         | And IBM Cloud, which is quite niche.
        
           | jerlam wrote:
           | And IBM Cloud is an acquisition - it's from Softlayer which
           | IBM purchased in 2013. Likely any new IBM tech is going to be
           | a rebranded acquisition. It's just a revolving door.
        
       | zoobab wrote:
       | IBM is a patent troll:
       | 
       | http://zoobab.wikidot.com/ibm-turbohercules-patent-threat-le...
        
       | thebiglebrewski wrote:
       | Isn't IBM responsible for the massive systems failure in the NYC
       | Public School system yesterday when they were supposed to be
       | doing "remote learning" for the snow day?
       | 
       | When I heard this on NPR, I couldn't believe the city used them
       | as a vendor for authentication instead of like AWS, Google Cloud,
       | Auth0, etc.
       | 
       | People probably will get fired for choosing IBM, contrary to the
       | old tagline.
        
       | mass_and_energy wrote:
       | "thinking I'd learn how they ran truly global projects." ...
       | Watson Business Machines has entered the chat. The Holocaust
       | couldn't have happened without IBM's help, they're war criminals
       | that we allow to conduct business because... Why?
        
         | psunavy03 wrote:
         | IBM's current staff are war criminals?
        
           | mass_and_energy wrote:
           | Well in the USA companies have the same rights as an
           | individual, so doesn't it seem fair to hold them to the same
           | legal standard of what is and isn't considered genocide? Or
           | the fact that between the years of 1941 and 1945 they
           | actively engaged in trade with a country their country was at
           | war with, a federal crime of no small stature?
        
       | zubairq wrote:
       | Amazing history of IBM, thanks
        
       | dav_Oz wrote:
       | A very dark chapter of IBM - to me common knowledge - but only a
       | few days ago I've touched this topic with a much younger person,
       | provocatively stating: "Well, IBM provided the technology for the
       | first heavily automated genocide and forced labor allocation"
       | _Hollerith erfasst._ He didn 't believe me.
       | 
       | So, granted Dehomag[0] was _only_ an IBM subsidiary, there is
       | some evidence that IBM 's US-headquarter was well informed and
       | decided do not forgo the excellent business relationship and thus
       | large profits (funneled through Switzerland).[1][2]
       | 
       | However the case might be here, it is nevertheless a cautionary
       | tale how the ease of mass data collection can immensely leverage
       | (bad) intent.
       | 
       | [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehomag
       | 
       | [1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/29/humanities.hig..
       | .
       | 
       | [2]https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0609607995/theameric..
       | .
        
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