[HN Gopher] AMD Ryzen 5 8500G: A surprisingly fascinating sub-$2...
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       AMD Ryzen 5 8500G: A surprisingly fascinating sub-$200 CPU
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 127 points
       Date   : 2024-02-07 17:38 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.phoronix.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.phoronix.com)
        
       | jes5199 wrote:
       | a surprisingly what
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | Limitation of HN title lengths probably. Or OP's capability to
         | edit titles.
        
           | Arnavion wrote:
           | HN automatically filters words from titles that they think
           | are clickbaity. "Fascinating" is probably in that list.
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | That's pretty stupid, no? Why doesn't it alert the poster
             | of the clickbaity word prompting him to remove it before
             | being allowed to post it, instead of silently removing it
             | without the poster's knowledge ending up with janky titles?
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | With the approach you're proposing, we'd possibly start
               | to see titles like "AMD Ryzen 5 8500G: A Surprisingly
               | F*$cin@ting Sub-$200 CPU".
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | Why? People could also do that now if they wish. You
               | can't stop malicious compliance with a poorly implemented
               | filter. And for that you have the flag button and dang
               | who deletes them.
               | 
               | But if you do have a poorly implemented filter, why not
               | let your users know the rules instead of them finding out
               | through obscurity?
               | 
               | Openness is better than obscurity, no? Isn't that the
               | FOSS ethos?
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | I prefer that to "a surprisingly sub-$200".
        
             | neogodless wrote:
             | The HN ethos is to cultivate curiosity, so the word
             | "Fascinating" seems on brand, even if it does help a bit to
             | draw attention.
        
         | jsight wrote:
         | Surprisingly fascinating according to the article. It does seem
         | like great performance for the price and Watt.
        
         | nsxwolf wrote:
         | Surprisingly sub-$200
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | I definitely didn't expect it to be so sub-$200.
        
       | based_gigachad2 wrote:
       | One of the CPUs of all times
       | 
       | Edit: the title now has been fixed
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Definitely one of the CPUs ever made, possibly ever.
        
       | sliken wrote:
       | You'd think after AMD shipped Xbox One, XboxX, PS4, and PS5 with
       | decent iGPUs and a decent memory bandwidth they might bless one
       | of their APUs with > 128 bit wide memory. Seems an obvious
       | bottleneck that would improve GPU performance.
       | 
       | It's coming with the Halo Strix with it's 256 bit wide memory,
       | but should it really have taken over a decade?
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | Yeah same. Especially that those consoles were launched all the
         | way back in 2020, nearly 4 years ago.
         | 
         | I guess it's difficult to replicate the console performance
         | when those run on GDDR as system memory and PCs on DDR so the
         | bandwidth difference is huge.
         | 
         | But it's not like a system integrator like Asus or Gigabyte
         | couldn't have built a small form factor PC based on a PC
         | variant of the consoles APU and use GDDR instead.
         | 
         | AMD really missed out on this, especially during the pandemic
         | when everyone was stuck indoor trying to game and looking for
         | inexistent GPUs.
        
           | sliken wrote:
           | Xbox One came out in 2013, 11 years ago, with an AMD CPU.
           | 
           | PS4 came out in 2013, 11 years ago, with an AMD CPU.
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | Yes, but what's your point with those facts? Those were
             | Bulldozer based APUs, not very good compared to what you
             | could buy for PC back then, in an era where AMD wasn't very
             | competitive and GPUs weren't overpriced unobtanium.
        
               | sliken wrote:
               | Just pointing out that AMD has been shipping cheap APUs
               | with nice memory systems that increase iGPU performance
               | for over 10 years.
               | 
               | Just mystifies me that AMD hasn't shipped similar in a
               | laptop, SFF, or desktop yet. Especially during the GPU
               | shortage. The AMD 780m iGPU does pretty well, clearly AMD
               | could add more cores and ship a faster memory bus, like
               | the ones on their Threadripper (4 channel), Siena (6
               | channel), threadripper pro (8 channel), or Epyc (12
               | channel).
               | 
               | Apple's doing similar with M1/m2/m3 (128 bit), M1/M2/M3
               | Pro (256 bit), and M1/M2/M3 Max (512 bit wide) available
               | in laptops, tiny PCs (up to 256 bit wide) with the mini,
               | and small desktops (studio).
        
               | Narishma wrote:
               | They were not Bulldozer but Jaguar APUs.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | Jaguar was the APU console name but it was based on
               | Buldozer CPU architecture.
        
               | wtallis wrote:
               | Jaguar was the codename for the CPU core
               | microarchitecture. AMD had two separate families of
               | microarchitectures, much like Intel's Core and Atom
               | families (since united in one chip in Alder Lake and
               | later).
        
           | p_l wrote:
           | GDDR isn't necessarily all that better on use for general
           | purpose CPU.
           | 
           | Most importantly, buyers didn't want machines with soldered
           | memory, and that was main method of going with wider bus
           | without prohibitively expensive boards etc.
        
         | wtallis wrote:
         | Jumping to a wider memory bus is most feasible in product
         | segments that already use soldered CPUs and RAM. PCs have been
         | reluctant to drop the sockets/slots until recently, and only
         | then in thin and light laptops. In systems that don't have
         | discrete GPUs, Intel hasn't been applying competitive pressure
         | against AMD's integrated GPUs.
         | 
         | So it's really been a question of whether AMD could spare the
         | cash to tape out a larger laptop chip with the goal of cutting
         | off the low end of NVIDIA's dGPU sales for laptops.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | This is exactly the reason - and perhaps they finally can do
           | it because "Apple showed the way" with the M-series.
           | 
           | They obviously could have done it from a technical
           | standpoint, as they _had_ done it for consoles, but those are
           | not general purpose from the viewpoint of who is laying out
           | the motherboard design.
        
             | KingOfCoders wrote:
             | Before Apple does it: Bad idea. After Apple does it: Next
             | big thing.
        
               | ip26 wrote:
               | They seem to have this unusual ability to get consumers
               | to suddenly demand what used to be too expensive.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | More importantly you can get the Board of (insert company
               | here) to finally do X if you can show that Apple did X.
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | They don't refer to it as a cult for nothing.
        
               | subarctic wrote:
               | An extremely large cult that has a spillover effect into
               | larger society
        
               | mynameisvlad wrote:
               | Or they have enough leverage for good contracts, and a
               | lot of money on hand to be able to make semi-risky bets
               | that others would not be willing to. Combined with good
               | marketing and reputation.
               | 
               | That enables them to take bigger bets than most, and
               | their reputation means customers are more likely to buy
               | into their big bets.
        
               | wiseowise wrote:
               | If that's what you call quality products, then I'd rather
               | be a part of cult.
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | > If that's what you call quality products
               | 
               | Well, those in the cult sure do.
        
               | wiseowise wrote:
               | When alternatives are Windows laptops that barely work -
               | it doesn't seem so expensive.
               | 
               | Case in point. Back in 2018, me and my gf bought new
               | laptops. I've opted for MBP and she bought Asus Rog
               | Strix. Both were over 2k euro.
               | 
               | Two years after her laptop has constant issues with
               | Windows updating all the time, WiFi modem dies until you
               | power cycle whole machine, it randomly turns on at night
               | or doesn't go to sleep at all, fans that sound like jet
               | engines even on lowest of speeds.
               | 
               | My MBP 2018 is still a champ after all these years, I had
               | literally zero issues with it and the only reason why I'm
               | contemplating upgrading is how amazing M processors are.
               | 
               | And seriously? More expensive? MacBook Air with 16GB of
               | RAM and M processor starts at 1500 euro. It has far
               | superior build quality, software and battery life than
               | any Linux/Windows machine in any category. And on top of
               | that it runs completely silently. Apple=expensive meme
               | needs to die.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | _> When alternatives are Windows laptops that barely work
               | - it doesn't seem so expensive. Case in point. _
               | 
               | Meh, yeah there are some junky laptops out there, but
               | case in point I've only had sub-1000 Euro Windows
               | notebooks from Acer, HP and Lenovo, and all worked fine
               | and lasted no matter how hard I abused them. Maybe I'm
               | just super lucky. Or maybe I was an informed consumer
               | with a trained eye to spot the good from the junk. Or
               | both.
               | 
               |  _> And seriously? More expensive? MacBook Air with 16GB
               | of RAM and M processor starts at 1500 euro_
               | 
               | 16GB ram and how much storage?
               | 
               | Yeah, that's pretty expensive for the specs and EU
               | purchasing power. Case in point, for Christmas I bought
               | myself a new Lenovo with the new 4nm Ryzen 7840HS, 32GB
               | RAM and 1TB NVME, for ~800 Euros sticker price, no
               | special promotion or sale. That seemed like a good deal
               | to me.
               | 
               | Now how much does Apple charge for 32GB RAM and 1TB
               | storage? 2500+ Euros for 24GB RAM. Damn son! Apple are
               | only price competitive at the bare minimum base
               | models(8GB RAM on a "Pro" device?! Give me break Apple).
               | When you start adding cores, RAM and storage, the price
               | skyrockets.
               | 
               | Each to his own if the price is worth it, I don't judge.
               | My friend who does a lot of video editing gets his
               | money's worth, but for my uses cases(Windows, Linux,
               | gaming, coding), that 800 Euro laptop will be more than
               | enough, no need to spend way more on Apple for less
               | functionality. Battery life on those Macs is tight tough.
               | If you're on the road a lot, and don't need windows/linux
               | stuff, I'd definitely get one.
        
           | o11c wrote:
           | Now that CAMM is a thing, there's nothing that forbids it
           | from being used for non-laptop machines.
        
             | wmf wrote:
             | Unfortunately CAMM appears to have a larger footprint than
             | a DIMM slot.
        
               | phkahler wrote:
               | >> Unfortunately CAMM appears to have a larger footprint
               | than a DIMM slot.
               | 
               | We need a new motherboard form factor that assumes no
               | PCIe graphics card. I like my ITX box and put the power
               | connector and button where the expansion slot would
               | normally go because I used an APU. But we could do a lot
               | better with the board size by assuming integrated
               | graphics. A lower riser on the back would be nice too -
               | maybe only 2 USB high.
        
               | tracker1 wrote:
               | At that point, you can get a complete mini PC with a
               | higher end laptop APU with a raised power limit anyway.
        
               | jauntywundrkind wrote:
               | True enough but not so so awful.
               | 
               | > _Nominal module dimensions listed in the standard point
               | to "various" form factors for the modules, with the
               | X-axis measuring 78 mm (3.07 inches) and the Y-axis
               | 29.6-68 mm (1.17-2.68 inches)._
               | 
               | From Artechnica. Whereas a regular DIMM is 5.5 inches
               | long & narrow on the Y.
        
               | Tuna-Fish wrote:
               | The footprint of a DIMM slot is not just the area the
               | slot itself takes. DIMMs force you to do a lot of length-
               | matching, which takes a lot of PCB space (and layers).
               | The actual footprint of the DIMMs also includes all the
               | space between the slots and the CPU. Especially LPCAMM2
               | does this inside the connector, and you can place the
               | connector as close as you can without causing clearance
               | issues.
        
               | AdrianB1 wrote:
               | I think CAMM direct comparison is SO-DIMMs where the DIMM
               | is parallel with the mainboard.
        
           | Dylan16807 wrote:
           | Isn't the main advantage of soldering RAM the speed you can
           | run the bus at?
           | 
           | I don't see how it affects width much when we're only talking
           | about 4 slots and 256 bits.
        
             | AdrianB1 wrote:
             | Also the space for traces is a problem with sockets. At 256
             | bits you need lots of traces with very precise equal
             | lengths.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | If you soldered DDR5 memory, wouldn't you still need to
               | have a lot of precise trace lengths and a lot of wasted
               | space to make that match across banks of chips?
               | 
               | If the solution is to compensate for delays in a smarter
               | way, then I would assume that solution could be applied
               | to sockets too. Which goes back to asking what took them
               | so long.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | IIRC, some of that can be configured with the memory
               | controller - doesn't it check the bus to make sure the
               | timings are known in the board setup code?
        
             | wtallis wrote:
             | Doubling the bus width means more wiring and probably more
             | PCB layers than offering two slots per channel.
             | 
             | Right now, using DDR5 SODIMMs instead of LPDDR5 would throw
             | away half of the benefits of doubling the bus width, so
             | that's a non-starter. Using CAMM style modules may allow
             | for full-speed operation, but those have almost zero
             | adoption so far and I think it's too soon to tell how
             | widespread they'll become.
             | 
             | Whatever option for connecting the DRAM, doubling the bus
             | width doubles the amount of DRAM the OEMs must populate the
             | system with, adding another cost on top of the more
             | expensive SoC and MLB.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | > Doubling the bus width means more wiring and probably
               | more PCB layers than offering two slots per channel.
               | 
               | Wouldn't that be offset, at least on desktop processors,
               | with more slots and memory channels?
        
               | wtallis wrote:
               | No. Desktops make the cost issues even worse, because
               | supporting twice the memory bus width not only means more
               | wires, but also a larger, more expensive CPU socket, and
               | maybe a new heatsink mounting standard.
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | What market would they be targeting?
         | 
         | People who want casual gaming buy consoles.
         | 
         | People who want gaming-level performance buy discreet GPUs.
         | 
         | AMD makes more money selling a CPU and GPU.
        
         | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
         | What's to stop someone from taking a mid-high end dedicated
         | graphics card and soldering on a CPU, RAM, and IO? (Do they do
         | this already?) I know it sounds like sacrilege, but I suspect
         | most people upgrade their mobo/CPU/RAM/graphics all at once.
        
           | wtallis wrote:
           | Soldering doesn't do anything about pin count. An off the
           | shelf GPU chip is still going to support at most a PCIe x16
           | interface to other chips, which isn't enough to share DRAM
           | with a separate CPU.
           | 
           | Taping out a new chip that combines existing GPU and CPU IP
           | blocks is relatively straightforward, but taping out a large
           | chip is extremely expensive.
        
         | Osiris wrote:
         | Why do they not use HBM and unified memory like Apple? I assume
         | it's for cost reasons.
        
       | naranha wrote:
       | In the graphics benchmarks it performs mostly worse than the
       | 5600g/5700g. That's pretty disappointing 3 years later.
        
         | undersuit wrote:
         | It's the lowest end of the consumer APUs. The 8600g and the
         | 8700g are those models replacements.
        
         | daemonologist wrote:
         | Yeah it's a shame, you really have to step up to the 8700G (or
         | at least the 8600G) to get the true APU experience with modern
         | graphics performance. That said even the bottom of the range
         | significantly outperforms Intel's integrated solutions, and I
         | support anything that gives them a kick in the pants to ship
         | better iGPUs - one step closer to my work laptop being able to
         | run the Windows desktop at 4k without turning into a laggy
         | mess.
        
         | tremon wrote:
         | The 5600G had 7 graphics compute units, the 8500G only has 4;
         | if it performs within 10% of the 5600G, the compute units are
         | almost 60% faster than 3 years ago.
        
         | kvemkon wrote:
         | At least you hope, it is more power efficient due to advanced
         | manufacturing process. And then a totally disappointment: new
         | CPU consumes significantly more both under load and idle. The
         | AI-extensions are also missing. ECC is missing in all
         | 8300G/8500G/8600G/8700G.
        
           | tremon wrote:
           | Got a link for the ECC claim? Last I read, the ECC issues
           | with the AM5 platform were mostly fixed (at least many
           | vendors are claiming ECC compatibility again, which they
           | didn't a year ago).
        
             | kvemkon wrote:
             | I've just searched for official ECC support on * 8700G
             | https://www.amd.com/en/product/14066 * 8600G
             | https://www.amd.com/en/product/14071 * 8500G
             | https://www.amd.com/en/product/14086 * 8300G
             | https://www.amd.com/en/product/14091
             | 
             | 5xxxG are also known for missing official support, only PRO
             | favors have it.
             | 
             | Since ECC is for robustness I'd really prefer when both AMD
             | and ASUS/ASRock/Gigabyte/MSI/... mention ECC support in the
             | specification. Last time I've checked, only ASUS did
             | mention it for consumer AM5 mainboards. (Gigabyte did it
             | for (at least) one simple but expensive server mainboard.)
             | While for AM4 it wasn't such an issue for other
             | manufacturers too.
        
             | RussianCow wrote:
             | Historically, only the PRO variants of AMD's APUs have
             | supported ECC.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | If comparing to 5600g/5700g, there's no difference in AI
           | extensions or ECC. AI is new for 8600g/8700g, and ECC is only
           | in "pro" APUs.
        
       | hospitalJail wrote:
       | What are people using CPUs for?
       | 
       | I mean I have a crappy 7 year old CPU that I use for single
       | threaded dev, and it works for 99% of cases. In the 1% of cases,
       | I threw on multithreading and its fine.
       | 
       | Now my daily driver has a GPU and it unlocks new possibilities.
       | 
       | Its been over 10 years since I've really spent time thinking
       | about a CPU.
        
         | jibe wrote:
         | A lot of games still bottleneck on CPU.
        
           | wilsonnb3 wrote:
           | especially if you are trying to get high framerates
        
             | brucethemoose2 wrote:
             | Or trying to run large maps in sim games.
             | 
             | Speaking as a 7800X3D owner, I don't think any CPU on the
             | planet is sufficient for modded Rimworld yet.
        
         | josephg wrote:
         | Compiling rust code is slow and cpu bound. I have a fast cpu in
         | part to improve compile times while I'm programming.
        
           | tupolef wrote:
           | Did you experience a big gap between an older CPU and the
           | current one?
           | 
           | I did not change mine for 6 years, but looking at some
           | benchmarks, it looks like compilation times would not get
           | more than a few percents faster per generation. I expect to
           | get maybe 20% faster with a recent CPU in the same price
           | range.
           | 
           | Until 2005 I was updating the CPU every 2-3 years, then every
           | 5 years, and when I'll get the next one I plan to keep it 10
           | years easy.
        
             | rwaksmunski wrote:
             | I went from 2013 MBP to M3 Pro MBP and the performance
             | improvement in Rust / rust-analyzer was staggering.
        
             | AdrianB1 wrote:
             | There is a huge difference between my laptop and my desktop
             | in using VS Code with a few basic plugins. The difference
             | of the hardware between the 2 machines is mostly CPU and
             | SSD performance, the SSD makes a big impact opening
             | projects with many small files, but the CPU is used for
             | IntelliSense or even when you copy/paste a few thousands of
             | LOC from one file to another (laptop fan gets to max for
             | tens of seconds).
             | 
             | This is the biggest difference I see today. In the previous
             | generation it was a huge boost in everything just becauase
             | the old CPU was really old. I also keep CPUs 5 years or
             | more.
        
             | doublepg23 wrote:
             | I'd be curious if your old cpu uses an NVMe or SATA drive.
             | I've seen a 20% increase on big projects from NVMe alone -
             | I suspect due to the big I/O queue depths of NVMe.
        
             | dist-epoch wrote:
             | A new CPU would probably have double the core count
             | (16c/32t) of your current CPU. C++ compilation can use all
             | the cores.
        
             | the8472 wrote:
             | Modern CPUs also have more cores. Make and Cargo can keep a
             | threadripper fed for a few minutes with a task that would
             | run an hour on a laptop.
        
         | gwill wrote:
         | I do astrophotography and stacking images is the only time I
         | notice CPU performance. It can take close to an hour depending
         | on how much data, so I just go do something else.
        
         | doublepg23 wrote:
         | With the release of Ryzen in 2016/2017 the bare minimum
         | upgrades Intel was pushing YOY no longer worked in the market.
         | Since then the CPU space has been _very_ exciting, you 've been
         | missing out.
        
         | spacechild1 wrote:
         | Gaming, video editing, music production, 3D modelling,
         | compiling C++, etc.
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | >> What are people using CPUs for?
         | 
         | I compile C++ code with an AMD 2400G (zen1+) and parallel
         | builds are way faster than single threaded. I also used the
         | same box to add a bunch of parallel paths to the code (using
         | OpenMP) which improved performance of the app by 3x-4x in some
         | cases with little effort.
         | 
         | Compiling a full build is 30-60 seconds for me. If I turn on
         | LTO it's several minutes and that's with parallel builds -j
         | 
         | I'm aiming to get a Zen4 or Zen5 with 8 cores one of these
         | days. That should give about 4x speed boost. The new GPU has
         | AV1 support too!
        
         | hwbunny wrote:
         | That's why most of the review sites never show older, just
         | current, maybe previous generation of cpus with reviews.
        
         | pi-rat wrote:
         | Whenever bazel prints that it's compiling one of the rust parts
         | of the codebase at work, then I mutter something about needing
         | more faster better CPUs, and go fetch a cup of coffee..
        
           | karolist wrote:
           | Why not remote builds? https://bazel.build/remote/rbe
        
         | ActorNightly wrote:
         | I have a laptop with a 4080 and AMD chip. With Nvidia Prime,
         | you can basically use the chip integrate graphics that are a
         | lot more power efficient, and make the battery last way longer.
        
         | brucethemoose2 wrote:
         | Actually... machine learning.
         | 
         | One would think its all GPU. But you'd be suprised how single-
         | core-speed limited parts of certain tasks are.
        
         | deeth_starr_v wrote:
         | Modern typescript based web-app ... you're going to want the
         | fastest single core speed cpu & nvme possible to make it not
         | suck.
        
       | everyone wrote:
       | I got a Ryzen 7 2700X, cus it seemed to have good benchmarks for
       | the price.
       | 
       | I have a vague feeling I might have been happier with less cores
       | but faster ones. A lot of games put all, or almost all, their
       | load on one core only, particularly older games. A lot of old
       | games have amazing modpacks for them nowadays and I often run
       | into CPU bound slowdown and lagspikes in stuff like Stalker
       | GAMMA, Rlcraft, Supreme commander forged alliance forever.
       | 
       | Overall I just dont know much about CPUs and just got one that
       | was recommended by people at the time.
        
         | tracker1 wrote:
         | If there's an updated BIOS for your board, going to a 5700X3D
         | or 5800X3D is a drop in replacement (maybe a third party tower
         | cooler if you're running stock.
         | 
         | Would be a noticeable experience difference, especially in
         | games.
        
           | RussianCow wrote:
           | I'll add that this will likely only make a significant
           | difference if your GPU is relatively powerful. If you're
           | still rocking an RX 480 or similar, the GPU is going to be
           | your bottleneck in most games and upgrading the CPU won't
           | make as big a difference. I went from a 1700X to a 5900X with
           | an RX 580, and I only noticed a difference in one game until
           | I upgraded the GPU.
        
             | tracker1 wrote:
             | Fair enough... I tend to do GPU upgrade mine often than
             | system, wasn't thinking about it. That said. Still a big
             | difference for a lot of use cases.
        
             | baobun wrote:
             | 5700G might be a great upgrade from a 2700X.
             | 
             | Better performance at lower TDP and the integrated graphics
             | are impressive. Even if you do end up with a discrete GPU,
             | being able to do passthrough with a secondary can be quite
             | useful.
        
         | AdrianB1 wrote:
         | I also had one, it was a great CPU for those days. But several
         | generations passed, games want more performance from CPU and
         | GPU, I retired that 2700 in a server that sees less
         | utilization.
         | 
         | For the past 30 years the best CPU of a few years ago can have
         | less performance than the low end of today, that is evolution.
        
       | binary132 wrote:
       | I just want to see an X3D series APU with a gigantic video cache.
        
         | AdrianB1 wrote:
         | That would be irrelevant, tens of MB of cache do not cover for
         | Gigabytes of slow memory for textures. Modern games use 4-8 GB
         | of RAM, mostly for HD textures. Screen buffers are already in
         | the cache.
        
         | undersuit wrote:
         | I think it's gotta be big, to be worth it. The X3D dies are
         | tiny and the additional SRAM is flanked by unused silicon to
         | keep the package a uniform shape.
         | 
         | The lowest end Radeon 7600 still has 8MB of infinity cache.
         | 
         | Giving an APU 64MB of cache would be a mistake at current
         | performamne levels, giving it 4MB might not be worth the time
         | or silicon or the 4MB SRAM die floats away from the wind
         | generated by the place and pick.
        
       | betaby wrote:
       | Does hardware accelerated video decoding woks in Chrome on Linux
       | for that CPU?
        
       | NohatCoder wrote:
       | This review seems to miss one of the most important competitors.
       | The Ryzen 5 7600 costs only $20 more, and performs a good deal
       | better for not a whole lot more power. I don't think there is a
       | lot of customers to whom the iGPU difference is important, but
       | not important enough to get a discreet graphics card.
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | These days I noticed that my laptop, which has 32GB of RAM, is
       | only capable of using 16GB of RAM, because the other 16GB are
       | reserved by Windows 11 for "shared GPU memory"
       | 
       | This Dell Precision 3541 with an i9-9880H and a 4GB VRAM Quadro
       | P620 runs just fine with Ubuntu, but in Windows 11, as I said,
       | the integrated GPU as well as the Quadro get the "shared GPU
       | memory".
       | 
       | For me the 4GB of the Quadro, which Chrome and other apps are
       | using, is more than enough. The iGPU barely gets used and the
       | BIOS has reserved 128MB of dedicated memory for it.
       | 
       | Windows doesn't allow me to change how much memory is assigned to
       | the "shared GPU memory", so 16GB of RAM is empty while the other
       | 16GB are getting stressed to an extreme, so that the machine
       | becomes unusable.
       | 
       | Now, since this 5800G has an integrated GPU, I wonder if it has
       | the same problem with Windows 11.
       | 
       | Any Windows experts in here who know how to fix the issue (the
       | registry fix with "DedicatedSegmentSize" has no effect)?
        
         | szatkus wrote:
         | Usually you can modify the amount of RAM dedicated to the GPU
         | in BIOS.
        
         | RussianCow wrote:
         | I believe most (all?) machines allow you to configure this
         | through the UEFI interface (pre-boot). Search your laptop model
         | and you should find a way to change the amount of RAM dedicated
         | to the integrated GPU.
        
           | qwertox wrote:
           | Dell's BIOS has no option to change it, but it says that it
           | has reserved 128MB for it.
           | 
           | As I said, Ubuntu has zero issues with handing 28GB+ RAM to
           | applications, so this is convincingly a Windows thing and not
           | something related to the BIOS.
           | 
           | While searching for a solution there's another person having
           | this issue with a Gigabyte Z97-D3H-CF mainboard. He has 32GB
           | RAM and half of it goes to "Shared Video Memory". I
           | downloaded the manual and the relevant section reads
           | 
           | `Intel Processor Graphics Memory Allocation: Allows you to
           | set the onboard graphics memory size. Options are: 32M~1024M.
           | (Default: 64M)`
           | 
           | So the mainboard has no option for 16GB "Shared Video
           | Memory", yet Windows 10 is causing this problem to him [0].
           | 
           | For me the "Works in Ubuntu" is what makes me disbelieve the
           | BIOS-settings claims.
           | 
           | [0] https://answers.microsoft.com/en-
           | us/windows/forum/all/change...
        
             | ntauthority wrote:
             | The reserved memory would show up as 'dedicated' memory.
             | Shared is just the amount of host memory that can be
             | assigned to graphics resources, which usually equals the
             | system memory or some amount derived from it.
             | 
             | If the full amount of system memory isn't showing on
             | Windows that's likely an unrelated issue you're
             | experiencing (for example with UEFI/BIOS memory mapping
             | mismatching whatever else) and it working on Linux implies
             | that either Linux gets fed different memory layouts or it
             | parses this broken case fine unlike Windows.
             | 
             | If applications aren't using all the memory, and it's also
             | not showing up as cached, that's odd as Windows usually
             | tends to target around 80% of physical memory usage (unless
             | you're really not using that many apps or there's another
             | driver issue going on). Different OSes account for memory
             | usage differently, and there's rarely one single 'memory
             | used' indicator in modern operating systems.
        
               | qwertox wrote:
               | > If the full amount of system memory isn't showing on
               | Windows that's likely an unrelated issue
               | 
               | Full amount of system memory is seen by Windows. It just
               | refuses to hand out more than 16GB of RAM to it so I
               | assume (maybe wrongly) that this is related to the other
               | 16GB which the GPUs get assigned to but have no use for.
               | 
               | The memory graph in the task manager (Performance) never
               | goes above 50%.
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | I think you might be making a confusion here.
         | 
         | I have an AMD Ryzen APU laptop also with 32GB of RAM and also
         | with Windows 11 and yes just like in your case, it says in task
         | manager GPU tab that 16GB are shared GPU memory, but like the
         | name says, it's shared and not reserved, meaning the GPU can
         | use up to 16GB of system RAM for textures and stuff but CPU
         | apps are allowed to use nearly all the 32GB of RAM minus what
         | you reserved exclusively for the GPU in BIOS and what the GPU
         | is currently using on top of that.
         | 
         | And I know because I saw apps (not games) use nearly all my 32
         | gigs of ram.
        
           | qwertox wrote:
           | But then why do my apps not use more than 16GB RAM?
           | Everything together never surpasses 16GB RAM (maybe a bit,
           | because it gets compressed). And in the meantime the GPUs
           | show <1% RAM usage.
           | 
           | And Ubuntu has no issues with it, while Windows crawls on its
           | knees once that limit is reached.
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | No idea. Maybe a driver issue. Have you played around with
             | drivers? From Dell's website versus Intel's website.
             | 
             | Have you tried a fresh install of Windows 11 and not an
             | upgrade from 10?
             | 
             | Ask on the Dell forums or subreddits. Maybe there's others
             | out there with this issue.
        
         | vwoolf wrote:
         | _runs just fine with Ubuntu_
         | 
         | Maybe that is the answer?
        
       | tremon wrote:
       | It's only just below $200 though. In my opinion, it's too close
       | to the price of the 8600G which has a dedicated NPU, twice the
       | graphics core count and, more importantly in my opinion, has
       | twice the available PCIe lanes: the 8500G only has 14 in total,
       | of which 8 go to the southbridge -- the other 6 will be shared
       | between the PCIe x16 slot and the first NVMe drive.
        
       | chem83 wrote:
       | Good opportunity to remember that AVX-512 is more than 512 bit
       | vectors. Too bad that Intel is dropping it from their consumer
       | CPUs.
       | 
       | https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@rygorous/110572829749524388
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | Isn't AVX 512 very useful for emulating PS3 and Xbox 360 games?
        
         | xeeeeeeeeeeenu wrote:
         | A few months ago Intel announced AVX10, which is basically
         | AVX-512 but without mandatory 512-bit vectors:
         | 
         | https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intels-new-avx10-brings-av...
        
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