[HN Gopher] My Visit to Deep Springs College (2009)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       My Visit to Deep Springs College (2009)
        
       Author : ricardobeat
       Score  : 106 points
       Date   : 2024-02-12 12:00 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.harrisonbarnes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.harrisonbarnes.com)
        
       | ricardobeat wrote:
       | This is pretty surreal, and feels like the beginning of a script
       | for a Hollywood movie.
        
       | sdwr wrote:
       | So weird, but so believable.
        
       | b8 wrote:
       | I'm a student at Berea College, which is like Deep Springs
       | College (tuition free, everyone works etc.), but it's a bit
       | bigger. It's a decent college and some work on the campus farm.
       | Most of the faculty are from top tier colleges or are reputable
       | scholars. A few students have transferred to top tier colleges as
       | well. Anyway, the 60 minutes episode about Deep Springs is a good
       | watch!
        
         | itronitron wrote:
         | From the article:
         | 
         |  _" My visit to Deep Springs College taught me, in no uncertain
         | terms, to be extremely careful about trusting anyone. Whether
         | it is trusting a leader, trusting the numbers an institution
         | claims, or trusting someone who is making an argument to you
         | about this or that. A substantial majority of the people,
         | institutions, and others we encounter in our day-to-day lives
         | are completely full of shit. Everything is a facade and you
         | really do not know what is real and what is not."_
        
         | mattficke wrote:
         | I have a broom made by the student workshop at Berea and it's a
         | delightful tool, never thought I would enjoy sweeping.
        
       | cozzyd wrote:
       | I drive past there semi-regularly since one of the experiments I
       | work on is in the White Mountains (near Barcroft Station) and
       | Deep Springs is on the way between Las Vegas and the experiment
       | site. Would be fun to try to visit sometime...
        
         | classichasclass wrote:
         | Is that on highway 168? Beautiful drive. Always loved the
         | Westgaard Pass.
        
           | cozzyd wrote:
           | Yes, the eastern segment, there is also a western
           | discontiguous segment of CA 168.
           | 
           | There is of course an interesting history about this road: ht
           | tps://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd499744....
        
         | aaronharnly wrote:
         | I visited a friend who was attending Deep Springs back in 1995
         | or 1996, when we were both first-year students.
         | 
         | Because I was too young to rent a car, I had to take a bus out
         | of Las Vegas, and get picked up by someone from Deep Springs
         | coming over the pass in a pickup. This is the Lida Junction
         | mentioned in the article.
         | 
         | Very memorably, the "bus stop" was just an intersection with a
         | dirt road, with (1) a phone booth (2) a brothel.
        
           | knodi123 wrote:
           | > Very memorably, the "bus stop" was just an intersection
           | with a dirt road, with (1) a phone booth (2) a brothel.
           | 
           | They mentioned that in the article a couple of times. I
           | wonder if it's still that way? Sometimes Vegas seems like a
           | different country.
        
             | brindlejim wrote:
             | The brothel (The Cotton Tail Ranch) closed many years ago.
             | 
             | Another neat thing about the "bus stop" was that the phone
             | booth gave you no way to dial. There was no number pad.
             | You'd pick it up, and the call would go straight to the
             | operator, because neither she nor you actually knew what
             | was going on. That is, the phone was a very old one, built
             | for a system that relied on operators to "put you through".
             | I remember calling the school to tell them I had arrived,
             | and having to wait for the operator to find the right
             | instructions in the manual to do that. Even then, there
             | were only a few of those phones left in the US.
        
       | pyuser583 wrote:
       | > One of the most embarrassing moments came when they asked me a
       | question about Carl Jung, whom I had quoted in one of my essays.
       | I had included a few lines about how Carl Jung believed this or
       | that.
       | 
       | > "Have you ever actually read any books by Carl Jung?" one of
       | the students asked me.
       | 
       | > "No, I've never read a single thing by him," I answered
       | truthfully.
       | 
       | > "Then how can you possibly have a large quote from him in your
       | essay, base an essay around his teachings and also lead us to
       | believe that you know what you are talking about?"
       | 
       | > It was a really good question and he had a point. The rest of
       | the experience and all of the questions went basically like this:
       | I would say one thing and they would contradict me and accuse me
       | of not really understanding what I was talking about.
       | 
       | This is a big paradox of modern society: most of what people
       | believe is bullshit.
       | 
       | But you can't go around saying people believe bullshit, because
       | they are people, and worthy of respect.
       | 
       | The best solution is to focus on contributing new knowledge, not
       | destroying the bullshit.
       | 
       | It would have been much more impressive if a student actually
       | addressed the ideas attributed to Jung, or explained why the
       | quote was misleading.
        
         | mastercheph wrote:
         | Why would you expect this character, the one who quotes Jung at
         | length without ever having read anything he wrote, to remember
         | and record if and what anyone said to him about Jung?
        
       | xrd wrote:
       | I recall having a conversation with one of the most brilliant
       | people I ever knew in high school. This was the college he wanted
       | to attend. I hadn't heard of it before and later in the
       | conversation referred to it as Palm Springs and could see the
       | frustration on his face. Not the same vibe. He wasn't long for
       | this world, died jogging in Japan and his parents didn't find out
       | a week later until he was already cremated. As they say in Blade
       | Runner: "the light that burns twice as bright burns half as
       | long."
        
       | girzel wrote:
       | I attended Deep Springs 1996/97. The school goes through semi-
       | regular cultural oscillations between "mean" and "nice"; between
       | what we'd now call toxic masculinity, and sort of a peace-and-
       | love hippie friendliness. Students play a large role in admitting
       | the incoming class, and tend to admit people like them, until the
       | culture swings too far in one direction and they start
       | correcting.
       | 
       | It sounds like this guy visited during a "mean" period, which is
       | too bad. I attended during an upswing into a "nice" period, and
       | it felt well balanced. My application interview was one of the
       | most memorable experiences of my life -- I'd never had anyone pay
       | that kind of close attention to anything I'd written, or what I
       | thought. It woke me all the way up, in a sense where I'd gone
       | through most of my teenage years asleep, and was enormously
       | bracing. When they finally let me out, I emerged into the main
       | room, where some guy reading on a sofa looked up and asked, "How
       | was it?" I don't remember exactly what I said, but it
       | communicated something along the lines of "holy shit that was a
       | thrill!". I still suspect he communicated my attitude back to the
       | applications committee and that played a part in getting
       | accepted.
       | 
       | So far as I know, no one during my two years visited the
       | Cottontail Ranch :)
        
       | every wrote:
       | Blackburn College is also a work college and was established in
       | 1837. My dad was an alumnus back in the Great Depression. It was
       | all he could afford...
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackburn_College_(Illinois)
        
         | teachrdan wrote:
         | Berea College is similar. I met a super smart student from
         | there years ago. Interestingly, they were also early pioneers
         | in being co-ed and racially integrated.
         | 
         | "Berea College is a private liberal arts work college in Berea,
         | Kentucky. Founded in 1855, Berea College was the first college
         | in the Southern United States to be coeducational and racially
         | integrated. It was integrated from as early as 1866 until 1904,
         | and again after 1954... As a work college, Berea has a student
         | work program in which all students work on campus 10 or more
         | hours per week."
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berea_College
        
           | giraffe_lady wrote:
           | Some of the most interesting people I've ever met had gone to
           | berea. One notable example was when I met him working as a
           | farrier but had a MM piano performance from berklee and had
           | published papers in a CS journal. Another was a chef, would
           | give me a six stone handicap in go (I was playing 1-2 kyu at
           | the time) and then tear me apart in between heroic bong rips.
           | These just not common combinations of skill and interest at
           | all.
        
           | b8 wrote:
           | I'm a current student at Berea, and yeah Berea has a unique
           | history.
        
       | dsctaway1234 wrote:
       | Current resident of deep springs college, happy to answer any
       | questions.
        
         | warner25 wrote:
         | Fascinating. As I read this, I was mostly wondering about how
         | much time the students were spending on the admissions process
         | for new students.
         | 
         | This guy was just one applicant, and he spent a whole week
         | there by himself, and _all_ of the students reportedly spent
         | time dissecting and discussing his 50+ pages of essays and
         | participating in his four-hour interview. How does that scale?
         | It seems like this would be an all-consuming thing for a whole
         | admissions cycle. Does the whole academic program just revolve
         | around these essays? Or are the assigned essay topics directly
         | related to what the students are studying?
        
           | dsctaway1234 wrote:
           | The application committee is a group of about 10 students and
           | 2-4 staff and faculty. By the time of the interview, everyone
           | will have read all parts of the applicants materials. Close
           | reading and critique still characterizes much of the
           | interview. But in my experience, someone can have major
           | mistakes in the essays/tests/transcript and be admitted.
           | Sometimes the application is deeply rooted in a specific
           | intellectual tradition; sometimes it may ask questions like
           | "which would win in a fight, a bear or a shark?" Usually
           | there's a mix of both.
           | 
           | Like other comments here and on the OP have said, Deep
           | Springs has many different cultural moments because of the
           | short turn over of the students in their elected positions
           | (and as residents), the 2 year or so retention rate for
           | staff, and new visiting professors 4 times a year.
           | 
           | To your question of scale -- the college is actively against
           | scaling. The founder hoped the school would inspire similar
           | schools. And over the last decade or so, Outer Coast College,
           | Tidelines Institute, Thoreau College, and Gull Island Project
           | have all started programs based on Deep Springs. They're all
           | coming out to the college next weekend for a summit.
           | 
           | Because students are constantly balancing too-much work
           | between academics, labor, or self-governance, each year, the
           | application committee finds a new stable point of work load
           | each year. Based on my experience, if the students only had
           | to work on the application committee, their first impulse
           | would be to spend more time on it. The stakes are higher for
           | them than it is for us, since, as the OP notes, the student
           | body retains the authority to regulate the conduct of its
           | members.
           | 
           | The academic program is relatively conventional, i.e. 4-10
           | person seminars with most students taking 2-4 per semester or
           | term. The difference is the collective striving for great
           | academic performance (written and spoken in seminar) and the
           | ability for professors (long-term and visiting) to pitch
           | courses they wouldn't be able to teach elsewhere (for any
           | reason, e.g. politics, student quality, etc.).
           | 
           | These days, class is in the morning, labor in the afternoon,
           | governance as schedules allow (though there are two regular
           | meetings each week, committee meetings, such as applications,
           | and the student body meeting). There is also a long-standing
           | public speaking class each week during sept.-may; students
           | give speeches on common prompts or speak on something
           | important for the life of the community.
        
             | warner25 wrote:
             | So if only 10 students are on this committee[1], that makes
             | more sense. Either this has changed since the time of the
             | author's story, or he misremembered, or exaggerated (re:
             | saying that all 25 students, the whole student body at the
             | time, was at his interview plus talking about his essays
             | for days leading up to his interview). I understand that
             | the idea isn't meant to scale up to larger schools, but it
             | sounded like it wouldn't even scale to the number of
             | applications that Deep Springs would get in any given year.
             | 
             | [1] Is this still 1/3 to 1/2 of the student body?
        
         | solarkraft wrote:
         | Are they accepting women now?
        
           | dsctaway1234 wrote:
           | Yes, 2018 was the first co-ed class.
        
         | azmodeus wrote:
         | What made you choose Deep Springs? How are the career
         | prospects? What are the pros and cons of studying there for
         | you?
        
           | dsctaway1234 wrote:
           | I am not a student at Deep Springs, but I can speak generally
           | to different motivations of students and myself (staff).
           | 
           | One of the more interesting things about Deep Springs is that
           | the students are definitely counter cultural but also very
           | competitive and generally academically (or at least
           | intellectually) straight-laced/standouts. That's the zone of
           | genius they were in before they came here, so afterwards,
           | they go to schools you'd expect them to go. Until the 1960s,
           | many (most?) students went to Cornell to the Telluride house
           | (also founded by Nunn) to finish their undergrad.
           | 
           | What they do next is usually more interesting. When accepting
           | the scholarship to attend deep springs, students agree to
           | commit themselves to a life of service to humanity. At the
           | founding, becoming a titan of industry (emulating the
           | founder) was definitely seen as such, but, as you can
           | imagine, ideas have shifted with generations. Pursuing
           | advanced degrees is pretty popular, and many alums have gone
           | on to work in higher education.
           | 
           | When I was getting driven in by a student for my interview as
           | a staff member, they asked me why I wanted to work there.
           | After I gave some answer, I asked her why she decided to
           | study at deep springs. She told me that of her options
           | (including top US schools), deep springs seemed to be the
           | hardest and the only place where she would get real feedback.
           | After listening to her answer and talking to her about it, I
           | decided I wanted to work at deep springs because I prefer to
           | work with that quality of student, and, if I can work with 24
           | or so, even better.
           | 
           | These guys all come in very talented academically and in some
           | cases professionally, and, for my money, the education that
           | they get -- especially in politics and common sense -- helps
           | round them in a way which is very rare in other colleges or
           | learning communities. That high-minded conversations flow
           | from the seminar to the ditch digging crew is why I would
           | suggest a place like deep springs (or something like the
           | Thiel Fellowship) versus reading lots of books in your spare
           | time and working on a farm if you are a bright but
           | disenchanted student.
           | 
           | Cons are a lifestyle which is very much out of sync with the
           | rest of the world and expectations. Any resident is
           | committing to live in a small village (mostly 18-24 y/os,
           | usually <10 staff and faculty) on the northern boundary of
           | death valley.
           | 
           | And if you're a student, you are committing to participate in
           | a democratic game in which your peers (and yourself) will
           | regulate your actions, e.g. no wifi on personal devices, only
           | shared desktop computers. But as you can imagine, it's hard
           | to get such regulations passed.
           | 
           | Depending on how you cope, the entire project might be a con,
           | ha! That is, the program demands nearly all of the time of a
           | student for 2 years. For some, that is too much of a burden.
           | But for many it's their first introduction to working that
           | hard that continuously. After their time, most deep springers
           | would be great high-potential, low-experience start up
           | employees, for example.
           | 
           | An easy way of thinking about deep springs today is that it's
           | a modern seminary or monastery.
           | 
           | I like working on projects like deep springs because the
           | marriage of mind and body. It has been rare for me to find
           | good concentrations of folks who want to physically work
           | until they're exhausted and who are also incredibly curious
           | (and rigorous in their curiosity) about the world.
        
         | JackFr wrote:
         | Wouldn't it be easier to fly into Reno, NV and take the bus to
         | Bishop, CA?
        
           | dsctaway1234 wrote:
           | The bus only goes to Beatty these days, so most people fly to
           | Reno, LA, or Bishop.
        
         | breaker-kind wrote:
         | did you meet my friend Kel a few weeks ago?
        
       | interiorchurch wrote:
       | Question: TASP, a related summer program, has recently gone
       | through some painful convolutions related to race and
       | inequality[1]. How much if at all has Deep Springs been affected
       | by currents like this?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-
       | letters/articles/a-c...
        
         | brindlejim wrote:
         | TASP was renamed TASS a couple years ago, and it now offers
         | only two seminars: Critical Black Studies and Anti-Oppressive
         | Studies. The program has been taken over by woke radicals both
         | on its board and in the administration, which is led by Amina
         | Omari, someone with near-zero experience in education prior to
         | her appointment. I receive desperate emails from them asking
         | for volunteers and financial support, which suggest that they
         | have lost some of their base due to their political choices.
         | 
         | Deep Springs is on a different track, but not a totally
         | dissimilar one. That is, the school has been attempting to
         | feminize for decades, a process that culminated in its
         | conversion to co-education in 2018 after a long legal battle. I
         | get the school's newsletters and see occasional land
         | acknowledgements penned by privileged people of color, which
         | tracks with a known trend in US liberal arts colleges.
         | 
         | But the real shift at DS, triggered by co-education, seems to
         | be that it's less hard-core. One person called it
         | "Benningtonization". The boys and girls all hive off into
         | pairs, and the communal life of mind and labor and governance
         | shrinks as it cedes ground to America's default version of life
         | together, the romantic couple.
         | 
         | But the school has gone through many phases. This is no doubt a
         | temporary one.
        
           | 23kfuhfsdf wrote:
           | TASP -- Sad to hear!
        
         | dsctaway1234 wrote:
         | These conversations have been live on campus for some time
         | (80s) and continue. Though we're isolated, most conversations
         | happening elsewhere also happen here, but, because everyone's
         | so weird, the conversations get turned on their head or don't
         | present in the same way in other places. Mostly it just makes
         | the environment less reactionary.
         | 
         | That can be frustrating for some who want change now, but, at
         | the end of the day, the students and community have the power
         | to change most aspects of the program, and year to year
         | different students or community members take on different
         | projects in response to community needs. That agency helps
         | diffuse many convolutions via compromise and practical action.
         | Of course, convolutions still happen. Basically, this isn't a
         | place that avoids conflict or disagreement, it's a container
         | where students (and staff, ha!) learn how to disagree,
         | conflict, resolve/forget, and get shit done.
        
       | hscontinuity wrote:
       | There is immutable self reflection in the author's account of his
       | experience/s. That reflection also leads to immutable knowledge
       | of self, in general. The lesson is hammering the nail not only on
       | the head, but purely, intently, and straight.
       | 
       | Be who you are, or who you want to be. Do not trust the images of
       | conformity around you, for they wear a mask more often than not.
       | 
       | Raise your own awareness - something often lacking our everyday
       | experiences, for all of us.
        
       | vonnik wrote:
       | I attended DS in the mid-90s, slightly before @girzel (who does
       | great work btw!).
       | 
       | DS is essentially a transfer school that offers no tenure and
       | whose small student body is on a two-year program. That is a
       | recipe for rapid cultural change and little institutional memory
       | inside the valley. Which is to say, Harrison got a snapshot of a
       | very peculiar place, which is now peculiar in very different
       | ways.
       | 
       | The school went co-ed a few years ago (it had spent the previous
       | century as an all-male school). That brought a sea change.
       | 
       | Harrison is correct, I suppose, to say that every institution is
       | deeply human and no one should be intimidated by them. But he is
       | wrong to extrapolate too much about DS based on his visit there.
       | 
       | Even people who spent years of their lives there would have
       | trouble generalizing about it in ways that accurately encompass
       | decades.
       | 
       | If I could try to generalize about DS, I would say: it has
       | traditionally been a place where excellent weirdos learn and work
       | together, and which puts tremendous pressure on them, for good
       | and bad. I have not experienced a more intense or sincere
       | learning environment before or since.
        
         | girzel wrote:
         | Hi Chris!
         | 
         | I also felt like the essay suffered a lot from generalization
         | -- Harrison happened to talk to these three people, and
         | extrapolated way too much from that.
        
           | refulgentis wrote:
           | Well, no, at the minimum he talked to all 25 students.[^1]
           | 
           | Additionally, why would 1, 3, or 25 matter?
           | 
           | The behavior Chris described requires attending the school
           | and visiting it often enough to view multiple cohorts.
           | 
           | [^1] When I went into the classroom at the appointed hour,
           | the 25 students were all there ready to interview me.
           | 
           | [^2] Man, I wish I went there if it means you could talk like
           | this all the time. The older I get, the more suffocated I am
           | by the damp blanket of adult communication. At 20 I would
           | have said it was immoral and boring to withhold engaging
           | deeply, at 35 I need a damn good reason to bother engaging
           | rather than smiling and nodding.
        
       | ipython wrote:
       | Does the image https://d18pp9dg727fce.cloudfront.net/wp-
       | content/uploads/200... from the article load for anyone? For me,
       | from multiple browsers, it shows as a very broken JPG that's
       | clearly had a few bit flips and as a result is just blocky
       | garbage on my browsers. Curious if this is bitrot from AWS or
       | what.
        
         | jyunwai wrote:
         | That image also didn't correctly load for me (just a slice at
         | the top), also checking on multiple browsers.
        
         | andyjohnson0 wrote:
         | Broken for me on Firefox Android.
         | 
         | Looks kind of pretty though. Like a blocky sunset.
        
       | deepsprings wrote:
       | I'm a current student at Deep Springs College. I recently gave a
       | Reddit AMA about the school, but I'm also happy to answer any
       | questions here.
        
       | AtlasBarfed wrote:
       | THE LESSON
       | 
       | You should neither trust outward appearances, nor let them
       | intimidate you. There is always a discord between the appearance
       | that a person or organization projects, and their actual nature.
       | For this reason, always be careful about the people and
       | organizations in whom you place your trust.
       | 
       | .....
       | 
       | About Harrison Barnes
       | 
       | Harrison Barnes is the Founder of BCG Attorney Search and a
       | successful legal recruiter himself. Harrison is extremely
       | committed to and passionate about the profession of legal
       | placement. His firm BCG Attorney Search has placed thousands of
       | attorneys. BCG Attorney Search works with attorneys to
       | dramatically improve their careers by leaving no stone unturned
       | in a search and bringing out the very best in them. Harrison has
       | placed the leaders of the nation's top law firms, and countless
       | associates who have gone on to lead the nation's top law firms.
       | There are very few firms Harrison has not made placements with.
       | Harrison's writings about attorney careers and placements attract
       | millions of reads each year. He coaches and consults with law
       | firms about how to dramatically improve their recruiting and
       | retention efforts. His company LawCrossing has been ranked on the
       | Inc. 500 twice. For more information, please visit Harrison
       | Barnes' bio.
       | 
       | .....
       | 
       | Also, guy is excessively obsessed with people's personal sex
       | lives, and seems to try to match people to caricatures and
       | archetypes. He seems to have problems appreciating complexity and
       | things that aren't white and black.
       | 
       | A lot of extremely smart people are like this with social
       | aspects, because they become entrenched in proof/disproof and
       | absolute right and wrong points from excessive academic
       | achievement.
       | 
       | No wonder the guy a) was fascinated with an extreme cult college
       | where extreme academics with poor social skills seem to go, and
       | b) is obsessed with Las Vegas.
       | 
       | I recall reading a Catcher in the Rye which is popular precisely
       | because of stunted/novice social development narrative
       | perspective (protaganist is a teenager) identifying everyone as
       | "phonies". Same vibe here.
        
       | jyunwai wrote:
       | This reminded me of another unconventional institution called St.
       | John's College, though it does offer a four-year degree.
       | 
       | Instead of offering a traditional undergraduate program that
       | teaches largely from modern textbooks, students work through what
       | the institution calls a "Great Books" curriculum of the
       | "foundational texts of Western civilization" across a variety of
       | subjects: https://www.sjc.edu/academic-
       | programs/undergraduate/great-bo...
       | 
       | I have, however, read some accounts online that the program has
       | flaws with the way it teaches mathematics, where some students
       | claim that an approach through historical texts is less effective
       | than one with more current books. In any case, I think it's
       | interesting that non-traditional institutions with largely
       | respected reputations exist, like St. John's and the colleges in
       | the article and the discussion so far.
        
         | mastercheph wrote:
         | It depends on what you want from a mathematics education and
         | what you want from your education at St. John's. It is not a
         | vocational school, and the mathematics we do won't strictly be
         | aligned with any particular career path. And the other
         | advantage/disadvantage is that almost all of the math you have
         | learned before you start is not helpful, at least for the first
         | two years. Neither of those things mean that the math we do is
         | any less serious or important than the math education most
         | undergraduates will receive. [1]
         | 
         | Most people that are frustrated by one of the two things I
         | mentioned above, either experience a shift in perspective, or
         | do not complete their studies at St. John's.
         | 
         | Afaik they have been trying to fudge these numbers over the
         | past few years because admin thinks it makes the school look
         | bad, but fewer than 50% of freshman that enroll in the college
         | will graduate. And at least a third of those that leave don't
         | make it past the first semester.
         | 
         | [1] Just to paint a few broad strokes of the highlights of our
         | math program: Freshman study Euclid's Elements and Optics,
         | Archimedes, and Claudius Ptolemy's Almagest, Sophomores study
         | Ptolemy, Copernicus, Kepler's Astronomia Nova, and Apollonius'
         | Conics. Junior's study Newton, Maxwell, Oresme, Leibniz,
         | Pascal, Descartes, and Dedekind. And Senior's work through
         | Einstein, Lorentz, and Minkowski's relativity papers, before
         | rounding the whole thing off with Lobochevsky, Bertrand
         | Russell, and Godel.
        
       | thsksbd wrote:
       | This has all the trappings to be miserably boring. The story is
       | long. In the middle of nowhere. Filled with weirdo boys
       | cosplaying as yeoman intellectuals.
       | 
       | I figured the story would take a dark turn, like a horror flick.
       | 
       | Au contraire! This is a story about a bunch of self righteous
       | pricks whose peckers get antibiotic resistant STDs.
       | 
       | This was great, thank you. (The moral lesson is interesting too
       | but I don't want to spoil it)
        
       | w10-1 wrote:
       | Much about this seems implausible. Classes are in the morning,
       | not work. No applicant would be left alone to work - why? It's
       | rare to have en-banc candidate interviews, and then only with the
       | ~10-member applications committee. Also, the posting is 15 years
       | out of date; after 7 student-generations, it can say little about
       | Deep Springs today. But possibly it was true.
       | 
       | Deep Springs gives the 24 2-year students all the responsibility:
       | to pick faculty and students, to actually run the ranch, and to
       | govern themselves.
       | 
       | Part of that is ensuring each generation of students decides for
       | themselves: practices survive only if the current generation
       | adopts them.
       | 
       | Another part is that people commit to taking you seriously; i.e.,
       | you will be held responsible for your bullshit (er: taken at your
       | word), e.g., "the people who read this essay at the school
       | thought my idea was groundbreaking" means "The most interesting
       | thing was this essay, so they went with it."
       | 
       | Another part is the "isolation" policy: students don't leave
       | during term, and more generally avoid outside influences (the
       | internet has been a big issue, obviously). The goal is for you,
       | together only with the people you have with you, to take full
       | responsibility, and gain full authority, using what you have at
       | hand.
       | 
       | As a consequence, outside interest is Deep Springs, while
       | necessary for the validation to recruit good students, is mostly
       | discouraged -- to avoid influencing how the current students
       | decide how to run things, and certainly to avoid visitors or
       | internet conflagrations.
       | 
       | It's extremely rare for students to have this combination of
       | freedom and responsibility and feedback. It should be replicated.
       | It's almost always life-changing. So if you know any brilliant,
       | caring, and productive people about to start college, please ask
       | them to consider Deep Springs.
       | 
       | Otherwise, please forget about it :)
        
       | S_Bear wrote:
       | That was not the Harrison Barnes I was expecting. I spent a good
       | few minutes figuring out why he'd be checking out a college with
       | no D1 basketball program.
        
       | 3523582908 wrote:
       | I'm married to a Deep Springer. I've been lucky to go there once,
       | during the Centennial.
       | 
       | Yes, they are brilliant.
       | 
       | Yes, they are hilariously weird and counter-cultural.
       | 
       | The college is absolutely gorgeous. I would cherish the
       | opportunity to go again.
        
         | urstop wrote:
         | There's another reunion around labor day this year.
        
       | diracs_stache wrote:
       | Several people from my high school went to Deep Springs. They
       | were all incredibly bright, high potential students but
       | definitely wanted "different". The ones I knew went on to
       | UChicago, MIT, and (I think?) Harvard after their terms. I went
       | to a Service Academy and couldn't help but think that their
       | experience sounded much more challenging than what I went
       | through.
        
       | aqirax wrote:
       | I made it to the final interview round in 2018 (1 of ~50). It was
       | a delightful experience, though I was a little heartbroken when I
       | didn't make it in. It was also the first year they were accepting
       | women, which I suppose cut my odds in half. I believe their plan
       | was half women this year, then all women next year, and then
       | leave it up to the student body for future classes, but I'm not
       | certain if they put that in place.
       | 
       | Some anecdotes:
       | 
       | The application process was intense. I wrote 4 essays for the
       | first round, then four more for the second (and an extra one at
       | the college), plus several other smaller prompts and questions.
       | Each essay was 2-3 pages. The essay topics weren't easy either:
       | "In what ways do your actions escape the boundaries of your
       | intentions?" was one I remember in particular. They were
       | enjoyable prompts, just difficult, but I think I did fairly well
       | with them.
       | 
       | They paid for my flights. It was the first time I had ever flown.
       | 
       | At the airport I chatted with the other nervous applicants. We
       | took a long, winding bus ride into Bishop. The driver took a good
       | look at us and said "Ah, must be that time of year again" when we
       | all climbed aboard. We were dropped off at a Walmart parking lot,
       | and got picked up a couple hours later by a student in a large
       | white pickup truck.
       | 
       | The sun had set, so we couldn't see anything. We drove through a
       | very narrow pass carved through some mountains, you could see the
       | layers of rock in the truck's headlights. The student honked
       | three times since it was only one car wide. When we arrived we
       | were directed to a dusty attic to drop off our things, and then
       | told to be ready to work at 6am. We all split up and wandered
       | around aimlessly. The attic had a calendar with cowboy pinups on
       | the wall, and was filled with musty old magazines and random bits
       | and bobs. I loved their music room, with hundreds of old records
       | and CDs and cassettes, as well as the smoking porch, which they
       | endearingly called the "Smo'po' ". I was slightly surprised that
       | so many students smoked. The conversations they had were
       | interesting and rich. There was no small talk, only waxing poetic
       | with a pack of marlboros. I wandered into the dining hall where
       | students were cleaning up dinner. The kitchen was loud, two giant
       | amps spewed Taylor Swift while somebody sprayed off plates with
       | an industrial(?) washer.
       | 
       | In the morning, I learned how to milk cows with another
       | applicant, a girl who talked about Aristotle the whole time (just
       | to impress the students, I think). Two buckets later and we
       | watched the sun rise over the ranch. Again, we arrived in the
       | dark, so this was the first time I was seeing everything. It was
       | brilliant, like nectar pouring over the mountain sides. The whole
       | valley opened up, much larger than I expected, almost swallowing
       | me whole. The campus itself, just a handful of buildings, was now
       | a small speck in the distance.
       | 
       | I did very poorly in the interview. In the application they ask
       | you to list every book you've read in the last year, and whether
       | it was for class or personal enjoyment. I did dual enrollment and
       | was about to receive my Associates in highschool, and pretty much
       | only took math classes (I wanted to be/currently am an OR
       | scientist), and I never read much outside of my lit classes. They
       | asked why, claiming that reading was a particularly important
       | skill for this school. I gave a mild response, but said that
       | recently I had started reading a lot more, and pulled out a copy
       | of Tristram Shandy. The president of the college was one of my
       | interviewers, and his eyes lit up. He asked me why I was
       | interested in the book, and I said something along the lines of
       | "I heard it was incredibly boring." His face immediately turned
       | sour, and said "Well, it's also incredibly funny." What I really
       | meant was that it's about the monotony of everyday life, which
       | seemed interesting given that most books I enjoyed were fantasy
       | and sci-fi. But I was fairly nervous and starstruck at the
       | moment, and didn't express myself very well. I never finished the
       | book.
       | 
       | Later in the day I helped a student load hay bales into a truck
       | and distribute them around to various stables and pens. I had an
       | interesting conversation him. He said that the biggest reason he
       | came to Deep Springs was because he wanted to escape his drug and
       | alcohol use. He was lean and tan, with short black hair, and wore
       | a grimy white t-shirt and jeans. He was the "gopher hunter"
       | (though I think it had a more prestigious name), and told me all
       | about the ins and outs of the art of gopher hunting.
       | 
       | During lunch I spoke with several other students. One, from India
       | and had attended a famous international school (whose name I
       | unfortunately don't remember, but apparently has had many alumni
       | attend Deep Springs), was the most well-spoken person I've ever
       | met. Everything he said was eloquent and precise, in a way I
       | can't quite describe. He somehow chose the optimal words for
       | every sentence, leaving his audience with no room (or need) for
       | interpretation, you simply understood exactly what he meant in an
       | unsettling vivid way. I wish I could remember something that he
       | said. After lunch, I sat in on a philosophy class. They were
       | discussing an Ayn Rand text they had read the previous week. I
       | tried to ask questions and participate, though not having read
       | the text made it difficult. If only it was a diffeq class!
       | 
       | The next day I went on a hike with another applicant into the
       | mountains. He was Bulgarian, with a thick beard and a puffy
       | sweater, and spoke with a heavy accent. We made lots of jokes and
       | talked a lot about what we'd imagine life would be like here.
       | 
       | When I got back, I wrote another essay, though I don't remember
       | the exact topic. A student brought me up to a nearby house on a
       | hill, and gave me a printed prompt and several sheets of paper
       | and a pen. I asked what this building was for, as it was rather
       | empty, just a table and a few beds. He said that sometimes
       | students sleep in this house, and I asked why. He had slept there
       | last night, because he was sick. I said I hope he's feeling
       | better, to with he replied "Yes, though it was more of an
       | emotional sickness than physical one." I didn't ask any other
       | questions, though I wish I did.
       | 
       | We all took another winding bus ride through the mountains back
       | to the airport, though we were rather silent this time. I flew
       | back out and eagerly awaited to hear back from them. It was my
       | first choice for school. I was crestfallen when I got rejected,
       | and heavily considered reapplying next year. But the application
       | process was so long and intense, and I was so busy with applying
       | for internships and completing upper level courses, I couldn't
       | muster the energy to do it. I regret it less each year.
        
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