[HN Gopher] A case for the preservation of abandoned places
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       A case for the preservation of abandoned places
        
       Author : ecliptik
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2024-02-09 16:19 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
        
       | lapetitejort wrote:
       | I'd never considered exploring abandoned places until I randomly
       | had the opportunity to explore perhaps one of the last batch of
       | Woolworth's to be closed on the Eastern seaboard. The entire
       | several story building used to be a shopping center, with a
       | restaurant in the basement, fed by a kitchen and dumb waiter.
       | 
       | The street level had been retrofitted for shops, but the basement
       | and upper floors were still abandoned and left essentially as is.
       | I had the opportunity to work with one of the street level shops,
       | and they had a key to the basement. I did my work there, and then
       | got curious because the same staircase that went to the basement
       | also went up. I very carefully and quietly crept upstairs,
       | attempting to stay away from windows (which had been painted
       | over, but you never know). I found a giant stove used by the
       | restaurant, several rooms of shelves, gutted bathrooms, a
       | completely analog cash register, and posters from halloween and
       | Christmas events (which I dated to be around mid 90s). I felt
       | scared the entire time, from getting caught (considering I didn't
       | want to ruin my relationship with the shop) to anything bizarre I
       | might find. I didn't record it and deeply regret that.
       | 
       | In the grand scheme of things, a middle class shopping center
       | might be far down the list of places to preserve. Or perhaps not.
       | Grand cathedrals inspire awe, but the mundane places visited by
       | magnitudes more people are forgotten.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | Sounds like a good way to come face-to-face with an SCP, or
         | maybe to become an instance of SCP-xxxx-2.
         | 
         | Come to think of it, I wonder if some of the fascination with
         | SCPs, liminal spaces, "The Backrooms", etc. comes from the fact
         | that there _are_ so many abandoned business and retail spaces.
         | Places that were bustling with activity in the 80s and 90s but,
         | by the time they were discovered by millennials and younger,
         | were already abandoned and devoid of their context.
        
           | keiferski wrote:
           | Excuse the self promotion, but: I spent quite a bit of time
           | researching and thinking about the liminal spaces phenomenon.
           | You might enjoy the resulting blog post:
           | 
           | https://onthearts.com/p/what-are-liminal-spaces-and-why-
           | are?...
        
         | its_ethan wrote:
         | Is it fair to say that maybe grand cathedrals are preserved is
         | because they continue to be used? for services or organ
         | concerts, or food pantries - whatever. They are also generally
         | owned and maintained in a way that a bankrupt shopping center
         | is not.
        
       | dbreunig wrote:
       | You know what means more to a community? Affordable housing.
        
         | Nifty3929 wrote:
         | Or just housing. Or maybe a park or school. Or hospital. Is an
         | abandoned theater really the most socially beneficial use of
         | some piece of land? Actually in some cases maybe it is. But not
         | very often.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | "Despite setbacks and heartaches, major construction on the
           | Lansdowne Theater finally began in 2023, and it is expected
           | to reopen as a concert venue in fall 2024. Matt Schultz
           | projects that the restored theater will attract 100,000
           | visitors yearly, spurring millions of dollars in business
           | growth, tax revenue, jobs, and investment."
           | 
           | (The headline is a bit misleading. Most of the article is
           | about efforts to revitalize the theater.)
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | If someone or some group wants to buy an old theater and
             | try to revitalize it, fine. But if someone wants to buy it
             | and tear it down and build apartments, or convert the space
             | into a restaurant or something else, that should be fine
             | too. Most local theaters are not historically significant,
             | they are just old.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I don't think I wrote anything different. I would need
               | considerable convincing that an abandoned theater should
               | be left to rot empty because no developer wants to
               | faithfully restore it as a theater as opposed to building
               | something else there.
               | 
               | In this case, someone did eventually undertake restoring
               | it so it's not actually abandoned.
        
             | lc9er wrote:
             | Living in Philly, I can pretty confidently say there's a 0%
             | chance a theater in Lansdowne, even a nicely restored,
             | historical, theater, will attract 100000 visitors in a
             | year.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Oh, I'd expect the person whose baby this is would be
               | over-optimistic. But I'll still maintain that a restored
               | downtown concert space with some historical significance
               | isn't a _bad_ thing.
        
               | lc9er wrote:
               | Agreed. I definitely came off a bit cynical. We just have
               | an abundance of exceptional performance spaces in Philly
               | and the nearby suburbs. Hopefully, this is a benefit to
               | Lansdowne.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | The old Sears catalog distribution warehouse in Dallas was
         | converted to multi-family housing. As part of the agreement
         | with the city, it is required to offer a certain number of
         | units as Section 8. They don't advertise this, and most people
         | don't know it. It's just part of the games developers/owners
         | play.
         | 
         | To add to the exploring old buildings part of this thread, this
         | converted building has lots of space for this. There is a
         | basement, and then a sub-basement. The original warehouse was
         | powered by DC, and the generators were located in this sub-
         | basement. These things were huge. So large, that in order to
         | remove them, they had to be cut into pieces. The building had
         | been expanded, with the new addition being made into an actual
         | retail Sears store. They had 2 underground floors, and being a
         | show room had terrazzo flooring. These underground floors have
         | now been converted into parking which totally hides the design
         | of the terrazzo, and very few people even look at the floor of
         | a parking garage to even notice.
        
       | Aurornis wrote:
       | I had a fascination with abandoned places when I was younger.
       | 
       | Sadly, a friend of a friend was exploring an abandoned building
       | when the floor gave out underneath him. He has a permanent
       | disability as a result. The group thought the structure was
       | sound, but hidden water damage had weakened part of the floor
       | enough that it gave up under his weight.
       | 
       | After that, I started appreciating abandoned places only through
       | photos from others.
        
         | digging wrote:
         | Worst I've had is friends with extensive poison ivy or ripped
         | clothing, but your story is a valuable one. Abandoned places
         | are inherently dangerous for multiple reasons, as much fun as
         | exploring them can be.
        
         | serjester wrote:
         | I can relate as I also spent countless hours exploring
         | abandoned places when I was younger. Similarly, I watched a
         | friend fall through a floor exploring an school, but luckily in
         | our case no injuries came of it. The risk is under appreciated
         | but when you're a teenager you don't care. Amazing memories
         | though.
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | I'm pretty against preservation of abandonded properties for
       | historical sake. If it's truly unique or very historically
       | significant, maybe -- but then it probably would not be
       | abandoned.
       | 
       | Local theatres, old houses, old industrial sites that are falling
       | apart -- no. Let someone buy the property and do something
       | productive with it. Local historical commissions that prohibit a
       | person from improving his house just because it's some old style
       | of bungalow cause way more harm than benefit.
        
         | moshun wrote:
         | On its surface, your argument makes sense. However it ignores
         | the real reasons that many of these places are abandoned in the
         | first place: economic depression.
         | 
         | Social and cultural value doesn't often directly equate to
         | economic value which means your proposed policy to tear down
         | abandoned property and pop up strip malls, parking lots and
         | luxury apartments owned by foreign investors will likely leave
         | us culturally worse off every year that passes. Perhaps we can
         | do better.
        
           | behringer wrote:
           | Sure. Let the squatters have it if it's worthless it doesn't
           | matter. And while you're at it ban foreign ownership on
           | property.
        
           | some_random wrote:
           | How does legally requiring people to leave up unused
           | "historial" buildings prevent foreign investment, strip
           | malls, or parking lots? These seem like completely different
           | issues to me.
        
           | Fuut wrote:
           | Those things are 'mittel zum zweck' German saying for it's
           | just a necessary medium for the intended purpose.
           | 
           | You don't go to the Cinema because of the building, you go
           | for the movie, friends,. atmosphere etc
        
           | yterdy wrote:
           | It's also short-sighted; present-thinking to a fault
           | (unfortunately, all-too-common). As an example: many of the
           | Gilded Age mansions that helped revitalize Newport, RI
           | tourism (and, essentially, the local economy as a whole,
           | after the Navy mostly left) were basically abandoned for many
           | years. Nobody cared about preserving the decadent detritus of
           | robber barons (because, as you said, people were more
           | concerned with common economic troubles). Attitudes change
           | and lines go up; the jazz fest brought deep pockets and
           | people remembered you could summer somewhere other than the
           | Hamptons. On the other side of the coin, before Enes Yilmazer
           | and after LOTRAF, they served as a publicly-accessible view
           | into filthy rich-itude. Maybe we head towards another
           | depression at some point, and people decide preserving these
           | iconic relics isn't worth it anymore. But that's not an
           | absolute state, just a product of shifting dynamics which we
           | can't really scope out fully without some distance.
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | If age or historicity of something lends it value, then the
         | government can pay to preserve that. It's not right to force a
         | private owner to shoulder a cost that has a public benefit.
         | Forcing the government to pay for it will cause the government
         | to more properly balance costs and benefits.
        
       | tigen wrote:
       | This particular building doesn't seem very nice to me but I agree
       | with the hope of making non-cookie-cutter places.
       | 
       | It seems to mostly revolve around (not) designing cities for
       | cars. The typical suburban towns and cities in America are almost
       | not towns at all, more arbitrary geographic boxes drawn around
       | anonymous wide streets, traffic lights galore, parking lots,
       | driveways.
       | 
       | In my area there are occasional attempts to improve downtown
       | areas or build new "Euro inspired" developments. This has varying
       | success but they tend to be isolated caricatures, more like
       | shopping malls than communities people live in... there isn't a
       | coherent regional long-term plan. And there is always a pressure
       | to deal with traffic, adding more housing/density creates more
       | and more traffic and parking needs. There's a bus network but it
       | also gets stuck in traffic doesn't properly deal with the far-
       | flung regional destinations caused by the fundamental lack of
       | density.
       | 
       | The cars also cause a general feeling of danger. Even in quiet
       | neighborhoods kids are at risk of death from a passing car.
        
         | acchow wrote:
         | Ah, the "fake downtowns" are cropping up everywhere. The
         | sururbanites want walkable spaces, but they want it to be on
         | private land wherein the homeless are banned.
        
           | srackey wrote:
           | It would be a lot cheaper to just ban the homeless from
           | public spaces. You'd also get overwhelming support from the
           | public -- alas, it will never happen.
        
           | DiggyJohnson wrote:
           | I see this above-it-all take all the time: but do you prefer
           | to live in a community inundated with homeless people? I
           | currently live in a great downtown in a second-tier city, but
           | the homeless pose one of the greatest risks to both property
           | and peace of mind (getting yelled at). I don't mind too much,
           | and since getting to know many of them things are fine, but I
           | still mind when I'm accosted by a crazy person on my way to
           | the car in the morning.
           | 
           | Am I weird? I want these people to get help, and don't blame
           | them for their situation. But I would prefer they got that
           | help and I didn't get yelled at or panhandled or worry about
           | leaving my backpack in the car.
        
       | angarg12 wrote:
       | It's not uncommon in Europe to restore old and historical
       | buildings and turn them into modern homes. I think it's a middle
       | ground between preserving an old build as-is, and serving the
       | current needs of a city.
       | 
       | Here [1] is an example of an old brewery turned vanguardist home
       | in Barcelona. IMO one of the coolest homes I've seen.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/101990029/
        
       | tmnvix wrote:
       | Of all the places I've visited in my travels, Humberstone, Chile
       | would rate right near the top. An abandoned mining town in the
       | Atacama, it is extremely well preserved and a UNESCO World
       | Heritage Site.
       | 
       | I'd encourage anyone visiting the region to go there. It's not a
       | busy place. Myself and my girlfriend were the only people there
       | on the day we visited. Just don't miss the last bus back to
       | Iquique. We nearly did. The thought of spending the night there
       | was terrifying!
       | 
       | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-31090757
       | 
       | Edit: This article has more interesting photos
       | https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/chile-s-largest-nitrat...
        
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