[HN Gopher] The Tears of a Clown: Probing the comedian's psyche ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Tears of a Clown: Probing the comedian's psyche (2008)
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 109 points
       Date   : 2024-02-10 12:32 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.psychologytoday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.psychologytoday.com)
        
       | throw0101b wrote:
       | See also perhaps:
       | 
       | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sad_clown_paradox
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | And: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38198417
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Thanks! Macroexpanded:
           | 
           |  _Sad clown paradox_ -
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38198417 - Nov 2023 (124
           | comments)
        
         | wanderingstan wrote:
         | This is the better link. Original link involuntarily skips to
         | mcafee advertisement.
        
           | goles wrote:
           | If anyone is interested in further reading, the link
           | references this Psychology Today article[0] which is a
           | synopsis of _The Tears of a Clown: Understanding Comedy
           | Writers(2009)_ [1] by the same author.
           | 
           | PT article also references _Pretend the world is funny and
           | forever: a psychological analysis of comedians, clowns, and
           | actors(1981)_ [2].
           | 
           | Pretty interesting read.
           | 
           | [0]https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/beautiful-
           | minds/2008...
           | 
           | [1]https://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-
           | content/uploads/2011/06/Kau...
           | 
           | [2]https://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Aannas-
           | archive.org+%22Pr...
        
           | dang wrote:
           | We changed the url from https://www.iflscience.com/sad-clown-
           | paradox-why-you-should-... to the article it points to.
           | 
           | (edit: which I see goles also referenced in the sibling
           | comment!)
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Perhaps especially if they use "/s" often?
        
       | pfdietz wrote:
       | I'm sure my friend Pagliacci will be just fine.
        
         | chx wrote:
         | https://i.somethingawful.com/u/boldfrankenstein/Captain_Quac...
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | Good joke. Everyone laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.
        
       | keiferski wrote:
       | I don't think this is actually a paradox, even though we
       | generally associate laughter and comedy with happiness. It's more
       | accurate to say that happiness is akin to calmness or
       | contentment, the _lack_ of strong emotions.
       | 
       | Personally, after watching a funny comedian, I feel more
       | emotionally exhausted than happy - which makes sense to me from
       | this perspective.
        
         | zogrodea wrote:
         | Your second paragraph reminds of Aristotle's counter to Plato
         | in one instance.
         | 
         | The debate was about whether media (poetry, plays) should be
         | allowed. Plato thought, no, because poetry and other media
         | burden the audience with emotions that have no value in
         | practical life.
         | 
         | Aristotle countered that the poem has a "payoff" which relieves
         | these emotions generated by reading the poem, so that the
         | audience feels less emotionally burdened by the time it ends.
         | 
         | I particularly like R. G. Collingwood's historical commentary
         | on their debate in The Principles of Art (published 1938),
         | where he talks about our addiction to entertainment and being
         | trapped in a vicious cycle ("one more episode").
        
           | keiferski wrote:
           | Yep, and this is called _catharsis_.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis
           | 
           | For more on Plato's thoughts on aesthetics:
           | 
           | https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato-aesthetics/
           | 
           | I wouldn't say he was critical of poetry because they weren't
           | "valuable in practical life" as Plato certainly wasn't a
           | pragmatist. It's more that he thought the imitative arts
           | didn't give true knowledge (i.e., a poet talking about war
           | doesn't have actual true knowledge of war) and that
           | poetry/literature often has bad role models that shouldn't be
           | imitated by real people.
           | 
           | I used to find Plato's criticisms absurd and difficult to
           | understand, but as media becomes more realistic, more
           | influential, and more willing to display unethical characters
           | in a sympathetic light for the sake of "the market" or
           | "storytelling" I think he is probably correct at some level.
           | 
           | I'm thinking of the countless shows which glorify violence,
           | cheating, drug smuggling, and so forth. It's not clear that
           | glorifying these things in the media leads to them being
           | acted out in real life, but even if it doesn't: that still
           | seems like a massive sense of cognitive dissonance, wherein
           | the cultural products of a society are only tenuously related
           | to its real-world values.
        
             | throwup238 wrote:
             | I think Plato's argument is best illustrated by the TV show
             | _How TV Ruined Your Life_ by Charlie Brooker (the creator
             | of _Black Mirror_ ). Each episode covers different topics
             | like technology, love, etc. which television has completely
             | warped.
             | 
             | It's not even about glorifying some of the worst aspects of
             | humanity, it's about all of our expectations. My favorite
             | concrete example is child birth: it's always portrayed as a
             | quick procedure in the vast majority of TV shows, less than
             | a few minutes from water breaking to the baby popping out.
             | Nothing could be further from the truth and a lot of women
             | get a nasty surprise when they get pregnant and an OBGYN
             | explains what to expect.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | Consider, in a related vein, what happens when things are
               | just omitted.
               | 
               | Miscarriages are an extremely common phenomenon for
               | humans. Yet while our stories about reproduction feature
               | endless variations of the conception, pregnancy,
               | childbirth and child raising parts of the process, very
               | little mention is ever made of miscarriages.
               | 
               | As a result, when they happen (which they do a lot), they
               | come as a real shock for people who have not otherwise
               | been exposed to this detail of the human condition, even
               | though they are really quite normal, perhaps even
               | mundane.
        
             | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
             | > wherein the cultural products of a society are only
             | tenuously related to its real-world values.
             | 
             | I don't know if Plato does this too, but I'm pretty certain
             | you're making a mistake here. Most (almost all, I would
             | argue) of the shows that feature violence, cheating, drug
             | smuggling etc. present them as cautionary tales: do <this>
             | and <that> will probably happen to you, even if there's a
             | brief period between when you think things are going well.
             | 
             | Human cultures are full of _cautionary tales_ , and in this
             | sense these "countless shows" are not glorifying their
             | themes, but continuing in the tradition of telling us
             | "don't do this (probably)".
        
               | keiferski wrote:
               | This is a common rebuttal, but I don't think it holds up
               | under much scrutiny. People idolize the charismatic
               | protagonists, they don't look at them as cautionary
               | tales. The reaction is "that's cool," not "I guess he
               | didn't win in the end."
               | 
               | Fight Club is a good example. Tyler Durden is clearly the
               | most charismatic character and has "inspired" a whole lot
               | of viewers, even if he loses in the end.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | It is difficult to deal with examples like Fight Club,
               | where the audience simply interprets the entire story in
               | a different way than the author.
               | 
               | Should an author be responsible when they create a what
               | they intend to be a cautionary tale only to find that it
               | is interpreted as a celebratory tale?
        
               | keiferski wrote:
               | I don't think the author is the relevant person here. The
               | filmmakers are, and they pretty clearly chose to make
               | Durden a charismatic figure and Jack an awkward one. And
               | of course they would - it makes for a better story and
               | overall film.
               | 
               | Beyond that, I think most films/shows are functionally
               | the same. No one wants to watch an ugly, uncharismatic
               | actor just...fail. That doesn't make for a good story. It
               | seems pretty obvious to me that the vast majority shows
               | are produced based on the quality of the story, not on
               | instilling ethical values. Otherwise why would something
               | like _Dexter_ even exist?
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | Durden is, according the author at least, an imaginary
               | character. In his mind at least that overrides the
               | "charisma" level. So make of that what you will.
               | 
               | People preferences for story telling is partly why the
               | really good story tellers are so reverred: they make us
               | comfortable, engaged even, in stories in which our
               | natural inclinations would lead us towards different
               | outcomes. We don't like watching ugly, uncharismatic
               | actors fail, but the good stories keep us engaged when
               | the pretty, charismatic actors get their just rewards for
               | bad behavior.
               | 
               | I have no idea why anyone would think that Dexter is not
               | a tale about moral values, and the "right ones" too ...
        
               | andrewflnr wrote:
               | "Responsible" is a highly overloaded word, but if nothing
               | else it's a call for writers to be cautious in how they
               | present things.
               | 
               | I'm working on a story with a (mostly) sympathetic
               | protagonist who does some awful things and ultimately
               | undergoes moral meltdown. One of my beta readers pointed
               | out that my ending, bleak as it was, sort of rewarded the
               | protagonist by giving her catharsis and some vindication,
               | if not an actual happy ending. I took that as the top
               | priority from that round of feedback and made sure to
               | tweak the framing.
               | 
               | Did I succeed? Maybe. Can I absolutely prevent people
               | from taking the wrong message? No. But I can try, and at
               | least cut off the obvious routes to misinterpretation,
               | learning from previous examples (Fight Club is actually
               | not too far off in spirit). I think this is a moral
               | responsibility of anyone making art, especially stories,
               | for consumption by others: you at least have to try,
               | where "try" includes a good faith effort to learn from
               | common mistakes.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | Thank you for your service.
        
               | andrewflnr wrote:
               | Service? Thank me when it's published and the real life
               | feedback comes in. Maybe. :D
        
             | jbboehr wrote:
             | > I'm thinking of the countless shows which glorify
             | violence, cheating, drug smuggling, and so forth. It's not
             | clear that glorifying these things in the media leads to
             | them being acted out in real life, but even if it doesn't:
             | that still seems like a massive sense of cognitive
             | dissonance, wherein the cultural products of a society are
             | only tenuously related to its real-world values.
             | 
             | Remember the good ol' days?
             | 
             | > All criminal action had to be punished, and neither the
             | crime nor the criminal could elicit sympathy from the
             | audience, or the audience must at least be aware that such
             | behavior is wrong, usually through "compensating moral
             | value".
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code
        
         | chmod600 wrote:
         | "It's more accurate to say that happiness is akin to calmness
         | or contentment, the lack of strong emotions."
         | 
         | I'm not sure where you got that definition?
        
       | haxzie wrote:
       | I see myself, and it's scary.
        
       | croes wrote:
       | Good humor comes from pain
        
         | coffeebeqn wrote:
         | Sometimes it's not necessarily individual but societal pain.
         | Carlin or Hicks were great at that. I'm sure both had
         | individual pain too but their material was more broad
        
         | vegetablepotpie wrote:
         | I was just thinking about this, I saw a comedy bit about a man
         | taking to one of his children that was the result of his wife
         | having an extra-marital affair [1]. It's a really terrible
         | situation for everyone involved. The comedian made it
         | hilarious. Comedy is trauma packaged as entertainment.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/StandUpComedy/comments/1ah5cyk/i_ha...
        
       | PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote:
       | Chris Farley and Robin Williams have to be the canonical example
       | of this.
        
         | ggrelet wrote:
         | Also Jim Carrey
        
         | iJohnDoe wrote:
         | Mitch Hedberg.
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | Lenny Bruce, John Belushi, Sam Kennison, probably Andy Kaufman
         | if cancer hadn't killed him first. Anthony Bourdain.
        
         | paulcole wrote:
         | How many thousands of entertainers and comedians are neutral or
         | happy but we never hear about because that's less interesting
         | than the Sad Clown narrative?
        
       | billy99k wrote:
       | This reminds me of something similar. I dated a girl back in
       | college who was the most miserable and unhappy person I ever met.
       | 
       | But, she would project this niceness and happiness to everyone
       | (She didn't have lots of friends and was always very quiet. Also
       | VERY passive aggressive and judgmental and was deathly afraid of
       | what others thought of her). She also didn't seem to think any of
       | this was a problem. It ended up being very toxic for our
       | relationship and I had a clean break and haven't talked to her
       | for almost a decade.
       | 
       | I checked up on her recently and she now has a podcast related to
       | happiness and how you can be as happiness as her. I seriously
       | doubt she's changed. It's just more projection to the world that
       | she's a happy person.
        
         | ZeroGravitas wrote:
         | There was the Scott Alexander thing recently (in the context of
         | defending polyamory) talking about how if you want information
         | on how to walk, then you'd probably be better talking to the
         | person who has some debilitating physical issue as they've been
         | motivated to think about it long and hard, and find all sorts
         | of tricks and techniques to make it easier, while most people
         | have never even thought about walking. And that many "experts"
         | will fit this model.
         | 
         | I don't think he said a follow up thought I just had, which is
         | that the kind of person who goes looking for walking or
         | happiness podcasts is very likely not in the "just comes
         | naturally demographic" either.
        
           | billy99k wrote:
           | This is good for people that learned how to overcome their
           | issues. However, in my case, I think she is still unhappy,
           | but is so afraid of what others might think of her (she also
           | now has a career), that she has to broadcast to the world
           | that she's happy. I wouldn't want to follow the advice from
           | someone like this.
        
         | hotpotamus wrote:
         | Would you have dated her at all if she had been honest about
         | how miserable she is up front? If her inherent personality is
         | just miserable, then how else is she supposed to navigate
         | through life?
        
           | bongodongobob wrote:
           | You work on yourself first, then date. That's for her to
           | figure out. No one owes miserable people a chance. I'm not
           | sure why you're suggesting lying is acceptable just so she
           | can date. Weird opinion.
        
             | hotpotamus wrote:
             | Perhaps we could call it putting your best self forward to
             | make a good first impression? The advice I've often seen is
             | to treat a date like a job interview - is full honesty
             | expected there? In fact, in a romantic context, is full
             | honesty ever appropriate? If you said something like, we're
             | probably both around 7 on the attractiveness scale, make
             | similar incomes, aren't getting any younger, and probably
             | can't do much better; let's settle for each other - how
             | would that sort of honesty play?
        
               | bongodongobob wrote:
               | I don't think treating dating like a job interview is a
               | good idea unless you are interviewing them. You can
               | either put your personality out there and be rejected or
               | you can fake it, and then when you do out your actual
               | self out there get rejected later down the road.
               | 
               | The choice is yours!
        
               | borski wrote:
               | I agreed with your first comment, but this isn't quite
               | fair. People put their best foot forward not because they
               | are lying or pretending their negative qualities don't
               | exist, but because showing the positive ones can often
               | lead someone to overlook and _accept_ the negative ones,
               | whereas leading with the negative rarely works the other
               | way around.
               | 
               | You dress up for interviews, more than you would to go
               | get a coffee, and likely more than an average day at the
               | office. Is that lying?
               | 
               | People also dress up for dates. They wear makeup and nice
               | shoes. They're not liars; they're dating.
        
               | funnym0nk3y wrote:
               | I always wondered (and still do) what people feel when
               | they dress up to date. I've always thought of it as
               | hiding my true personality. Showing someone different.
               | Playing a role. Does everyone feel like that?
        
               | borski wrote:
               | Nope. I don't spend every day walking around in my best
               | threads. But I do spend _some_ time doing it, and it
               | feels special and important, and it shows I respect the
               | occasion and the other party enough to put in the work.
               | Moreover, it shows that I'm _willing_ to put in the work
               | for something I might care about. None of those are lies.
               | 
               | And all of that makes an impression before anyone has
               | said a word.
        
               | hotpotamus wrote:
               | I'll note that both your options there end in rejection.
        
             | funnym0nk3y wrote:
             | And when to stop working on yourself and start dating?
             | Which metric to fulfill? Unfortunately there are people
             | that are predisposed to certain difficult personality
             | traits. Personality heritability is about 50%. So working
             | on it is a limited affair. Nobody is perfect, and dating is
             | about finding someone who is comfortable with your
             | imperfections and your with theirs. Nobody owes me anything
             | more than basic human rights and dignity. And what I expect
             | I try to give to others.
        
       | riffraff wrote:
       | An insanely good short video on this subject
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/tX8TgVR33KM
       | 
       | Edit: well not, exactly this subject but close enough.
        
         | fakedang wrote:
         | I knew which video it was without even watching. That video
         | came out at a particularly difficult time for me, and it's
         | message is strong.
        
       | freitzkriesler2 wrote:
       | I wonder how lawyers would answer these questions.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, when it comes to moderation it comes downtown to
       | house rules and who is "ruling" the house. Sometimes, "read the
       | room" is the only way you'll fit in.
        
       | odyssey7 wrote:
       | Another one to consider is the Sylvia Plath Effect:
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Plath_effect
        
       | saasjosh wrote:
       | I recently watched a Rails World 2023 conference talk where Aaron
       | Patterson was laughing hysterically and making jokes throughout.
       | 
       | Someone should check on him.
        
       | mrbonner wrote:
       | A couple if months before the pandemic lockdown I lost my dad.
       | Then, the lockdown came. I got hit hard emotionally but tried to
       | look fine. I thought I was fine, too. Family told me I was super
       | competitive for no reason and tried to win even in simple board
       | games. I felt there was rifts between me and my own family. I
       | thought it would help see a therapist. During one of the session,
       | I told her that I thought I was funny and made people around me
       | laugh. She emphasized and made me understand the difference
       | between being funny and being sarcastic. One is genuinely healthy
       | while the other show deeper mental health issue. It struck me
       | pretty hard but open my eyes to see that I had a real problem.
       | 
       | I said that those sessions help me a lot, both in family and at
       | work now.
        
         | sbstp wrote:
         | How does being sarcastic stem from a deeper mental health
         | issue? Negativity?
        
           | kome wrote:
           | i'm not a psychologist, but that's something i noticed as
           | well before interacting with people. some clever sarcasm can
           | spice up a conversation, but sarcasm in heavy doses is
           | clearly a signal of distress, or mismanagement of anger or
           | pain. sarcasm is the humor of the sour souls.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | Sarcasm is usually a defence mechanism.
        
           | borski wrote:
           | Overusing sarcasm is a method of expressing displeasure or
           | discontent without actively pushing away those around you.
           | You're not actively insulting them, you're "just joking," but
           | simultaneously expressing negative feelings. As a pointed
           | remark, it can be hellishly funny. Used as the crux of a
           | sense of humor, it is pretty clearly a scream for help, even
           | if the speaker doesn't know it yet.
        
           | _a_a_a_ wrote:
           | I had a mate who was very funny; his wit was razor sharp and
           | cutting. I was often at the receiving end of it, mainly
           | because he knew I would take it as funny, nonetheless it was
           | an external projection of his unhappiness inside. Happy
           | ending: he met a girl, and very quickly the brutal edge of
           | his humour disappeared. A shame, because I enjoyed it, but
           | seeing his happiness, it's well worth it.
           | 
           | I often try and make people laugh, partly from a feeling of
           | inadequacy, but partly the habit set long ago in my abusive
           | childhood. Make the particularly unpredictable and dangerous
           | parent laugh and you got a few minutes of safety (including
           | physical safety). It was a strong motivator to be 'witty'.
        
           | shermantanktop wrote:
           | Sarcasm is humor that attempts to invert a power dynamic
           | while superficially being an appropriate thing to say. It can
           | be defensive and weak.
           | 
           | Luckily the easy defense against sarcasm it take the
           | statements at face value. "Oh, really? You wanted to work on
           | Saturday? Well, great then."
        
           | chmod600 wrote:
           | Not an expert, but it seems to me that sarcasm is a kind of
           | universal negativity that can be applied to pretty much
           | anything. It's also incredibly vague and ambiguous about
           | whether anything better exists or could exist.
           | 
           | For instance, looking at American news, you could
           | sarcastically say "Go America!" to almost any story (unless
           | it's actually good news, of course). Not only is such sarcasm
           | negative, but it's also very passive.
           | 
           | Sarcasm also strikes me as juvenile. Children complain
           | because they expect a parent will find a solution for them.
           | Juveniles turn to sarcasm because they don't want to ask an
           | adult to solve it, but they don't have a solution either.
           | Then when they grow up, they realize that problems really do
           | need to be solved and no one else will do it, so they need to
           | use more productive communication strategies.
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | > Family told me I was super competitive for no reason and
         | tried to win even in simple board games.
         | 
         | It's going to vary between groups, but hyper-competitive board
         | gaming is a thing and a good argument over one sentence in a
         | rule book can happen without anyone ruining relationships.
        
       | roldie wrote:
       | I often recall the Robin Williams quote:
       | 
       | >"I think the saddest people always try their hardest to make
       | people happy because they know what it's like to feel absolutely
       | worthless and they don't want anyone else to feel like that."
       | 
       | I consider myself funny and am always joking around. However, I
       | never felt such strong association with comedians until after
       | both of my parents passed in difficult fashions. I felt such a
       | strong need to be funny, like it was my only good personality
       | trait. I eventually took a standup class. I enjoyed getting on
       | stage and working up to my 5 min set. I still write jokes and go
       | to open mics every now and then.
       | 
       | The two takeaways I have are:
       | 
       | * the practice of writing everyday was key. Having to articulate
       | what was actually upsetting me--instead of just saying "I hate
       | this or that"--to find what was funny or absurd about it really
       | helped me release a lot of the pent up anger.
       | 
       | * like the quote, making other people laugh was/is so rewarding
       | both for my own self-esteem and for knowing that I brought a
       | little joy to others
        
       | justinlloyd wrote:
       | I have always used humour, proper humour, not sarcasm, in a
       | variety of ways. Find the dark humour in a dark situation. Make a
       | wise ass remark during a stressful situation. Sometimes the
       | humour is inappropriately placed; inappropriately placed but
       | still funny. "I had an absolute shit Christmas - I got laid off,
       | my dad died, and someone gave me white sport socks. Seriously!?
       | Who the hell gives white sport socks as a gift?"
       | 
       | Humour is my armour.
       | 
       | Sometimes my clowning is seen as unprofessional by "serious
       | business people" but I honestly don't care to work with those
       | kinds of people anyway. I use humour to start conversations with
       | people. I make my wife laugh every single day.
       | 
       | "What's up?" I asked as I walked in the bedroom.
       | 
       | "I'm burning up" replies my wife on a cold January evening.
       | 
       | "She's burning up. She wants the world to know. She's so hot
       | she'll glow. She's burning up. She wants to know the cause! Maybe
       | it's early on-set meno-pause! 'coz she's burning up!"
       | 
       | I'm an introvert.
       | 
       | "Hah!" exclaims someone at the back of the room.
       | 
       | No. Really. I'm an introvert.
       | 
       | I know all the names of the people at Trader Joe's on Sunset. I
       | know the names of the people at the Starbucks opposite. I know
       | the names of many of the regulars. Many of the people that work
       | the stores around the area too. The people at the post office.
       | Our regular UPS and Fedex drivers stop to chat. I can tell you
       | about their kids, their jobs, their life. They know me too, or
       | many of them do. I talk to them all. Ask questions about their
       | day.
       | 
       | What you see in-person in front of you at the office, at the
       | restaurant, making sure everyone is included, talking to anybody
       | I run into, working a room at a networking group, that's not me.
       | I put on my Oxford shirt. I put on my black cashmere jacket. I
       | pick up my electronic business cards. That's my sword and my
       | shield. I step into battle. Face the world. Talk with everyone.
       | Make sure they aren't left out. Approach everyone. Show interest.
       | Ask questions. When people come together in a social setting, I'm
       | usually that single connection between a lot of disparate people.
       | 
       | At a networking meeting where I know nobody to start I will know
       | dozens by the end of the night, "Hey Dave, great to make your
       | acquaintance! Have you met Jeff? Let me introduce you, he's this
       | awesome software developer out of Facebook. You guys should
       | talk." A minute ago I didn't know Dave. Fifteen minutes ago I
       | didn't know Jeff.
       | 
       | People want to talk about themselves. And nobody knows how to
       | break into the conversation. I'm that catalyst. Their ice
       | breaker.
       | 
       | "Here, let me find Mike in this crowd, he knows Android stuff, he
       | can answer your questions." I know Android stuff too, but let's
       | introduce two new people to each other, this isn't about me.
       | 
       | I go home and I close the door and I sigh a sigh of relief that
       | it is over and I can just be alone and recharge.
       | 
       | I studied improv and comedy for a few years, had a small side
       | career in it too for a while, even appeared in a few Hollywood
       | clubs, which sounds more impressive than it really is.
       | 
       | Robin Williams and Steve Martin were teenage heroes of mine. I
       | wanted to be like that. That non-stop onslaught of stream of
       | conscious pinballing from one comedic observation to another. The
       | art of improv isn't that it is all done right there, but that its
       | rehearsed, and rather than an entire show, a six course dinner
       | served at a fine restaurant like many comedy routines, improv is
       | a Chinese buffet where you are elbowing the last words from your
       | mouth out of the way to get at the next crunchy morsel your ADD
       | brain just leapt too.
       | 
       | There is a scene, where Pam Dawber played by Sarah Murphree in
       | the test footage for a biopic tells Robin Williams, played by
       | Jamie Costa, "Shut up for a minute, I'm being serious."
       | 
       | When I watched that footage with my wife, she looked at me and
       | said "That's you." And I had to apologize to her for having to
       | live with that.
       | 
       | Years ago, when I first met my wife, I said "one day, you'll tell
       | me to shut up. It'll happen."
       | 
       | "Oh, that'll never happen" said she.
       | 
       | "She wants the world to know, that she's burning up!"
       | 
       | "Shut up for a minute would you? I'm being serious!" she said.
       | 
       | Do I suffer from anxiety and depression? No, actually, I enjoy
       | it. Who wouldn't? All those awesome memories flooding back to you
       | in vivid detail at 4AM in the morning.
       | 
       | Pain takes away your humanity. Comedy brings it back.
       | 
       | When people ask me how I'm doing I deadpan that I am living the
       | American dream, but really, deep down, I'm fine, I'm just a
       | little tired that's all.
        
         | imperialdrive wrote:
         | I like your style, amigo.
        
       | klyrs wrote:
       | Clown reporting for duty... yep. My dad was a funny guy, his
       | whole family was funny except his eldest brother who _only_ has
       | darkness. He wasn 't as abusive as his dad; we never got the shit
       | kicked out of us, but I grew up dealing with some dad-derived-
       | darkness. I was always class clown, I continually crack jokes,
       | people keep complaining that HN doesn't do humor but jeez, folks,
       | 90% of my karma here comes from pithy observational humor.
       | (truth: HN hates low-hanging fruit of all varieties, and
       | comedians who complain about their audience _suck_ *)
       | 
       | This is something I've been thinking about recently in job-
       | hunting. NASA [1] has looked at clowns to evaluate their utility
       | in teambuilding -- and no surprise to me, a joker** finds their
       | place in high-stress environments. Makes sense to me, because
       | I've lived this dynamic and my release valve being stuck open has
       | been an incredible social lubricant in my life.
       | 
       | Most people don't know how to let go a little bit: they tend to
       | hold it all in until the dam bursts. I don't think I'd have
       | survived my childhood with that approach. Jokers like me enter a
       | stressful situation, and knock the edge off a little, because
       | this is our natural defense to pre-trauma. In a professional
       | environment, members of our audience are often unaware of the
       | process underway -- jokers hold an umbrella against an unseen
       | rain.
       | 
       | But people think they hate comedy! Jokers are seen as unserious,
       | unreliable; add to that this stupid stereotype that women can't
       | be funny -- I can't put this on my resume, despite it being
       | literally my most useful social skill. Yeah, I can knuckle down
       | and write code and fix bugs like anybody else, but what I can do
       | for social cohesion doesn't get measured. I've even defrayed
       | situations between my manager and my skip with a light comment.
       | I'm reluctant to crack jokes in an interview because of humor's
       | negative perception, but in truth that means I only let the good
       | ones slip out.
       | 
       | But what happens after an interview where I have not found a
       | single opportunity for levity? Do I want to work for a manager
       | who I don't feel comfortable making a joke around?
       | 
       | [1] https://roundupreads.jsc.nasa.gov/roundup/1154
       | 
       | * and yes I do mean latter-day Seinfeld
       | 
       | ** I do prefer the term joker to clown. I've had friends go to
       | clown school, I've had friends go to comedian school... "joker"
       | doesn't imply any kind of pedigree.
        
       | coldtea wrote:
       | A man goes to a doctor. "Doctor, I'm depressed," the man says;
       | life is harsh, unforgiving, cruel". The doctor lights up. The
       | treatment, after all, is simple. "The great clown Pagliacci is in
       | town tonight," the doctor says, "Go and see him! That should sort
       | you out. Next!"
       | 
       | The next guy comes in. "Doctor, I have no joy in my life. I'm
       | thinking of ending things," he says. The doctor tells him: "The
       | great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight," the doctor says, "Go
       | and see him! That should sort you out. Next!"
       | 
       | Another guy comes in. "Doctor, please help me. I'm on my wit's
       | end. Everything is meaningless since I lost my wife a year ago. I
       | can't get off the bed in the morning. I wish I was dead myself".
       | The doctor doesn't miss a beat: "The great clown Pagliacci is in
       | town tonight," the doctor says, "Go and see him! That should sort
       | you out. Next!"
       | 
       | And so on. It's now 7pm and the doctor's office has closed its
       | doors. The doctor picks up the phone and dials a number:
       | 
       | "Hello, is Pagliacci there? I'm doctor Greenwald. Tell him the
       | tally is 38 people today. I expect my usual 10% cut".
        
         | ukuina wrote:
         | A neat twist on the typical ending, wherein the patient sobs:
         | "But doctor, I *am* Pagliacci!"
        
         | zoky wrote:
         | https://twitter.com/spacetwinks/status/965428890830344193
        
         | ronald_raygun wrote:
         | "A moth goes into a podiatrist's office, and the podiatrist's
         | office says, "What seems to be the problem, moth?"
         | 
         | The moth says "What's the problem? Where do I begin, man? I go
         | to work for Gregory Illinivich, and all day long I work.
         | Honestly doc, I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. I don't
         | even know if Gregory Illinivich knows. He only knows that he
         | has power over me, and that seems to bring him happiness. But I
         | don't know, I wake up in a malaise, and I walk here and
         | there... at night I...I sometimes wake up and I turn to some
         | old lady in my bed that's on my arm. A lady that I once loved,
         | doc. I don't know where to turn to. My youngest, Alexendria,
         | she fell in the...in the cold of last year. The cold took her
         | down, as it did many of us. And my other boy, and this is the
         | hardest pill to swallow, doc. My other boy, Gregarro
         | Ivinalititavitch... I no longer love him. As much as it pains
         | me to say, when I look in his eyes, all I see is the same
         | cowardice that I... that I catch when I take a glimpse of my
         | own face in the mirror. If only I wasn't such a coward, then
         | perhaps...perhaps I could bring myself to reach over to that
         | cocked and loaded gun that lays on the bedside behind me and
         | end this hellish facade once and for all...Doc, sometimes I
         | feel like a spider, even though I'm a moth, just barely hanging
         | on to my web with an everlasting fire underneath me. I'm not
         | feeling good. And so the doctor says, "Moth, man, you're
         | troubled. But you should be seeing a psychiatrist. Why on earth
         | did you come here?"
         | 
         | And the moth says, "'Cause the light was on."
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | "Clowns are unhappy" is just something people with no sense of
       | humor say to feel better about themselves.
       | 
       | Everyone is unhappy about something. I'd rather see it channeled
       | into humor than into passive-aggressiveness.
       | 
       | People mention Robin Williams and John Belushi. If you want a
       | (fictional) example, take Jerry (or Larry?) from Parks and Rec.
       | He was as boringly positive as anyone alive, but he had a
       | fantastic family life, and more importantly, I'd bet his kids
       | would say, "Dad is really funny!" And most of his "jokes" would
       | be silly Dad jokes.
        
         | borski wrote:
         | You can have no sense of humor and still be miserable. Humor
         | absolutely is a defense mechanism for people who are sad and
         | depressed; I know because I have anxiety and depression and am
         | funny, and I know why.
         | 
         | But that doesn't mean everyone funny is miserable.
        
           | AlbertCory wrote:
           | We have a set inclusion problem here. (People who are
           | miserable) does not properly contain (people who are funny).
           | They overlap. So we agree.
        
             | borski wrote:
             | Yes, but the percentage of funny people skews heavily
             | toward those who are miserable. That is to say, the center
             | of the Venn diagram is much larger than either of the two
             | individual sides.
        
               | AlbertCory wrote:
               | Evidence?
        
               | borski wrote:
               | Anecdata. I know, not great for a scientific study's
               | purposes, but I cannot deny my own experiences either. :)
        
       | carbine wrote:
       | as a hilarious person i can confirm this is true
        
       | LAC-Tech wrote:
       | As someone who constantly likes to amuse himself by making funny
       | (even if only to me) remarks - some of which make their way here
       | and get flagged! - it has nothing to do with hiding or coping
       | with sadness. I have zero energy for wise cracking if I'm sad.
       | 
       | This article is just more propaganda by dour, humourless bores,
       | trying to make out that they - who have no gaiety in their lives
       | - are the normal ones, and it's those joking, smiling people that
       | are really suffering.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Url changed from https://www.iflscience.com/sad-clown-paradox-
       | why-you-should-..., which points to this.
        
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