[HN Gopher] Brazil's hydro power adds to global gas surplus
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Brazil's hydro power adds to global gas surplus
Author : rustoo
Score : 25 points
Date : 2024-02-11 19:03 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| forinti wrote:
| The irony is that the distribution company in my state has been
| privatised and the QoS has nosedived. People are looking for
| backups and by far the fastest and easiest solution is to buy a
| diesel powered generator (which doesn't have the same
| emissions/noise requirements as cars).
|
| There is visible growth in solar, but you see it more often in
| businesses, because the return on investment takes a long time
| for a house (10-15 years).
| Affric wrote:
| In Brazil?
|
| In Australia ROI for solar is 3-5 years. Why do you think the
| discrepancy? Aircon? Grid prices?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Brazil solar payback should be closer to 2-5 years.
|
| https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56200
| seiferteric wrote:
| For roof top solar? Can you give an example of some
| numbers? Around here in NorCal, would cost ~20k for a
| system, and would save maybe $2400 a year, so would be more
| like 8.3 years.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| US residential rooftop is wildly expensive compared to
| other countries due to soft costs ($3-$4/watt vs $1-2).
| California's "unique" electric utility and solar policy
| approach doesn't help.
|
| I put solar on a friend's roof in Sydney Australia (their
| landlord's specifically, due to a lease to purchase
| agreement) for under $1/watt.
| dalyons wrote:
| I have noticed this! But I dont get it. Construction
| labour in the US is generally much cheaper than in
| australia. In fact almost everything is cheaper in the
| US. Why is solar so much more expensive? whats in those
| "soft costs"?
| joecool1029 wrote:
| > whats in those "soft costs"?
|
| In short: bureaucracy. Depends on state but electrical
| things and stuff attached to houses usually requires
| greasing the local municipality with permits, submitting
| a plan, and hiring licensed electricians that cost way
| more than a general contractor. It may even require
| presenting it for approval to a HOA or town committee
| (god forbid the house might be historic, then it's
| another committee)
|
| EDIT: My parents looked into it in NJ awhile back but
| their land is farm preserved and it's super restrictive
| on how much they can cover with a 'solar farm'. Also, it
| requires studies that prove it won't cast shadows or
| reflect onto neighboring properties. The township is
| extremely restrictive on what can be built anywhere (for
| example the center parts of it are mostly a deadzone for
| cellphones since the towers must only be installed on the
| border of the township).
| jillesvangurp wrote:
| Import regulations means Chinese equipment that you buy
| is a bit more expensive. The domestically produced stuff
| is not cheaper or better or that widely available.
|
| The rest is just a mix of bureaucracy, regulations,
| building codes, energy companies frustrating the whole
| process, etc.
|
| An additional factor is latitude. In Australia places
| like Sydney and Brisbane, are a lot closer to the equator
| than most of the US. San Diego is about comparable (well
| slightly closer) with Melbourne in how close it is to the
| equator. So, they'd be getting a bit more out of their
| panels even in the middle of their winter.
|
| I'm in Germany, most of the country is about ten degrees
| further north than most of the US. People put solar on
| their roofs here because it works and there are some
| incentives. So, it's not that big of a factor. But if you
| add it all up, the US should be getting its solar a lot
| cheaper than it currently is.
| seiferteric wrote:
| I had wondered about that... I am actually contemplating
| installing my own solar from a kit, which costs about
| half as much.
| andyferris wrote:
| Off the top of my head, I thought US$20k would get you
| roof top solar plus a house battery in Australia.
|
| Which might have a longer ROI.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| > For roof top solar?
|
| Yes.
|
| > Can you give an example of some numbers?
|
| Yes.
|
| I have a total of 23 solar panels with a maximum output
| of just over 1 megawatt/month. The system cost around
| 34,000 BRL which is around 6,850 USD at current rates.
| Its expected lifetime is 25 years and it broke even in
| about three and half years. Current energy prices in
| USD/kWh varies between 0.15 and 0.17. The panels have
| been operating for about five years now and capacity has
| been expanded once already. They have generated a total
| of around 45 megawatts. In 2023 output maxed out in
| november at 1.072 megawatts and bottomed out in june at
| 396 kilowatts. The highest output ever recorded was
| 1.13639 megawatts in january 2021.
|
| We have no batteries. In Brazil there's no way to go 100%
| off the grid so we decided against it.
| brnt wrote:
| > I have a total of 23 solar panels with a maximum output
| of nearly 1 megawatt.
|
| Panels do 400-500Wp these days. Times 23 gives a max of
| 11500W peak. You are off somewhere, or tell me right now
| where you got those panels.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| You're right, sorry. That figure is energy output _per
| month_. Edited the post to make that clear. Added some
| extra statistics too from the monitoring software 's
| report.
| fmobus wrote:
| What's the regulatory situation for selling energy back to
| the grid? Friend of mine 10+ years ago in Porto Alegre
| opted for solar for water heating only, because there was
| no mechanism for net metering.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| > the return on investment takes a long time for a house
|
| I completely covered my home's front rooftop with solar panels
| and they paid for themselves in about three years time. They're
| so effective that we have politicians campaigning _against_
| government incentives for renewable energy. Too many rich
| people and corporations are benefiting it seems, can 't have
| that.
|
| This is despite the fact that they don't actually pay us for
| the energy we generate. They give us "kWh credits" which expire
| if unused after one year. Were it not for that, I'd have even
| more solar panels in service.
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