[HN Gopher] US rail safety legislation stalled one year after Ea...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       US rail safety legislation stalled one year after East Palestine
       Ohio disaster
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 162 points
       Date   : 2024-02-12 19:43 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wlbt.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wlbt.com)
        
       | Spivak wrote:
       | > Members of Congress blast industry for putting profits over
       | safety
       | 
       | Headlines like this make me laugh because it sounds like
       | something is getting done when it's just congresspeople with no
       | actual power making grand speeches that amount to nothing. They
       | really gave those profiteers a real Congressional finger wag!
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | It seems odd to criticize an elected representative who
         | comments on the irresponsible behavior of corporations.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | Because they can't actually do anything. They don't charge
           | people with negligence or levy fines. The opinion of a
           | congressman on this issue is only slightly more valuable than
           | mine. The regulations they're proposing won't be punitive in
           | any way and won't dare actually disrupt the flow of profits.
           | 
           | And that's fine, that's the point of congress. Now if the DoJ
           | had words to this effect then it might come to something.
        
             | hospadar wrote:
             | counterpoint: the amount of money that congresspeople and
             | potential congress people are paid by corps and interest
             | groups to get elected (i.e. "a lot") suggest that, in fact,
             | their opinions _are_ much more valuable then a non-
             | congresspersons.
        
           | JoshTko wrote:
           | The attitude probably reflects decades of effective messaging
           | by big corporations to paint gov as inefficient and
           | corporations as the only solution to problems.
        
           | ejb999 wrote:
           | Doesn't seem odd to me - if all someone (an elected person)
           | does is get in front of the camera and make speeches about
           | something a corporation is doing wrong - but never
           | writes/sponsors a bill (and more importantly gets the votes
           | to get it written into law) to fix those bad things - then
           | they are doing exactly _zero_ to make things better - they
           | deserve all the criticism they get.
        
       | happytiger wrote:
       | Did it "stall?"
       | 
       | Did they "blast the industry?"
       | 
       | Because they cashed their checks.
       | 
       | https://www.opensecrets.org/industries//summary?cycle=All&in...
       | 
       | Edit:
       | 
       | They are demanding that they cover the cost:
       | 
       | https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/northeast-ohio/ohio-...
       | 
       | While the same quoted congressperson had time to get behind rail
       | initiatives while safety stalled out:
       | 
       | https://kaptur.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/kaptur-...
       | 
       | Oh, _and found 10M_ from the Federal government to quietly pay
       | for the upgrades:
       | 
       | https://kaptur.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/congres...
       | 
       | I am no expert here, but it sure seems like a lot of railroad
       | stuff is happening and money moving around for a "stalled out"
       | safety initiative. Maybe someone else can provide more context?
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | Who is they? Legitimately: I can't figure out if I'm accessing
         | the links wrong on mobile, or if they shape shifts across the 3
         | links
        
           | rhcom2 wrote:
           | Members of Congress
        
             | happytiger wrote:
             | Thanks. I'm not sure if the links are working properly.
             | They are working for me but two of them as very slow loads
             | on my mobile.
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | FTA:
         | 
         | "That sentiment, was echoed by U.S. Senator Sherrod Brown,
         | D-Ohio, who sponsored the Rail Safety Act in the Senate and
         | held a virtual press conference this week to talk about the
         | stalled legislation. Both Brown and Kaptur said lobbying groups
         | and major rail companies continue to oppose the legislation,
         | with the industry putting profits over public safety."
         | 
         | I mean, you're not exposing some conspiracy. Several
         | Republicans with key committee seats took a ton of money and
         | are now opposing the bill. Voters know who they are and are
         | free to vote them out of office, but they probably won't.
        
         | FemmeAndroid wrote:
         | When you filter by election cycle it looks like they aren't
         | making any huge donations compared to their baseline. Maybe the
         | baseline donations stop things like this, but I don't think I'd
         | jump to that being the clear reason.
        
         | hanniabu wrote:
         | > Maybe someone else can provide more context?
         | 
         | Corruption
        
       | kiba wrote:
       | We need investments in rail infrastructure to take trucks off the
       | road and to improve safety and to keep goods moving.
       | 
       | For some reason, our railroad are privately owned rather than
       | owned by the states or the fed.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _For some reason, our railroad are privately owned rather
         | than owned by the states or the fed_
         | 
         | Who do you think built them? We have the world's largest rail
         | network for a reason.
        
           | bugglebeetle wrote:
           | And yet the Chinese rail network is infinitely more
           | productive, smaller in size, transports millions of people
           | around a comparably sized country, in addition to the inputs
           | and outputs of its massive industrial base, and is largely a
           | state construction. It would seem that extent of rail is not
           | the measure of value here, nor is that correlated with
           | private ownership, but instead we should assess the overall
           | productive capacity of the infrastructure.
        
             | jdlshore wrote:
             | You're comparing a passenger rail system to a freight rail
             | system. Totally different beasts.
        
               | bugglebeetle wrote:
               | ...as the parent did when they asserted that the US has
               | the largest rail network, which encompasses both, so no,
               | not really "totally different beasts."
        
               | sitharus wrote:
               | Lets quickly check Wikipedia
               | 
               | China:
               | 
               | Total length: 155,000 km (100,000 km electrified)
               | 
               | Total passenger/km: (1,470.66 billion passenger-
               | kilometres, 2019)
               | 
               | Total freight: 3,018 billion cargo tonne-kilometres
               | (2019)
               | 
               | US:
               | 
               | Total length: 257,722 km (160,141 mi) (I can't find
               | figures on electrified length, seems at most 2000km?)
               | 
               | Total passenger/km: (10.3 billion, 2014)
               | 
               | Total freight: 1.71 trillion short ton-mile, approx 963
               | billion tonne-kilometres (I used wolfram alpha for that
               | conversion)
               | 
               | So if my calculations are correct - which they may not be
               | - on fewer rails China transports an order of magnitude
               | more passenger and freight traffic.
        
               | anonexpat wrote:
               | 94% of China's population lives in the 43% of the country
               | closest to the ocean.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heihe%E2%80%93Tengchong_Lin
               | e
        
               | ses1984 wrote:
               | What percent of people in the US live in the 43% of the
               | country closest to the ocean?
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | Your conversion is wrong. 1 mile is about 1.6 kilometers;
               | 1 short ton is about 0.9 tonnes. One short ton-mile will
               | be about 1.5 tonne-kilometers.
        
               | AnthonyMouse wrote:
               | Rail networks aren't capacity-limited by the number of
               | miles of track and China has three times the population.
               | 
               | But the premise is meaningless. It's easy for a
               | government to affect the usage of something by
               | subsidizing it or constraining alternatives to it, which
               | has little to do with whether it would be more efficient
               | or well-managed as a public agency.
        
             | Almondsetat wrote:
             | Chinese rail network is a money sink
        
             | onepointsixC wrote:
             | Infinitely more productive? That's a claim. China's rail
             | has $900B in loans, and profits haven't covered servicing
             | that debt for nearly a decade.
        
             | volkl48 wrote:
             | US freight rail moves roughly 40% of the cargo in the
             | country, China's moves about 15% (and is in long
             | stagnation/decline in terms of how much it moves). Roughly
             | 80% of what moves within China does so by an endless sea of
             | trucks.
             | 
             | That's a pretty huge difference in terms of modal share.
             | 
             | And even with the sprawling size of the US network (and
             | differences in things like labor costs), US freight rail is
             | still more efficient at moving cargo in terms of costs.
        
               | bugglebeetle wrote:
               | > That's a pretty huge difference in terms of modal
               | share.
               | 
               | Now do comparison of transporting people and that's
               | impact on the economy
        
           | kevingadd wrote:
           | Wasn't much of the US rail network funded by a public-private
           | partnership? Why should the rails be privately owned? Didn't
           | the government provide a lot of the land, too?
        
             | davidw wrote:
             | The checkerboard pattern you see in Oregon's forests from a
             | satellite are because the government gave away a crapload
             | of land to fund railroad development
             | 
             | https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7155994,-122.829874,73748m/
             | d...
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_and_California_Railroa
             | d...
        
           | jacoblambda wrote:
           | > Who do you think built them? We have the world's largest
           | rail network for a reason.
           | 
           | I don't know if shear size is a great way to evaluate what
           | method of rail ownership is superior. The US is literally the
           | third largest country on earth so it makes sense that we have
           | a lot of "largests" when it comes to infrastructure networks.
           | 
           | What probably would make more sense would be a rail density
           | metric instead. Something like km of rail per sq km of land
           | would work (but has it's own flaws). But that metric then
           | shows a number of other countries that clearly beat the US
           | despite having nationalised or hybrid rail networks.
           | 
           | A good example would be Japan which has roughly triple as
           | much rail relative to the size of their country and I doubt
           | many people would argue that Japan's rail network is less
           | effective than the US rail network.
        
             | briankelly wrote:
             | In the US, rail is used for freight, while in Japan it's
             | used for passengers. Both are successful in their own ways
             | but Japan's rail network is much more visible.
        
               | jacoblambda wrote:
               | Oh for sure but that's a very different discussion than
               | just "largest rail network" as a qualifier for success.
               | 
               | If we want to talk freight utilisation, Japanese freight
               | rail usage is low because of the country's
               | geography/generally easy access to water/maritime
               | shipping (since shipping by water is always more
               | cost/energy effective per tonne relative to rail).
               | 
               | So a comparable example in that case would be China who
               | has similar geography, a similar sized country, and a
               | rail network roughly 70% the size of the US rail network
               | (#2 largest network). However China moves nearly 3x more
               | raw mass per year relative to the US and 50% more tonne
               | kilometers per year relative to the US.
               | 
               | Point being that US freight rail is massive because it
               | geographically and economically makes sense for it to be
               | so. Similar networks exist in other countries that take
               | nationalised or hybrid rail approaches yet those
               | countries consistently outperform US rail in basically
               | every metric but shear size.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | > shipping by water is always more cost/energy effective
               | per tonne relative to rail
               | 
               | Is that true? I always thought it was the other way
               | around. Rail has relatively low rolling resistance so I
               | thought it would take a lot less energy to move the same
               | weight by rail compared to water.
        
               | quickthrowman wrote:
               | Try this experiment: Attempt to push a boat while
               | swimming in the water, then try to push the same boat
               | while it is on a trailer on land.
               | 
               | Which one is easier to move?
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | Yeah, I can see that.
               | 
               | At the same time, swimming speed isn't very useful for
               | anybody. What are the relative energy requirements to
               | move ten thousand pounds at 30 mph in the water vs on
               | rails?
        
               | jacoblambda wrote:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transp
               | ort...
               | 
               | > | transport mode | Fuel consumption |
               | 
               | > | ---------------------- | BTU per short ton-mile | kJ
               | per tonne-kilometre |
               | 
               | > | Domestic waterborne | 217 | 160 |
               | 
               | > | Class 1 railroads | 289 | 209 |
               | 
               | > | Heavy trucks | 3,357 | 2,426 |
               | 
               | > | Air freight (approx.) | 9,600 | 6,900 |
               | 
               | In other words waterborne freight is generally around 25%
               | cheaper energy wise and far easier/cheaper to scale
               | capacity relative to rail.
               | 
               | It's also worth looking at some of the other numbers on
               | that page. German numbers work out ocean freight to be
               | over 3x cheaper energywise per tkm relative to rail.
        
               | quickthrowman wrote:
               | River barges are more efficient than trains, see the two
               | sources below as well as the sibling comment.
               | 
               | > Per one gallon of fuel:
               | 
               | > A truck can carry one ton of cargo just 59 miles.
               | 
               | > By rail, one ton of cargo can travel 202 miles.
               | 
               | > An inland barge can carry one ton of cargo 514 miles.
               | 
               | https://www.portoflittlerock.com/2023/10/the-benefits-of-
               | riv...
               | 
               | > The study shows that barges can move a ton of cargo 647
               | miles with a single gallon of fuel, an increase from an
               | earlier estimate of 616 miles. In contrast, trains can
               | move the same ton of cargo 477 miles per gallon, and
               | trucks can move the same ton of cargo 145 miles per
               | gallon.
               | 
               | > https://maritime-executive.com/article/barge-transport-
               | wins-....
        
               | briankelly wrote:
               | Yeah I think China is a more fit comparison and
               | highlights what the issue is in the US - very little
               | central planning authority. People discuss the American
               | "government" like it's a monolith when it's fiefdoms at
               | all levels; it's not surprising we can't build anything
               | anymore.
        
               | kiba wrote:
               | The problem is not the lack of centralized authority,
               | it's the vetocracy, gridlock, and political resistance to
               | anything that's not car-based pattern of development.
               | 
               | Notice that we managed to build an interstate system and
               | lot of other infrastructure.
        
               | briankelly wrote:
               | I was referring to the problems you describe by that. All
               | that infrastructure got built with PWA era pork barrel
               | politics and many of the projects were highly illogical.
               | The books The Power Broker and Cadillac Desert dissect
               | these issues, the latter focusing on our hydrology infra
               | which is as at least as, if not way more stupid than our
               | roads.
               | 
               | You're right though that it's not exactly about it being
               | centralized.
        
               | jacoblambda wrote:
               | We only managed to build an interstate system via a
               | massive, centralised effort by the federal government to
               | plan out and fund construction of the interstate highway
               | system.
               | 
               | The yellow book (designed by the federal govt) maps
               | extremely closely to what became the final interstate
               | system.
               | 
               | The states did the actual building and own the actual
               | land but the federal govt told them where to build, gave
               | them the money, and otherwise forced their hand into the
               | construction.
               | 
               | I'm not necessarily saying federal control over all
               | infrastructure is a good thing but it really was in large
               | part due to the federal government that the interstate
               | system actually happened.
        
           | tremon wrote:
           | _Who do you think built them?_
           | 
           | Slaves?
        
             | newsclues wrote:
             | Capitalist.
             | 
             | Exploitation and cheating sure, but the railroads are
             | recent.
        
               | skyyler wrote:
               | https://railroads.unl.edu/topics/slavery.php
               | 
               | The slaves were also recent.
               | 
               | >Southern railroad companies began buying slaves as early
               | as the 1840s and used enslaved labor almost exclusively
               | to construction their lines. Thousands of African
               | Americans worked on the southern railroads in the 1850s
               | 
               | There is a temporal overlap between "slave america" and
               | "railroad america".
        
               | newsclues wrote:
               | Slavery didn't account for the majority of railroads
               | built
        
         | jMyles wrote:
         | > rather than owned by the states or the fed.
         | 
         | Are those actually the only options for public goods focus
         | though?
         | 
         | I generally lean softly toward anarchic solutions, so of course
         | my mind goes toward some kind of non-profit NGO or DAO rather
         | than the same government structures that lead to war for oil,
         | etc.
         | 
         | > or the fed.
         | 
         | Is there another example of a central bank owning a railroad? I
         | don't doubt that it has happened historically, but this is the
         | first time I've even thought of it as a possibility.
        
           | zht wrote:
           | he probably means the federal government lol
        
           | pests wrote:
           | > or DAO
           | 
           | Oh, an entity like the original DAO that led to Ethereum
           | selling out?
           | 
           | "The Contract is the Law" until its not.
           | 
           | Very anarchic.
        
         | oatmeal1 wrote:
         | > For some reason, our railroad are privately owned rather than
         | owned by the states or the fed.
         | 
         | Because we want them to work well? Look at how the government
         | handles the infrastructure it owns.
        
           | velcrovan wrote:
           | Which government? State-owned trains in Europe and Japan are
           | amazing. The US could do fine too if it cared to actually
           | fund infrastructure rather than letting it whither on the
           | vine.
        
             | jdminhbg wrote:
             | The problem isn't the amount of funding, the problem is
             | competence administering the funding. California's HSR has
             | tens of billions invested and no track laid. I'd love to
             | import European or Japanese rail administrators so that the
             | investment could result in trains actually running, but
             | that doesn't seem to be in the cards.
        
               | creato wrote:
               | They'd run into the exact same problems getting rights of
               | way. There may be incompetence in administration, but
               | it's not the only problem.
        
               | njarboe wrote:
               | Brightline is a privately company building a bullet train
               | from LA to Las Vegas opening in 2027. The same company
               | recently completed a new bullet train from Miami to
               | Orlando.
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | An interesting feature of the Brightline West project is
               | that it does not go deep into populated urban areas to
               | save money.
               | 
               | The terminus in Las Vegas is south of the airport and the
               | Strip. The terminus in "LA" is in Rancho Cucamonga, 37
               | miles east of LA and in a whole different county.
               | 
               | CAHSR was partially sold as a downtown revitalization
               | project, and so has expensive full speed approaches into
               | Fresno, Bakersfield, Merced, etc.
        
               | woodruffw wrote:
               | > The same company recently completed a new bullet train
               | from Miami to Orlando.
               | 
               | Brightline is an accomplishment, but this significantly
               | oversells it: the Orlando-Miami route _tops out_ at
               | 125mph, which is barely HSR by any normal standard. A
               | good chunk of the route is on pre-existing lines that top
               | out at 79mph. For comparison, trains on the LGV Nord (31
               | years old) operate at 190mph[1].
               | 
               | I hope they continue to invest in HSR, but I don't think
               | we should settle for marketing here.
               | 
               | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGV_Nord
        
               | briankelly wrote:
               | They did bring in a French HSR operator that built rail
               | in Asia, but they bailed for projects in a less
               | politically dysfunctional landscape... North Africa [1].
               | It's our pork barrel political machinery that's fucked
               | up.
               | 
               | [1] https://archive.is/2023.09.19-135838/https://www.nyti
               | mes.com...
        
           | eropple wrote:
           | So we're talking about transportation, and I guess I have to
           | ask exactly what transportation infrastructure you then mean?
           | Because the only serious, broad, federally-managed
           | transportation infrastructure I can think of are like,
           | military airbases. Which tend to be pretty good!
           | 
           | That's assuming, of course, you mean the US government--which
           | does not own things like highways, for those unclear; it does
           | have a controlling stake in Amtrak, but aside from the NEC
           | (which is great IMO) Amtrak does not own the railways that
           | actually serve as rail infrastructure. Because, of course,
           | country governments elsewhere regularly own or have majority
           | stakes in both railroads and railways, to pretty good
           | success.
           | 
           | Or, on the other other hand, maybe you mean non-transporation
           | infrastructure? 'Cause frankly, the US Postal Service was
           | pretty great 'til "the government doesn't work and we're
           | going to prove it by ripping out big chunks of it"
           | politicians got their hands on it.
        
             | oatmeal1 wrote:
             | > That's assuming, of course, you mean the US government--
             | which does not own things like highways
             | 
             | I was responding to a comment which said "states or the
             | fed," so of course I was referring to those both. The
             | states own the highways.
        
             | AnthonyMouse wrote:
             | > Because the only serious, broad, federally-managed
             | transportation infrastructure I can think of are like,
             | military airbases. Which tend to be pretty good!
             | 
             | I hope you're not putting forth the Department of Defense
             | as a positive exemplar of government efficiency.
             | 
             | > That's assuming, of course, you mean the US government--
             | which does not own things like highways
             | 
             | The federal government funds 90% of the interstate highway
             | system. The job it does at this is kind of medium and has
             | all of the usual problems that happen when you're spending
             | somebody else's money, e.g. the roads are always under
             | construction because the construction companies get paid if
             | they're "working" (even if that means standing around) so
             | finishing projects quickly is disfavored because they want
             | the work to expand to fill the available budget rather than
             | the other way around.
             | 
             | The general problem with government projects in the US is
             | that they put too much emphasis on false economies of scale
             | and try to allocate contracts that are too large. For
             | example, instead of contracting with one company for
             | rolling stock and it maintenance, they should buy rolling
             | stock as-needed from anyone who makes it broadly matching a
             | required spec (e.g. the correct width of the track) and
             | then contract with separate companies for maintenance.
             | 
             | The most important thing, which they fail at utterly, is to
             | make contracts small and simple and make it easy for
             | companies that don't specialize in government contracting
             | to bid on them. Because otherwise they only get companies
             | that _do_ specialize in government contracting, even when
             | the contract is for some fungible commodity, and end up
             | paying unreasonable rates for everything.
             | 
             | > the US Postal Service was pretty great 'til "the
             | government doesn't work and we're going to prove it by
             | ripping out big chunks of it" politicians got their hands
             | on it.
             | 
             | The US Postal Service had a monopoly on first class mail at
             | a time when lots of things were delivered via first class
             | mail. It wasn't particularly cost efficient but it
             | delivered the mail and it couldn't be outcompeted by
             | someone else because competing with it was prohibited by
             | law.
             | 
             | Then first class mail got replaced by email while online
             | purchasing increased enough to give UPS and FedEx enough
             | economies of scale to outcompete USPS for package delivery
             | even with the USPS having existing trucks delivering the
             | mail. Then it actually had to compete on efficiency, which
             | it failed to do and ran into problems. _Then_ people
             | started trying to reform it.
             | 
             | Which never really worked because a government agency is
             | constrained by political forces, e.g. public sector unions
             | that capture legislators ("management") who are supposed to
             | represent the general public _against_ the unions
             | representing the public 's employees. If you then put it
             | into competition with private companies, it will generally
             | operate less efficiently and go bankrupt. Which is fine as
             | long as the private companies continue to operate in a
             | competitive market themselves, until someone decrees that
             | we need to save the publicly operated business that failed
             | in the market.
        
           | fwip wrote:
           | I'd love if our railroads ran on time anywhere near as often
           | as the postal service does. Or even as often as the city bus
           | does.
        
         | njarboe wrote:
         | Japan's famously on-time and efficient rail system is made up
         | of many privately owned systems.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | Efficient if you look at the big three JRs (Central, East,
           | West).
           | 
           | JR Shikoku, JR Hokkaido, and JR Freight are basket cases.
        
         | switch007 wrote:
         | It's tragic in the UK at the moment. The government has taken
         | over some large rail operators and are busy reducing services
         | and increasing costs. They're making many other detrimental
         | changes to the railway system too
         | 
         | We can't believe it but some of us enthusiasts are actually
         | wanting privatisation back
         | 
         | Public can be good. Private can be good. Public can be bad.
         | Private can be bad...
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe] / Related:
       | 
       |  _Residents ' lives still in limbo a year after East Palestine
       | toxic derailment_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39337237
        
       | Drunk_Engineer wrote:
       | This "safety" legislation is mainly about requiring 2-man crews
       | on trains. The unions are of course very much in favor, but it
       | would do nothing to prevent derailments like what happened at E.
       | Palestine.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | The problem should be solved with maintenance and automation.
         | But that would hurt the union (though there would be more
         | opportunity in maintenance.
        
           | AnthonyMouse wrote:
           | The biggest problem unions have seems to be that they've
           | never heard of the Jevons paradox. They try to "create jobs"
           | at the expense of efficiency on the theory they'll get more
           | work, causing everything they do to become prohibitively
           | expensive and then it gets cut or offshored.
        
         | kyrra wrote:
         | As a reminder for those that don't follow this in detail: One
         | of the main pushes of this bill would be requiring at least 2
         | people on all freight trains to "help improve safety".
         | 
         | Can you guess how many engineers there were on the East
         | Palastine train? 3.
         | 
         | That obvious had no impact on this incident. As others have
         | pointed out, more engineers are a security/safety theaters
         | solution. It also makes unions happy, as it means they need to
         | employ more people.
         | 
         | This is a terrible bill that was reactionary at the time, and
         | does nothing to actually improve safety.
         | 
         | https://www.wsj.com/articles/railroad-crew-size-mandate-dera...
        
           | zthrowaway wrote:
           | Over the past decade the Class 1's have been working towards
           | doing 1 man crew's. But they're still 2 man at minimum. This
           | bill achieves nothing. This is a "hey we did something about
           | it! (please don't read what's in the bill and catch us
           | bullshitting)."
           | 
           | What they should be doing is looking at the absurd increase
           | in length of these trains to increase profits for the sake of
           | safety, and the shortcutting of car maintenance. The latter
           | which would've caught this issue to begin with.
        
       | legitster wrote:
       | Train derailments are already on a long downward trend since they
       | peaked in 1978: https://data.transportation.gov/dataset/Railroad-
       | Equipment-A...
       | 
       | This legislation was kind of a hot-blooded fast-twitch response
       | to the East Palestine disaster, but it's not exactly clear that
       | it would have done anything other than address some of the
       | superficial concerns at the time.
       | 
       | Since then the DOT has already updated several of their
       | derailment policies, the EPA has updated their procedure for
       | burning off hazardous chemicals.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Another user responded here asking if this was the result of
         | increased regulation considered burdensome at the time it was
         | introduced and then deleted the question, presumably after
         | reading more about it. The question itself is interesting
         | though: the period after the 1970s saw substantially decreased
         | regulation for railways in general and a loosening in how
         | security regulation was approached for a massive decline in
         | railroad safety issues. I.e. the market was heavily over-
         | regulated at the time and prescriptive regulation had been
         | having the opposite of the intended effect. I'm highlighting
         | this not as one who despises regulation, quite the opposite,
         | but just because it's a good point to highlight reacting to
         | every accident with more regulation is not the right way to
         | approach further regulation.
         | 
         | https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/fra_net/16...
        
           | flavius29663 wrote:
           | It can make sense. I come from a country(Romania) where fire
           | regulations are insanely strict and complicated. If the fire
           | department comes to inspect, they will 100% find issues and
           | fine you. The result is that the most sane and basic
           | requirements get drowned in a sea of useless regulations, so
           | you end up with escape doors that are locked, missing
           | alerting systems, flammable materials where there shouldn't
           | be etc.
        
             | ToucanLoucan wrote:
             | I need a more detailed explanation of what you're
             | suggesting here: I get that having too many regulations can
             | create a situation where an inspector will always find
             | fault, that makes sense: but unless inspectors have a cap
             | on the number of issues they're allowed to report, which
             | doesn't seem sane under any circumstance, why would that
             | then cause more obvious basic regulations to be unenforced?
             | If anything I would expect the opposite.
        
               | gbear605 wrote:
               | I can't speak for Romania, but if the outcome of any
               | mistake is that you get shutdown, there's an implicit cap
               | on how much you can get punished.
        
         | woodruffw wrote:
         | Some confounding factors on derailment statistics:
         | 
         | * Individual trains are longer than ever, which means that they
         | carry more than ever. That means _bigger_ derailments in
         | absolute terms with a larger potential variety of components,
         | even if the overall magnitude of derailments has decreased.
         | 
         | * Deferred line maintenance and other cost-cutting measures
         | (like running longer trains with just one or two engineers)
         | means more _severe_ derailments (more cars off the rails, more
         | extensive damage, fewer people available to detect or remediate
         | problems).
        
       | rgbrenner wrote:
       | Saying "Congress" isn't advancing it, lets the people responsible
       | avoid blame. While the bills have bipartisan sponsors, only
       | democrats are willing to vote for the bill on the house/senate
       | floor. In the senate, republicans are threatening to filibuster
       | the bill, so it cant pass without a supermajority. And the gop-
       | led house refuses to bring the house bill to the floor.
       | 
       | 2023 was the least productive Congress since the Great
       | Depression. Passing a total of 23 bills last year.
       | 
       | https://www.axios.com/2023/12/19/118-congress-bills-least-un...
        
         | BitwiseFool wrote:
         | Is there some poison pill in the bill? It's a really common
         | tactic for the party in power to put wishlist items in the
         | "Good things for America Act" that they know the opposition
         | cannot support in order to get fodder for making the other side
         | look so unreasonable.
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | To just rephrase your point a bit more clearly - there is not
         | even a particular partisan reaction to the bill itself - one of
         | the two parties our government needs to run is currently
         | collapsing in on itself so _nothing_ is getting done.
        
       | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
       | How many people were killed or injured? Are we making an
       | assumption about the severity of this disaster?
        
       | steviedotboston wrote:
       | Is "disaster" really the correct term for an incident where zero
       | people where injured or died and everything in the town was back
       | to normal pretty quickly?
        
       | Overtonwindow wrote:
       | This kind of deadlock should not happen. I think it's indicative
       | of what has gone wrong with the United States. Congress, nobody
       | is willing to give an inch, and everything is a personal fight to
       | the death.
        
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