[HN Gopher] Ask HN: What are the best articles on managing people?
___________________________________________________________________
Ask HN: What are the best articles on managing people?
I recently found out about
https://blog.sbensu.com/posts/lieutenants/ & was curious what are
your favorite articles on management or generally managing people?
Author : deadcoder0904
Score : 171 points
Date : 2024-02-11 17:53 UTC (5 hours ago)
| jodrellblank wrote:
| 15 years ago, RandsInRepose.com wrote a lot of interesting blog
| posts on management, and then turned them into books:
| https://randsinrepose.com/archives/
| quag wrote:
| The article about types of one on ones has stuck with me:
| https://randsinrepose.com/archives/the-update-the-vent-and-t...
| svilen_dobrev wrote:
| oh dear..
|
| i wish one day i have such a Manager.. before i'm dead anyway
| (~40y making sw.. still some more to go). i am under
| "CTO"-label now but that does not make any difference..
| notjustanymike wrote:
| Not an article, but I do frequently recommend the following:
|
| Multipliers - an excellent book on how to avoid becoming a
| stereotypical bad boss. Chapters are easy to read independently
| and have great summaries at the end.
|
| Crucial Conversations - good for both professional and personal
| conversations. Learn how to have a difficult conversation without
| burning down the relationship.
|
| Finally, look up SOON (acronym) for when someone you manage comes
| to you seeking guidance.
| scrapcode wrote:
| Difficult to find anything meaningful for "SOON" in G. Can you
| elaborate?
| quag wrote:
| SOON is new to me. I think it stands for "Success, Obstacles,
| Options, and Next steps". Which is a decent list of things to
| zoom in on when people are working on things for you.
|
| https://trainingindustry.com/articles/performance-
| management...
| ochronus wrote:
| Shameless plug: https://leadership.garden/
| ochronus wrote:
| https://review.firstround.com/ is great, too (not 100%
| leadership/management)
| squadleader wrote:
| Just a meta-comment - if you're new to all this, it's good to
| know that management != leadership. If you're starting out,
| you'll want to learn both, and you'll need both.
|
| More practically, here's a fun blog where you can ask specific
| questions: https://www.askamanager.org/
| davidg109 wrote:
| ^ THIS. Where I've worked, there has been a severe degradation
| over time of actual leaders, and an increase in managers who
| have no clue how to lead or inspire.
|
| One thing I have oriented myself to doing is being a servant
| leader. As I told one team I led, "I'm your bitch. Tell me
| where your rocks are and I'll move them out of the way so you
| can get your work done." And then I do exactly that. I've had
| to work miracles sometimes but I can usually clear the path.
|
| I detest micro management in every conceivable way, but I do
| believe in accountability and ensuring the work is done on time
| by the team with no surprises. This has worked well for me.
|
| Been some time since I read about this stuff but Five
| Dysfunctions of a Team I recall being descent. Summary article
| here: https://www.runn.io/blog/5-dysfunctions-of-a-team-summary
| fifilura wrote:
| My experience regarding the servant manager is that it is
| really important that you also figure out what is in it for
| you.
|
| There is a big risk that your career stops at that - being a
| servant.
| mft_ wrote:
| The best managers/leaders I've had in this vein are
| sufficiently recognised for their part in the performance
| of their team.
|
| Wouldn't it be a small red flag about an organisation if
| this wasn't the case?
| fifilura wrote:
| Will your next workplace value all the effort you spent
| that way?
|
| Are the servant tasks even what you want to spend your
| time with?
|
| I am not suggesting that the answer to those questions
| has to be "no". But good to think about it.
| mft_ wrote:
| Interesting questions.
|
| > Will your next workplace value all the effort you spent
| that way?
|
| I'd hope so - as it's reasonable to assume that a next
| role for someone already managing/leading would involve
| more management/leadership. So yes,
| skills/achievements/examples in that area should be
| valued.
|
| > Are the servant tasks even what you want to spend your
| time with?
|
| It's probably not for everyone; but if someone doesn't
| want to perform the tasks that (many would say) are
| necessary to be a good manager/leader, maybe they
| shouldn't be in a manager/leader position in the first
| place?
| dasil003 wrote:
| This is a strange comment. Everyone in a corporate
| structure is a servant. How you advance is by demonstrating
| that you are helping solve the problems deemed important by
| your chain of command. Theoretically this should be aligned
| from top to bottom; in practice competing priorities,
| communication overhead, and incompetence in the wrong
| places can greatly distort things. This reality leads a lot
| of folks into learned helplessness, and social climbers
| gaming the chaos to gain power they are not equipped to
| handle.
|
| The mentality "what's in it for me" is toxic and shows one
| is not ready for higher level management in a large org
| where cooperation is necessary to do anything interesting.
| Better questions are "is my team working on the right
| thing?", "does my team have the right skills to deliver on
| that thing?", "what relationships do we need to succeed?",
| and last but definitely not least "is my manager competent
| enough to provide the support I need for my team to be
| successful?". The last question is the key one: you won't
| grow if you are reporting to a muppet.
| fifilura wrote:
| Your answer is reasonable but I don't agree that it is a
| "strange comment" as you say.
|
| Is it not possible to see yourself as having thought too
| much about maximizing your companys success without
| thinking about your own needs?
|
| I wouldnt qualify this as toxic. And they can go
| alongside if you make it clear for yourself and your
| manager.
| dasil003 wrote:
| Thanks for your measured response. You're right that it's
| not inherently toxic to think of yourself. The reason I
| reacted that way is because that mentality (whether
| explicit or not) is what leads to operating in a very
| transactional way or empire-building fashion that works
| against good outcomes in the long-term.
|
| I honestly don't think being too selfless is an adequate
| explanation for career stagnation though. Selfless
| behavior will generally help you get ahead in life and in
| your career, because good relationships matter a lot.
| However you won't get promoted just because you help
| everyone. What if you are just servicing the squeaky
| wheels rather than solving the biggest problem on your
| plate? A good manager will only look to promote you
| because you have demonstrated you are capable of solving
| larger problems. There are other things too: like the
| business actually has the need for a higher level role.
| If that's the case, then your behavior is irrelevant--you
| just need to leave to someplace that _does_ have the
| growth opportunity.
|
| Overall the reason I said your comment was strange is
| because it clearly comes from some personal experience
| you had, but it lacks enough context to be actionable to
| anyone who reads it. I can think of a dozen different
| ways I've seen a "servant leader" mentality succeed or
| fail, but it all depends very much on context. Ultimately
| if you want to succeed you need to understand what game
| is being played and not fallback to abstract platitudes.
| fifilura wrote:
| Yeah maybe management path was not for me, but after a
| while I couldn't shake the feeling of having "santas
| little helper" on my business card. When the people I
| managed were the people that were valued in the
| organization, and having all the job opportunities. (I am
| out of that now after cleaning my CV with a few years of
| IC and managing a smaller team)
|
| But of course YMMV and all that. I am not saying don't, I
| am saying do - think about it first.
| tptacek wrote:
| At the risk of sounding glib, in "startup world" (the
| sector of the tech industry characterized mostly by
| companies between 100-1000 people large) there are two
| career tracks:
|
| (1) The track you get on by demonstrating viability in
| roles of escalating seniority, such as by leaving a Sr.
| Manager job for a Director job.
|
| (2) The track you get on by having an easily observable or
| articulable track record of getting important (or at least
| interesting) things done.
|
| Ruthlessly working "track 1" may rule out "serving" a team
| (and at the same time rationalizing that by avoiding that
| "trap" you're "serving" the broader company mission), but
| that mindset practically rules out progression on "track
| 2".
| jackblemming wrote:
| >As I told one team I led, "I'm your bitch. Tell me where
| your rocks are and I'll move them out of the way so you can
| get your work done."
|
| Great mindset and thoughts, but I hope this isn't what you
| actually said. I'd also like to point out serving someone or
| some thing doesn't make you a bitch.
| tptacek wrote:
| If this is your whole mindset, in what sense are you a
| leader? The person who moves rocks out of the way of the path
| for the army to march on generally isn't the leader; the
| leader is the guy (it's always a guy) telling people which
| rocks to move.
|
| I'm not dunking on you; maybe you aren't a servant-leader,
| but rather just a servant. That's a great way to be: a
| servant of "the mission" (replace with whatever term keeps
| the contents of your stomach down).
| avgcorrection wrote:
| In corporate rhetoric, all management is becoming leadership.
| Turning from the concrete X, Y, and Z of managing to the
| abstract ball of feels that is "leadership".
| voakbasda wrote:
| Not everyone can be effective at both. I learned that I can be
| a great leader, but I do not have the patience required to
| manage people. I have had managers that were terrible leaders.
| Definitely different skills, and you need both to climb the
| ladder into the C-suite.
| trescenzi wrote:
| You definitively don't need either to make it to C-suite. To
| get there you need political skills. To be effective there
| you absolutely need both though.
| tptacek wrote:
| Leadership is a seductive concept, but in the main, leadership
| = management - work. In a healthy engineering culture, a
| management goal should be enabling the maximum number of people
| to exercise their own leadership. Even the newfangled concept
| of "servant leadership" is premised on a separation of agency
| between those who "serve/lead" and those who "are served/led".
|
| Effective management --- do not groan before I finish this
| sentence --- tends to look a lot more like adminship on
| Wikipedia than it does, like, war leadership. It's about
| picking up a mop and a bucket and making the way clear for
| people to do their best work. And, in our field, doing one's
| best work often means _making and communicating big decisions_
| , which is what leadership is.
|
| There's also a distinction between the kind of leadership the
| whole company needs --- hard decisions about where to allocate
| resources and what bets to make --- and the day-to-day
| "leadership" involved in getting things done as a team. I term
| I hear a lot is "vibes based management", which is a
| recognition that somebody (probably not engineering
| management!) is making these kinds of decisions and
| communicating them just well enough for line engineers to make
| good choices.
|
| If you're looking for management advice because you're running
| a whole company, that kind of leadership is in scope! But if
| you're looking to learn how to be a good engineering manager,
| I'm not sure how much "leadership" has to do with doing a good
| job.
| dasil003 wrote:
| > _But if you 're looking to learn how to be a good
| engineering manager, I'm not sure how much "leadership" has
| to do with doing a good job._
|
| Your whole comment is spot on, but I think there's a trap
| here. Yes, an EM should be empowering as many IC leaders as
| possible, but that can't be done if the EM does not recognize
| true leadership. While it's theoretically possible to succeed
| as a manager leveraging others without having your own true
| tech lead chops, the majority of managers like this end up
| either putting too much trust in the wrong ICs or (worse)
| devolve into cover-your-ass "agile" process bullshit.
| Sharlin wrote:
| People in general dislike being managed. Don't do that. _Lead_
| instead.
| tptacek wrote:
| People in general dislike being _lead_. Support them with
| management practices that _allow them to lead_ while offloading
| ancillary burdens.
| avgcorrection wrote:
| Leading in this context is a euphemism for management. That
| faux-egalitarian "could you X" (bonus points for upspeak).[1]
|
| For some reason it grinds my gears when people in _formal_
| positions of authority insist on talking about being a leader
| instead of a boss.
|
| [1] I'm all for pleasantries and being nice even though there
| really is no choice (ask/order). Don't get me wrong. But not to
| the point where either party starts getting delusional about
| what's going on.
| jacurtis wrote:
| Out of curiosity, why are you looking for "articles" as opposed
| to more generally "resources"?
|
| The reason I say this is that articles are usually 800-3,000
| words, with a median around 1,200 words. I'd ask if you can
| really gain much depth or promote deep change in yourself based
| on a bunch of short pieces?
|
| Meanwhile there are numerous private courses, conferences,
| research papers, and books that dive into these topics in much
| more greater depth which is likely to have a more lasting impact
| on your life.
|
| I'd venture a guess that you want articles because they are
| easier and faster to read. They don't require much time or effort
| to go through and you can get a few quick hits of dopamine that
| make you artificially feel like you impacted your career.
| Leadership isn't something you're going to be able to learn with
| a couple listacles and blog posts. It's going to take a lot more
| time and dedication to get good at.
|
| As others have mentioned. Management is easy. Leadership is hard.
| nknealk wrote:
| https://hbr.org/2013/01/the-price-of-incivility
|
| Not explicitly related to management but good advice. I've seen
| too many people put in a position of power and become assholes.
| It destroys morale.
|
| Edit: a non paywalled link
| https://www.qualitymanagementinstitute.com/images/hrsolution...
| maCDzP wrote:
| I really like the work of Gervaise Bushe and his book "clear
| leadership".
|
| He makes the argument that by putting a lot of effort in
| understanding your own and other peoples viewpoint you are able
| to build good relationship.
|
| But what I believe sets his work apart from others is his
| psychological view on why it's sometimes hard for people to
| listen to each other. He dissects which anxieties drives our
| behavior to listen or not to listen etc. without coming of as a
| know it all.
|
| Probably not for everyone because of the psych framing. But if
| that speaks to you, give it a try.
|
| Overall: five out of five toasters.
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| I remember some similar content in Crucial Conversations,
| although it is a while since I read it.
| bellwether wrote:
| I got a lot of value from this post related to growth for ICs:
| https://www.honeycomb.io/blog/engineering-levels-at-honeycom...
| e12e wrote:
| I think Peopleware deserves a mention:
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopleware:_Productive_Proje...
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Peopleware is in fact _the_ best I 've ever read. The problems
| of an organization are very rarely technical, and are almost
| certainly the people.
| eptcyka wrote:
| So you're saying they're always people who lack certainty?
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Oh you - fixed.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| Peopleware doesn't get the love it deserves these days. I
| mentioned tom demarco to my vp of eng at former gig and they
| clearly didn't know wtf i was talking about...
|
| When i was picking up some team lead responsibilities for the
| first time, it was the first book suggested by my then mentor
| who was an experienced manager.
| JamesLeonis wrote:
| Simply to add to this, I found _Peopleware_ useful even in an
| IC position. It helped me navigate the intrigue that arises
| in an office, and understand the pressures experienced by my
| managers.
| AJ007 wrote:
| I had a lot of trouble with this in my early 20s. Everything I
| read was bullshit.
|
| There are two important distinctions: how you manage mediocre
| workers you didn't hire, and how you manage good workers. The
| former will require 98% of the effort of the latter, and will
| give you a fraction of the same results. If you are running a
| tech company, the former will probably prevent you from ever
| running things well or smoothly. The former can include people
| who don't show up for work, but it can also include high IQ
| people who are constantly screwing around and coming up with
| elaborate excuses. The best way to manage those people is to fire
| them as fast as possible.
|
| For managing the former, let them get their work done and don't
| do stupid shit that impairs it. If you can't figure that out
| yourself, you shouldn't be a manager.
|
| There, I just saved you 10,000 hours of reading.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| >The best way to manage those people is to fire them as fast as
| possible.
|
| Depending on the country you're in, this can be really
| difficult legally.
| danielovichdk wrote:
| Solid advice!
|
| Fire these people first since they have a tendency to be
| manipulate the truth: "high IQ people who are constantly
| screwing around and coming up with elaborate excuses".
| svilen_dobrev wrote:
| > For managing the former, let them get their work done
|
| did you mean "latter" here ?
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| Step 0: come to grips with the existence of workers outside
| those two groups, and the possibility of workers who fit in
| different groups in different contexts or at different times in
| their life.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| > [..] The former can include people who don't show up for
| work, but it can also include high IQ people who are constantly
| screwing around and coming up with elaborate excuses. The best
| way to manage those people is to fire them as fast as possible.
|
| > For managing the former, let them get their work done and
| don't do stupid shit that impairs it. If you can't figure that
| out yourself, you shouldn't be a manager.
|
| I have a manager who also can't write two sentences without
| mixing up "former" and "later", "production" and "dev" and
| "staging" and "testing", "monday" and "thursday" and
| "wednesday". Doesn't help he's also an insufferable know-it-all
| taking everyone for an idiot (even though that's true more
| often than not but you get the point).
| stewsnooze wrote:
| Joel Spolsky https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/08/07/three-
| management-m...
| Jun8 wrote:
| As always, Spolsky makes blunt but good points. At the end he
| mentions additional approaches: "You will certainly find other
| methods of management in the wild (there's the exotic "Devil
| Wears Prada" Method, the Jihad Method, the Charismatic Cult
| Method, and the Lurch From One Method To Another Method)."
| Others are relatively obvious but I'm curious about the "Jihad
| Method."
| mark_undoio wrote:
| I'm a big fan of Turn the Ship Around! By L. David Marquet as fun
| read that shows what some good leadership can do by pushing
| responsibility to the lowest appropriate level in an
| organisation.
|
| https://davidmarquet.com/turn-the-ship-around-book/
|
| The anecdotes are good fun. I've not used it specifically as a
| model but I like the general principles it represents.
| jyunwai wrote:
| The most useful lesson from this book for me--because I found
| myself using this several times this week--is to communicate by
| saying "I intend to" to quickly explain the "why" behind what
| you are trying to do, or the rationale for a set of
| instructions you are giving to another person.
|
| This helps people respond with flexibility, as it gives them a
| better understanding of when to deviate from the exact set of
| instructions you give them (such as if assumptions turn out to
| be wrong, or conditions change), and what parts of a request
| are necessary to follow exactly.
|
| Though I remembered using this wording often, I actually forgot
| that I learned about the principle from this book until I read
| this comment, but the idea itself has stuck with me.
|
| There is also a 45-minute "Talks at Google" video by the
| author, which looks like a good overview for his main ideas:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzJL8zX3EVk
| szundi wrote:
| Peopleware, Five disfunctions of a team
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| Five disfunction of the team was the dumbest shit filled
| crockery ever to be put into print. Please save your self the
| loss of braincells and skip this book.
| hartator wrote:
| Why? I almost bought it.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| Honestly? High Output Management. Written by Intel's CEO during
| its climb, it seems to have the focuses in the right areas even
| today for the more technical among us
| Jun8 wrote:
| I cannot recommend "Crucial Conversations" enough
| (https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Third-
| Talking-S...), excellent source for everyone but esp. for
| managers. It will teach you how to broach difficult topics with
| reports and how to deal with difficult personalities, which
| inevitably you will encounter.
| aborsy wrote:
| A related question, what are the best books or classes on
| managing people?
| hrpnk wrote:
| - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45303387-an-elegant-
| puzz... - An Elegant Puzzle: Systems of Engineering Management
| by Will Larson - excellent intro into the job of an Engineering
| Manager
|
| - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23848190-extreme-
| ownersh... - Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink, Leif Babin -
| showcase of leadership techniques (with references from US
| Navy)
|
| - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18077903-creativity-inc -
| Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull, Amy Wallace - explains how to
| create a working environment that drives creativity and
| nobodysomebody wrote:
| By Adm. Rickover https://govleaders.org/rickover.htm
| https://www.powermag.com/blog/hyman-rickover-on-nuclear-desi...
| Books The Never-Ending Challenge of Engineering: Admiral H.G.
| Rickover in His Own Words The Rickover Effect: How One Man Made a
| Difference
| stavros wrote:
| Another related question, what are some good resources on
| leadership?
| hrpnk wrote:
| https://github.com/LappleApple/awesome-leading-and-managing -
| on leading people and managing (mostly) tech teams
| stavros wrote:
| Thanks!
| tonydev wrote:
| High output management (Andy Grove) is a classic that I've found
| a lot of value from over the years -- written in the 80s and
| shows its age here and there, but otherwise good for the
| fundamentals: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-
| Andrew-Grove/d...
| RyanHamilton wrote:
| +1 best book I have ever read on the topic. A short concise
| book with a number of good ideas that anyone working in a
| large/medium or perhaps even a small company would benefit
| from. So good, that I re-read parts of it twice already. My
| full review and notes are here:
| https://ryan-h.com/2019/10/21/andrew-grove-high-output-manag...
| jlewis_st wrote:
| The Set-Up-To-Fail Syndrome (https://hbr.org/1998/03/the-set-up-
| to-fail-syndrome) is a great resource for how to handle
| situations where you feel an employee is underperforming.
| computerdork wrote:
| Had never heard of this. This is a great article on how to be a
| poor manager.
| jyunwai wrote:
| I second this article, having applied the ideas (and shared the
| article) with people I've worked with in the past. The ideas
| are still relevant today, despite the original publication in
| 1998.
|
| ---
|
| The drawn comic in the article gives a good overview, and the
| following are a few highlights:
|
| "Before the set-up-to-fail syndrome begins, the boss and the
| subordinate are typically engaged in a positive, or at least
| neutral, relationship. The triggering event in the set-up-to-
| fail syndrome is often minor or surreptitious. The subordinate
| may miss a deadline, lose a client, or submit a subpar report.
| [...]
|
| "Reacting to the triggering event, the boss increases his
| supervision of the subordinate, gives more specific
| instructions, and wrangles longer over courses of action. The
| subordinate responds by beginning to suspect a lack of
| confidence and senses he's not part of the boss's in-group
| anymore. He starts to withdraw emotionally from the boss and
| from work. He may also fight to change the boss's image of him,
| reaching too high or running too fast to be effective.
|
| "The boss interprets this problem-hoarding, overreaching, or
| tentativeness as signs that the subordinate has poor judgment
| and weak capabilities. If the subordinate does perform well,
| the boss does not acknowledge it or considers it a lucky "one
| off." [...] The subordinate feels boxed in and
| underappreciated. He increasingly withdraws from his boss and
| from work. He may even resort to ignoring instructions, openly
| disputing the boss, and occasionally lashing out because of
| feelings of rejection.
|
| "In general, he performs his job mechanically and devotes more
| energy to self-protection. [...] The boss feels increasingly
| frustrated and is now convinced that the subordinate cannot
| perform without intense oversight. He makes this known by his
| words and deeds, further undermining the subordinate's
| confidence and prompting inaction."
|
| ---
|
| My own summary follows. The idea is that a good relationship
| between a manager and a junior can unnecessarily fall off the
| rails, beginning with the manager perceiving that the junior
| has made a small or moderate mistake.
|
| Instead of letting it go, the manager begins a corrective
| action with more micro-management (such as requests for more
| check-ins or progress reports). This can result in the junior
| becoming disengaged with the work, or alternatively trying to
| take on too many responsibilities to regain the manager's
| trust. In any case, the manager tries to correct this by
| increasing micro-management (which is the opposite of what the
| junior wants), which worsens the relationship.
|
| To solve this, the article recommends an open discussion
| between the manager and junior, with specific, concrete goals
| for restoring trust in the relationship (as well as attempting
| to prevent this in the first place). The article also notes
| that an attempted solution entirely on the junior's side--where
| the junior over-achieves for a while to attempt to rebuild
| trust--is often ineffective, as a manager may not even notice
| these efforts due to a bias to already label the person as
| unreliable.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| Thanks for the link, it reads like some of those are dynamics
| are also part of the Karpman Drama Triangle[0] which is another
| common failure mode.
|
| [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle
| carterschonwald wrote:
| Omg I've seen this actually done to a person. It's terrible
| teddyh wrote:
| <https://archive.is/FThP1>
| shaunxcode wrote:
| https://monoskop.org/images/e/e3/Beer_Stafford_Designing_Fre...
| Even has diagrams!
| cicce19 wrote:
| Scaling people by Claire Hughes Johnson is a recent one that is
| quite good.
| CharleFKane wrote:
| Douglas Southall Freeman, _On Leadership_ , especially the
| lecture he called "Old Number One".
|
| I can't find it online now, though the whole book is on
| archive.org. Here's a good summary:
|
| https://uncomn.com/leadership-part-1-lessons-from-douglas-so...
| neilv wrote:
| From the summary of "Old Number One", these are maybe 3 of the
| top 6 things that I think I learned by osmosis from managers
| early in my career. The other big ones were
| humility/thoughtfulness, honesty, and grace under pressure.
| (Perhaps the original lecture addresses those, as well.)
|
| I don't know the research on this (and would be hesitant to
| believe anything out of the business press about management). I
| only have anecdata, intuition, and speculation.
|
| I'm not perfect at any of these, but they seem to be a really
| good guide.
|
| Note that not everyone has picked up the same influences in the
| past, so they might not have seen all of these, and they
| might've learned a lot of other ideas.
|
| For examples of other influences (not just managers, but execs
| including startups): Many seem to prioritize projecting
| confidence, over everything else. Others seem wired to
| persuade, to doing what they want or to having a positive
| impression of them, at all costs. Others seem to think they
| must assert authority, first and foremost.
|
| The difference in past experiences, and the reality of industry
| conventions in practice, means you sometimes have to explain
| something that seems obvious to you.
|
| One time I failed to communicate well, I was characterizing to
| a startup CEO how I'd run a forthcoming engineering team, and I
| added something at the end, "and they'll be my people". I
| intended it as shorthand for a style of conscientiously looking
| after their needs, and fostering a culture of loyalty to the
| team/project/company. Of course that was ambiguous, especially
| in a business context, where aggressive self-interest is the
| most likely explanation for any behavior. Later, I realized
| that he was looking to be the leader of more of a lifestyle
| company, with the entire company _his_ people in a somewhat
| different sense (which was an influence he 'd seen in his own
| career). So I'd maybe sounded like I was saying I'd silo off a
| fiefdom of loyalists to me rather than to him or the company,
| shape part of the company in my image, or otherwise get between
| him and the people.
| jasode wrote:
| Not an article but this oft-linked HN comment from Slava
| Akhmechet is very accurate about how subordinates' motives can
| sabotage your intended goals and objectives :
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18003253
| johnfn wrote:
| Haha, wow, I remember reading this when it was written. I do
| think it's probably a bit too cynical though, probably colored
| by the author's own world-view and personal experience. I do
| think that some companies are just filled with BS; don't get me
| wrong. But I think that there are also a subset of companies
| who are filled with people trying their best, but who are
| making mistakes and/or being incompetent in a way that looks
| like the active sabotage that OP is describing. I think when
| there's a power imbalance it's easy to ascribe every non-
| perfect action by people above you to be some act of self-
| interest, when in reality it isn't always true that everyone
| has a secret ulterior motive.
|
| > From the founders's perspective the org is basically an
| overactive genie. It will do what you say, but not what you
| mean. Want to increase sales in two quarters? No problem, sales
| increased. Oh, and we also subtly destroyed our customers's
| trust. Once the stakes are high, founders basically have to
| treat their org as an adversarial agent. You might think -- but
| a good founder will notice! Doesn't matter how good you are --
| you've selected world class politicians that are good at
| getting past your exact psychological makeup.
|
| This is a particularly good quote!
| dilyevsky wrote:
| > I do think it's probably a bit too cynical though, probably
| colored by the author's own world-view and personal
| experience.
|
| That's the sad part. Once you personally encounter this, as i
| also have, though not as a founder, you cant help but notice
| it everywhere and question everything. Like the irl The Thing
| akkartik wrote:
| Ha, this is actually a really good case in favor of _not_
| hiring the best people. Any metric you have for estimating
| "best" will be gameable.
|
| Now I'm reminded of
| https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2019/04/15/mediocratopia-4.
| caminante wrote:
| Overly cynical indeed and incomplete. It's profound for
| someone 5 years out of college.
|
| I know the intent, but I found this typo funny
|
| _> Once the steaks are high_
|
| There are much better "this is how things ACTUALLY work"
| takes like Ribbonfarm's "Gervais Principal" [0] to feast on.
|
| [0] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-
| principle-...
| atlasunshrugged wrote:
| It isn't directly about managing people 1:1, but probably the one
| that most helped inform my views on people management and
| organizational culture was the original Netflix culture deck
|
| https://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664
| tmoravec wrote:
| I'm reading some articles on managing people all the time (mostly
| from Software Lead Weekly newsletter). And recently, I've opened
| Armstrong's Handbook of Human Resource Management Practice to
| read a few chapters on a problem I'm facing at work.
|
| And WOW a proper book on the topic is SOOO much better than any
| random article that I find, be it from SWLW, HN, Reddit, or any
| other source. Articles and posts are easy to like when I already
| agree with their premise. But the depth of a proper book, from a
| real source of authority and not some random person online,
| looking at the problem from multiple points, that's so much more
| insightful and useful.
|
| So instead of hunting for best articles, I would 100% recommend
| getting Armstrong, or some textbook. Or at least High Output
| Management as other comment suggested, or some other well known
| and well regarded book. But Armstrong in particular can give you
| very deep understanding of most aspects of people management,
| plus it's up-to-date.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| Online articles will be insufficient. Instead, find the right
| people.
|
| First understand that management is administrative:
| accountability, task completion, retention, hiring. Leadership is
| direction, purpose, and motivation. The concepts are not related.
| Leaders own things and take risks. Managers balance spreadsheets.
| If you are an extreme introvert or find it difficult to be
| assertive you have a tremendous amount of catching up to do.
|
| Secondly, your best source of knowledge is experience from people
| with proven delivery. Find them and ask them tough questions.
| Compare yourself to your managerial peers to determine if you are
| developing appropriately or if you are sucking. Do not look to
| your peers or the public for leadership guidance as they will set
| you up to fail, especially in software. If you really want to
| become a solid manager look for harsh criticism from the leaders
| you work for AND a path forward.
|
| Finally, pay close attention to the measures and metrics of your
| staff. Such measures will include staff retention, speed of
| delivery, product performance, and so forth.
|
| To help jump start your journey here is leadership according to
| the US Army: ADP 6-22,
| https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?P...
| cj wrote:
| > If you are an extreme introvert or find it difficult to be
| assertive you have a tremendous amount of catching up to do
|
| This can be a good thing. "Natural born leaders" by personality
| type tend to be overconfident and ignore their blindspots
| because they've never had a reason to challenge their ability.
|
| Introverts, for example, are acutely aware that leading and
| managing doesn't come naturally and is a skill that is
| continually learned and built upon. In the long-run, introverts
| can be excellent leaders because they're aware of what it takes
| to be a good leader and they put an emphasis on professional
| development to get where they need to be.
|
| Not to say extroverts are worse leaders. Both introverts and
| extroverts can be terrible leaders/managers. The best
| leaders/managers are the ones who have the self-awareness to
| reflect on themselves, identify their week points, and
| constantly improve.
| computerdork wrote:
| Agree with this. Maybe "extreme introverts" will have a tough
| time as leaders, but moderate ones probably have a lot of
| advantages. On top of the ones you listed, they tend to be
| better listeners, reading both people and situations better,
| having higher empathy (https://thrivedowntown.com/what-is-an-
| introvert-personality/...)
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| > Online articles will be insufficient. Instead, find the right
| people.
|
| Well, yeah. But if it were *that* easy then everyone would do
| it. "It's just..." find the right people. Anyone one with
| experience knows "it's just" is a red flag for "I lack the
| depth and understanding of the domain so I'll dismiss it as if
| it's child's play."
|
| This leads to one of my never-fails heuristics: Making it look
| easy is very very hard.
| mostlysimple wrote:
| Ive always been a firm believer in situational leadership. It
| teaches that there isn't just one leadership style for every
| person, their skillsets and their motivation.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_leadership_theory
| thinkingkong wrote:
| The Mochary Method is a google doc that has been making its
| rounds for awhile. It's not the most visually stunning set of
| guidelines to read but the content is excellent.
|
| https://docs.google.com/document/d/18FiJbYn53fTtPmphfdCKT2TM...
| orionsbelt wrote:
| Awful advice in the legal section. I hope the other areas are
| better.
| codemac wrote:
| The Mochary Method I found is much better for folks managing
| other managers. If you manage individual contributors with a
| lot of these ideas (e.g. meetings start on time), you'll
| definitely have a hard time.
|
| His writing vs talking stuff though is truly great, and I
| changed how I run many meetings through it.
| iFire wrote:
| I enjoy the readings from https://managinghumans.com/ but my
| talents are with code and not management so evaluation of the
| advice is difficult.
| blatherard wrote:
| "Managing in Mayberry: an Examination of Three Distinct
| Leadership Styles" by Don Gray and Dan Starr.
|
| https://www.donaldegray.com/managing-in-mayberry-an-examinat...
| aag wrote:
| Bizarrely, I found the book Corps Business, by Freedman, to be
| useful. It's about how the US Marine Corps thinks about
| leadership. No, he doesn't tell you to shout at people. But he
| does show how they lead in more difficult circumstances than most
| of us will ever encounter, and how they help people from wildly
| different backgrounds work together.
|
| Speaking of learning from people with completely different
| perspectives, if you want to learn about public speaking, read Do
| You Talk Funny?, by Nihill. The thesis is that good standup
| comedians are the best public speakers, and that we can learn
| their techniques. Much of what they do well has nothing to do
| with being funny.
| smcin wrote:
| > how the US Marine Corps thinks about leadership.
|
| Can you give specifics? Does it primarily apply to people in
| heavily authoritarian-type management cultures? I don't expect
| that persuasion and gradually building consensus are big
| themes.
|
| > how they help people from wildly different backgrounds work
| together.
|
| Specifics please?
|
| > Do You Talk Funny?, by Nihill. The thesis is that good
| standup comedians are the best public speakers, and that we can
| learn their techniques.
|
| Nihill is a bad standup comedian who sort-of pivoted/reinvented
| himself as some corporate speaker. So, he would say something
| like that; doesn't make it authoritative. (I almost dragged my
| friends to one of his gigs once until I checked out his
| videos.) And it depends on what type of "public speaker" he
| means; John F Kennedy would probably have been terrible at
| corporate comedy gigs.
| mrj wrote:
| > Can you give specifics? Does it primarily apply to people
| in heavily authoritarian-type management cultures? I don't
| expect that persuasion and gradually building consensus are
| big themes.
|
| The Marines think about leadership very differently than
| that. Sure, parts are authoritarian, but most people are
| surprised to learn that training to be an independent thinker
| starts in boot camp. They don't even tell you how to "swab
| the deck," you are provided the tools and given the direction
| that the floor has to be spotless. Regular inspections
| provide continual feedback, and out of that recruits
| routinely develop their own procedures and novel techniques
| for mission success. (Did you know newspaper is extremely
| effective at finish polishing windows?)
|
| Leadership is pushed hard at every level. If two Marines are
| on a job/mission/taking out the trash, even if they are the
| same rank, the one with more time is expected to take
| responsibility for the other. It's not bossing around
| authoritarian style, it's as real as that other Marine's life
| is your number one priority. Leaders are expected to support
| mission success, not drive it. You lay out the parameters of
| what success means, and the Marines your charge should have
| the tools and support necessary to accomplish that task.
|
| In the programming world, it means that I set out a goal
| post, where I want the team to get to. But then I make sure
| they have the time to do it (I often take distracting support
| issues or annoying bugs so the team is not hampered), and the
| tools needed to get there. If the team does not, I have
| failed.
|
| Marine leadership doesn't do IC work, which is the major
| thing I could improve. But then, Marines have a whole lot
| more people than I do. :)
| jyunwai wrote:
| I can't speak to how the ideas are implemented in practice
| within the US Marine Corps, but a few specifics are given in
| "Marine Corps Doctrinal Publications 1--Warfighting," which
| is likely a similar document that I've found to be helpful
| [1].
|
| The following excerpt encourages respectful debate, instead
| of blindly going along with a leader's plans:
|
| "Relations among all leaders--from corporal to general--
| should be based on honesty and frankness regardless of
| disparity between grades. Until a commander has reached and
| stated a decision, subordinates should consider it their duty
| to provide honest, professional opinions even though these
| may be in disagreement with the senior's opinions.
|
| "However, once the decision has been reached, juniors then
| must support it as if it were their own. Seniors must
| encourage candor among subordinates and must not hide behind
| their grade insignia. Ready compliance for the purpose of
| personal advancement--the behavior of "yes-men"--will not be
| tolerated.""
|
| ---
|
| The idea of erring toward respectful disagreement when
| warranted with leaders, instead of being a yes-man, has
| helped me greatly with building trust in teams I've worked
| with in the past.
|
| However, I don't believe that it's always the best approach
| that "juniors then must support [decisions they disagree
| with] as if it were their own." I get that you can seem less
| confident by saying "{My manager} wants us to take this
| approach," instead of saying "We're taking this approach."
|
| But for decisions that you personally disagree with, the best
| approach would include an acknowledgement of the downsides.
| Phrasing might be: "We're doing this because of XYZ reasons
| from the leadership, while acknowledging the downsides ABC."
|
| I believe that this phrase is balanced: it avoids directly
| saying that you disagree with the decision (which can lead to
| people implementing the decision poorly, possibly making it
| doomed even if it turns out to be the correct one), while
| also acknowledging potential downsides (because the juniors
| are likely to see them too). An expression as if the decision
| were truly your own might mean an enthusiastic delivery
| without acknowledging the downsides, which reduces your own
| credibility with your direct team.
|
| ---
|
| In any case, I believe that reading about the approach--even
| if one doesn't agree with every idea--is a worthwhile
| exercise, as I've found that much of the principles remain
| relevant across vastly different organizational environments.
|
| [1] (1997) https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCD
| P%201%20Wa...
| smcin wrote:
| Sounds like good training for the average Marine, but it
| doesn't apply to the higher-level scandals:
|
| * the 20 years of coverup and inaction about prosecuting
| 1Lt Duncan D. Hunter for 2004 Iraq friendly-fire deaths of
| other Marines and Iraqis? He eventually got prosecuted much
| faster for congressional finance abuse.
|
| "Marine friendly-fire deaths involving Duncan Hunter were
| kept hidden. His congressman dad denies interfering." https
| ://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/military/story/202...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_D._Hunter#Military_ser
| v...
|
| * the pattern of fatal accidents involving the Boeing V-22
| Osprey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Ospr
| ey#Accide...
|
| You made interesting comments about how to frame the
| narrative when people disagree-and-commit.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| Its not an article but here are some books:
|
| Strengths finder 2.0 Rework Deep work Rick Rubins book Start with
| why
| ronald_raygun wrote:
| I think these blog series is illuminating for most companies
|
| https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...
| timeagain wrote:
| No joke hese articles were the reason I started going to
| therapy. I think before reading them I didn't consider
| workplace issues to be a part of my "real life". In some sense
| I was aware of work life balance but I didn't fully appreciate
| that they are balanced on a single fulcrum (i.e., "me"!)
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| https://hbr.org/2023/02/what-is-psychological-safety
|
| https://www.slideshare.net/dberkholz/assholes-are-killing-yo...
| (video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE_SpIdIGK4)
| campallison wrote:
| "You manage things, you lead people. We went overboard on
| management and forgot about leadership." [0, 1] - Rear Admiral
| Grace Hopper, USN
|
| 0: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper 1:
| https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/tap/Files/hopper-wit.html
| timeagain wrote:
| This one is a little dramatic, but in the article she provides a
| devastating description of what it means to be a bad manager (or
| partner).
|
| https://issendai.com/psychology/sick-systems.html
| aemre wrote:
| There is a big list of resources related to engineering
| management which might be relevant:
| https://github.com/ryanburgess/engineer-manager
| hackitup7 wrote:
| Self plug but a friend and I write about management/leadership
| (among other topics) here https://staysaasy.com/
| simonw wrote:
| I love management advice from somewhat unconventional sources.
|
| My favourite piece of reading here is The Eleven Laws of
| Showrunning by Javier Grillo-Marxuach:
| http://okbjgm.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/5/0/31506003/11_laws_of...
|
| It's about how to be the showrunner on a TV show, but is full of
| advice that works really well for managing people in software
| engineering environments as well (if you squint at it the right
| way).
| JohnCClarke wrote:
| As a new manager I found the Chester Nimitz quote: "When you're
| in command, command."
|
| I.e. it's now your job to lead. Do it, and take responsibility
| for doing it.
|
| Also:
|
| The Manager's Path by Camille Fournier Released March 2017
| Publisher(s): O'Reilly Media, Inc. ISBN: 9781491973899
| nemothekid wrote:
| Really recommend The Manager's Path by Camille Fournier
|
| I find it's really more a practical guide, less so a "recipe of
| success" that other self-help tend to be.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Grow...
| Nostromos wrote:
| I used to tell all of my new lead or new manager reports to start
| with Rands. I even offered to buy them a set of my favorite books
| - a couple rands, High Output management, manager's path, etc.
|
| There are some fantastic other suggestions in comments though,
| and it looks like all my suggestions already accounted for.
| npteljes wrote:
| By "Rands" and "couple rands", do you mean books from here?
|
| https://randsinrepose.com/books/
| hartator wrote:
| I like the One Minute Manager.
| tmpz22 wrote:
| Go to your nearest retirement home. Sit down and strike up a
| conversation with someone there. Genuinely listen to them and
| show interest in what they have to say. When you leave reflect on
| the vast loneliness of society and how one person can impact
| another with even the smallest of gestures.
|
| Thats the most succinct advice I have on being a better manager.
| Not a self-indulgent medium article.
| underlipton wrote:
| https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_bias_of_professionalism_...
| is an interesting one to ponder, if you can avoid being triggered
| by the nomenclature. It speaks specifically to white supremacy in
| the workplace, but can be broadly applied to other biases which
| might affect one's ability to manage a team successfully. Even
| more broadly, it suggests a framework for analyzing one's
| response to aspects of a coworker's behavior or presentation that
| might not be directly applicable to their performance. For
| example, do you think Hypothetical Ted is dressed in an
| unacceptably unprofessional manner because he actually is, or are
| you just unable to consider someone who's overweight anything but
| slovenly? (Per the word of several large and highly-competent
| friends, people like that are out there.)
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