[HN Gopher] Permutation City (1994)
___________________________________________________________________
Permutation City (1994)
Author : RafelMri
Score : 392 points
Date : 2024-02-09 11:18 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.gregegan.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.gregegan.net)
| k__ wrote:
| Pretty awesome book.
|
| Would be cool if someone could recommend sci-fi that equally
| good.
| hcarlens wrote:
| Yeah, this book was incredible and the tech in it has aged
| extremely well. Have you tried any of Ted Chiang's books?
| They're also great hard sci-fi. Another one that plays with
| similar ideas to Permutation City is the Bobiverse series by
| Dennis E. Taylor.
| k__ wrote:
| I read Bobiverse which was pretty good, at least I liked all
| but the last book.
|
| Thanks!
| myaccount80 wrote:
| My fav sci-fi books are:
|
| Ubik by Philip K Dick
|
| Dark Matter by Blake Crouch
|
| Recursion by Blake Crouch
|
| Highly recommended
| Weidenwalker wrote:
| If you enjoyed Permutation City, you'd probably also like ,,The
| Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect" by Roger Williams!
|
| It explores a similar premise of a post-singularity future
| (though the mechanism is superintelligence rather than cellular
| automata/mind uploading), but rather than imagining exactly how
| we'd get there, it tries to imagine what human flourishing
| would look like in a world of perfect abundance!
| Cacti wrote:
| Oh, is that the one with the incredibly explicit, and
| incredibly unnecessary, sex based around the authors
| obsession with fucking dead bodies and fucking and
| impregnating his daughter?
|
| I'm very far from a prude, but JFC. Its clearly the authors
| vehicle to play out his fantasies, masquerading as a
| scientific-fi novel.
| gpvos wrote:
| You could try his other writings, such as The Curators,
| which I just finished and can recommend. It has some sex in
| it but much more normal, and the violence is mostly
| abstract (like destroying a planet by teleporting it into
| its star). Available at his website http://localroger.com/
| .
| Cacti wrote:
| Thanks for the rec, but my issue is less with the book
| and more with the author. And his non-existent editor.
| MattPalmer1086 wrote:
| Not sure we are talking about the same book here. It's
| certainly quite twisted, with people taking out death
| contracts that allow them to die painfully (but they are
| ressurected by the godlike AI every time). There's also
| torture and other unsavoury things.
|
| To me, this was not unnecessary, but quite fundamental to
| the story. Everyone was trapped by the AI who would not let
| anyone come to harm without their permission anyway, and
| nobody could die. Various people tried to push back against
| these constraints in creative but disturbing ways.
| Cacti wrote:
| I was going to post the final few pages of the book here
| as one example, but it's way more graphic than I
| remembered, so I won't.
|
| But nothing at all was served by us reading about how
| deftly the main characters 13 year old daughter blew him
| until he was hard enough to ride. Or the main characters
| musings about their two (very underage) children having
| sex and how he was totally ok with it. Or the long
| section about the wife urging him to impregnate his
| daughter. Or the other dozen weird-ass things in that
| chapter.
|
| There's several more examples like this in the book.
|
| The author is not exactly the first to explore potential
| consequences of effective immortality, but they are one
| of the few who was seemingly unable to do it without
| repeatedly getting to multi-page, graphic, and violent,
| sex scenes.
|
| Like, if one feels the need for that kind of thing,
| William S Burroughs and Tom Wolfe already beat that one
| to death decades ago.
|
| As another example more relevant to this crowd, Altered
| Carbon covered the exact same subject matter, and did so
| without needing to write smut for teenage boys.
| MattPalmer1086 wrote:
| I confess I had forgotten the very end, where they are
| trying to rebuild the human race with a limited pool of
| people. It definitely did not need to be that graphic,
| although it is somewhat in keeping with the generally
| disturbing themes throughout.
|
| Nevertheless, I enjoyed it as something very different to
| the usual sci fi fare.
|
| I also liked Altered Carbon, although I found it read
| more like a hyper violent blockbuster action movie than a
| novel. Other than they both use ressurection as a plot
| device, they are very different stories. The violence in
| it I actually find more gratuitous than in Metamorphosis
| of Prime Intellect.
| Cacti wrote:
| Oh, I was referring to the books, not the Netflix series.
|
| I enjoyed Prime Intellect, but I enjoyed it like a
| mindless action film or a trashy beach book, and I'd
| never actually recommend it to anyone.
| iainmerrick wrote:
| It's an oldie (1977), but plays with some similar ideas and I
| think it really holds up: _The Ophiuchi Hotline_ by John
| Varley.
| G3rn0ti wrote:
| > Would be cool if someone could recommend sci-fi that equally
| good.
|
| You could consider ,,Diaspora" by the same author a good sequel
| a couple of thousands of years into the future where humanity
| is but a faint memory called ,,dream apes" as living fossils in
| this story.
| k__ wrote:
| That sounds cool.
|
| Thanks!
| nyssos wrote:
| > where humanity is but a faint memory called ,,dream apes"
| as living fossils in this story.
|
| Dream apes are the descendants of an extreme primitivist
| subculture, the "statics" the protagonists visit at the
| beginning are baseline humans.
| Frotag wrote:
| Been asking myself the same question for months.
|
| So Egan's stories are basically a mathy whodunit -- start from
| first (fictional) principles and eventually solve some
| universe-scale question or crisis. His characters are basically
| walking textbooks meant for info dumping / FAQing the
| derivations.
|
| In that light, some similar stories I've found are...
| - Dragon's Egg (Robert Forward) - Of Ants and Dinosaurs
| (Liu Cixin, 3 body problem author) - The Andromeda
| Strain (Crichton, more medsci than math) - Schilds
| Ladder, Diaspora (other Egan stuff)
|
| The first two are especially similar to Egan's stuff in that
| the only real character is the civilization / setting not the
| people.
|
| I've also tried some of the more common hard scifi
| recommendations like Reynolds and Stephenson, but I personally
| don't enjoy the dialogue / scenes meant for character
| development. I guess it's because the stories usually take a
| human-scale perspective instead of taking a what-if to its
| reality-bending extreme like Egan does.
| k__ wrote:
| Hm... I didn't like Cixin or Crichton.
| yencabulator wrote:
| You should try the old master, Hal Clement. Mission of
| Gravity is a classic "start from first principles" story.
| cdogl wrote:
| It's not an easy read, but Blindsight by Peter Watts has some
| equally unique and compelling synthesis of scientific concepts
| into a big concept plot.
| bejd wrote:
| Blindsight hit all the right hard sci-fi notes for me. I've
| yet to find something that scratches that same itch.
| paul80808 wrote:
| Second this recommendation. Blindsight hits much harder and
| faster than Egan - and in my opinion the writing is much
| tighter. Similar focus on science-based idea exploration,
| particularly in regards to theories of consciousness, brain
| structure, probability, and vampires. If you like Egan I'd
| be shocked if you didn't like watts. He is one of the
| hidden gems of science fiction and an absolute gift to
| humanity.
| gpderetta wrote:
| Blindsight is his best book, but Watts has written a lot of
| great stuff, I recommend all of Rifters and, for something a
| bit different, especially the Sunflowers cycle.
| badcppdev wrote:
| Standard internet Watts warning that the Rift novels have
| random sexual torture just in case you prefer to avoid that
| gpderetta wrote:
| Right, yes, especially the last Rifter book made me
| wonder a bit about the sanity of the author.
| k__ wrote:
| I read the acknowledgements in some of his books and
| found him rather dislikeable.
| caskstrength wrote:
| You might want to read his blog [0] to get more insight
| into his character. I got the impression that the author
| is a great and likeable human being that became rather
| cynical due to his disillusionment with humanity.
|
| [0]: https://www.rifters.com/crawl/
| k__ wrote:
| Haha, I already read Blindsight
| davely wrote:
| Oh, boy. Blindsight was a book that made me realize that
| maybe I like the _idea_ of hard sci-fi more than I actually
| like reading it.
| mvdtnz wrote:
| Blindsight is by no means a hard sci fi book.
| davely wrote:
| Hah, well then, maybe I just don't like vampires!
|
| In all seriousness, I thought I had seen it in a list of
| "top hard sci-fi books" awhile back and a quick Kagi
| search seems to imply that a lot of people seem consider
| it hard sci-fi for whatever reason.
|
| Maybe this means there's still a chance for me.
| MeImCounting wrote:
| Somebody will always say something like this on any
| thread anywhere on the internet about any sci-fi. I dont
| know whats so attractive about gatekeeping "hard scifi"
| but it must be satisfying since so many people feel
| compelled to do so.
|
| Regardless Blindsight is a good book and definitely has
| interesting concepts and good writing throughout.
| matkoniecz wrote:
| I think that Blindsight was extremely on
| depressing/grimderp/evil side.
|
| I really like hard SF and will never again read by this
| author.
|
| > Standard internet Watts warning that the Rift novels have
| random sexual torture just in case you prefer to avoid that
|
| in thread next to this one is not really surprising me
|
| Also, not really sure is Blindsight actually hard SF. It
| seems to be soft one at most with a lot getting close to
| magic with SF styling.
| MeImCounting wrote:
| Maybe we read totally different books called "Blindsight"
| by Peter Watts because this sounds like a completely
| different experience than what I and most other readers
| have had.
| matkoniecz wrote:
| The one with sort-of-vampires with epileptic effects
| triggered by corners, creatures capable of movement
| starting and completing in way their movement was not
| noticeable by human brain and curiously trusting people
| in way that ended in predictable bad ending?
| MeImCounting wrote:
| Yeah the crucifix glitch is kind of silly though it does
| have an internally consistent explanation. I feel like
| maybe you didnt read the notes and references (complete
| with citations)? Because otherwise you would know this?
|
| Was the ending actually bad? like badly written or bad
| for the characters? Personally I thought the ending was
| good. It felt inevitable and also positive. Humanity got
| to keep living and the main character reached some type
| of personal growth.
|
| Anyway heres the section from the notes and references
| that you must not have read about the "creatures capable
| of movement - not noticeable by the human brain"
|
| For example, the invisibility trick of that young, dumb
| scrambler-- the one who restricted its movement to the
| gaps in Human vision-- occured to me while reading about
| something called inattentional blindness. A Russian guy
| called Yarbus was the first to figure out the whole
| saccadal glitch in Human vision, back in the nineteen
| sixties15. Since then, a variety of researchers have made
| objects pop in and out of the visual field unnoticed,
| conducted conversations with hapless subjects who never
| realised that their conversational partner had changed
| halfway through the interview, and generally proven that
| the Human brain just fails to notice an awful lot of
| what's going on around it16, 17, 18. Check out the demos
| at the website of the Visual Cognition Lab at the
| University of Illinois19 and you'll see what I mean. This
| really is rather mind-blowing, people. There could be
| Scientologists walking among us right now and if they
| moved just right, we'd never even see them.
| zeekaran wrote:
| Semi related: If you like The Thing (1982), Watts' The Things
| is pretty great:
| https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/watts_01_10/
| goatlover wrote:
| Brilliant fan fiction that takes a few liberties, but it
| would be interesting to have The Thing's perspective if The
| Thing was made into a series. I think in the movies was
| just supposed to be cosmic horror who's only real goal was
| to survive by spreading. Communicating with it would be
| pointless, unlike in Watt's story, where you have a
| fundamental philosophical difference based on The Thing's
| understanding of biology, but you could at least have a
| meaningful conversation with it.
| asymmetric wrote:
| One thing you can try when looking for similar books to one you
| liked, is to check Library Thing:
| https://www.librarything.com/work/18880
|
| In my non-scientific assessment, it's better than GoodReads.
| spiralx wrote:
| Stephen Baxter's books are along the same lines, start with one
| of these:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelike_Infinity
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_(Baxter_novel)
| gpderetta wrote:
| The only think I have read of Baxter is his short story Last
| Contact[1], but I still think about it very often. Reading
| the Xeele sequence is in my todo list.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Contact
| prepend wrote:
| Completely different style but I think Altered Carbon by
| Richard K Morgan introduces lots of new ideas and interacts
| with them realistically.
|
| The first season of the show was good but very different than
| the book.
| sorokod wrote:
| The Netflix version is a diluted version of a rough and angry
| book. The idea of consciousness executed in hardware is
| explored, including simulated torture in subjective slow time
| (possibly in one of the sequels: Broken Angels or Woken
| Furies).
| prepend wrote:
| I think they also changed the societal and cultural aspects
| quite a bit. In the book, everything was accepted and there
| were weren't any "downtrodden." The show changed all this
| with the meths being super billionaires and then there
| being lots of poor people. And the whole thing with the
| rebellion.
|
| Book takashi was an envoy super spy person with immense
| training that stuck with him through sleeves. Tv takashi is
| like a rebel/terrorist who just got some training and has
| personality.
|
| In the book, it was fruitless to fight against the
| government because what's the point? The tv show seems to
| want to make a more simple rebels vs big brother.
|
| Still cool, but I think changed the flavor quite a bit.
|
| Second season, of course, is rubbish and I wouldn't
| recommend watching it to anyone. It's suspiciously horrible
| given how good the first was.
| sorokod wrote:
| Not sure about "it was fruitless to fight against the
| government because what's the point", a rebellion is a
| worthwhile thing in itself. "Make it personal" [1] is
| almost a call to arms.
|
| [1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/169549-the-personal-
| as-ever...
| PBnFlash wrote:
| If you can handle the science changing since publication in the
| 1930s(!!!) Olaf Stapledon is simply remarkable. "Last and first
| men" is one of my favorite books for just how unique it is, but
| "star maker" has some interesting parallels
| ArekDymalski wrote:
| Let me share several books that brought me a similar level of
| awe, due to the scope and creativity of the world-building:
|
| 1. Accelerando by Charles Stross - for THE Scope.
|
| 2. Quantum Thief by Hanny Rajaniemi - for the similarly high
| entry threshold and rewarding experience when you cross it.
|
| 3. Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds - for a fascinating
| vision of future human societies.
|
| I'd be happy to find more books like these.
| yboris wrote:
| _Accelerando_ is amazing; see it being recommended several
| times in this post!
| gpderetta wrote:
| I enjoyed pretty much everything from cstross and Reynolds
| (pushing ice and especially house of suns are great stand
| alone).
|
| I enjoyed quantum thief but somehow I have yet to go beyond
| the first book.
| mietek wrote:
| I read and enjoyed these quite a bit, so let me add a few
| more to the list.
|
| - "The Fall Revolution" tetralogy by Ken MacLeod: "The Star
| Fraction", "The Stone Canal", "The Cassini Division", and
| "The Sky Road"
|
| - "Void Star" by Zachary Mason
|
| - "Singularity Sky" by Charles Stross
|
| - "The Freeze-Frame Revolution" by Peter Watts
|
| - "Perfekcyjna niedoskonalosc" by Jacek Dukaj
|
| - "A Fire Upon the Deep" and "A Deepness in the Sky" by
| Vernor Vinge
|
| - "The Golden Oecumene" trilogy by John C. Wright: "The
| Golden Age", "The Phoenix Exultant", and "The Golden
| Transcendence"
|
| - "Gnomon" by Nick Harkaway
|
| - the Culture novels by Iain M. Banks
| marginrabbit wrote:
| People have already mentioned qntm, but I'll put another plug
| in for "Valuable Humans in Transit" https://qntm.org/vhitaos
|
| Sol Quy with monthly short stories:
| https://solquy.substack.com/p/111123-the-gunslinger
|
| Adrian Tchaikovsky's "Children of Time" series is fantastic.
|
| Vernor Vinge can be a bit variable, but I would start with "A
| Fire Upon the Deep"
| zeekaran wrote:
| Children of Time is great. Children of Ruin was a lot of fun,
| but I was convinced by friends Children of Memory wasn't
| worth it.
| ohlookcake wrote:
| Children of Memory is my favourite in the series! If you
| liked the first two (#1 was significantly better imo), you
| should 100% go for the third
| sat0ri wrote:
| Have you read Gibson's "Sprawl" and "Bridge" trilogies? I read
| them > ten years ago and haven't read any sci-fi since, these
| books kinda put a subconscious "it does not get better, better
| diversify into other genres" attitude into my brain and
| personally I'm OK with that. Was reading a lot of sci-fi before
| that.
| _dain_ wrote:
| Novella, free to read: _The Epiphany of Gliese 581_
|
| https://borretti.me/fiction/eog581
|
| > _A linguist, a chemist, and a comparative psychologist
| explore the ruins of a dead superintelligence._
| VikingCoder wrote:
| Yup, I enjoy this book.
|
| If you enjoy it, too, might I recommend Fool's War by Sarah
| Zettel. It's more of a Space Opera, but some similar themes to
| Permutation City pop up in it...
| surprisetalk wrote:
| My book review from last September:
|
| _> Reads like a "consciousness and computers are cool" story
| written by an engineer. A few incredible ideas padded by weak
| storytelling and philosophical exposition. Probably would've been
| better as a short story._
|
| [0] https://taylor.town/books#permutation-city
|
| If you like this book, I recommend _Accelerando_ , _Piranesi_ ,
| Dick's _Ubik_ , and Ted Chiang's collections.
| Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
| Glad to see Ubik mentioned. While far from unknown, it
| typically takes a back seat to other works by Dick, and IMHO
| it's the absolute best. It is unsettling in a way comparable,
| although different, to Kafka.
| surprisetalk wrote:
| Agreed. Speaking of underrated works from cyberpunk authors,
| you may be interested in William Gibson's non-fiction essay
| collection _Distrust That Particular Flavor_. My hot take: I
| think Gibson 's non-fiction is much stronger than his
| fiction.
|
| EDIT: Ooh, that collection includes _Disneyland with the
| Death Penalty_ : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_wit
| h_the_Death_Pena...
| mandmandam wrote:
| > My hot take: I think Gibson's non-fiction is much
| stronger than his fiction.
|
| Wow, that's spicy.
|
| Will def check those out though.
| surprisetalk wrote:
| Here's an even spicier take:
|
| Although less prescient, _Seveneves_ was a better read
| than _Cryptonomicon_.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Let's hope it is less prescient. If it isn't... global
| warming will be the least of our problems.
| ianmcgowan wrote:
| You shut your mouth! :-)
|
| Actually, if you said the first 2/3 of Seveneves was a
| better read than Cryptonomicon, then maybe..
| edanm wrote:
| I'll have to disagree on this one. I'm a big Phillip K. Dick
| fan, and have read _many_ of his works (though it 's been a
| while), but I found Ubik to be a slog and didn't really enjoy
| it.
|
| To anyone reading this - I'm not saying don't read it - it's
| a beloved book! I'm just saying, if you read it and don't
| enjoy it, keep in mind that you might be like me and enjoy
| his other stuff more.
| riffraff wrote:
| I'm with you on this, I liked the ideas in Ubik, but I
| found it really hard to go through it compared to other
| Dick works, but of course everyone is different.
| gpvos wrote:
| I liked the expansion of the ideas. I was bored a couple of
| times so it could be compressed a bit into maybe a novella half
| the size of the book, but a short story would have left me
| wanting.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Why Piranesi? Seems more straight up fantasy.
| surprisetalk wrote:
| To me, the main distinction between fantasy and sci-fi is
| world-building vs. idea-exploration.
|
| This book feels more like the deep exploration of a cool
| idea, which is why I'm recommending it in this context :)
| brookst wrote:
| Piranesi is fantasy the way Kafka is fantasy. Which is to
| say, kinda, if you squint. But mostly it's allegorical.
| alexpotato wrote:
| I read Accelerando recently and it's great.
|
| Hard to believe that it was written in 2005 given the one scene
| where the main character is walking around generating multiple
| interlocking crypto contracts to store money for his daughter.
| gpderetta wrote:
| Yes, very prescient. Also the VR glasses with embedded AI and
| independent subagents seems almost something that you could
| build today.
| cstross wrote:
| It was _published_ in 2005 -- actually I wrote the 9
| novelettes that went into it from 1998-2003 (they were
| originally published in Asimov 's SF magazine from 2002-2004
| before I assembled and rewrote them to make the book).
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| Blew my mind in the best way. Thank you.
|
| There's a line in there that feels like it could pop up in
| a permutation city sequel:
|
| > ... running a timing channel attack on the computational
| ultrastructure of spacetime itself, trying to break through
| to whatever's underneath...
|
| Does that idea come up anywhere else in your work? If so,
| I'd go read it.
| shabble wrote:
| _Scratch Monkey_ may have some vague notions along those
| lines, if I remember rightly: https://www.antipope.org/ch
| arlie/fiction/monkey/index.html
| alexpotato wrote:
| Not going to lie, getting a comment from THE AUTHOR of a
| book I greatly enjoyed is now one of the highlights of my
| 10+ years of being on HN!
|
| I should add: every time I hear the phrase "state vector" I
| think of Accelerando.
| yboris wrote:
| Thank you for your work! Last time I praised _Accelerando_
| on HN you commented that I should read _The Rapture of the
| Nerds_. I read it shortly after and loved it!
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rapture_of_the_Nerds
| NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
| No one reads Greg Egan for the character building or any of
| that other literary bullshit.
|
| This is the novel that introduces the idea that a simulation
| universe need not have another universe simulating it. Hell,
| it's the only novel that has that idea. There is more insight
| here than we could extract from a thousand other authors,
| philosophers, and thinkers. But who cares, the characters were
| sort of cardboard and he has the whole r/menwritingwomen thing
| going on.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Neal Stephensons Anathem is also based on these same ideas-
| specifically the concepts of timeless physics, and the idea
| that mathematical and physical existence are identical.
| NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
| Thanks. I'll put that one on my reading list. Haven't read
| but one of his before.
| marcellus23 wrote:
| Anathem is, I think, Stephenson's best book. Definitely
| worth checking out.
| ianmcgowan wrote:
| 'The Diamond Age' is my favorite, but perhaps because
| it's one of the rare Stephenson's that sticks the
| landing. Anathem is amazing, and worth reading just for
| the parable of the fly-worm-bat...
| marcellus23 wrote:
| The Diamond Age is my next-favorite after Anathem. Both
| are excellent books.
| savingsPossible wrote:
| read the two, had not connected the dots. Thanks!
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| I also recommend the non-fiction physics book "The End of
| Time" by Julian Barbour. It explains these ideas
| directly, and inspired Stephenson to write Anathem.
|
| Weirdly, I happened to be reading all 3 of these around
| the same time, not initially realizing they were
| connected.
| zupatol wrote:
| I justs finished reading the book and the idea that a
| simulation universe need not have another universe simulating
| it indeed baffled me. How do you make sense of that? I was
| disappointed there wasn't a clearer motivation for it.
| NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
| > How do you make sense of that?
|
| Chew on it for awhile. It's worth it. The explanation
| provided was sparse, but sufficient to justify.
| AgentME wrote:
| (spoiler warning for others!)
|
| Durham's "dust theory" is basically that every possible
| universe is simulated an infinite number of times across
| space and time within our universe as Boltzmann brains (he
| doesn't call them this but his idea of random bits of dust
| randomly computing things is equivalent), so actually
| running a simulation containing mind uploads on a computer
| ourselves is unnecessary to allow consciousness to exist
| within the simulation.
|
| Durham describes the theory with a few more steps, like his
| idea of "launching" which I can't help but think Maria is
| correct in calling unnecessary. I think the story is trying
| to communicate that Durham's theory is subtly wrong or
| incomplete, especially when the surprising event happens at
| the end. I think the explanation for the surprising event
| at the end is (heavier spoilers ahead!) that there's a mix
| of Boltzmann brains running two different versions of
| Permutation City (one where Permutation City and the A-life
| universe are artificial simulations with arbitrary
| complicated physics and starting states exactly as we saw
| them be designed within the story, and one where the A-life
| universe is natural with a simple unified underlying
| physics and starting state and Permutation City is an
| artificial simulation/construct within it with a
| complicated starting state) which have been running in
| parallel and producing equivalent conscious experience, but
| by the end of the story, the latter version of Permutation
| City is simpler and therefore simulated in proportionally
| more Boltzmann brains than the first version. The latter
| version exists more, so when the conscious experiences of
| these two versions of Permutation City finally diverge, the
| story follows the latter version.
|
| (I'm pretty confident in this reading of it. The story
| makes a regular point in talking about the complexity of
| the artificial simulations containing mind uploads and how
| much they're unlike the simple unified physics of our
| world. The point is brought up in a way as if the author or
| characters expect it to have significance; the surprising
| event at the end of the story is this point's significance
| finally being seen.)
| goatlover wrote:
| By more insight do you mean pure speculation? I could say Liu
| Cixin has more insight than a thousand other minds with his
| Dark Forest and dimensionality, but again it's all
| speculative fiction.
|
| Also, some people actually like well-written characters. I
| know it sounds strange.
| caskstrength wrote:
| > If you like this book, I recommend Accelerando, Piranesi,
| Dick's Ubik, and Ted Chiang's collections.
|
| Thanks for the recommendations. I read and liked most of the
| books in your list, so I'll likely also appreciate the ones I
| haven't.
|
| EDIT: I would also recommend Watts' Blindsight.
| brookst wrote:
| Blindsight is such an underrated gem.
| rollulus wrote:
| I loved this book. It's the sort of book that made me
| occasionally pause and think about the ideas presented in it.
| Boltzmann brains still fascinate me. The spot market for CPU
| power was visionary. When reading it again when I was older I
| only found the characters a bit weak.
| NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
| > Boltzmann brains still fascinate me.
|
| It's ok. You fascinate them too.
| vagab0nd wrote:
| > The spot market for CPU power was visionary.
|
| Absolutely. Not to mention the use of proof of work, just 2
| years after the idea was actually proposed. Very ahead of its
| time.
| patchtopic wrote:
| A timeless classic.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| I see what you did there
| gmuslera wrote:
| If you like this one Diaspora seem to have extrapolated some of
| this ideas and went several step further (and then added much
| more), and Zendegi that is a lot more modest in extrapolation and
| tries to be more realistic (and emotional).
|
| He have also a lot of mindblowing short stories. The collection
| I've read by him was Axiomatic, that had many great ones.
| cdogl wrote:
| Egan is the only great Australian science fiction writer I'm
| aware of. I principally recommend Diaspora for far future post-
| human history with a strong focus on physics and maths, and
| Quarantine which is a sort of heist thriller with a unique
| quantum physics hook in a relatively near future Northern
| Australia setting where First Nations people have gained
| independence and positioned themselves as an Asian financial /
| biotech hub.
|
| Egan's prose, characterisation and plotting are often weak, but
| almost every page has a new creative concept.
| anileated wrote:
| Egan's Diaspora is a strong book that I'd definitely recommend
| to hardcore sci-fi lovers.
| andyjohnson0 wrote:
| > Egan's prose, characterisation and plotting are often weak,
| but almost every page has a new creative concept.
|
| I agree with all of that. I was thinking recently about how
| Egan compares to Neal Stephenson after some discussion of his
| (NS) fiction here a few days ago [1]. They both (imo) are weak
| at characterisation etc. - but to me Egan's work is among some
| of the best sf I've ever read [1], wheras I find reading
| Stephenson an ordeal. I think that's down to the depth of the
| ideas that Egan explores, but I'd be interested in what others
| think of how he compares to other authors.
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39287616
|
| [2] _Permutation City_. _Diaspora_ , short works in collections
| like _Luninous_ , etc.
| ahartmetz wrote:
| IMO, Egan's prose and plotting are not notably bad.
| Characters are probably his weakest point. Plus, Egan knows
| when to stop rambling, or rather, he doesn't ramble. As
| opposed to the other guy.
| hmahncke wrote:
| Greg Egan as great! Two other Australians you might try are:
|
| Terra Nullius by Claire G. Coleman, about what it's like to be
| colonized.
|
| Souls in the Great Machine by Sean McMullen, about what it's
| like to be part of a computer.
| googamooga wrote:
| Thank you so much for recommending both authors! I'm a huge
| fan of Egan and would really appreciate to explore the
| Australian sci-fi scene more.
| cstross wrote:
| Also worth noting is the work of the late George Turner (d.
| 1997), notably _The Sea and Summer_ and _Beloved Son_.
| mycologos wrote:
| _Diaspora_ is my favorite Egan book. _Permutation City_ seems
| to get talked about more, but the dust theory stuff just felt
| implausible, and it has one of the worst sex scenes I 've ever
| read. Maybe it's because _Diaspora_ is less concerned with
| anything as abstract as consciousness and more interested in
| how different forms of life play out, which I find fun when it
| 's done well.
| 75th wrote:
| The sex in that sex scene is supposed to be cringingly bad.
| Supposed to be uncomfortable to read. Did you think it was
| poorly done, or was it just _too_ uncomfortable-on-purpose?
| adamgordonbell wrote:
| Big Fan of Egan's short stories. I feel like they are his
| strongest work and maybe because they can lean more on ideas.
| Luminous about math grad students discovering some secrets in
| math is pretty great.
|
| Wang's Carpets which became Diaspora is mind blowing.
|
| Zendegi is an interesting novel by him I never see anyone
| mention. I enjoyed it and the characters are a bit more
| developed. It also has a Eliezer Yudkowsky stand in as the big
| bad guy i seem to recall. Which made me chuckle.
| badcppdev wrote:
| I think of Zendegi quite often when I think about the debates
| surrounding digital companions, etc. I don't think the book
| had great commercial success.
| edanm wrote:
| I'm a big fan of Egan, having read a few of his books and a
| bunch of short stories. Personally, Zendegi was the weakest
| of his books by quite a bit. (Still good, just... not great.)
| gpderetta wrote:
| My standards are likely lower than yours, but while agree that
| his characterization is not the strongest, I do like his prose
| and plotting.
| admissionsguy wrote:
| > Egan's prose, characterisation and plotting are often weak
|
| I sort of agree, but personally I like the rawness of it. For a
| similarly unrefined yet intellectually stimulating writing,
| check out Gregory Benford who used to be a professor of
| physics.
| prepend wrote:
| I've liked every Egan book I read but also want to mention
| Distress. I got shipped it accidentally when I ordered Diaspora
| and the seller told me to keep it.
|
| It's set in the "near future" so probably 2020 since it was
| published in 1998 and does a good job, I think, of talking
| about things that are happening now- third world empowerment,
| body augmentation, transgenders, precision pharmacy,
| biohacking.
|
| And some things we don't have yet- artificial island nations,
| self-autists, custom engineered plagues.
|
| I like it because it's one of those books that stuck with me
| for describing tech that "we should and one day will have" in
| that Egan described a "pharm" that compounds medication on the
| fly to precisely medicate us. For example, it will give you
| stimulants with your vitamix but have to counter it the next
| day based on how your body performs. I can't wait for that and
| hate having to wait days to adjust meds. I feel similarly about
| Stephenson's metaverse description and young lady's illustrated
| primer, and nanodrones, and cryptocurrency. And Doctorow's
| "comm" device that he described a few years before the iPhone.
| cdogl wrote:
| Distress also has a short passage explaining the collapse of
| the collapse of CBDs and inflation of the suburban property
| market and cost of living due to remote work, set in an area
| of suburban Sydney that's now not far off Egan's predictions.
| Few hard science fiction authors of recent decades can pull
| that off, as the 21st century has shown that our 20th century
| science fiction tropes are either already here (computing and
| networking revolution, hydrogen bombs, DNA sequencing) or
| will likely not materialise for centuries (space
| colonisation, mind uploading). Egan has a talent for
| speculating about little details of life that illustrate a
| very different world.
| mvdtnz wrote:
| Egan is prolific and his quality is quite uneven. I loved
| Permutation City, Diaspora and Dichronauts (although the latter
| had a weak story). But other books like Scale and Phoresis are
| downright bad. It's so hard to pick which Egan books to read
| because often the ones that sound the most interesting are the
| worst.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| Going back a while, but I really enjoyed The Resurrected Man by
| Sean Williams.
|
| I have a few other books of his, some seem sci-fi, some seem
| fantasy, but haven't read them yet.
|
| Seems he's not been idle:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Williams_(author)
| jharohit wrote:
| Greg Egan is an acquired taste of hard SF. I would highly
| recommend someone who wants to get in to start here - it is short
| stories and some of his very best. Also one of my best cover of
| sci fi books
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Best-Greg-Egan-Stories-Science/dp/194...
| adamgordonbell wrote:
| Agreed. He's strongest I'm his short stories. I have two
| collections of them.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| (1994)
| ajuc wrote:
| It's great classical sci-fi. Reminds me of Lem, Watts, Dukaj.
| Ideas and science matters more than special effects, action and
| characters.
| peniswobbler wrote:
| Just finished it! It's so good.
| Doches wrote:
| Fun to see this on HN today; I just finished it last night, on a
| recommendation from a friend. It was great, and left me full of
| unfinished thoughts -- just what you want from a good SF yarn.
|
| For folks who enjoyed the ideas in it I can heartily recommend
| qntm's short story Lena (https://qntm.org/lena), which explores
| some of the same ideas but with a hefty dollop of (implied, but
| all the more intense for it) psychological horror.
| joshmarlow wrote:
| That's a great short story. The clinical ambience of it's
| description really amps it up. Real Black Mirror stuff.
|
| I haven't read Permutation City (on my list) but I _really_
| enjoyed Disaspora by the same author (Greg Egan). Similar
| themes from what I gather.
| gattr wrote:
| More specifically, in _Permutation City_ mind uploading is in
| its infancy, while in _Diaspora_ it 's a run-of-the-mill
| tech.
|
| I'll add _Schild 's Ladder_ to the recommendations.
| dzikimarian wrote:
| On the side note - most of qntm's works have these small,
| interesting ideas behind them - really satisfying to read.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| Egan's "Instantiation" series of short stories is also probably
| up a similar alley - available in his collection of the same
| name.
| edanm wrote:
| Can confirm - I'm a huge fan of Greg Egan and specifically
| Permutation city, and also a huge fan of qntm's stories. Lena
| is probably the most famous, though not even the best ("I don't
| know Timmy" is better IMO).
|
| Also, I finally read qntm's Antimemetics division and, while it
| is a bit lacking in the end, it is one of the most "oh wow this
| is a crazy good idea" stories I've read in years.
| zeekaran wrote:
| Make sure to read Ra as well. One of my favorite webfics.
| https://qntm.org/ra
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| It's one of my favorite webfics too, so I got a hardcover:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Ra-qntm/dp/B096TRWRWX
|
| Have this in my personal library as well as a (paperback)
| of Permutation City. I think it's awesome they're published
| online but there's something special about having it in
| print too.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| I just read the Antimemetics division and qntm's short
| story collection. I loved the short stories and first
| ~40-60% of the Antimemetics Division and felt it then got
| too crazy and abstract. The "magic is real" thing has new
| worried as I usually avoid fantasy. Do you think I'll still
| like Ra?
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| I read Ra and I loved it, but it's imperfect. It could
| use an editor.
|
| Antimemetics, being SCP-related, comes with a hefty
| dollop of magical realism.
|
| Ra, to me, felt like a rocket ride as new ideas, twists,
| and exponentially escalating stakes get thrown at you.
| The pacing is very jerky, and I can very much understand
| if people just nope halfway through.
|
| In particular, the characters... suck (my apologies, Sam)
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Characters sucking is a common complaint about hard scifi
| which I can very much live with and am used to. Thank
| you!
| lxgr wrote:
| It's as far away from fantasy as magic can probably be. I
| think you might like it!
|
| In some ways, it's even less fantastical than
| antimemetics, think magic as a sub-branch of advanced
| physics and in no way mystical.
| grfhtsdfvv wrote:
| Thank you for this link, I'm really enjoying it.
| lukifer wrote:
| While if didn't hook me as quickly as Antimemetics or Ra, I
| also thoroughly enjoyed Fine Structure:
| https://qntm.org/structure
| Vetch wrote:
| I'd also wager that "I don't know Timmy" is more thematically
| related. I feel most of the discussion in this thread glosses
| over what is most unsettling about Permutation City. It isn't
| just a book about what it could be like to be a simulated
| mind, it's most deeply about exploring the disquieting
| metaphysical consequences of computable minds. I can't think
| of a story that has as thoroughly scattered my basic grasp of
| reality as this one. Only Blindsight even begins to comes
| close.
|
| In "I don't know Timmy" there's a sequence that goes:
|
| _" Well, we can't exactly turn it off."_
|
| _" Why not?" asked Tim, halfway to the door, then stopped
| mid-stride and stood still, realising._
|
| _" Oh."_
|
| But you _can_ turn it off without consequence and Permutation
| City explores the disturbing implications of why thoroughly
| (with a deus ex machina ending to save causal physics, as
| expected of an Egan story, physics is what has plot armor).
| edanm wrote:
| > I can't think of a story that has as thoroughly scattered
| my basic grasp of reality as this one. Only Blindsight even
| begins to comes close.
|
| Absolutely! Very few books have also basically changed my
| philosophical outlook on something as much as this has (I
| had the seeds of the idea before the book, but the book
| really cemented specific concepts around computation and
| thought/consciousness/identity even mean).
|
| Another book that is fairly different, but has had a big
| impact on some of my views of things, is the Three Body
| Problem trilogy (specifically the second and third book).
| ajmurmann wrote:
| > But you can turn it off without consequence and
| Permutation City explores the disturbing implications of
| why thoroughly
|
| Can you turn it off? The entire universe is 100%
| deterministic and the "stack" of universes in question is
| based on the same seed data. So if you decide to turn the
| n+1 simulation off, the same decision will be made in the
| n-1 universe. The simulation isn't running on some self-
| replicating automaton like in Permutation City. Of course
| the universe being 100% deterministic also poses the
| question if you can "decide" to do anything, since all
| decisions are already made.
| Severian wrote:
| I got a copy of the Antimemetics division too after a read
| through on SCP wiki. Well worth getting a physical copy to
| support the author.
|
| qntm is becoming one of my favorite authors as well.
| edanm wrote:
| IIRC I bought it on Kindle for similar reasons.
| wishfish wrote:
| Just curious if it repeatedly crashed your Kindle? My
| Kindle (Oasis 2nd gen) was very unhappy with the
| "redacted" black bars. When a page was full of them, the
| Kindle just gave up.
| yencabulator wrote:
| Better link to read (same story, not the first draft):
| https://qntm.org/mmacevedo
| schubart wrote:
| Fantastic read, thanks both of you for sharing this.
| maxglute wrote:
| Good read, feels like it should be structured as an academic
| paper with made up bibliographies.
| lloeki wrote:
| Ah, I was thinking of https://qntm.org/responsibility all along
| the story, and completely forgot about
| https://qntm.org/mmacevedo (of which lena is the draft)
| peniswobbler wrote:
| I just finished it. It's extraordinary. It's awesome. It goes way
| beyond ideas I'd seen half assedly developed before.
| pranay01 wrote:
| Just finished reading Exhalation by Ted Chiang, and can't
| recommend it enough. It's a collection of short stories - so easy
| entry point for beginners as well.
| SamBam wrote:
| I love Ted Chiang, and enjoyed _Exhalation_ , but personally I
| would recommend _Stories of Your Life and Others_ as the first
| book of short stories. I found it had a higher percentage of
| home runs.
| x86x87 wrote:
| To me anything I've read from Ted Chiang is a home run and
| I've basically read all his work.
| jeremiahbuckley wrote:
| You might like Invisible Planets, Chinese sci-fi short stories
| compilation. I've read a few of them; Folding Beijing is pretty
| great.
| yboris wrote:
| My all-time-favorite collection of short stories is _The
| Wandering Earth_ by Cixin Liu. Highly recommend, whether or not
| you liked The Three Body Problem (trilogy)
| alexhornby wrote:
| loved the dust theory. really stuck with me, bit like the dark
| forest from three body problem
| loudmax wrote:
| Greg Egan's Mastodon profile is
| https://mathstodon.xyz/@gregeganSF He's fairly active there and
| likes to post math problems.
|
| I liked Permutation City, but Diaspora really blew me away. Every
| time you begin to get your mind around some radical new concept,
| Egan throws adds another fold that makes you reconsider
| everything you think you knew.
| prepend wrote:
| I think Diaspora has the best description of a valid digital
| identity. But I still kept thinking I'd never trust my
| existence to the polis/state keeping my private key private.
|
| In Diaspora if someone steals your private cert then they
| become you or are at least indistinguishable to everyone else
| from you. I've never seen a super solid way to prevent this
| when everyone and everything is digital.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| I thought asking similar lines with Altered Carbon: If you
| can switch physical bodies, then how can you prove you're
| you?
|
| Do you have to memorise a GUID? What if you forget it? What
| is someone else knows yours? If there's no physical link, how
| is it provable?
| prepend wrote:
| They skipped this in Altered Carbon and it was just a
| "rule."
|
| Memorizing a GUID wouldn't work because someone could read
| it from your memory.
|
| Stephenson did this well, I think, in Dodge with the PURDAH
| as it was an AI trained on every characteristic of an
| individual through their life so it was impossible to fake.
| Still hand waving, but logically consistent hand waving for
| an id that spans consciousness transferring from biology to
| digital.
| gchamonlive wrote:
| I would really like to see writers sell their work DRM free on
| their pages, or have an open and responsible platform that
| writers could use for that.
|
| I know it is a hassle to process anything finance-related, but in
| my region on amazon the book is unavailable and a hard copy isn't
| an option for me.
|
| It is virtually impossible for me to give money to the author for
| an e-reader version of the book.
| prepend wrote:
| Same. Not just for convenience of having drm-free ebooks but so
| I can have an AI read it to me.
|
| I don't really have a preference for audiobook performers so
| hate having to buy ebook and audiobook. So I'm happy just
| feeding a text file into a reader and listening that way.
| macrolime wrote:
| What AI do you use for that?
| prepend wrote:
| macOS' "say" command is tolerable. Edge will read documents
| out to me.
|
| And I've also played around with speechify and natural
| reader, but am kind of stuck because most of the public
| domain I want to read already have librevox or some
| recording available. And I can't feed properly purchased
| books without a hassle.
| wishfish wrote:
| I agree with your wish for more DRM-free options. I don't know
| why a hard copy isn't an option for you. If it's just because
| you lack the space, then one option would be to order the
| physical book. Give it away. And download a copy of the book
| from LibGen. Author gets their money and you get a usable copy
| of the book.
| bhaney wrote:
| Permutation City was my introduction to Egan many years ago, and
| since then I've read nearly everything he's written ( _Scale_ is
| still somewhere on my unfortunately neglected reading list, but I
| 'll get to it eventually).
|
| The same captivating exploration of interesting ideas is
| omnipresent throughout his work, and that's always been why I
| keep coming back. I think it's important to go into his stories
| with an open mind towards what literature is allowed to be -
| namely that it can focus on things other than narrative or
| characterization without being a detriment to itself. A steak
| does not need to be as sweet as a cake in order to satisfy a
| diner, after all. And that's not to say that he avoids
| interesting narration or character development entirely, but
| there are definitely stories of his where he's clearly focusing
| on other aspects, and the choice to do that feels intentional and
| appropriate to me.
| edanm wrote:
| Which Egan is your favorite?
| bhaney wrote:
| It's been years since the last one I read, so it's a bit hard
| to recall. But the stories that have really stuck in my mind
| are the results of Egan tweaking some physical law,
| constructing a universe that might reasonably arise under
| those physical conditions, and then writing a plausible
| adventure within that universe.
|
| Dichronauts (2 spacial and 2 time-like dimensions instead of
| our 3 and 1) and the Orthogonal trilogy (Riemannian spacetime
| instead of our "Lorentzian") come to mind. I just really like
| the care he puts into constructing these universes, from how
| planets form (the worlds in Dichronauts are infinite
| hyperboloids instead of spheres), to how scientific discovery
| progresses (as a result of the physics in Orthogonal, light
| of different frequencies travel at different speeds and
| visually separate as a common matter of course, which leads
| to a much earlier understanding of relativity by a fairly
| primitive civilization). It feels like he's building
| universes from first principles and taking care to consider
| every little consequence and detail, which leads to a lot of
| "Ohhhhh" moments when you encounter something counter-
| intuitive but then realize it directly follows as a
| consequence of the initial physics tweak.
| BandButcher wrote:
| Sweet site thanks
| CapmCrackaWaka wrote:
| Permutation city is one of those books that "blew my mind". If
| you read sci-fi recreationaly, you know what I'm talking about.
| When the author introduces a novel concept which makes you think
| "holy crap, _what if_???" and then uses that concept to create a
| compelling story. It's on the top shelf in my library, along with
| my other favorite books.
| alecco wrote:
| Greg Egan is the Nintendo-hard of SciFi. You enjoy re-reading
| many times and every time you figure out something new.
| gafferongames wrote:
| Egan's short stories are great. Luminous is an excellent
| collection. I've never been huge fan of his long form novels, and
| will remember forever the sex scene in one of them that ends with
| a cramped testicle. Why Greg, why?
| ycombinete wrote:
| That scene is from Permutation City. I thought it was a nice
| metaphor for that character's strained relationship with his
| corporeal self.
| gafferongames wrote:
| I look forward to the motion picture adaptation of this
| scene.
| eterps wrote:
| _> Egan 's short stories are great [...] I've never been huge
| fan of his long form novels_
|
| Same here, I love his short stories!
|
| IMO short form works better for him because there's so much to
| think about, even after having finished reading a story.
|
| If someone needs a pointer on where to start I can recommend
| this thread:
| https://redlib.freedit.eu/r/printSF/comments/x1i4bj/greg_ega...
|
| I especially enjoyed: - The Safe-Deposit Box
| - Into Darkness
| GeekyBear wrote:
| I found the concept of computational biology pretty mind blowing
| in the early 1990s.
| azaras wrote:
| I do not remember when I read that I was Richard Stallman's
| favorite book. Then I read it, and I love it.
|
| I tried to find the citation online, but I found that Richard
| Stallman does not have a favorite book (https://stallman.org/rms-
| lifestyle.html); anyway, it is a good book with good ideas to
| think about.
| mindcrime wrote:
| I thought _Permutation City_ was great. One of my favorite sci-fi
| reads from the last couple of decades. It 's probably about time
| to read it again, as most of the details escape me now.
|
| Anyway, I was going to say... I've always thought that folks who
| enjoyed _Permutation City_ might also enjoy _Glasshouse_ [1] by
| Charles Stross[2]. The two novels aren't necessarily overtly
| similar, but I feel like there's a sort of abstract conceptual
| kinship there.
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasshouse_(novel)
|
| [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=cstross
| edanm wrote:
| I've long wanted to read Charles Stross and somehow haven't.
| (Well, I read a few chapters of Accelerando years ago and never
| finished it, despiting liking it quite a bit.)
|
| Do you think Glasshouse is a good place to start with his
| writing and is representative of his style? I _loved_
| Permutation City, one of my favorite books.
|
| (I would've asked cstross himself but that would seem too
| awkward!)
| yboris wrote:
| I once commented on HN how much I loved _Accelerando_ and
| Charles Stross responded suggesting I read his _The Rapture
| of the Nerds_. I read it soon after and loved it. I very much
| enjoy the genre of people living inside computers; I welcome
| recommendations.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rapture_of_the_Nerds
| lxgr wrote:
| > I very much enjoy the genre of people living inside
| computers; I welcome recommendations.
|
| "Ra" by qntm: https://qntm.org/ra
| mindcrime wrote:
| _Do you think Glasshouse is a good place to start with his
| writing and is representative of his style?_
|
| Well... to me, I'd almost divide Stross' works into two
| tranches: the "The Laundry Files" books, and everything else.
| In that regard, I think _Glasshouse_ is fairly representative
| of the "everything else" tranche. But even then, there's a
| fair amount of variance in his works. I wouldn't, for
| example, necessarily compare _Halting State_ and _Glasshouse_
| , or _Rule 34_ and _Singularity Sky_. I guess that 's a way
| of saying that while Stross has his favored themes and
| topics, he's far from formulaic and I don't feel like you can
| pigeon-hole his "style" too narrowly.
|
| That said, I haven't read _every_ other work Stross has
| written, but I 've read a pretty good chunk of them. And
| almost all of the "The Laundry Files" novels. Me personally,
| I recommend pretty much all of it. :-)
|
| EDIT: Just realized that there's really a 3rd major tranche
| of works in Stross' ouvre: the "The Merchant Princes" books.
| I forgot about those, as I haven't actually read any of them
| (shame, shame, I know...). All of what I've read of Stross to
| date is from the "The Laundry Files" series or the
| "everything else" batch, minus "The Merchant Princes".
| BillSaysThis wrote:
| Merchant Princes series is about my favorite cstross!
| mindcrime wrote:
| I actually have the first two or three books in that
| series on my shelf already, waiting to be read. Just
| haven't worked my way around to them yet. Soon,
| hopefully...
| gattr wrote:
| I love both _The Laundry Files_ and _Merchant Princes_ /
| _Empire Games_ , and wouldn't mind seeing a high-budget
| TV adaptation of them.
|
| _mild spoiler_
|
| At some point there's a bloody Project Orion-type
| spaceship _taking off the Earth 's surface_.
| KineticLensman wrote:
| > I forgot about those, as I haven't actually read any of
| them (shame, shame, I know...)
|
| It's a really great set of stories, nine in total now, and
| unlike The Laundry Files, a finalised / completed story
| arc. They evolve quite radically, from an initial portal
| fantasy (reporter finds herself in an apparently medieval
| parallel world), via trans-dimensional techno-thriller,
| multi-timeline developmental economics, to high-concept
| space war. Highly recommended.
|
| And the Laundry Files has to be the only series I've read
| where vampires use agile / scrum techniques to source their
| blood supplies, and where an Elven combined-arms
| battlegroup make the Waffen-SS look like soft jessies.
|
| Incidentally, the Laundry Files has its own separate spin-
| off; the New Management series. Also good fun.
| kybernetikos wrote:
| I think glasshouse is truly excellent, but to me it's not
| terribly representative of the other works (most of which I
| also enjoy - they're just different).
| airstrike wrote:
| OK, I stared at that animation far longer than I should have...
|
| then went digging and found this other link by the same author:
| http://www.gregegan.net/SCIENCE/Superpermutations/Superpermu...
| waveBidder wrote:
| his mastodon presence is full of such things
|
| https://mathstodon.xyz/@gregeganSF
| lfciv wrote:
| What is this?? Permutation City?!
| dandare wrote:
| Just came here to say that Diaspora by Gregg Egan is my #1 book
| ever :)
| aethertron wrote:
| It's up there for me. But I liked his Schild's Ladder, which
| plays with some of the same ideas, even more.
| gilbetron wrote:
| I literally was telling a friend about how the one group needed
| to warn the group on earth about the danger (keeping things
| vague deliberately!) and how they had to quickly "evolve"
| different entities to be able to communicate with the earth
| beings.
|
| Also the different time scale awareness concept.
|
| Such great ideas!
| Pixelbrick wrote:
| If you enjoy the 'cute bugs doing science' SF subgenre then his
| incandescence is definitely worth a look.
|
| https://www.gregegan.net/INCANDESCENCE/Incandescence.html
| Karsteski wrote:
| Great book. I've read it through twice already! I always
| recommend it when talking about Sci Fi
| prepend wrote:
| I remember this book having the concept of people running at
| different time scales so people in "the real world" would run at
| 1x and simulated people would run at whatever fraction they could
| afford. And they could speed up temporarily to have conversations
| back to real world.
|
| This made me think that sometimes our physical brains speed up
| and can run at 2x but still only get I/o at 1x. It will be neat
| that I think at some point we'll be able to boost up to like
| 1000x with implants or whatnot and think about something that
| doesn't require any new information and then return to the
| present with insight to continue the conversation.
|
| I hope this is affordable because it will be so handy for many
| things. If even to just spend more time staring at the Mona Lisa
| and contemplating.
|
| It also makes me wonder how people age in fiction where people
| can freeze time. If someone freeze time for a year, does their
| body keep aging biologically?
| ryanianian wrote:
| This book rather profoundly impacted my sense of reality and the
| kinds of realities that can exist within sci-fi universes.
| ews wrote:
| Egan has been my favorite author for years. I like his earlier
| works (like this one) much more than his last books. I have the
| impression most books he wrote and published in the last 15 years
| require a Ph.D. in either Mathematics or Theoretical Physics.
| Permutation City was my absolute gateway drug to his work and I
| could not stop talking about it when it first came out.
|
| A series that explores similar ideas (although to a much smaller
| degree) of uploading, artificial life, and transfumanism, I've
| been enjoying lately is Pantheon. I just wanted to mention it
| here since I think you guys will enjoy it.
| jeremyjh wrote:
| Zendegi is a recent book that is quite readable - but I agree
| regarding most of the others. Permutation City is one of my
| favorites but I think Diaspora must be my very favorite.
| arisAlexis wrote:
| I felt dumb and that I couldn't keep up also with Permutation
| City
| jamilton wrote:
| I read The Book of All Skies and quite liked it, but yeah, I
| basically just skimmed over the especially mathy sections. In
| that one the math is about (spoiler?) how gravity would work
| with a very unique planet, with comparisons drawn to
| electrostatics, I think. It was still enjoyable because it's
| still unique and interesting sci-fi.
| gojomo wrote:
| If they ever want to shoot an 'Even Blacker Mirror' TV anthology,
| they should adapt Egan's short stories. 'Axiomatic', especially.
|
| Two stories in that collection from before the modern social
| internet (1992), with non-internet somewhat fantastic premises,
| nonetheless often come to mind when observing modern online self-
| presentational & affiliational dynamics:
|
| * 'The Hundred Light-Year Diary' - a method of receiving tiny
| (tweet-like!) messages from the future - eventually rationed out
| to all people! - examines questions of free-will &
| (self-)deception, at many levels
|
| * 'Unstable Orbits in the Space of Lies' - how much of what you
| believe/aver is imposed by your neighborhood?
| chrispine wrote:
| This book sent me into a four-year-long depression and
| existential crisis.
|
| Best book I ever read. I guess.
| jcul wrote:
| I recommended this on another HN thread last week.
|
| Probably my favourite book of all time. I'm almost due a reread.
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