[HN Gopher] Fourays: A Tribute to the AY-3-8910
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       Fourays: A Tribute to the AY-3-8910
        
       Sharing the introductory post for a chip-tune synthesizer I wish to
       build.
        
       Author : wdfx
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2024-02-10 21:24 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (doug.lon.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (doug.lon.dev)
        
       | exmadscientist wrote:
       | FYI, that is _NOT_ what genuine Microchip DIP markings look like.
       | Compare, for example, https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Analog-
       | To-Digital-Conver... .
       | 
       | Also there is zero chance that some of them have bottom-marked
       | lot codes and some don't, given the same top date/facility code.
       | Dead zero. And the cavity IDs on the DIP molds should be the same
       | style, not randomly mismatched.... I'll stop here, but this is
       | classic gray market remarking stuff. These are random old chips
       | that have been relabelled.
       | 
       | They may well still be AY-3-8910s in there -- the gray market is
       | _very_ creative -- and may well be usable for you, but be
       | cautious. If they look like they 're misbehaving, the chances are
       | much higher than usual that it's not your fault.
        
         | wdfx wrote:
         | Yeah it's strange, they've clearly been relabeled and maybe
         | only the top two I tested are real. Even if that is true I
         | still have a couple of new toys to play with. I'll test the
         | rest tomorrow.
        
         | polpo wrote:
         | I really don't understand why chip resellers re-mark chips like
         | this. It's always obvious and it gives me the idea that they
         | have something to hide. I've paid more for obviously used chips
         | that I can tell are genuine than "new"/"refurbished" examples
         | like the ones in this article.
         | 
         | I love the AY-3-8910 and I've bought chips that were remarked
         | in this fashion, fortunately they all worked ok and sound like
         | the real deal.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | There were such chips sold under the Microchip brand. I may
           | still have one somewhere in a box.
        
         | Eduard wrote:
         | can you explain what "cavity IDs on the DIP molds" means?
        
           | exmadscientist wrote:
           | Things that are mass-produced in very high volumes by
           | injection molding are never molded just one at a time: the
           | molds have multiple cavities to make many parts at a time in
           | a single molding shot. Very often, each cavity will have a
           | marking to identify it: sometimes just a number, sometimes
           | alphanumeric, sometimes dots. So you can tell that if
           | everything coming out of cavity B12 is having quality
           | problems, you probably need to inspect that cavity.
           | 
           | Now take a look at the picture in the article of the
           | undersides of the DIP-40 parts. There are two circles, which
           | are either ejector pin locations or just things that look
           | like them. (Ejector pins are the things that kick finished
           | parts out of the mold once they're done.) Inside a few of
           | those circles you find those cavity markings. I'm not sure
           | exactly why the ejector pins and cavity markings (appear to?)
           | coincide, but it's pretty common out there in the wild. You'd
           | need someone who's more of a mold specialist and less of an
           | EE to answer that one.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | I've looked at Lego bricks more than I care for and I've
             | noticed similar mismatches over the many years that a
             | particular brick was produced, but they were all still
             | original Lego. It could simply be that at some point a
             | completely new mold was made and it has its markings in a
             | different spot.
             | 
             | There are also so called modular molds with interchangeable
             | inserts.
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | What a fantastic project, I hope you get it all to work and it is
       | definitely inspirational material.
        
         | wdfx wrote:
         | Thank you. I definitely intend to get this together, there's a
         | lot of satisfaction to be had using a device you designed and
         | built yourself.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Any YouTube videos of it making audio?
        
             | wdfx wrote:
             | I'm not quite at that stage, perhaps in the next couple of
             | weeks and for the next article.
        
       | nonrandomstring wrote:
       | Amazing work. One random thought; Would giving each AY its own
       | clock make stack/unison much richer?
        
         | wdfx wrote:
         | That hadn't really occurred to me actually. I'll keep it in
         | mind as I start mixing multiple chips together.
        
           | wdfx wrote:
           | I am limited in the current design for clock sources but I
           | intend to implement pitchbend so it'll be possible to detune
           | two voices that would otherwise be sounding in unison.
        
       | Dwedit wrote:
       | I think the AY sound chip is overrated, nothing but pure 50%
       | square waves. You move up to the next step, and you get the NES
       | sound chip, with 12.5% and 25% duty cycles. Then you move up
       | another step, and you have the Turbo Grafx sound chip, with short
       | custom waveforms.
        
         | karmakaze wrote:
         | Looking at this list of sound chips[0] is an interesting tour
         | through past encounters with computer and video-game systems.
         | Even today music synthesizers are still trying to come up with
         | new techniques for generation and filtering/modification.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sound_chips
        
         | flohofwoe wrote:
         | OTH it's impressive what you can do with multiple AYs when they
         | have a dedicated CPU to drive them. For instance the Bomb Jack
         | arcade machine has a separate sound board with 3x AY and a 3
         | MHz Z80 CPU and it sounds pretty nice:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCQ_iFsFQNA
        
           | Flow wrote:
           | Here's Jochen Hippel's(Mad Max in the Atari ST demoscene) use
           | of the AY's on the Guryss hardware(x3 AY). It's a quite
           | lovely tune. They use timers to make "buzzers" and "SID-
           | sound".
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5TxsZNJpBA
        
           | Dwedit wrote:
           | Multiple AYs is a different story.
           | 
           | You can approximate 12.5% and 25% duty cycle square waves by
           | playing multiple tones at different octaves and a different
           | volume level.
        
         | wdfx wrote:
         | For sure the 50% square wave is a limitation, but sometimes
         | such limitations feed creativity. That's also why I intend to
         | couple the oscillators to filters, so there's another dimension
         | to play with.
        
       | qiqitori wrote:
       | The ZX Spectrum has this sound chip (or almost, for the pedants)
       | and there's a lot of interesting music composed for it. Mostly
       | from Eastern Europe apparently? Here's a good selection:
       | https://zxart.ee/eng/music/top-100/
       | 
       | (I had a bunch of time last year and learned a lot about some
       | retro sound chips, including this one, and while at it converted
       | two tunes I liked to MSX ROMs, as I have an MSX and the sound
       | chip is the same: https://blog.qiqitori.com/2023/05/playing-psg-
       | tunes-or-even-...)
        
         | beagle3 wrote:
         | This was the 128K spectrum. The original ones (16K and 48K) had
         | a 1-bit CPU driven speaker, worse than the PC's original
         | speaker (which could do background square waves thanks to a
         | programmable timer).
         | 
         | Even the 48K had interesting music, when programmers figured
         | out how to do pwm with up to 5 channels. But not a lot of it.
        
       | seu wrote:
       | I love how well everything is explained and how clear he is
       | regarding every step.
        
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