[HN Gopher] Brazil's hydro power adds to global gas surplus
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       Brazil's hydro power adds to global gas surplus
        
       Author : rustoo
       Score  : 25 points
       Date   : 2024-02-11 19:03 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | forinti wrote:
       | The irony is that the distribution company in my state has been
       | privatised and the QoS has nosedived. People are looking for
       | backups and by far the fastest and easiest solution is to buy a
       | diesel powered generator (which doesn't have the same
       | emissions/noise requirements as cars).
       | 
       | There is visible growth in solar, but you see it more often in
       | businesses, because the return on investment takes a long time
       | for a house (10-15 years).
        
         | Affric wrote:
         | In Brazil?
         | 
         | In Australia ROI for solar is 3-5 years. Why do you think the
         | discrepancy? Aircon? Grid prices?
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | Brazil solar payback should be closer to 2-5 years.
           | 
           | https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56200
        
             | seiferteric wrote:
             | For roof top solar? Can you give an example of some
             | numbers? Around here in NorCal, would cost ~20k for a
             | system, and would save maybe $2400 a year, so would be more
             | like 8.3 years.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | US residential rooftop is wildly expensive compared to
               | other countries due to soft costs ($3-$4/watt vs $1-2).
               | California's "unique" electric utility and solar policy
               | approach doesn't help.
               | 
               | I put solar on a friend's roof in Sydney Australia (their
               | landlord's specifically, due to a lease to purchase
               | agreement) for under $1/watt.
        
               | dalyons wrote:
               | I have noticed this! But I dont get it. Construction
               | labour in the US is generally much cheaper than in
               | australia. In fact almost everything is cheaper in the
               | US. Why is solar so much more expensive? whats in those
               | "soft costs"?
        
               | joecool1029 wrote:
               | > whats in those "soft costs"?
               | 
               | In short: bureaucracy. Depends on state but electrical
               | things and stuff attached to houses usually requires
               | greasing the local municipality with permits, submitting
               | a plan, and hiring licensed electricians that cost way
               | more than a general contractor. It may even require
               | presenting it for approval to a HOA or town committee
               | (god forbid the house might be historic, then it's
               | another committee)
               | 
               | EDIT: My parents looked into it in NJ awhile back but
               | their land is farm preserved and it's super restrictive
               | on how much they can cover with a 'solar farm'. Also, it
               | requires studies that prove it won't cast shadows or
               | reflect onto neighboring properties. The township is
               | extremely restrictive on what can be built anywhere (for
               | example the center parts of it are mostly a deadzone for
               | cellphones since the towers must only be installed on the
               | border of the township).
        
               | jillesvangurp wrote:
               | Import regulations means Chinese equipment that you buy
               | is a bit more expensive. The domestically produced stuff
               | is not cheaper or better or that widely available.
               | 
               | The rest is just a mix of bureaucracy, regulations,
               | building codes, energy companies frustrating the whole
               | process, etc.
               | 
               | An additional factor is latitude. In Australia places
               | like Sydney and Brisbane, are a lot closer to the equator
               | than most of the US. San Diego is about comparable (well
               | slightly closer) with Melbourne in how close it is to the
               | equator. So, they'd be getting a bit more out of their
               | panels even in the middle of their winter.
               | 
               | I'm in Germany, most of the country is about ten degrees
               | further north than most of the US. People put solar on
               | their roofs here because it works and there are some
               | incentives. So, it's not that big of a factor. But if you
               | add it all up, the US should be getting its solar a lot
               | cheaper than it currently is.
        
               | seiferteric wrote:
               | I had wondered about that... I am actually contemplating
               | installing my own solar from a kit, which costs about
               | half as much.
        
               | andyferris wrote:
               | Off the top of my head, I thought US$20k would get you
               | roof top solar plus a house battery in Australia.
               | 
               | Which might have a longer ROI.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > For roof top solar?
               | 
               | Yes.
               | 
               | > Can you give an example of some numbers?
               | 
               | Yes.
               | 
               | I have a total of 23 solar panels with a maximum output
               | of just over 1 megawatt/month. The system cost around
               | 34,000 BRL which is around 6,850 USD at current rates.
               | Its expected lifetime is 25 years and it broke even in
               | about three and half years. Current energy prices in
               | USD/kWh varies between 0.15 and 0.17. The panels have
               | been operating for about five years now and capacity has
               | been expanded once already. They have generated a total
               | of around 45 megawatts. In 2023 output maxed out in
               | november at 1.072 megawatts and bottomed out in june at
               | 396 kilowatts. The highest output ever recorded was
               | 1.13639 megawatts in january 2021.
               | 
               | We have no batteries. In Brazil there's no way to go 100%
               | off the grid so we decided against it.
        
               | brnt wrote:
               | > I have a total of 23 solar panels with a maximum output
               | of nearly 1 megawatt.
               | 
               | Panels do 400-500Wp these days. Times 23 gives a max of
               | 11500W peak. You are off somewhere, or tell me right now
               | where you got those panels.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | You're right, sorry. That figure is energy output _per
               | month_. Edited the post to make that clear. Added some
               | extra statistics too from the monitoring software 's
               | report.
        
             | fmobus wrote:
             | What's the regulatory situation for selling energy back to
             | the grid? Friend of mine 10+ years ago in Porto Alegre
             | opted for solar for water heating only, because there was
             | no mechanism for net metering.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | > the return on investment takes a long time for a house
         | 
         | I completely covered my home's front rooftop with solar panels
         | and they paid for themselves in about three years time. They're
         | so effective that we have politicians campaigning _against_
         | government incentives for renewable energy. Too many rich
         | people and corporations are benefiting it seems, can 't have
         | that.
         | 
         | This is despite the fact that they don't actually pay us for
         | the energy we generate. They give us "kWh credits" which expire
         | if unused after one year. Were it not for that, I'd have even
         | more solar panels in service.
        
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