[HN Gopher] The surreal life of a professional bridesmaid
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The surreal life of a professional bridesmaid
        
       Author : Anon84
       Score  : 188 points
       Date   : 2024-02-11 12:20 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thehustle.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thehustle.co)
        
       | slipshady wrote:
       | That website is awful on iOS/Safari. Constantly scrolls me back
       | to the top.
        
         | jarbus wrote:
         | Reader mode made it more bearable for me
        
         | LeonM wrote:
         | On Firefox (Linux) the page just goes blank after a second or
         | two. They must really don't want people to actually read their
         | articles
        
           | pimlottc wrote:
           | Same on Firefox (macOS). Reader mode worked, though.
        
           | red_trumpet wrote:
           | It did come back for me after some extra seconds though...
        
         | bmacho wrote:
         | https://archive.ph/2000/https://thehustle.co/the-surreal-lif...
         | 
         | edit: no pictures.
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | > Her life is a romantic comedy waiting to happen.
       | 
       | For those who wonder, I'll save you the google search: yes the
       | movie has been made and is called "the professional bridesmaid".
       | it was released in 2023.
        
         | throwup238 wrote:
         | Considering how many times the subject ends up crying in a
         | bathroom in the article, it should be more of a dark
         | tragicomedy.
        
           | mcphage wrote:
           | Weddings are emotional events, even at the best of times. But
           | also a lot of effort and planning and stress.
        
             | arethuza wrote:
             | My wife's mother was very keen on a large wedding, my wife
             | wasn't - we were watching a holiday program on TV and they
             | had weddings in Mauritius and she announced "we're doing
             | that!".
             | 
             | Anyway, we ended up getting married in the Seychelles and
             | it was blissful and zero stress... and cost a _lot_ less
             | than a normal marriage. That was 34 years ago so something
             | must have worked.
        
               | cafard wrote:
               | Less when counting in transportation? Where did you live
               | at the time?
        
               | arethuza wrote:
               | Scotland
               | 
               | So we had to fly from Edinburgh -> LHR -> Seychelles
               | 
               | Looking at the current price from the same travel company
               | and hotel it would be ~PS8K - still cheaper than most
               | weddings. The actual cost of the "wedding" part was
               | pretty small.
               | 
               | Edit: One thing I do remember is that flight out was full
               | of stressed out newly weds!
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | Destination weddings can save a lot of money by having
               | far fewer guests, while still retaining the most-
               | important-day-of-your-life glamour that a small scale
               | registry office wedding might lack.
               | 
               | Obviously, you _can_ have a small scale wedding in your
               | home country. But a lot of people feel they _ought_ to
               | invite their second-cousin-twice-removed and their family
               | of five, while spending PS200 a head on venue and food
               | costs.
               | 
               | If attending the wedding needs a PS1000 flight and a week
               | off work, your guest list will drop from 100 people to
               | 10.
        
               | arethuza wrote:
               | The hotel we were at arranged a free room swap with
               | another couple on another island for a few days so we
               | even got a "honeymoon". We went to this hotel for a few
               | nights:
               | 
               | https://www.larchipel.com/
        
               | KineticLensman wrote:
               | > If attending the wedding needs a PS1000 flight and a
               | week off work, your guest list will drop from 100 people
               | to 10.
               | 
               | That didn't work (in fact wasn't intended) for my niece
               | when she got married.
               | 
               | The hotel deal (all inclusive in Cyprus) made it much
               | cheaper for them than an equivalent do in the UK - e.g.
               | cheaper extras such as videographers than in the UK,
               | bigger meal, etc. The resort-style hotel was also cheaper
               | than staying in the UK and the long lead times made
               | flights / bookings quite affordable. Some of the guests
               | treated it as an annual beach holiday with added party.
               | 
               | (Personally I thought it was ghastly)
        
               | com wrote:
               | We did an almost-free registry office thing (the free
               | ones were booked out a year in advance). One witness from
               | each side and a surprise attendee who was literally in
               | town at the time (we didn't invite friends and family
               | because of family drama and logistics issues).
               | 
               | It was a very sweet event where the registrant and their
               | assistant were clearly hopeless romantics - they told us,
               | true or not, that they had won the in-office ballot for
               | who could marry us after we charmed the intake panel when
               | we went in to book - the historic room was intimate and
               | charming and the party we organised that evening for
               | unsuspecting local friends was a huge success.
               | 
               | All up it must have cost us less than two hundred euros,
               | and was an unutterably perfect day. And our unexpected
               | guest took a great video (which seems to have been lost
               | somehow :-)
               | 
               | For some people, simple and small is impossible to beat!
        
               | throw0101c wrote:
               | > _Destination weddings can save a lot of money by having
               | far fewer guests_ [...]
               | 
               | I do not know which cultural background you are from, but
               | with my background, guests generally show up with
               | Hallmark(r) envelopes containing cash. If you budget
               | assiduously it may even be possible to turn a profit on
               | the reception.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | In my country the tradition is to gift things for the
               | couple to start their own home together (e.g. useful
               | household goods) with value roughly in line with the cost
               | of inviting you.
               | 
               | And this no doubt made great sense when people got
               | married young, and someone gifting them a set of pots and
               | pans was just what they needed.
               | 
               | In the present age, where people frequently live together
               | before marriage and get married later in life, they
               | generally already _have_ all the pots and pans they need.
               | 
               | So often the couple will either say they don't need any
               | gifts, or they'll end up with luxury replacements for
               | what they already had (e.g. copper bottomed pans to
               | replace stainless steel)
               | 
               | You might not consider it a _loss_ but if inviting your
               | second-cousin-twice-removed and their family converts
               | PS1000 of cash into PS1000 of luxury saucepans you end up
               | with a lot less cash on hand.
        
               | throw0101c wrote:
               | > _In my country the tradition is to gift things for the
               | couple to start their own home together (e.g. useful
               | household goods) with value roughly in line with the cost
               | of inviting you._
               | 
               | If couples need things they set up a registry for any
               | items they want. If there is no registry, bring cash. :)
               | 
               | The general expectation is either you'll buy a gift or
               | give cash (to at least cover the rough cost of you
               | attending).
        
               | rsynnott wrote:
               | I assume the theory is that most people won't want to
               | travel to Mauritius for a wedding, so you end up with a
               | smaller wedding.
               | 
               | (Of course, you could just invite fewer people, either.)
        
               | davidgay wrote:
               | There's also the "get married on top of Half-Dome trick"
               | (13km hike one way, 1.6km elevation gain for non-
               | Californians) - keeps the wedding party small and fit!
               | 
               | I didn't do it, but did see one ;)
        
         | bewaretheirs wrote:
         | Gilbert and Sullivan's "Ruddigore" (first performed in 1887)
         | features a chorus of "professional bridesmaids" who are
         | experiencing a bit of a lull in business:
         | Hannah: Nay, gentle maidens, you sing well but vainly, for Rose
         | is still heart-free, and looks but coldly upon her many
         | suitors.            Zorah: It's very disappointing.  Every
         | young man in the village is in love with her, but they are
         | appalled by her beauty and modesty, and won't declare
         | themselves; so, until she makes her own choice, there's no
         | chance for anybody else.            Ruth: This is, perhaps, the
         | only village in the world that possesses an endowed corps of
         | professional bridesmaids who are bound to be on duty every day
         | from ten to four--and it is at least six months since our
         | services were required.  The pious charity by which we exist is
         | practically wasted!
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | This seems like it is a consequence of shrinking family size and
       | people not having extended family. See the discussion today on HN
       | about lack of cousins:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39340501
       | 
       | In the past, you had more relatives than spots. Now many people
       | have more spots than relatives.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | What happened to friends though?
        
           | Uvix wrote:
           | WFH happened.
        
             | master-lincoln wrote:
             | Only related for people whose sole friends are from their
             | work, no?
        
               | ghettoCoder wrote:
               | Friend circles have generally been primarily driven by
               | proximity, with school & work being the main
               | environments. Take away the forced socializing of work
               | and all of sudden you have late 20s people with few or no
               | friends since drifting away from most school friendships.
               | 
               | The pandemic taught me that absent forced social
               | interactions such as work meetings, water cooler chat,
               | etc... it takes deliberate actions to maintain social
               | relationships, more so the secondary relationships. It's
               | just too easy to dive into our work all day without
               | speaking to anyone not in our direct line of reporting.
        
               | spazx wrote:
               | In my professional experience (since before the
               | pandemic), I've been encouraged not to mix work with my
               | personal life. Regardless, even when I ignored this
               | advice and did share personal details and be myself, the
               | interactions have always felt disingenuous. For me at
               | least, being an actual friend and keeping up a
               | professional appearance are mutually exclusive.
               | 
               | I suppose I've personally been very fortunate to remain
               | friends with a lot of people from my childhood, and meet
               | others through them. Even the people I have met through
               | friends only recently, feel more genuine than older
               | personal connections made through work. (None of my
               | friends spend personal time with people they've met
               | through work, either!)
               | 
               | Interactions with work people will always have that
               | veneer of trying to look and sound one's best in the
               | professional sense, in protection of one's career. In
               | friendships you shouldn't be afraid to show your flaws,
               | imperfections, personal beliefs, personal history, the
               | squishy parts.
        
               | saalweachter wrote:
               | I think this is also why we feel so betrayed by tech
               | layoffs.
               | 
               | Everyone gets laid off, we aren't special here, but
               | what's a _little_ unusual is that tech employees are
               | highly migratory.
               | 
               | You get out of college, and you move to one of a handful
               | of tech centers, in the US and around the world. And then
               | -- fostered by the company -- you build your new social
               | circle out of everyone you've met at work who is in the
               | same situation of having just moved a thousand miles and
               | started a new chapter of their life. You go out for
               | dinner and drinks after work, you start boardgame nights,
               | you play in a work-based soccer league. Your entire
               | social life revolves around your friends from work.
               | 
               | And then, the company decides to cut headcount.
               | 
               | Tech employees have it a lot easier than, say, factory
               | workers in most ways, when we're laid off. We've probably
               | got more savings, our job market tends to be hotter, and
               | we're not looking for work in one of the two places in
               | town, one of which has already laid us off.
               | 
               | But it really takes a knife to your social circle, which
               | stings, even if you're not the person laid off. I'm not
               | sure it affects people who are working a job in their
               | home town, with all their old friends and family and
               | social activities linked to geography instead of
               | employment, in the same way.
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | From the article, it seems like the people she was helping
           | generally _had_ friends doing it as well; her role really
           | seems to be more of a combo wedding planner/crisis management
           | thing.
        
             | baking wrote:
             | I don't think so. They are very different roles.
        
         | marcus0x62 wrote:
         | Sure, and the pressure some people place on themselves to have
         | a "perfect" wedding. Wedding culture, at least in the US, is
         | completely out of control. The whole thing is a weird (mostly)
         | self-inflicted scam meant to separate people, usually just
         | starting out in life, from their money. As much of their money
         | as possible.
         | 
         | I was talking about this a while back with a co-worker about 20
         | years older than me: when I got married (around 15 years ago,)
         | we spent like 6 grand, all in. He said 'man, when I got married
         | we used the rec room at our church for free and got a sheet
         | cake from the grocery store.' That would have been in the early
         | 80's. He and his wife are still married, and, so far as I can
         | tell, have not suffered from the lack of a supremely expensive
         | wedding.
        
           | russfink wrote:
           | Comedian Jim Gaffigan does a bit on weddings - it's when you
           | get to be a princess. Of course, kingdoms don't come cheap.
        
           | toss1 wrote:
           | Good on you both! I've often heard that the wedding spend
           | total is inversely proportional to the length of the
           | marriage.
           | 
           | (When the spending is crazy, one must ask what 'for what are
           | they compensating?').
        
             | mattgreenrocks wrote:
             | This is the sort of thing people never really warn you
             | about.
        
             | qingcharles wrote:
             | $25K on mine. Lasted four years, although that was mostly
             | my fault.
        
               | a_shoeboy wrote:
               | $6K on mine, 17 years and counting. How many more of
               | these anecdotes do we need before can call it data?
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | Somewhat unexpectedly, [1] which is based on actual
               | university research, reports the opposite: Figure 9 says
               | people who had more guests at their wedding report better
               | marriage outcomes - even after controlling for income,
               | education, race/ethnicity and religiousness.
               | 
               | Of course, if you want to discard the research and stick
               | with your anecdotes, it _was_ partly funded by a charity
               | founded by a guy who believed in  'strong families'.
               | 
               | [1] http://before-i-do.org/
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | You'd probably want to control for wealth to get good
               | data. Marriage duration is correlated with wealth, and
               | wealthy people probably spend more on everything,
               | weddings included.
               | 
               | [edit] nevermind, the the posted link claims the figures
               | are controlled for several factors, including income and
               | education, which both correlate with wealth.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | My wife was an only child from a wealthy family; short of
             | destroying the relationship with her mother, we had little
             | say in the cost of the wedding[1]. That being said, it
             | really was a lovely wedding and a good time was had by all.
             | 
             | 1: We compromised; the ceremony was all us, her mom planned
             | the reception, with input from us. It is still mind-
             | boggling to me how much her mom was invested; they normally
             | get along fine (both before and since), but I was seriously
             | worried that planning the wedding would destroy their
             | relationship.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | I've been to a few weddings at VFW's in small towns. They
           | were no better (or worse) than the big fancy ones! The
           | couples fared no better (or worse) than any others.
        
       | andy99 wrote:
       | The most interesting part to me was the trend of hiring birds of
       | prey as ring bearers (link from the article)
       | 
       | https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/weddings-falcons-raptors-ring-...
       | 
       | What could possibly go wrong?
        
         | htrp wrote:
         | Not quite that much..... but it's still a crazy idea
        
         | mcphage wrote:
         | "Just so we're clear, you're saying 'Ring Bear _-er_ ', right?"
         | - repeated joke from the final season of How I Met Your Mother
        
         | HanClinto wrote:
         | They should have used the eagles to transport the ring.
        
       | midasuni wrote:
       | 1 bed apartment for a couple with a baby and dog?
       | 
       | I'm guessing the 100k/yr is revenue not profit.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | Note: "Manhattan".
         | 
         | (Also of course if it's a new baby they may just not have
         | gotten around to moving yet. But 100k doesn't exactly make you
         | fabulously well-off in Manhattan.)
        
           | obloid wrote:
           | The article says Williamsburg, which is in Brooklyn, but
           | still NYC so that 100k is not going to get you much.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | Oh, oops, you're right. She started the business in a
             | Manhattan apartment, but Williamsburg now, yeah.
        
             | alexwhb wrote:
             | I can attest to this. 100k in Brooklyn... especially the
             | nicer areas is barely enough honestly. Especially now in
             | 2024.
        
         | shermantanktop wrote:
         | They're living well in NYC: _no_ _roommates_.
        
       | brodouevencode wrote:
       | The number in the wedding party blows my mind. We had four total
       | and that was two too many.
        
       | DrNosferatu wrote:
       | She's a farmer of Bridezillas - clever girl! (maybe hunter-
       | gatherer)
       | 
       | ...or an engineer that builds the bridge between reality and the
       | image people want to project about themselves. Amazing food for
       | thought.
        
         | sdwr wrote:
         | She's writing people's papers for them at the last minute.
         | 
         | "Everyone knows" that your wedding is the place to show off
         | your strong social ties. What do you do when the deadline is
         | approaching, and your stomach starts sinking in dread and shame
         | as the people in your Rolodex aren't as numerous or committed
         | as they should be?
        
           | DrNosferatu wrote:
           | What's the point of living in a - painful and expensive -
           | lie?
           | 
           | (besides Glantz's income, obviously)
        
             | gardenmud wrote:
             | Based on the article, she provides the services of a sort
             | of on-call talk therapist/emotional support that overlaps
             | with services typically provided by a personal assistant or
             | maid of honor, like keeping the bridesmaids organized and
             | on track. Honestly, I get it. If you don't have a willing
             | volunteer, there's no shame in hiring a personal assistant
             | for the job. Where she really excels is selling it as
             | something fun and chic, not desperate; 'extra bridesmaid to
             | fill out the group' is a lot more palatable than 'hired
             | help'.
        
               | araes wrote:
               | There's also a certain caste of society, where spending
               | $5000 to not have any stress about an event, is really
               | not that big a deal. Plus, then you're not dropping it on
               | your "best friend" to handle the whole thing, which ends
               | up being a weird inverse form of punishment for being
               | friends so long.
        
             | sdwr wrote:
             | Well, the truth is painful, the lie is expensive - while
             | she's pretending to be your friend, everything is ok. And
             | if you actually had a friend who was that beautiful and
             | graceful and dedicated to you, everything would be ok!
             | 
             | Whether the service is pathetic or not depends on how it's
             | used.
        
       | pjc50 wrote:
       | Not an entirely new profession. In the past, this sort of thing
       | used to happen more often with funerals and professional
       | mourners; now _that_ has well and truly gone in the West.
       | 
       | There is an anecdote in _Naples 44_ about how the narrator 's
       | "fixer" in Naples had had a side gig as an "uncle from Rome" at
       | funerals. By turning up in the right suit with the right accent
       | and social graces this would enhance the social status of the
       | deceased.
       | 
       | There used to be something of a market for "professional token
       | Westerner" in Chinese events. I've no idea if that's still a
       | thing.
        
         | timmg wrote:
         | > There used to be something of a market for "professional
         | token Westerner" in Chinese events. I've no idea if that's
         | still a thing.
         | 
         | About ten years ago, my wife and I visited China (with private
         | guides). We were in a medium-sized town -- don't remember
         | which, but might have been the one with the panda preserve. We
         | had lunch scheduled at a local restaurant in town.
         | 
         | The restaurant was on the second floor. As the elevator went
         | up, we heard a thumping sound like a bass drum. The elevator
         | opened and we were in the middle of the _start_ of an elaborate
         | wedding. It seems that the restaurant was booked for this
         | wedding, but we still had seats off to the side.
         | 
         | It was just coincidence that we got there just as things were
         | getting started. As we made our way around the outside of the
         | room, we happened to pass the bridal party.
         | 
         | As we were passing, the bride-to-be stopped us an graciously
         | thanked us for coming to her wedding (in English) and said they
         | were honored to have us.
         | 
         | It was very surreal. The wedding itself was like a mini rock
         | concert with many people on stage at various times -- including
         | (I remember) two women in white dresses rocking out on electric
         | violins.
        
           | CydeWeys wrote:
           | Oh man that's hilarious. Your tour group hornswoggled you
           | into being the token Westerner, and you paid for the
           | privilege!
        
           | kurthr wrote:
           | Possibly near Chengdu, Mianyang?
           | 
           | I'll agree with others, this was unlikely to be an accident.
           | But hey, you were entertained and they got to show off their
           | English!
        
             | timmg wrote:
             | It was _probably_ Chengdu. That would be funny if it was on
             | purpose!
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | Professional token westerners (white monkeys) are still a thing
         | in China. The government has even started hiring them for
         | propaganda purposes.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/0HGgzK2yVX4?si=D_XIp8f2siDTo9ow
        
         | AlecSchueler wrote:
         | My father was cremated last year. He had no friends at the time
         | of his death. The undertakers had extra staff on hand to watch
         | the service and fill the empty chairs. Professional mourners
         | are still active in the west, at least in the north of Ireland.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | I'm sorry for your loss.
           | 
           | How many staff vs other attendees?
           | 
           | I don't see the value of that scenario. Who is saving face?
        
             | euroderf wrote:
             | Maybe it's just the Christian thing to do.
        
             | AlecSchueler wrote:
             | There were about 6 staff and about the same number of
             | attendees including myself, that was his brothers, sisters
             | and son.
             | 
             | His brother organised the funeral and accepted this offer
             | from the undertakers. His brother is a practicing
             | Christian. I had the impression that the numbers were
             | mostly inflated to save the minister from the shame of
             | giving a memorial service to someone so few people wanted
             | to remember.
        
             | michaelt wrote:
             | Presumably it's for the benefit of the survivors.
             | 
             | Going to your dad's or your husband's funeral would already
             | be pretty depressing. For it to be a _poorly attended_
             | funeral would make it even moreso, for some folks.
             | 
             | Especially if you're big on the idea of the deceased living
             | on in the memory of all the people whose lives they
             | touched. Or if the deceased actually had a great many
             | friends, but lived to an old enough age their friends
             | predeceased them.
             | 
             | Plus, if you're going for the type of funeral with lots of
             | hymns and singing and prayers and suchlike, a few more
             | voices can help things along.
             | 
             | And while you might _strongly suspect_ the surviving
             | relatives are all indifferent to the funeral being poorly
             | attended, it 's not like you get a do-over if it turns out
             | on the day they're less stoic than you imagined.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | I seriously doubt the family of the type of person that
               | would have nobody attend their funeral would be surprised
               | by that fact, and would probably be wondering why they
               | showed up at all themselves.
        
               | mynameisvlad wrote:
               | This is such a callous statement.
               | 
               | Maybe all their friends already died. Maybe they just
               | were never social outside of their family.
               | 
               | Whatever the reason, nobody should have to go into a
               | relative's (or, really, anyone else's) funeral and see it
               | empty. That's going to do nothing but twist the dagger of
               | the death more.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | And how would you feel if you were to find out that the
               | funeral director tried to gamify the funeral by having
               | seat fillers? That's even more insulting that someone
               | tried to pull one over, and feeds directly into the
               | stereotype that funerals try to gouge the families.
        
               | mynameisvlad wrote:
               | I would certainly be happier than seeing _absolutely
               | nobody_ on top of grieving for a loss.
               | 
               | As someone that has had to grieve alone, I don't think
               | you understand the comfort that comes from having
               | _somebody_ there.
               | 
               | Also, this is most assuredly a service they'd be
               | providing. Nobody is going to be "gouged". Nothing is
               | being "gamified". Nobody is "pulling one over". Those are
               | all based on an assumption that this isn't part of a
               | planned process, which literally every part of a funeral
               | is.
        
               | AlecSchueler wrote:
               | Yes, it's very true in my experience with undertakers
               | that they are very respectful even in business matters.
               | They ask you if you would like something but there's
               | never a sense of pressure, and they're very accommodating
               | to alternatives. I've also found them to be very
               | professional and efficient in operation in a way that is
               | itself a comfort in difficult times.
               | 
               | But I wanted to say that you're quite right that it's
               | very helpful to have someone to hear. The people who live
               | on with memories of the departed need to have their
               | stories heard.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | I had a bit of the opposite experience when an ex-colleague
           | passed end of last year. About 25 of us from one company he
           | worked at showed up to the wake and it was slightly awkward
           | to tell the family and friends who we were and what
           | connection we had (he hadn't worked there for about 9 years
           | and I was the only person who still worked at the company,
           | but we all turned out because we genuinely cared about him).
           | 
           | But talking to his wife and family in the receiving line was
           | super-awkward. I hope they found it at least epsilon
           | comforting.
        
             | monknomo wrote:
             | I had a similar experience when a co-worker passed. It was
             | awkward, but I do hope the family felt something positive
             | from seeing that a part of their loved one's life they
             | don't normally see also cared for him.
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | Why was it awkward? Because there were few enough family &
             | others that it was dominated by former colleagues from one
             | seemingly random employer?
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | No; in a 2 hour wake, there were probably 150 or more
               | people in total. The awkwardness was mostly having to
               | explain "yeah, you've never met me and he hasn't worked
               | with us for almost a decade, but hey, here we are..."
        
               | vimax wrote:
               | Not awkward at all. I'm sure the family was touched that
               | you still thought about him after all those years.
        
               | theflyingelvis wrote:
               | My 27 y/o nephew passed away last year. He worked at a
               | mid sized tech firm and many of the folks from the firm
               | showed up at the funeral. His parents really appreciated
               | the folks showing up. So, yeah, not awkward at all.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | This also happens just in general; the staff of the funeral
           | home often attends the service just because they'd have
           | nothing else to do and need to assist with transfer to the
           | hearse, grave, etc.
           | 
           | It's only really noticed when it's a small service.
           | 
           | In the USA if you're a veteran or veteran associated the
           | local VFW will send out a color guard to attend.
        
           | throw0101c wrote:
           | > _My father was cremated last year. He had no friends at the
           | time of his death._
           | 
           | Something that often happens with men: they tend to (on
           | average) not be as big social butterflies as women, and so
           | any past friends they had fade into the background/disappear.
           | It takes time/effort to keep relationships going.
           | 
           | "Why most men don't have enough close friends"
           | 
           | * https://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/why-most-men-don-t-have-
           | eno...
           | 
           | "Men have fewer friends than ever, and it's harming their
           | health"
           | 
           | * https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/23323556/men-friendship-
           | lo...
           | 
           | "Men's Social Circles are Shrinking"
           | 
           | * https://www.americansurveycenter.org/why-mens-social-
           | circles...
           | 
           | "Men struggle to keep friends -- and it's hurting their
           | mental health"
           | 
           | * https://globalnews.ca/news/6112225/male-friendship-mental-
           | he...
           | 
           | "More than 1 in 7 men have no close friends. The way we
           | socialize boys is to blame":
           | 
           | * https://www.latimes.com/lifestyle/newsletter/2023-10-10/mor
           | e...
           | 
           | Also, with people having fewer children (if any), support
           | structures toward the end of life are getting smaller and
           | smaller.
        
             | ThrowawayR2 wrote:
             | Macabre though it may be, I've often thought about
             | submitting a YC proposal for a startup that provides
             | professional executor services for those who are facing
             | death alone. Demand is only going to increase as time goes
             | by and, as many internet articles show, it can be difficult
             | to find an executor that one trusts if they have a small
             | social circle.
        
               | bennettnate5 wrote:
               | Just to clarify for everyone (because I totally misread
               | this the first time):                 Executor - A person
               | officially appointed to carry out your will after you
               | have passed              Executioner - A person
               | officially appointed to carry out your passing
        
               | knodi123 wrote:
               | although in both cases, Trust is very important.
        
               | rightbyte wrote:
               | There have to been fatal mixups regarding this. Maybe not
               | as bad as "inflammable".
        
               | ASUfool wrote:
               | As the executor of my dad's estate, he would have fun
               | with the similar words and call me his ex eh cuter.
               | 
               | Thanks for reminding me of our shared joy of words. :)
               | 
               | R.I.P. Dad.
        
               | echion wrote:
               | hmu
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | In the UK, some solicitors and accountants already
               | provide this service.
               | 
               | They don't market it as "facing death alone" though, they
               | market it more as "giving the family time to grieve" and
               | "getting complex paperwork right"
        
               | throw0101c wrote:
               | > a YC proposal for a startup that provides professional
               | executor services
               | 
               | There are law firms already doing this. From a quick
               | search of my area (Toronto, Canada):
               | 
               | * https://www.millsandmills.ca/areas-of-practice/wills-
               | estates...
               | 
               | * https://ontario-probate.ca/estate-administration-
               | executor-se...
               | 
               | * https://mcdonaldestateservices.ca/services
        
               | azinman2 wrote:
               | Seems odd to make that a VC-backed entity. That said I
               | think the most important aspect is knowing the service
               | will be around when you die. Updating wills, plans is
               | expensive, and if someone has dementia etc and this goes
               | bust because 90% of "startups" do, then that's a real
               | problem.
        
               | resolutebat wrote:
               | But just imagine all the "growth hacks" you could do,
               | both to increase the dearly departed clientele and the
               | amount of profit you could extract from them!
        
               | ebiester wrote:
               | Lawyers already do this. What would you have as a value
               | add?
        
             | danenania wrote:
             | Apart from this issue, which is certainly important, almost
             | anyone can end up without friends at the end of their lives
             | if they outlive their friends and have no opportunities to
             | make new ones as they get older.
        
             | AlecSchueler wrote:
             | He was a paedophile and a serial sex offender who alienated
             | most of his friends and family, dying with more enemies
             | than friends. Sexual violence is also more prevalent in men
             | and it's important to remember that so we can be more
             | responsible parents and educators for young boys.
        
             | wonderwonder wrote:
             | Yup, when I go I expect it will just be my kids there and
             | my wife. Same situation happened when my dad died, just us
             | kids.
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | "DEI with Chinese Characteristics"
        
           | carlosjobim wrote:
           | Your comment is down voted, while the comment above calling
           | people of a certain race "monkeys" is upvoted. That says
           | something about the crowd here.
           | 
           | Reminds me of the images of George W Bush as a chimpanzee.
           | Didn't see any more such images when he got his successor.
        
             | jplrssn wrote:
             | Surely you know that the history of using "monkey" as an
             | epithet is extremely charged? It is not a neutral term.
        
               | stronglikedan wrote:
               | Only regionally. In the global context, it's quite
               | neutral.
        
               | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
               | I look forward to the day where I can call a black man a
               | monkey and it only be considered an insult instead of a
               | racist insult.
        
               | carlosjobim wrote:
               | Why do you think I mentioned that hackers are upvoting a
               | comment calling people of a certain skin color monkeys?
        
             | woooooo wrote:
             | "DEI with Chinese characteristics" is hilarious, downvotes
             | are probably just reflexive anti-politics.
        
             | duskwuff wrote:
             | > the comment above calling people of a certain race
             | "monkeys" is upvoted
             | 
             | If you're referring to nradov's comment, Bai Hou Zi  (lit.
             | "white monkey") is a commonly used term in China for a
             | token Westerner.
        
         | neom wrote:
         | Per your last point, I worked at a very very very large Korean
         | company for a while (In Korea), and when they had a meeting
         | with the EU they would make sure they had some "hyin gagu"
         | (white furniture) - I found it quite amusing personally, others
         | not so much.
        
         | Turing_Machine wrote:
         | That's been around for a long time. In ancient Rome, hired
         | mourners were basically expected of anyone of any real social
         | status.
         | 
         | The professional mourners included actors who wore masks of the
         | deceased and any prominent ancestors, and imitated their
         | mannerisms and speech to the best of their ability.
        
       | rsynnott wrote:
       | > Maid of honor speeches, which cost $375 if they're written by
       | Glantz or $35 if she gets her AI assistant to help.
       | 
       | In which LLMs continue to ruin everything.
        
         | filoleg wrote:
         | Given the average quality of quite many maid of honor speeches,
         | they were imo ruined the second markov chains came into the
         | existence
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | I mean, the average wedding speech of any type is of course
           | _quite bad_ (most people not being accomplished public
           | speakers), but they're at least generally bad in a fairly
           | varied, human way. The mind-numbing same-y badness of all
           | ChatGPT prose would not be an improvement.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | The whole _point_ of the best man /maid of honor speech is
             | to tell some moderately embarrassing story from ages past.
             | 
             | Without that, who would even bother?
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | Exactly. It isn't a store opening speech or some other
               | super formal part of the wedding. Best man/maid of honor
               | speeches are usually supposed to be more of a
               | storytelling piece (of variable funniness) that ends on
               | some heartwarming and/or cute conclusion.
               | 
               | I wouldn't blame people for using chatGPT to generate
               | more formal/canned sorts of speeches, but the man/maid of
               | honor speech is imo a terrible application for that.
        
         | ibejoeb wrote:
         | How much worse is it than having an actual stranger write a
         | puff piece on you?
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | I mean, neither is great, but the one written by a human will
           | generally be less irritating.
        
         | shermantanktop wrote:
         | The LLM won't reveal what happened during that weekend in Ibiza
         | and drunkenly recount it to the extended family.
         | 
         | Not unless you add that context to the prompt, anyway.
        
       | Giorgi wrote:
       | I got that on email newsletter too and visiting her website, it
       | looks like she is one of those "marketeer/influencer" type, most
       | likely it is a marketing gimmick too.
        
       | totorovirus wrote:
       | There are professional wedding guests in Korea
        
       | ecmascript wrote:
       | Honestly this article is just really depressing. Just goes to
       | show how modern technology has ruined peoples lives in ways that
       | we could not anticipate. I always thought internet and social
       | media would bring you more friends but it appears like people are
       | way more lonely today and I identify as one of them.
       | 
       | Honestly, finding new friends as a grown up, especially as a man,
       | is very hard. But I rather have my wedding alone with just my
       | family than with some random people I pay. I'd rather not have
       | any party before the wedding than with people who are not my real
       | friends. Maybe that's just me but I find this "trend", if you can
       | call it that, a dystopia.
       | 
       | We don't need more fake friends, we need less.
        
         | COM2323 wrote:
         | Maybe it just depends where you live or how you use
         | internet/social media? For me it's actually much easier. As an
         | introvert I don't really like approaching random people "on the
         | street". So whenever I start a new hobby or interest I usually
         | just find some local community via their
         | website/forum/Facebook, participate online and then join them
         | in person. This has worked amazingly for me over the last 25+
         | years.
        
       | FrustratedMonky wrote:
       | Probably a big market beyond bridesmaid.
       | 
       | Uber for Friends.
       | 
       | There was netflix show with it as a subplot.
       | 
       | There was a phone app, and you could just hire a friend for an
       | afternoon to hang out.
        
         | syndicatedjelly wrote:
         | Could be a Nathan for You episode
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | I don't think it was, but could imagine that as a Black Mirror
         | episode. A bit similar to the social rating one.
        
       | focusedone wrote:
       | I worked at a wedding supply business during college and later as
       | a photographer. I've probably been paid to attend a couple
       | hundred weddings total.
       | 
       | It's a great way to see a wide cross section of people in a very
       | stressful situation. Some people get _so_ wound up on every
       | little detail and even minor deviations from an unattainable
       | perfection result in an avalanche of emotion.
       | 
       | Other people are totally chill and just there to celebrate
       | something special with family and friends.
       | 
       | Either way, I can 100% see the need / benefit of having a
       | professional (or seasoned wedding attender) in the wedding party.
       | Someone who's _seen some stuff_ and stays calm when whatever
       | nutso thing happens.
       | 
       | Even perfectly reasonable, chill couples will have that one crazy
       | aunt projecting expectations on everyone around them. Having
       | someone close to the party who can identify and firewall the
       | crazy can keep a wonderful day from becoming a stress fest.
       | 
       | Anyway, the professional in the article identified a real felt
       | need she could address and found a way to get paid fixing it.
       | Good for her!
        
         | mejarc wrote:
         | My courthouse wedding over 20 years ago cost $75, had no
         | showers, no attendants, no reception, and was memorialized only
         | by a snapshot taken by one of the affable court clerks. I've
         | never regretted it. The only way my spouse and I pulled it off
         | was to keep our plans secret from our families. My mother-in-
         | law resents me for that to this day.
        
           | groestl wrote:
           | To each their own. Some people enjoy giving parties, and then
           | it's just another reason to throw a big party.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | Weddings (and any other tradition/ritual that requires
             | sacrifice) are also an opportunity to display a level of
             | commitment to a broader tribe.
             | 
             | Regardless of one's philosophies, playing along with the
             | broader group's traditions and spending something
             | (time/money/effort) to do it is a signal to the others for
             | how invested you are in a particular group of people.
             | 
             | Obviously, like anything else, it can be overdone. But it
             | is not without value, and there is a reason wedding
             | celebrations came into being in cultures around the world.
        
             | KptMarchewa wrote:
             | Then do a party. Or 3. It will be still cheaper, because
             | anything in context of wedding makes the cost increase 5
             | times.
        
               | dap wrote:
               | I think this is easier said than done. You can certainly
               | save enormously by skipping a lot of the traditional
               | stuff (nice meal, music, cake, attire, photographer,
               | etc.) altogether. But there's a reason those things are
               | popular. A nice meal, music, and dancing make a great way
               | to include multiple generations (toddlers to elderly) and
               | people who don't necessarily know each other well (and
               | don't share interests) but are nonetheless important to
               | you. Throw in a photographer because these events are
               | often a treasured (and rare) source of extended family
               | photos and you've accounted for most of the cost of my
               | own wedding, which was about average.
               | 
               | We looked for options to save by having a 20% "less nice"
               | meal or a 40% "less good" photographer, but broadly
               | speaking, those aren't really levers that we found. I
               | guess you could try to lie to vendors and tell them that
               | the music is for a retirement party and that they're
               | going to be photographing a family reunion and hope they
               | charge you less? I'm not sure the extra cost is as
               | unreasonable as it sounds though. We were far from trying
               | to "get every detail right", but we did want the stuff we
               | paid for to show up. Just "showing up" with high
               | probability is a substantially higher level of service
               | than I get from most contractors/vendors/etc. that I've
               | worked with more broadly in my life and I'm not surprised
               | it would cost something.
        
               | PKop wrote:
               | Debating with men that a minimalist wedding will suffice
               | is pretty humorous; these aren't the people that need
               | convincing or dominating the demand for extravagant
               | weddings.
        
             | stuaxo wrote:
             | I like the idea of the party being separate, so many of
             | them the bride and groom aren't at the party too long as
             | they disappear to spend time with each other.
        
           | giraffe_lady wrote:
           | My wedding was the only time in my entire life I had every
           | person I love together in the same room. Worth ten thousand
           | dollars or more.
        
             | AtlasBarfed wrote:
             | So it's all about you?
        
               | guizzy wrote:
               | ...
               | 
               | Her wedding? Well, yeah, that's kind of the point, isn't
               | it? It being a day all about her and her mate?
        
           | msabalau wrote:
           | My wife and I did city hall, but with the encouragement of my
           | mother-in-law who thought it was it was smart and sensible.
           | (And, it was, in fact, what she had herself done.)
           | 
           | I managed to persuade my wife and mother-in-law that could be
           | fun to have a small celebratory reception for a close group
           | of immediate family members, which we did three months later.
           | Small and intimate, with 20 people, it was easy to pull off,
           | and the official marriage details were already complete, so
           | that was less pressure, and we could just focus on being
           | present with our guests.
           | 
           | And three months after that, we had a small reception with
           | friends, because I persuaded my wife that her close friends
           | would enjoy a chance to celebrate and see her in "the dress".
           | Which they did.
           | 
           | Splitting what would normally could be an overwhelming thing
           | into three small parts removed a lot of stress, was cost
           | effective, and also meant that the wedding gown got to be
           | used three times, not once and then stored. Maybe not the
           | best choice for everyone, but it can be a fun option.
        
             | r00fus wrote:
             | Definitely support the "rolling thunder" approach to
             | weddings vs "big bang" - our wedding years ago was in 3
             | different locations with 3 different groups (our kids are
             | very multi-ethnic/national) over the course of a year and
             | it would have been impossible to merge the 3 groups or
             | expectations (we joked about "extending the tour" to other
             | locations/groups but life intervened).
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | My wife and I did a city wall wedding and invited nobody. We
           | had doubts but conviction to do it. As the years go on we
           | only become more confident about that choice.
        
           | PKop wrote:
           | A huge portion of men would fine with this and wouldn't
           | regret it either, but it doesn't happen that often for
           | obvious reasons and likely never will.
        
           | sverona wrote:
           | My husband and I did this, basically.
           | 
           | Our idea is to do the whole celebration thing in a few years.
           | We'll renew our vows for an anniversary and do all the
           | planning then.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | This is a kind of person that people just generally need in
         | their friend group for life.
        
       | alexwhb wrote:
       | Really interesting read. Thanks for posting. Pretty sad how many
       | people seem to not have enough close friends, but it is
       | understandable the more self isolated and individualistic our
       | culture gets.
        
       | kunle wrote:
       | I don't think AI is going to replace this job anytime soon.
        
         | tsss wrote:
         | It did replace her last job very successfully.
        
       | guidoism wrote:
       | When I was 23 years old, just out of college, just moved across
       | the country my friend from high school got married. We never
       | talked over the phone or email just hung out when we were both in
       | our hometown.
       | 
       | He asked me (along with the rest of our group) to be in his
       | wedding. He was the first of my friends to get married.
       | 
       | When I arrived I was appalled at the amount of money I was
       | expected to pay. I paid for the plane flight across the country,
       | yes that was expected. I got to the hotel and checked into the
       | room he reserved for me but I had to pay for that (I would have
       | gotten a cheaper hotel if I had known). The next day we drove out
       | to a tux place and I was fitted for the tux. And I had to pay for
       | that too, I think it was like maybe $150 to rent the tux. I was
       | blown away by the costs of everything. Then during the wedding I
       | find out that I'm an usher, I was just there to walk guests to
       | their seats.
       | 
       | I think I paid like $600, not something I could easily afford 23
       | years ago.
       | 
       | It wouldn't have big that big of a deal if I had known beforehand
       | but the costs were completely unexpected. I know better now. And
       | have happily paid, but people getting married should be upfront
       | with their wedding party how much it's going to cost them to be
       | in the wedding.
        
         | raptorraver wrote:
         | My sister just told that she's flying to Italy for her friend's
         | weddings next summer. I asked if her friend's future husband is
         | from Italy or if they have some connection there: nope, they
         | decided to arrange it there because it's much cheaper for them.
         | Don't think they though about the costs for their guests, nor
         | environment.
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | > but people getting married should be upfront with their
         | wedding party how much it's going to cost them to be in the
         | wedding.
         | 
         | Are you not from the states?
         | 
         | It's common knowledge / _assumed_ that you pay for everything
         | beside dinner and drinks.
        
           | KittenInABox wrote:
           | I was surprised by this too. I was raised in the states but
           | my family is extremely chill when it comes to weddings, never
           | more than a small ceremony at court + dinner.
        
       | anonu wrote:
       | There's a market for everything...
        
       | tsss wrote:
       | People like that have the easiest life ever and then act like
       | they're fighting in the Vietnamese jungle.
        
       | themadturk wrote:
       | I got married 42 years ago next month. We had hardly any money,
       | but had a full-blown church wedding. My wife's mother made the
       | wedding gown as a wedding gift. Her dad, a certified gemologist,
       | designed and made the ring (I only had to buy the diamond; the
       | gold and his services were free). A lifelong friend of her
       | parents was the wedding coordinator. We had a friend do pictures;
       | he agreed to buy the film and we paid for that and his time, and
       | we did the processing ourselves (long, long before digital). The
       | reception was a potluck. I don't remember how much it cost us,
       | but it was affordable to us, thanks to generous friends and
       | family.
        
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