[HN Gopher] The Tears of a Clown: Probing the comedian's psyche ...
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The Tears of a Clown: Probing the comedian's psyche (2008)
Author : rbanffy
Score : 109 points
Date : 2024-02-10 12:32 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.psychologytoday.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.psychologytoday.com)
| throw0101b wrote:
| See also perhaps:
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sad_clown_paradox
| amelius wrote:
| And: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38198417
| dang wrote:
| Thanks! Macroexpanded:
|
| _Sad clown paradox_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38198417 - Nov 2023 (124
| comments)
| wanderingstan wrote:
| This is the better link. Original link involuntarily skips to
| mcafee advertisement.
| goles wrote:
| If anyone is interested in further reading, the link
| references this Psychology Today article[0] which is a
| synopsis of _The Tears of a Clown: Understanding Comedy
| Writers(2009)_ [1] by the same author.
|
| PT article also references _Pretend the world is funny and
| forever: a psychological analysis of comedians, clowns, and
| actors(1981)_ [2].
|
| Pretty interesting read.
|
| [0]https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/beautiful-
| minds/2008...
|
| [1]https://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2011/06/Kau...
|
| [2]https://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Aannas-
| archive.org+%22Pr...
| dang wrote:
| We changed the url from https://www.iflscience.com/sad-clown-
| paradox-why-you-should-... to the article it points to.
|
| (edit: which I see goles also referenced in the sibling
| comment!)
| amelius wrote:
| Perhaps especially if they use "/s" often?
| pfdietz wrote:
| I'm sure my friend Pagliacci will be just fine.
| chx wrote:
| https://i.somethingawful.com/u/boldfrankenstein/Captain_Quac...
| bitwize wrote:
| Good joke. Everyone laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.
| keiferski wrote:
| I don't think this is actually a paradox, even though we
| generally associate laughter and comedy with happiness. It's more
| accurate to say that happiness is akin to calmness or
| contentment, the _lack_ of strong emotions.
|
| Personally, after watching a funny comedian, I feel more
| emotionally exhausted than happy - which makes sense to me from
| this perspective.
| zogrodea wrote:
| Your second paragraph reminds of Aristotle's counter to Plato
| in one instance.
|
| The debate was about whether media (poetry, plays) should be
| allowed. Plato thought, no, because poetry and other media
| burden the audience with emotions that have no value in
| practical life.
|
| Aristotle countered that the poem has a "payoff" which relieves
| these emotions generated by reading the poem, so that the
| audience feels less emotionally burdened by the time it ends.
|
| I particularly like R. G. Collingwood's historical commentary
| on their debate in The Principles of Art (published 1938),
| where he talks about our addiction to entertainment and being
| trapped in a vicious cycle ("one more episode").
| keiferski wrote:
| Yep, and this is called _catharsis_.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis
|
| For more on Plato's thoughts on aesthetics:
|
| https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato-aesthetics/
|
| I wouldn't say he was critical of poetry because they weren't
| "valuable in practical life" as Plato certainly wasn't a
| pragmatist. It's more that he thought the imitative arts
| didn't give true knowledge (i.e., a poet talking about war
| doesn't have actual true knowledge of war) and that
| poetry/literature often has bad role models that shouldn't be
| imitated by real people.
|
| I used to find Plato's criticisms absurd and difficult to
| understand, but as media becomes more realistic, more
| influential, and more willing to display unethical characters
| in a sympathetic light for the sake of "the market" or
| "storytelling" I think he is probably correct at some level.
|
| I'm thinking of the countless shows which glorify violence,
| cheating, drug smuggling, and so forth. It's not clear that
| glorifying these things in the media leads to them being
| acted out in real life, but even if it doesn't: that still
| seems like a massive sense of cognitive dissonance, wherein
| the cultural products of a society are only tenuously related
| to its real-world values.
| throwup238 wrote:
| I think Plato's argument is best illustrated by the TV show
| _How TV Ruined Your Life_ by Charlie Brooker (the creator
| of _Black Mirror_ ). Each episode covers different topics
| like technology, love, etc. which television has completely
| warped.
|
| It's not even about glorifying some of the worst aspects of
| humanity, it's about all of our expectations. My favorite
| concrete example is child birth: it's always portrayed as a
| quick procedure in the vast majority of TV shows, less than
| a few minutes from water breaking to the baby popping out.
| Nothing could be further from the truth and a lot of women
| get a nasty surprise when they get pregnant and an OBGYN
| explains what to expect.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Consider, in a related vein, what happens when things are
| just omitted.
|
| Miscarriages are an extremely common phenomenon for
| humans. Yet while our stories about reproduction feature
| endless variations of the conception, pregnancy,
| childbirth and child raising parts of the process, very
| little mention is ever made of miscarriages.
|
| As a result, when they happen (which they do a lot), they
| come as a real shock for people who have not otherwise
| been exposed to this detail of the human condition, even
| though they are really quite normal, perhaps even
| mundane.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| > wherein the cultural products of a society are only
| tenuously related to its real-world values.
|
| I don't know if Plato does this too, but I'm pretty certain
| you're making a mistake here. Most (almost all, I would
| argue) of the shows that feature violence, cheating, drug
| smuggling etc. present them as cautionary tales: do <this>
| and <that> will probably happen to you, even if there's a
| brief period between when you think things are going well.
|
| Human cultures are full of _cautionary tales_ , and in this
| sense these "countless shows" are not glorifying their
| themes, but continuing in the tradition of telling us
| "don't do this (probably)".
| keiferski wrote:
| This is a common rebuttal, but I don't think it holds up
| under much scrutiny. People idolize the charismatic
| protagonists, they don't look at them as cautionary
| tales. The reaction is "that's cool," not "I guess he
| didn't win in the end."
|
| Fight Club is a good example. Tyler Durden is clearly the
| most charismatic character and has "inspired" a whole lot
| of viewers, even if he loses in the end.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| It is difficult to deal with examples like Fight Club,
| where the audience simply interprets the entire story in
| a different way than the author.
|
| Should an author be responsible when they create a what
| they intend to be a cautionary tale only to find that it
| is interpreted as a celebratory tale?
| keiferski wrote:
| I don't think the author is the relevant person here. The
| filmmakers are, and they pretty clearly chose to make
| Durden a charismatic figure and Jack an awkward one. And
| of course they would - it makes for a better story and
| overall film.
|
| Beyond that, I think most films/shows are functionally
| the same. No one wants to watch an ugly, uncharismatic
| actor just...fail. That doesn't make for a good story. It
| seems pretty obvious to me that the vast majority shows
| are produced based on the quality of the story, not on
| instilling ethical values. Otherwise why would something
| like _Dexter_ even exist?
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Durden is, according the author at least, an imaginary
| character. In his mind at least that overrides the
| "charisma" level. So make of that what you will.
|
| People preferences for story telling is partly why the
| really good story tellers are so reverred: they make us
| comfortable, engaged even, in stories in which our
| natural inclinations would lead us towards different
| outcomes. We don't like watching ugly, uncharismatic
| actors fail, but the good stories keep us engaged when
| the pretty, charismatic actors get their just rewards for
| bad behavior.
|
| I have no idea why anyone would think that Dexter is not
| a tale about moral values, and the "right ones" too ...
| andrewflnr wrote:
| "Responsible" is a highly overloaded word, but if nothing
| else it's a call for writers to be cautious in how they
| present things.
|
| I'm working on a story with a (mostly) sympathetic
| protagonist who does some awful things and ultimately
| undergoes moral meltdown. One of my beta readers pointed
| out that my ending, bleak as it was, sort of rewarded the
| protagonist by giving her catharsis and some vindication,
| if not an actual happy ending. I took that as the top
| priority from that round of feedback and made sure to
| tweak the framing.
|
| Did I succeed? Maybe. Can I absolutely prevent people
| from taking the wrong message? No. But I can try, and at
| least cut off the obvious routes to misinterpretation,
| learning from previous examples (Fight Club is actually
| not too far off in spirit). I think this is a moral
| responsibility of anyone making art, especially stories,
| for consumption by others: you at least have to try,
| where "try" includes a good faith effort to learn from
| common mistakes.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Thank you for your service.
| andrewflnr wrote:
| Service? Thank me when it's published and the real life
| feedback comes in. Maybe. :D
| jbboehr wrote:
| > I'm thinking of the countless shows which glorify
| violence, cheating, drug smuggling, and so forth. It's not
| clear that glorifying these things in the media leads to
| them being acted out in real life, but even if it doesn't:
| that still seems like a massive sense of cognitive
| dissonance, wherein the cultural products of a society are
| only tenuously related to its real-world values.
|
| Remember the good ol' days?
|
| > All criminal action had to be punished, and neither the
| crime nor the criminal could elicit sympathy from the
| audience, or the audience must at least be aware that such
| behavior is wrong, usually through "compensating moral
| value".
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code
| chmod600 wrote:
| "It's more accurate to say that happiness is akin to calmness
| or contentment, the lack of strong emotions."
|
| I'm not sure where you got that definition?
| haxzie wrote:
| I see myself, and it's scary.
| croes wrote:
| Good humor comes from pain
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| Sometimes it's not necessarily individual but societal pain.
| Carlin or Hicks were great at that. I'm sure both had
| individual pain too but their material was more broad
| vegetablepotpie wrote:
| I was just thinking about this, I saw a comedy bit about a man
| taking to one of his children that was the result of his wife
| having an extra-marital affair [1]. It's a really terrible
| situation for everyone involved. The comedian made it
| hilarious. Comedy is trauma packaged as entertainment.
|
| [1]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/StandUpComedy/comments/1ah5cyk/i_ha...
| PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote:
| Chris Farley and Robin Williams have to be the canonical example
| of this.
| ggrelet wrote:
| Also Jim Carrey
| iJohnDoe wrote:
| Mitch Hedberg.
| js2 wrote:
| Lenny Bruce, John Belushi, Sam Kennison, probably Andy Kaufman
| if cancer hadn't killed him first. Anthony Bourdain.
| paulcole wrote:
| How many thousands of entertainers and comedians are neutral or
| happy but we never hear about because that's less interesting
| than the Sad Clown narrative?
| billy99k wrote:
| This reminds me of something similar. I dated a girl back in
| college who was the most miserable and unhappy person I ever met.
|
| But, she would project this niceness and happiness to everyone
| (She didn't have lots of friends and was always very quiet. Also
| VERY passive aggressive and judgmental and was deathly afraid of
| what others thought of her). She also didn't seem to think any of
| this was a problem. It ended up being very toxic for our
| relationship and I had a clean break and haven't talked to her
| for almost a decade.
|
| I checked up on her recently and she now has a podcast related to
| happiness and how you can be as happiness as her. I seriously
| doubt she's changed. It's just more projection to the world that
| she's a happy person.
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| There was the Scott Alexander thing recently (in the context of
| defending polyamory) talking about how if you want information
| on how to walk, then you'd probably be better talking to the
| person who has some debilitating physical issue as they've been
| motivated to think about it long and hard, and find all sorts
| of tricks and techniques to make it easier, while most people
| have never even thought about walking. And that many "experts"
| will fit this model.
|
| I don't think he said a follow up thought I just had, which is
| that the kind of person who goes looking for walking or
| happiness podcasts is very likely not in the "just comes
| naturally demographic" either.
| billy99k wrote:
| This is good for people that learned how to overcome their
| issues. However, in my case, I think she is still unhappy,
| but is so afraid of what others might think of her (she also
| now has a career), that she has to broadcast to the world
| that she's happy. I wouldn't want to follow the advice from
| someone like this.
| hotpotamus wrote:
| Would you have dated her at all if she had been honest about
| how miserable she is up front? If her inherent personality is
| just miserable, then how else is she supposed to navigate
| through life?
| bongodongobob wrote:
| You work on yourself first, then date. That's for her to
| figure out. No one owes miserable people a chance. I'm not
| sure why you're suggesting lying is acceptable just so she
| can date. Weird opinion.
| hotpotamus wrote:
| Perhaps we could call it putting your best self forward to
| make a good first impression? The advice I've often seen is
| to treat a date like a job interview - is full honesty
| expected there? In fact, in a romantic context, is full
| honesty ever appropriate? If you said something like, we're
| probably both around 7 on the attractiveness scale, make
| similar incomes, aren't getting any younger, and probably
| can't do much better; let's settle for each other - how
| would that sort of honesty play?
| bongodongobob wrote:
| I don't think treating dating like a job interview is a
| good idea unless you are interviewing them. You can
| either put your personality out there and be rejected or
| you can fake it, and then when you do out your actual
| self out there get rejected later down the road.
|
| The choice is yours!
| borski wrote:
| I agreed with your first comment, but this isn't quite
| fair. People put their best foot forward not because they
| are lying or pretending their negative qualities don't
| exist, but because showing the positive ones can often
| lead someone to overlook and _accept_ the negative ones,
| whereas leading with the negative rarely works the other
| way around.
|
| You dress up for interviews, more than you would to go
| get a coffee, and likely more than an average day at the
| office. Is that lying?
|
| People also dress up for dates. They wear makeup and nice
| shoes. They're not liars; they're dating.
| funnym0nk3y wrote:
| I always wondered (and still do) what people feel when
| they dress up to date. I've always thought of it as
| hiding my true personality. Showing someone different.
| Playing a role. Does everyone feel like that?
| borski wrote:
| Nope. I don't spend every day walking around in my best
| threads. But I do spend _some_ time doing it, and it
| feels special and important, and it shows I respect the
| occasion and the other party enough to put in the work.
| Moreover, it shows that I'm _willing_ to put in the work
| for something I might care about. None of those are lies.
|
| And all of that makes an impression before anyone has
| said a word.
| hotpotamus wrote:
| I'll note that both your options there end in rejection.
| funnym0nk3y wrote:
| And when to stop working on yourself and start dating?
| Which metric to fulfill? Unfortunately there are people
| that are predisposed to certain difficult personality
| traits. Personality heritability is about 50%. So working
| on it is a limited affair. Nobody is perfect, and dating is
| about finding someone who is comfortable with your
| imperfections and your with theirs. Nobody owes me anything
| more than basic human rights and dignity. And what I expect
| I try to give to others.
| riffraff wrote:
| An insanely good short video on this subject
|
| https://youtu.be/tX8TgVR33KM
|
| Edit: well not, exactly this subject but close enough.
| fakedang wrote:
| I knew which video it was without even watching. That video
| came out at a particularly difficult time for me, and it's
| message is strong.
| freitzkriesler2 wrote:
| I wonder how lawyers would answer these questions.
|
| Unfortunately, when it comes to moderation it comes downtown to
| house rules and who is "ruling" the house. Sometimes, "read the
| room" is the only way you'll fit in.
| odyssey7 wrote:
| Another one to consider is the Sylvia Plath Effect:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Plath_effect
| saasjosh wrote:
| I recently watched a Rails World 2023 conference talk where Aaron
| Patterson was laughing hysterically and making jokes throughout.
|
| Someone should check on him.
| mrbonner wrote:
| A couple if months before the pandemic lockdown I lost my dad.
| Then, the lockdown came. I got hit hard emotionally but tried to
| look fine. I thought I was fine, too. Family told me I was super
| competitive for no reason and tried to win even in simple board
| games. I felt there was rifts between me and my own family. I
| thought it would help see a therapist. During one of the session,
| I told her that I thought I was funny and made people around me
| laugh. She emphasized and made me understand the difference
| between being funny and being sarcastic. One is genuinely healthy
| while the other show deeper mental health issue. It struck me
| pretty hard but open my eyes to see that I had a real problem.
|
| I said that those sessions help me a lot, both in family and at
| work now.
| sbstp wrote:
| How does being sarcastic stem from a deeper mental health
| issue? Negativity?
| kome wrote:
| i'm not a psychologist, but that's something i noticed as
| well before interacting with people. some clever sarcasm can
| spice up a conversation, but sarcasm in heavy doses is
| clearly a signal of distress, or mismanagement of anger or
| pain. sarcasm is the humor of the sour souls.
| coldtea wrote:
| Sarcasm is usually a defence mechanism.
| borski wrote:
| Overusing sarcasm is a method of expressing displeasure or
| discontent without actively pushing away those around you.
| You're not actively insulting them, you're "just joking," but
| simultaneously expressing negative feelings. As a pointed
| remark, it can be hellishly funny. Used as the crux of a
| sense of humor, it is pretty clearly a scream for help, even
| if the speaker doesn't know it yet.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| I had a mate who was very funny; his wit was razor sharp and
| cutting. I was often at the receiving end of it, mainly
| because he knew I would take it as funny, nonetheless it was
| an external projection of his unhappiness inside. Happy
| ending: he met a girl, and very quickly the brutal edge of
| his humour disappeared. A shame, because I enjoyed it, but
| seeing his happiness, it's well worth it.
|
| I often try and make people laugh, partly from a feeling of
| inadequacy, but partly the habit set long ago in my abusive
| childhood. Make the particularly unpredictable and dangerous
| parent laugh and you got a few minutes of safety (including
| physical safety). It was a strong motivator to be 'witty'.
| shermantanktop wrote:
| Sarcasm is humor that attempts to invert a power dynamic
| while superficially being an appropriate thing to say. It can
| be defensive and weak.
|
| Luckily the easy defense against sarcasm it take the
| statements at face value. "Oh, really? You wanted to work on
| Saturday? Well, great then."
| chmod600 wrote:
| Not an expert, but it seems to me that sarcasm is a kind of
| universal negativity that can be applied to pretty much
| anything. It's also incredibly vague and ambiguous about
| whether anything better exists or could exist.
|
| For instance, looking at American news, you could
| sarcastically say "Go America!" to almost any story (unless
| it's actually good news, of course). Not only is such sarcasm
| negative, but it's also very passive.
|
| Sarcasm also strikes me as juvenile. Children complain
| because they expect a parent will find a solution for them.
| Juveniles turn to sarcasm because they don't want to ask an
| adult to solve it, but they don't have a solution either.
| Then when they grow up, they realize that problems really do
| need to be solved and no one else will do it, so they need to
| use more productive communication strategies.
| lostlogin wrote:
| > Family told me I was super competitive for no reason and
| tried to win even in simple board games.
|
| It's going to vary between groups, but hyper-competitive board
| gaming is a thing and a good argument over one sentence in a
| rule book can happen without anyone ruining relationships.
| roldie wrote:
| I often recall the Robin Williams quote:
|
| >"I think the saddest people always try their hardest to make
| people happy because they know what it's like to feel absolutely
| worthless and they don't want anyone else to feel like that."
|
| I consider myself funny and am always joking around. However, I
| never felt such strong association with comedians until after
| both of my parents passed in difficult fashions. I felt such a
| strong need to be funny, like it was my only good personality
| trait. I eventually took a standup class. I enjoyed getting on
| stage and working up to my 5 min set. I still write jokes and go
| to open mics every now and then.
|
| The two takeaways I have are:
|
| * the practice of writing everyday was key. Having to articulate
| what was actually upsetting me--instead of just saying "I hate
| this or that"--to find what was funny or absurd about it really
| helped me release a lot of the pent up anger.
|
| * like the quote, making other people laugh was/is so rewarding
| both for my own self-esteem and for knowing that I brought a
| little joy to others
| justinlloyd wrote:
| I have always used humour, proper humour, not sarcasm, in a
| variety of ways. Find the dark humour in a dark situation. Make a
| wise ass remark during a stressful situation. Sometimes the
| humour is inappropriately placed; inappropriately placed but
| still funny. "I had an absolute shit Christmas - I got laid off,
| my dad died, and someone gave me white sport socks. Seriously!?
| Who the hell gives white sport socks as a gift?"
|
| Humour is my armour.
|
| Sometimes my clowning is seen as unprofessional by "serious
| business people" but I honestly don't care to work with those
| kinds of people anyway. I use humour to start conversations with
| people. I make my wife laugh every single day.
|
| "What's up?" I asked as I walked in the bedroom.
|
| "I'm burning up" replies my wife on a cold January evening.
|
| "She's burning up. She wants the world to know. She's so hot
| she'll glow. She's burning up. She wants to know the cause! Maybe
| it's early on-set meno-pause! 'coz she's burning up!"
|
| I'm an introvert.
|
| "Hah!" exclaims someone at the back of the room.
|
| No. Really. I'm an introvert.
|
| I know all the names of the people at Trader Joe's on Sunset. I
| know the names of the people at the Starbucks opposite. I know
| the names of many of the regulars. Many of the people that work
| the stores around the area too. The people at the post office.
| Our regular UPS and Fedex drivers stop to chat. I can tell you
| about their kids, their jobs, their life. They know me too, or
| many of them do. I talk to them all. Ask questions about their
| day.
|
| What you see in-person in front of you at the office, at the
| restaurant, making sure everyone is included, talking to anybody
| I run into, working a room at a networking group, that's not me.
| I put on my Oxford shirt. I put on my black cashmere jacket. I
| pick up my electronic business cards. That's my sword and my
| shield. I step into battle. Face the world. Talk with everyone.
| Make sure they aren't left out. Approach everyone. Show interest.
| Ask questions. When people come together in a social setting, I'm
| usually that single connection between a lot of disparate people.
|
| At a networking meeting where I know nobody to start I will know
| dozens by the end of the night, "Hey Dave, great to make your
| acquaintance! Have you met Jeff? Let me introduce you, he's this
| awesome software developer out of Facebook. You guys should
| talk." A minute ago I didn't know Dave. Fifteen minutes ago I
| didn't know Jeff.
|
| People want to talk about themselves. And nobody knows how to
| break into the conversation. I'm that catalyst. Their ice
| breaker.
|
| "Here, let me find Mike in this crowd, he knows Android stuff, he
| can answer your questions." I know Android stuff too, but let's
| introduce two new people to each other, this isn't about me.
|
| I go home and I close the door and I sigh a sigh of relief that
| it is over and I can just be alone and recharge.
|
| I studied improv and comedy for a few years, had a small side
| career in it too for a while, even appeared in a few Hollywood
| clubs, which sounds more impressive than it really is.
|
| Robin Williams and Steve Martin were teenage heroes of mine. I
| wanted to be like that. That non-stop onslaught of stream of
| conscious pinballing from one comedic observation to another. The
| art of improv isn't that it is all done right there, but that its
| rehearsed, and rather than an entire show, a six course dinner
| served at a fine restaurant like many comedy routines, improv is
| a Chinese buffet where you are elbowing the last words from your
| mouth out of the way to get at the next crunchy morsel your ADD
| brain just leapt too.
|
| There is a scene, where Pam Dawber played by Sarah Murphree in
| the test footage for a biopic tells Robin Williams, played by
| Jamie Costa, "Shut up for a minute, I'm being serious."
|
| When I watched that footage with my wife, she looked at me and
| said "That's you." And I had to apologize to her for having to
| live with that.
|
| Years ago, when I first met my wife, I said "one day, you'll tell
| me to shut up. It'll happen."
|
| "Oh, that'll never happen" said she.
|
| "She wants the world to know, that she's burning up!"
|
| "Shut up for a minute would you? I'm being serious!" she said.
|
| Do I suffer from anxiety and depression? No, actually, I enjoy
| it. Who wouldn't? All those awesome memories flooding back to you
| in vivid detail at 4AM in the morning.
|
| Pain takes away your humanity. Comedy brings it back.
|
| When people ask me how I'm doing I deadpan that I am living the
| American dream, but really, deep down, I'm fine, I'm just a
| little tired that's all.
| imperialdrive wrote:
| I like your style, amigo.
| klyrs wrote:
| Clown reporting for duty... yep. My dad was a funny guy, his
| whole family was funny except his eldest brother who _only_ has
| darkness. He wasn 't as abusive as his dad; we never got the shit
| kicked out of us, but I grew up dealing with some dad-derived-
| darkness. I was always class clown, I continually crack jokes,
| people keep complaining that HN doesn't do humor but jeez, folks,
| 90% of my karma here comes from pithy observational humor.
| (truth: HN hates low-hanging fruit of all varieties, and
| comedians who complain about their audience _suck_ *)
|
| This is something I've been thinking about recently in job-
| hunting. NASA [1] has looked at clowns to evaluate their utility
| in teambuilding -- and no surprise to me, a joker** finds their
| place in high-stress environments. Makes sense to me, because
| I've lived this dynamic and my release valve being stuck open has
| been an incredible social lubricant in my life.
|
| Most people don't know how to let go a little bit: they tend to
| hold it all in until the dam bursts. I don't think I'd have
| survived my childhood with that approach. Jokers like me enter a
| stressful situation, and knock the edge off a little, because
| this is our natural defense to pre-trauma. In a professional
| environment, members of our audience are often unaware of the
| process underway -- jokers hold an umbrella against an unseen
| rain.
|
| But people think they hate comedy! Jokers are seen as unserious,
| unreliable; add to that this stupid stereotype that women can't
| be funny -- I can't put this on my resume, despite it being
| literally my most useful social skill. Yeah, I can knuckle down
| and write code and fix bugs like anybody else, but what I can do
| for social cohesion doesn't get measured. I've even defrayed
| situations between my manager and my skip with a light comment.
| I'm reluctant to crack jokes in an interview because of humor's
| negative perception, but in truth that means I only let the good
| ones slip out.
|
| But what happens after an interview where I have not found a
| single opportunity for levity? Do I want to work for a manager
| who I don't feel comfortable making a joke around?
|
| [1] https://roundupreads.jsc.nasa.gov/roundup/1154
|
| * and yes I do mean latter-day Seinfeld
|
| ** I do prefer the term joker to clown. I've had friends go to
| clown school, I've had friends go to comedian school... "joker"
| doesn't imply any kind of pedigree.
| coldtea wrote:
| A man goes to a doctor. "Doctor, I'm depressed," the man says;
| life is harsh, unforgiving, cruel". The doctor lights up. The
| treatment, after all, is simple. "The great clown Pagliacci is in
| town tonight," the doctor says, "Go and see him! That should sort
| you out. Next!"
|
| The next guy comes in. "Doctor, I have no joy in my life. I'm
| thinking of ending things," he says. The doctor tells him: "The
| great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight," the doctor says, "Go
| and see him! That should sort you out. Next!"
|
| Another guy comes in. "Doctor, please help me. I'm on my wit's
| end. Everything is meaningless since I lost my wife a year ago. I
| can't get off the bed in the morning. I wish I was dead myself".
| The doctor doesn't miss a beat: "The great clown Pagliacci is in
| town tonight," the doctor says, "Go and see him! That should sort
| you out. Next!"
|
| And so on. It's now 7pm and the doctor's office has closed its
| doors. The doctor picks up the phone and dials a number:
|
| "Hello, is Pagliacci there? I'm doctor Greenwald. Tell him the
| tally is 38 people today. I expect my usual 10% cut".
| ukuina wrote:
| A neat twist on the typical ending, wherein the patient sobs:
| "But doctor, I *am* Pagliacci!"
| zoky wrote:
| https://twitter.com/spacetwinks/status/965428890830344193
| ronald_raygun wrote:
| "A moth goes into a podiatrist's office, and the podiatrist's
| office says, "What seems to be the problem, moth?"
|
| The moth says "What's the problem? Where do I begin, man? I go
| to work for Gregory Illinivich, and all day long I work.
| Honestly doc, I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. I don't
| even know if Gregory Illinivich knows. He only knows that he
| has power over me, and that seems to bring him happiness. But I
| don't know, I wake up in a malaise, and I walk here and
| there... at night I...I sometimes wake up and I turn to some
| old lady in my bed that's on my arm. A lady that I once loved,
| doc. I don't know where to turn to. My youngest, Alexendria,
| she fell in the...in the cold of last year. The cold took her
| down, as it did many of us. And my other boy, and this is the
| hardest pill to swallow, doc. My other boy, Gregarro
| Ivinalititavitch... I no longer love him. As much as it pains
| me to say, when I look in his eyes, all I see is the same
| cowardice that I... that I catch when I take a glimpse of my
| own face in the mirror. If only I wasn't such a coward, then
| perhaps...perhaps I could bring myself to reach over to that
| cocked and loaded gun that lays on the bedside behind me and
| end this hellish facade once and for all...Doc, sometimes I
| feel like a spider, even though I'm a moth, just barely hanging
| on to my web with an everlasting fire underneath me. I'm not
| feeling good. And so the doctor says, "Moth, man, you're
| troubled. But you should be seeing a psychiatrist. Why on earth
| did you come here?"
|
| And the moth says, "'Cause the light was on."
| AlbertCory wrote:
| "Clowns are unhappy" is just something people with no sense of
| humor say to feel better about themselves.
|
| Everyone is unhappy about something. I'd rather see it channeled
| into humor than into passive-aggressiveness.
|
| People mention Robin Williams and John Belushi. If you want a
| (fictional) example, take Jerry (or Larry?) from Parks and Rec.
| He was as boringly positive as anyone alive, but he had a
| fantastic family life, and more importantly, I'd bet his kids
| would say, "Dad is really funny!" And most of his "jokes" would
| be silly Dad jokes.
| borski wrote:
| You can have no sense of humor and still be miserable. Humor
| absolutely is a defense mechanism for people who are sad and
| depressed; I know because I have anxiety and depression and am
| funny, and I know why.
|
| But that doesn't mean everyone funny is miserable.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| We have a set inclusion problem here. (People who are
| miserable) does not properly contain (people who are funny).
| They overlap. So we agree.
| borski wrote:
| Yes, but the percentage of funny people skews heavily
| toward those who are miserable. That is to say, the center
| of the Venn diagram is much larger than either of the two
| individual sides.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| Evidence?
| borski wrote:
| Anecdata. I know, not great for a scientific study's
| purposes, but I cannot deny my own experiences either. :)
| carbine wrote:
| as a hilarious person i can confirm this is true
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| As someone who constantly likes to amuse himself by making funny
| (even if only to me) remarks - some of which make their way here
| and get flagged! - it has nothing to do with hiding or coping
| with sadness. I have zero energy for wise cracking if I'm sad.
|
| This article is just more propaganda by dour, humourless bores,
| trying to make out that they - who have no gaiety in their lives
| - are the normal ones, and it's those joking, smiling people that
| are really suffering.
| dang wrote:
| Url changed from https://www.iflscience.com/sad-clown-paradox-
| why-you-should-..., which points to this.
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