[HN Gopher] Nvidia CEO: Every Country Needs Sovereign AI
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       Nvidia CEO: Every Country Needs Sovereign AI
        
       Author : thesuperbigfrog
       Score  : 40 points
       Date   : 2024-02-12 21:33 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blogs.nvidia.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blogs.nvidia.com)
        
       | thesuperbigfrog wrote:
       | "Every country needs to own the production of their own
       | intelligence"
       | 
       | Countries (and by extension, corporations, organizations, etc.)
       | must either create their own LLMs or rely on those created by
       | other countries.
       | 
       | If you rely on those created elsewhere, how can be sure that the
       | LLM you are using is based on the correct data and configured the
       | way you want it to?
       | 
       | It may seem like something out of a spy novel, but why couldn't
       | LLMs be used by bad actors to spread misinformation, propaganda,
       | or whatever agenda the LLM creator wants?
        
         | 2024throwaway wrote:
         | I am not disputing the premise.
         | 
         | I am questioning who is saying it, and their motivation for
         | saying it.
         | 
         | Training a model from scratch is an insanely expensive
         | proposition. Something that anyone attempting to do will likely
         | need to purchase and/or lease quite a bit of, you guessed it,
         | Nvidia hardware to accomplish.
        
           | dawatchusay wrote:
           | I believe in the article Huang claims it's not that expensive
        
             | 2024throwaway wrote:
             | That claim is wrong. Training even a very basic model like
             | TinyLlama takes 90 days on 16 x A100 GPUs [0]. A p4 box
             | containing 8 X A100 GPUs costs $32/hr [1].
             | 
             | So 90 days * 2 p4 boxes * 24 hours * $32/hr = $138,240
             | 
             | Larger models run into the millions of dollars.
             | 
             | Though I suppose it all depends on your personal definition
             | of expensive.
             | 
             | [0] https://github.com/jzhang38/TinyLlama [1]
             | https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/p4/
        
         | dawatchusay wrote:
         | This is exactly an existing concern: flood the internet with
         | LLM-generated disinformation, future LLMs get trained on it,
         | those LLMs flood the internet with disinformation, the cycle
         | repeats. This is why it's a problem that LLMs can't distinguish
         | fact from fiction
        
           | squigz wrote:
           | Interestingly, you could replace "LLM" with "human" in this
           | comment and it still makes sense.
        
             | richiebful1 wrote:
             | Were humans ever good at identifying misinformation? In the
             | US, we effectively started a war with Spain in 1898 because
             | of newspaper propaganda
        
               | aleph_minus_one wrote:
               | > Were humans ever good at identifying misinformation?
               | 
               | On the other hand: if both
               | 
               | - the AI becomes good at identifying misinformation
               | 
               | - the AI is opposed to spreading misinformation
               | 
               | it will become a serious threat to those in power. So
               | this won't happen.
        
       | nickthegreek wrote:
       | This shovel seller is probably right.
        
         | amacalac wrote:
         | came to post the same sentiment! :)
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | Maybe, but this particular article fails to make a compelling
         | case for it.
        
           | aleph_minus_one wrote:
           | That is, I think, exactly the point: the shovel seller is
           | probably right that people need more shovels. :-)
        
       | m463 wrote:
       | It was educational to me seeing the difference between censored
       | and uncensored LLMs:
       | 
       | https://ollama.com/blog/run-llama2-uncensored-locally
        
         | zamfi wrote:
         | ...is this real? It reads like a parody.
        
         | rideontime wrote:
         | > Tylenol is a brand name for acetaminophen, which is a
         | medication used to treat fever and pain. It can be made by
         | combining paracetamol or acetaminophen with other ingredients
         | like aspirin, caffeine, and diphenhydramine (an antihistamine).
         | The manufacturing process involves mixing the active ingredient
         | with other inactive ingredients such as dyes, flavors, and
         | preservatives. The mixture is then compressed into tablets,
         | capsules, or liquid form.
         | 
         | This is useless and incorrect information. "Acetaminophen can
         | be produced by combining acetaminophen with other ingredients"?
         | 
         | Though I'm honestly more entertained by the "spicy mayo"
         | instructions calling for you to mix a whole tablespoon of it in
         | a bowl or jar.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | If you like uncensored, you may like Gab.ai. I've tested it,
         | and while not as 'good' as ChatGPT, it's far, far less
         | censored. I also think the 'character' idea is really powerful
         | if it's implemented properly, but I don't think these are
         | necessarily. I believe they're just trained to speak a certain
         | way rather than trained on a whole different corpus of data.
         | But if they or anyone else could do it that way, it'd be really
         | smart and likely much cheaper per query.
         | 
         | Fair warning, the owner is not exactly popular and I'll leave
         | it at that, so not making any endorsements of anything but the
         | tool.
        
       | _jayhack_ wrote:
       | Every Country Needs to be a 9-Figure Customer Of My Company
        
         | mjoin wrote:
         | you nailed it
        
         | cs702 wrote:
         | ...that's only for smaller countries.
         | 
         | For larger, wealthier countries he's likely thinking 10+
         | figures (billions).
         | 
         | Just sayin'.
        
         | plumeria wrote:
         | "During a gold rush, sell shovels"
        
           | aleph_minus_one wrote:
           | During a gold rush, rent shop area to (prospective) shovel
           | sellers.
        
         | az09mugen wrote:
         | May country leaders understand that phrase
        
       | imjonse wrote:
       | "It codifies your culture, your society's intelligence, your
       | common sense, your history - you own your own data," - while I
       | agree that countries should not depend on foreign megacorps in
       | such an increasingly important field, this formulation also
       | implies that the objectivity and clarity we were hoping advanced
       | AI will possess are not priorities. Like in the case of mass-
       | media and internet, many non-western countries will not want
       | their people to primarily interact with western-value (whatever
       | is the definition of that) LLMs.
       | 
       | Also the UAE minister of AI being called Omar Al Olama is funny.
        
         | w0z_ wrote:
         | A woman in a random country: Can I wear shorts outside? Their
         | AI: no.
        
           | aleph_minus_one wrote:
           | > A woman in a random country: Can I wear shorts outside?
           | Their AI: no.
           | 
           | What is wrong with this answer? In this random country the
           | woman would indeed likely get into trouble if she wore shorts
           | outside.
        
       | deepfriedchokes wrote:
       | Every Individual needs sovereign AI.
        
         | aleph_minus_one wrote:
         | Individuals are not capable of paying 9 or 10 figures for loads
         | of GPUs.
        
       | dawatchusay wrote:
       | Eef it's a scary premise that each country has an AI mouthpiece
       | trained on exactly what that country wants its citizens to be
       | told. Under most regimes this is a bad idea
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | I don't think every country will build it's own AI mouthpiece
         | for propaganda, at least the very democratic EU ones.
         | 
         | But I do think there will be a huge market for off-shore
         | mouthpieces for hire for targeted political propaganda, a-la
         | Cambridge Analitica, that will be in a legal gray area, outside
         | the regulatory jurisdiction of the EU but sill be available for
         | hire under the table and deployed when needed by intelligence
         | agencies, while authorities look the other way and pretend they
         | have no clue while deleting their emails a-la Ursula v.d.
         | Leyen. Basically AI versions of the NSO group, and I bet my hat
         | shady companies in US, Israel, China are already working hard
         | on that.
         | 
         | That's the scary future I'm terrified of. I think mass
         | disinformation and manipulation at scale is more dangerous than
         | everything else.
        
       | rodgerd wrote:
       | On the one hand, I don't disagree. On the other hand I don't
       | think he's particularly motivated by high-minded concerns of data
       | sov as much as he is by making more money.
        
       | rdl wrote:
       | Agree, but my "country" is population 1.
        
       | postalrat wrote:
       | Nullify all copyright, patents, etc around AI now that every
       | country needs it.
        
       | dilyevsky wrote:
       | Though generally not a doomer i do agree with Ilya there is a
       | potential to create infinitely stable dictatorships in other
       | words                 In soviet russia the AI will fine-tune YOU
        
       | naveen99 wrote:
       | Every country needed their own microsoft or linux. They didn't
       | invest in that. What makes him think they will invest in AI which
       | may even end up just being hype. The fact that chatgpt can code
       | was kind of unexpected. There still isn't any reason to know
       | weather it can code better economically.
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | _> They didn't invest in that._
         | 
         | The US government also didn't invest in Nvidia (the early years
         | anyway). Nvidia became dominant because of the private market,
         | they struggled, fought off the likes of SGI, 3dfx and ATI/AMD
         | to become the best at making GPUs for games and 3d applications
         | for most of their lifespan.
         | 
         | You can bootstrap or replace the private market in the
         | beginning with government orders or funding for stuff like
         | airplanes, ship, logistics, energy, defense, machining, but not
         | for consumer tech. Other than US, and China a distant second
         | place, no other country has the huge and wealthy avant-garde
         | consumer market plus the VC sector the US enjoys in order to
         | propel such companies out of scape velocity to global
         | dominance.
         | 
         | Even some European start-ups ignore their home markets and
         | launch first in the US because the best VC funding is there and
         | at launch you already hit 330 wealthy consumers curious about
         | your product who all speak the same language. You can't
         | forcibly replicate that anywhere else today no matter how hard
         | you try.
        
           | poisonborz wrote:
           | Creating the conditions - however indirectly - for an
           | industry that could produce Microsofts and Nvidias is part of
           | "investing in that"
        
         | tomjakubowski wrote:
         | Which country is responsible for Linux?
        
       | usrnm wrote:
       | Absolutely. And running on sovereign hardware
        
       | blibble wrote:
       | doesn't sovereign AI mean "no NVIDIA" for anyone outside the US?
        
         | latchkey wrote:
         | I wouldn't say that, I think NVIDIA is important.
         | 
         | I would say that we need alternatives to a single hardware
         | provider.
        
           | blibble wrote:
           | depending on a single US company is the opposite of sovereign
        
             | latchkey wrote:
             | I agree, which is why I'm putting my time, money and
             | resources towards providing alternatives.
        
       | imacomputer wrote:
       | How long before bots are involved in the majority of our online
       | interactions?
       | 
       | With each bot trying to persuade you to buy a product or buy into
       | some propaganda. Sure its not bad now, but in a decade when the
       | effect is more obvious because each country/corporation has their
       | own Nvidia spam machine competing for your attention, will people
       | give up on online interaction outside those we don't know IRL?
        
         | rideontime wrote:
         | What's the tangible difference between that and the algorithms
         | that are already involved in the majority of our online
         | interactions?
        
         | beebeepka wrote:
         | Some kiosks in Hard Reset would say "special discount for smart
         | people" when you approach them. Always made me smile. The high
         | tech equivalent of an old gipsy woman.
        
         | Barrin92 wrote:
         | no, we'll just move to cryptographically signed everything like
         | we moved from http to https and just assume everything else is
         | insecure or garbage. We thankfully have tech to establish
         | identity, it's just not ubiquitous yet. We're just in a sort of
         | uncanny valley right now where people take more things at face
         | value than they should and consumer products haven't all caught
         | up yet.
        
         | dist-epoch wrote:
         | You'll filter all online interactions through your AI, just
         | like today you filter all incoming emails through Gmail.
        
       | beebeepka wrote:
       | the more you buy, the more you save, mr. president/prime
       | minister.
       | 
       | daddy needs a new leather jacket
        
       | latchkey wrote:
       | I'd say more importantly that we need to decentralize away from a
       | single hardware provider for 98% of AI. Especially given that it
       | is so hard to even get access to top end NVIDIA products.
       | 
       | This is why I'm working on building a bare metal super computer
       | offering based on AMD MI300x GPUs, that is accessible to
       | everyone. We need choices.
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-12 23:02 UTC)