[HN Gopher] Getting rid of bed bugs: trickier than ever
___________________________________________________________________
Getting rid of bed bugs: trickier than ever
Author : fortran77
Score : 82 points
Date : 2024-02-10 14:33 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (knowablemagazine.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (knowablemagazine.org)
| bruce343434 wrote:
| Personally I've had great difficulty getting rid of Silverfishes.
| Despite plugging all crevices with diatomaceous sand, making sure
| indoor temperature does not exceed 18degC, removing any specimen
| on sight, I still encounter one every now and then just chilling
| on the wall or floor. They've eaten my underfloor isolation (the
| floor sags at those spots now), but other than that they're
| harmless - I can't imagine the horror if they snuck into my bed
| and bit me in my sleep. I would seriously consider throwing
| everything away and starting anew.
| generic92034 wrote:
| I believe humans are not part of their diet. ;)
|
| But they can process cellulose, starch and even mold, can
| survive months without any food, so it is next to impossible to
| starve them. Low room temperature and low humidity might help a
| bit.
| andrewl wrote:
| bruce343434 isn't saying he's worried the silverfish will
| sneak into his bed and bite him in his sleep. He's saying it
| would be horrifying to live with insects as stealthy and
| difficult to eradicate as silverfish, but which were also
| bloodsuckers, like bedbugs. In short, he's saying bedbugs are
| horrifying.
| roncesvalles wrote:
| Just spray permethrin and be done with it. It's the only thing
| that works and if you spray in all the right places, one round
| of spraying fixes it forever.
|
| Source: about 15 years of fighting silverfish, until someone
| suggested permethrin on Reddit
| ProllyInfamous wrote:
| You need (perhaps multiple) dehumidifiers.
|
| Keep at 40-45% rel.hum. and silverfish will disappear.
|
| Don't keep food unsealed (looking at you: unwashed dishwear)
| and cockroaches will disappear.
|
| Have neither and centipedes will disappear.
|
| ----
|
| No advice for bedbugs other than Diatomacious Earth and not
| bringing in used furniture / houseguests.
| tiltowait wrote:
| I worked pest control for a few years until 2021. We all knew
| that pesticides basically don't work on bed bugs--it was old
| news.
|
| The article glosses over heat treatments, which is odd, because
| it really does work, and usually in a single session. It's a very
| labor-intensive and invasive procedure, though. The residents
| must leave the house for 8 hours while the techs bake each room
| and throw everything around. By the time it's over, it looks like
| a tornado went through the house. And our prices started at $5k.
|
| But it did work. The only two scenarios I was aware of where it
| didn't were the result of operator error (laziness) or the
| customer unknowingly taking bed bugs out of the house with them
| when they left (we found the bed bugs were living in a baseball
| cap).
| Gys wrote:
| I read once they get into beds by crawling up the bedposts and
| by putting something smooth like aluminum cups around the
| posts, the bugs cannot crawl up. What do you think of that?
| sdwr wrote:
| I'd assume that works for local bedbugs, but is no defense
| against ones tracked in on clothing, furniture, etc.
| philihp wrote:
| Not much can stop a lone bedbug carried in. What you're
| trying to do is prevent your mattress from becoming a nest.
|
| The problem with DE is it's so inexpensive and effective,
| and that makes it difficult to sell as a product. I got a
| 2kg bag of it for $10, and it's enough to last decades.
| lm28469 wrote:
| Might as well use this
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth
| spiderxxxx wrote:
| I can confirm, DE works. Just don't breathe the stuff,
| which you're supposed to puff onto surfaces. Once it's
| there, the bugs have to crawl across it so it'll cut them
| up like little razor blades, or a thousand paper cuts. So
| satisfying.
| delecti wrote:
| It's less like a thousand paper cuts, and more like it
| removes their stillsuit so they dry out.
|
| https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Stillsuit
| fbdab103 wrote:
| Basically anything microscopic is increasingly found to
| be just horrible to inhale, but this blurb from Wikipedia
| says there are probably significantly worse things to
| handle for a one-time treatment. ...In a
| 1978 study of workers, those exposed to natural
| diatomaceous earth for over five years had no significant
| lung changes while 40% of those exposed to the calcined
| form had developed pneumoconiosis.[46] Today's common
| diatomaceous earth formulations are safer to use, as they
| are predominantly made up of amorphous silica and contain
| little or no crystalline silica.[47] The
| crystalline silica content of diatomaceous earth is
| regulated in the United States by the Occupational Safety
| and Health Administration (OSHA) and there are guidelines
| from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and
| Health that set maximum amounts allowable in the product
| (1%) and in the air near the breathing zone of workers,
| with a recommended exposure limit at 6 mg/m3 over an
| 8-hour workday.[47] OSHA has set a permissible exposure
| limit for diatomaceous earth as 20 mppcf (80
| mg/m3/%SiO2). At levels of 3,000 mg/m3, diatomaceous
| earth is immediately dangerous to life and health.
| In the 1930s, long-term occupational exposure among
| workers in the cristobalite diatomaceous earth industry
| who were exposed to high levels of airborne crystalline
| silica over decades were found to have an increased risk
| of silicosis.[49]
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth
| jamesjuicy55 wrote:
| I fought bed bugs once with DE, heat, and dry ice traps or
| you can use a co2 fish tank pump to attract them into a
| trap. We also placed containers filled with oil at the
| bottom of each bed post.
|
| It took a year but we were successful
| fbdab103 wrote:
| Dry ice is an interesting idea. I _want_ it to work,
| because it is just so deliciously different.
|
| However, I assume the harsh reality says that it is
| nearly impossible to suffocate the entire infestation,
| and more than a few survivors or eggs would remain after
| the treatment.
| scarmig wrote:
| The goal isn't to suffocate them, but to draw them into a
| trap--they're attracted to CO2 because we exhale it. Over
| time, the hope is you trap and kill the entire
| population.
|
| I think it'd work for mild infestations, but for larger
| ones the heat method is really the only option.
| fbdab103 wrote:
| I suppose that seems much more plausible, if
| significantly less cool, ahem, than making a low hanging
| CO2 bath.
| newsclues wrote:
| Both heat and cold kill, it just takes a long time at
| certain temperatures.
| srott wrote:
| Double sided tape trapped whole families :)
| Gys wrote:
| Interesting, so I could put this in a cup below each post.
|
| But I hope we never have to try this.
| ThrowawayR2 wrote:
| There are caveats to using diatomaceous earth. If inhaled,
| it'll do to your airways what it does to insects. You'd
| want to avoid disturbing it or placing any where airflow
| from heating ducts, fans, etc. might blow across it to
| prevent it from floating around in the air.
| jbaber wrote:
| The reason to use fossilized diatoms instead of something
| synthesized is specifically so that you won't get
| silicosis from too much crystallized silica. But I agree,
| just sprinkling it liberally around your house as some
| kind of preventative measure sounds like way more
| exposure than I'd be comfortable with.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth#Safety_c
| ons...
| TheCapeGreek wrote:
| Rubbing vaseline along the base above the feet seemed to do
| the trick for my beds the once or twice they got bedbugs.
| idlewords wrote:
| If the infestation is heavy enough they will climb the walls
| and drop from the ceiling.
| ProllyInfamous wrote:
| NOPE. Fucking nightmares. Done with internet, today.
|
| I'm going to go do my dishes, while contemplating burning
| the whole thing down =D
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| Like special forces bed-bug airborne commandos?
| adventured wrote:
| Ceilings can be tougher for them. One assumes with enough
| bed bugs, the numbers are such that one of them is going
| to inevitably hold onto the ceiling long enough to get
| position. However it's recommended to move beds away from
| walls because they can easily climb walls and fall from
| there.
| yborg wrote:
| My grandfather was in the German army in WW2 and he said
| they called them Fallschirmjager - paratroopers - for
| exactly this reason, they would climb tent walls to drop
| onto beds that had their legs placed in tins of water to
| try and keep them off.
| britzkopf wrote:
| Can't be that old. I had bed bugs in 2012 I believe. I bought
| some of the recommended insecticide and sprayed a small
| perimeter and released a couple that I had captured into the
| middle. They then crawled outward and I was shocked how quickly
| after they crossed the perimeter they died.
| Eisenstein wrote:
| Was the pesticide Proproxur? That stuff does work but you
| can't buy it anymore. I think the last stocks sold around
| 2012...
| adrian_b wrote:
| I believe that not only the bed bugs but most or all bugs
| related to them (Hemiptera) are more resistant to insecticides
| than most other insects.
|
| Where I live, in Europe, when I was young there were abundant
| insects of many kinds, butterflies, dragonflies, lacewings,
| flies, bumblebees, wasps, beetles, crickets and many others.
|
| Now all have disappeared, but various kinds of bugs (Hemiptera)
| are still abundant, actually more abundant than before, when
| many other kinds of insects existed.
| caesil wrote:
| Here's how we got rid of them ourselves for cheap:
|
| 1. Bought a bedbug-proof encasement for every mattress and
| pillow. Seals them in and they starve.
|
| 2. Bought a handheld steam cleaner and steamed every seam on
| every piece of furniture.
| Citizen_Lame wrote:
| 3. Spread the diatomaceous earth all over the floor. Don't be
| shy and over do it. It wont work immediately but in 7 days or
| more they are dead.
| bungbung2 wrote:
| This. My wife had grabbed a couch off the side of the road.
| Perfect condition, even advertised on Facebook as free!
|
| After a couple days we saw these bugs crawling out of the
| couch. After a quick reverse image search, it came back as
| a bed bug.
|
| Lo and behold we noticed these buggers were all over our
| house after a month.
|
| We didn't use anything but diatomaceous earth. Sprinkled it
| all over the house around the base boards and furniture.
| After about two months, they were all gone.
| dom96 wrote:
| Is it safe to use this to avoid any possible bed bug
| outbreaks? or are there any risks that outweigh the benefit
| of it defending against possible bed bugs?
|
| I've been thinking about spreading it around every so often
| under my bed (plus around my bedroom) just in case.
| calamari4065 wrote:
| It's generally considered safe. It's sold as an additive
| to livestock feed, though I don't know what the purpose
| there is.
|
| It's very finely ground volcanic rock. The particulates
| have very sharp edges which shred insect exoskeletons. It
| doesn't hurt your skin though.
|
| It might cause a problem if inhaled, similar to silicosis
| but that's mostly a guess.
|
| Some people leave a line of it on windowsills or door
| thresholds to keep bugs out, but it's a fine powder that
| gets everywhere and makes a mess. Personally I wouldn't
| leave it around but that's up to you
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| > It's very finely ground volcanic rock.
|
| No. "Diatomaceous earth is made from the fossilized
| remains of tiny, aquatic organisms called diatoms. Their
| skeletons are made of a natural substance called silica."
| http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| > It's very finely ground volcanic rock.
|
| Wikipedia is pretty clear that it's finely ground
| fossils. (It also says that it's sedimentary rock, as is
| necessary for fossils. Fossils can't be volcanic rock;
| their structure would be destroyed by melting.)
| bitwize wrote:
| > It's generally considered safe. It's sold as an
| additive to livestock feed, though I don't know what the
| purpose there is.
|
| Antiparasitic.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| You want "food grade" diatomaceous, which is reasonably
| safe. Personally I wouldn't use it preemptively, only
| when there's a suspected problem. I would wear a mask
| when applying.
|
| "Pool grade" diatomaceous earth should not be used, it is
| hazardous to be around as it's structure was changed by
| heating.
|
| https://www.diatomaceousearth.com/blogs/learning-
| center/begi...
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Don't you have to be careful not to breathe that stuff
| since it's composed if tiny silica spikes? You'd need to
| wear a respirator in your house.
| andrei_says_ wrote:
| Have used it to get rid of fleas. The DA dust just lays
| on the floor - once applied it's out of the air.
|
| We didn't wear respirators and I haven't heard of anyone
| who does in this scenario.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _Seals them in and they starve._
|
| The problem here is that their lifecycle is unimaginably long
| and punctuated. They happily hibernate for 6 months at a time
| between feedings, so waiting them out means waiting a very
| very very long time.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| I say we nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be
| sure.
| newhotelowner wrote:
| Heat works.
|
| We heat the room to 120-130 for 12-16 hours.
|
| Some people are magnets. bedbugs love their blood.
| mholt wrote:
| When I lived in Las Vegas we unfortunately moved into an
| apartment for a short time that had them. We just took out all
| the cushions, couches, mattresses, and bedding, and set them
| out in the summer heat for a few days. (It was actually very
| inconvenient, but you know. Worth it.) It worked!
| nickpsecurity wrote:
| I got rid of them in two places just using a bed protector, the
| things you put under the bed's legs, fast-acting spray, and a
| foam spray (residual). I did the bed and edges of the carpet
| and furniture. It killed them all. We knew cuz I didn't have
| bloody holes in my arms and back.
|
| Article indicates some types are immune. That will be a
| different story. People might still be able to clear them out
| with sprays, though.
| nope96 wrote:
| Does the heat treatment damage electronics? Can you leave your
| computers in the house while your house is baking?
| weatherlight wrote:
| We had a house centipede infestation when I lived in NYC.
|
| It was awesome. No bed bugs. No roaches except in the end of
| summer, (the giant flying variety and it was really just the
| month of August when the humidity is out of control they would
| come out of the drains.)
|
| No bugs in general.
|
| Those house centipedes ate everything.
| hotpotamus wrote:
| I once awoke to see a large spider running away from me on my
| bed. I was a bit displeased with that until I learned that they
| hunt roaches. I figured if it was running away from me, then it
| figured (perhaps incorrectly) that I was not to be messed with
| and so the food chain in my house remained as it should be.
| mikub wrote:
| You mean the food chain remained intact as long as you're
| awake. ;)
| prewett wrote:
| I think it is always correct to run away from something 100
| times bigger than you!
| greggsy wrote:
| They would be 1.7cm long if they were 100 time smaller than
| the average human. Seems to check out.
|
| I'm glad you weren't referring to weight. The average human
| weighs 60-80kg, depending on what region you're in. The
| heaviest spider is the Goliath, grows up to 13cm, but only
| weighs up to 135grams...
| RajT88 wrote:
| They are creepy, but they eat baddies.
|
| The last time one showed up in our bathroom, my wife yelled at
| me to "Stop marveling at it!"
|
| It was the biggest one I had ever seen, close to 3 inches. RIP
| Uber-coleoptrata scutigera!
| weatherlight wrote:
| yeah, the get big and move fast..
| kibwen wrote:
| If they're big it means they're eating well, so consider how
| many more bugs you'd be seeing if it hadn't already made a
| meal of them!
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| Is that true? My first guess would have been that size more
| or less directly reflects age.
| deebosong wrote:
| This is frickin hilarious. Your awe and wonder at it, your
| wife's repulsion, and your eulogy hahaha
| greggsy wrote:
| I just googled the scutigera and they're somewhat more
| adorable than the giant centipedes we have in Australia (no
| they're not everywhere, but they're enough to startle you).
| andrewflnr wrote:
| Not when you watch them move, I bet.
| rssoconnor wrote:
| When we moved into our house we were disturbed by the house
| centipedes.
|
| I did a quick search online about how to get rid of them, and I
| mostly found stories of the form "Help, I got rid of all my
| house centipedes and now my home is infested with other bugs!
| How do I get the house centipedes back?"
|
| So we let them be.
| hef19898 wrote:
| I had a bunch of hornets once. Great, because there were no
| flies mosquitos anywhere near the house all summer.
| Unfortunately, the moved out, the hornets, next summer...
| gopher_space wrote:
| In my neck of the woods it's the same deal with spiders. You
| just escort them outside once they get fat and too lazy to
| not be on your wall in the daytime.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| From Wikipedia in 2005:
|
| > House centipedes feed on spiders, termites, cockroaches,
| silverfish and other household pests. They do not cause
| damage to food or furniture.
|
| > For this reason, house centipedes are considered among the
| most beneficial creatures that inhabit human dwellings, but
| because of their alarming appearance few homeowners are
| willing to share a home with them.
|
| ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scutigera_coleop
| t... )
|
| For some reason, this has been stripped from the article,
| despite obviously being the most useful information that was
| present in it.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| Same, had an old house in Michigan that would otherwise have
| been prone to filling up with orb-weaver type spiders if not
| for the centipedes. They'd also quickly vacuum up the wolf
| spiders that would try to invade whenever it rained.
|
| Apparently house centipedes can live for up to about 7 years,
| and need a few years to reach breeding age.
| chasil wrote:
| Even the best hotels have dealt with bedbugs. For safety, leave
| your luggage in your car for a few days when you return from a
| trip.
|
| Ideally, you want the temperature to either drop below freezing
| or rise above 100degF, which will kill bedbugs.
|
| The same procedure should be employed with used furniture,
| perhaps more aggressively.
|
| There is also a trick with dry ice and talcum powder if you think
| an infestation is starting and you want to confirm.
|
| If I had never bought rental property, I would never have known
| any of this. I am relieved to have sold it all.
|
| EDIT: The article says 120degF.
| wcarss wrote:
| IIRC, below freezing also isn't generally good enough -- I
| forget what the specifics are from when I cared a lot about it
| 5+ years ago, but it's something like -20C consistently for a
| few whole days for all the stages of bedbug and their eggs to
| be destroyed by cold. They're surprisingly resistant to death
| from cold -- but a good hot dryer at 120F for ~30+ minutes will
| definitely get 'em.
| idlewords wrote:
| This exactly. Freezing is useless unless you have something
| like a lab freezer that gets to -50C. Hot dryer for clothes,
| and you can put empty luggage in a dark trash bag and leave
| it in the sun to heat treat.
| whitepoplar wrote:
| Having run the bedbug site, what's your advice on long-term
| travel? I've never gotten bedbugs, but I feel it's only a
| matter of time. How do you balance prevention with simply
| living your life?
| dom96 wrote:
| > leave your luggage in your car for a few days when you return
| from a trip.
|
| how would that help? are you assuming the temperature in the
| car goes below freezing or above 120F?
| dirtyhippiefree wrote:
| Heat treatment is the only sure way to eradicate bedbugs.
|
| A neighbor fumigated five times and they still remained...until
| heat treatment.
|
| Diatomaceous earth just scatters them, compounding the problem.
| hinkley wrote:
| Freezers also work don't they?
|
| Might come a day when a defunct restaurant gets acquired by a
| pest control company and used to freeze items too expensive or
| dear to replace. But they'd have to use one truck for pickup
| and one for drop off to prevent cross contamination.
| beej71 wrote:
| > Diatomaceous earth just scatters them
|
| I'm pretty sure that's not all it does to them.
|
| When I had bedbugs in an apartment I was renting, I caulked up
| all the spaces by the baseboards where they could get in,
| inspected the bed and wrapped it in a bedbug-proof liner,
| washed and thoroughly dryered all the linens and pillows, and
| then spread DE all over. I put lids under the bedposts with DE
| in them. And I moved the bed away from the wall.
|
| That was the end of them. Didn't get another bite.
| juujian wrote:
| I was talking a friend in China about bed bugs recently. They
| said there is a medicine people take which makes our blood
| poisonous to them. Ironically enough, it's ivermectine... Makes
| sense I suppose, it targets parasites and bed bugs are a
| parasite. I read some papers about it, too. Doesn't seem to be a
| panacea but potentially useful in combination with traditional
| pest control.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| How is that ironic? It's primary use in humans is versus
| parasites. It's a godsend against scabies...
|
| (Which I had at the beginning of the pandemic, my doctor
| casually mentioning "it also has known anti-viral properties")
| hinkley wrote:
| I know someone who is using it topically for rosacea. I guess
| some forms at least are a reaction to mites. So bye bye
| mites.
| MOARDONGZPLZ wrote:
| I don't think ironic is _quite_ right, but it does mean
| paradoxical, and it's somewhat paradoxical that ivermectin is
| being effectively used in humans here for bedbug treatment
| when you consider the juxtaposition against the far right
| wing conspiracy theories that it would cure covid in humans
| but instead only harmed people.
| jp57 wrote:
| The obvious answer is centipedes. If you are going to have to
| tolerate any kind of bug in your house, Scutigera Coleoptrata,
| the common house centipede, is the one to have.
|
| These creepy, long-legged brown centipedes were familiar to
| everyone I knew growing up in the northeastern US. They are shy
| of people and tend to stay in the basement at night and only come
| out at night when it's dark, cool, and quiet (increasing their
| creepiness).
|
| The upside? They eat other bugs, including many pests like
| termites, cockroaches, and bedbugs.
| koolba wrote:
| If you have centipedes in your house then de facto you have
| other bugs. They're strictly carnivores.
|
| So as cool and helpful as they are, their continued existence
| indicates you have other problems as well.
|
| Best to consider them like Sully in the movie Commando: " _I
| like you. I'm gonna kill you last._ "
| _dark_matter_ wrote:
| How is it possible to have a house with no insects? I just
| don't even see that as feasible, except maybe for a small new
| house with no shrubbery (and probably in a desert
| environment?). There ain't no way you're living in a house
| with zero bugs.
| koolba wrote:
| I'm not saying there can be zero bugs. I'm saying if you
| regularly find centipedes, then there's enough other bugs
| to sustain them. They don't just go outside to hit up a
| local cafe then come back home after.
|
| Plus, they can live for 5-6 years. The bigger they are, the
| longer they've been there too.
| amelius wrote:
| It's not like the centipedes are going to farm the bedbugs.
| jp57 wrote:
| This is like saying that the continued existence of Burmese
| pythons in the Everglades implies that the small mammals (and
| other python prey) are definitely doing fine and their
| numbers are just as high as always, of course, because
| otherwise all the pythons would be dead.
| jbaber wrote:
| My house isn't a sealed system, though, at the bug-sized
| level. Having some sentries whose diet is invaders seems good
| to me.
| cassepipe wrote:
| If you ever have bed bugs, do yourself a favor and buy water
| vapor gun, with a large tank.
|
| Adults and larvae die at 60 degrees so vapor is like the nuclear
| option to them. Also it's non-toxic to you, it doesn't stain and
| the vapor can penetrate anything anywhere.
|
| For example : https://www.kaercher.com/fr/home-garden/nettoyeurs-
| vapeur/sc...
| ametrau wrote:
| Do you mean steam? The link is to a steam cleaner. That's a
| cool idea.
| jbaber wrote:
| Even in French, it doesn't call it a gun. But I like this name.
| I'm calling my steam cleaner a "vapor gun" from now on. :)
| 123pie123 wrote:
| mark rober did a good entertaining video on this, including the
| various tricks how to get rid of them (and what does not work)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JAOTJxYqh8
| haltcatchfire wrote:
| Mark is such a gem.
| ndiddy wrote:
| Another entertaining bed bug video: https://vimeo.com/57254558
| DrFell wrote:
| I had a bedbug problem in a place I rented. The landlord used
| heat, and it seemed to work. I also just used common sense and
| got a mattress liner and used Permethrin around the perimeter of
| my room, and it cleared up.
| deafpolygon wrote:
| I would nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
| sebastiangula wrote:
| Y
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