[HN Gopher] Tiny quadrotor learns to fly in 18 seconds
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       Tiny quadrotor learns to fly in 18 seconds
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2024-02-09 15:01 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
        
       | ducktective wrote:
       | Apart from this project, does anyone know any other DIY quadrotor
       | building instructions with cheap off-the-shelf materials?
        
         | pugworthy wrote:
         | Have you looked into ArduPilot?
         | 
         | https://ardupilot.org/
         | 
         | https://github.com/ArduPilot/ardupilot
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | Honestly anything with `ardu` in the name screams "I just
           | learnt to code and I don't know what I'm doing". I know
           | nothing about this space but I'd definitely check out the PX4
           | link that they other guy posted before this.
        
             | olex wrote:
             | Don't dismiss Ardupilot so easily. Yes, it grew out of
             | Arduino Megas running the code with some stapled-on
             | sensors, but that was many years ago - it's an extremely
             | powerful and arguably more "hobbyist"-friendly platform
             | that's very comparable to PX4. In my experience PX4 lends
             | itself very well to more scientific or industrial use,
             | especially when integrating with other on-board compute
             | units that are part of the payload, whereas Ardupilot is
             | much easier to get working and capable off-the-shelf. Both
             | software stacks run on essentially the same hardware
             | nowadays.
        
             | cchance wrote:
             | For freestyle betaflight is the goto firmware
        
             | hadlock wrote:
             | Ardupilot is very very mature software. It stopped being
             | able to be run on an arduino about a decade ago. There's a
             | guy who has been doing aireal waypoint missions for miles
             | and miles, as well as terrestrial boat missions lasting
             | days. It's been adapted for sailboats as well.
        
             | wkipling wrote:
             | At least click the link before submitting your premature
             | damnation
        
             | 05 wrote:
             | The only advantage of PX4 is its license - it's BSD vs
             | Ardupilot's GPL, so companies can use the code without
             | giving back. The mindshare just isn't there - PX4 is orders
             | of magnitude more obscure, so instead of YouTube tutorials
             | you'll be trying to get help on PX4 specific forums or
             | digging through the code base.
        
         | inetknght wrote:
         | I work for a drone company.
         | 
         | PX4 is ubiquitous in the industry and in prosumer devices.
         | 
         | PX4 provides the autopilot stack. There's all kinds of
         | developer drone releases with all of the parts working and
         | assembled.
        
         | jabroni_salad wrote:
         | I got a tinywhoop kit for my nephew and my sister hated it, so
         | it's probably good.
         | 
         | There is an entire ecosystem around those, so you can go
         | piecemeal if you want.
        
       | steve_gh wrote:
       | This is interesting, because it seem to be a start at solving the
       | Fulmar Problem.
       | 
       | A fulmar is a cliff nesting sea bird (with a defensive habit of
       | noxious projectile vomiting). They spend their early life on a
       | ledge, but one day they have to start flying. And if you are a
       | fulmar you have a very limited time to learn to fly.
       | 
       | So the question is, how does a baby fulmar learn to fly in 10s!
       | 
       | It would be interesting to know how much computing power is
       | required for training (compared to the power requred to run the
       | controlling NN).
       | 
       | My own view is that the network architecture is important, so
       | fulmar brains have evolved with a neural architecture that
       | enables extremely quick learning to stable flight.
       | 
       | I played around with a few ideas on using GAs to evolve NN
       | architectures for rapid learning during my PhD 25 years ago, but
       | ended up going in another direction.
        
         | jahnu wrote:
         | Why can't evolution build in the ability of flight and what it
         | needs to learn in the 10 seconds is not how to fly but which
         | way to go?
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | Instinct and coordinated muscle memory are two very different
           | things. Animals can evolve to develop that muscle memory
           | faster (i.e. see how long it takes a calf to walk versus a
           | human infant) but it still needs time to develop and that
           | development requires active practice.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | A spider does not learn to make a web either. This is
             | arguably more complicated than flying. And its brain is
             | much smaller than a bird's.
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | A spider spinning web is an emergent behavior built up
               | from a bunch of simpler ones like excretion, simple
               | movement, and electrostatic hopping from point to point.
               | A bird flying requires the coordination of a much larger
               | number of muscles at the same time, which is much more
               | complex from a nervous system perspective.
               | 
               | Spiders reproduce much faster and have a much smaller
               | survival rate so they're well selected for that kind of
               | instinct. Birds less so.
        
         | bitcurious wrote:
         | A paper airplane can learn to fly on a breeze in being folded.
         | I posit that a fulmar is closer to a paper airplane than to a
         | drone.
        
           | onion2k wrote:
           | If that were true lots of young fulmars would drown in the
           | sea at the bottom of a cliff when they fledge. That doesn't
           | happen. They fly, with control, and enough understanding to
           | land safely on water.
        
       | ahepp wrote:
       | Does anyone know of an affordable COTS drone one could try this
       | out with? I'm very interested in the intersection of machine
       | learning and control theory.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | There's a link in the article to the open source drone they
         | were using: https://www.bitcraze.io/products/crazyflie-2-1/
        
       | cchance wrote:
       | I've wondered why we haven't seen a lightweight model on quads
       | for PID tuning, betaflight firmwares great but pid tunings such a
       | pain in the ass if you want it tuned well how about an AI that on
       | the fly adjusts the pid rates.
        
         | ducktective wrote:
         | Technically, PID only makes sense for linear time-invariant
         | systems. A quadrotor drone is inherently a nonlinear system but
         | people use linear controllers on it anyways.
         | 
         | I mean if we're going to use "AI" on controls, it better be
         | looking for tuning something else, better still, we should only
         | utilize the "optimization algorithms" parts of "AI" hence
         | optimal control.
        
       | nvahalik wrote:
       | I know this nit-picks but... it didn't "learn" anything.
       | 
       | It progressively improved its algorithm using a series of
       | feedback sessions.
       | 
       | It _improved_ but it didn't _learn_. Someone pre-programmed basic
       | control and feedback parameters.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong--this is still amazing and has useful
       | applications. But can we please stop calling this
       | improvement/refining/tuning process "learning"?
        
       | disillusioned wrote:
       | Ah yes, one step closer to Slaughterbots reality:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-09 23:00 UTC)