[HN Gopher] High coffee consumption, brain volume and risk of de...
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High coffee consumption, brain volume and risk of dementia and
stroke
Author : robg
Score : 41 points
Date : 2024-02-06 20:48 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.tandfonline.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.tandfonline.com)
| nabla9 wrote:
| The article is not claiming causal link, but this is still
| interesting.
|
| >After full covariate adjustment, consumption of >6 cups/day was
| associated with 53% higher odds of dementia compared to
| consumption of 1-2 cups/day
|
| Coffee is stimulant just like some Alzheimer medications used to
| treat symptoms. It would be interesting to see if people increase
| coffee consumption with cognitive decline.
| llamaLord wrote:
| Considering the very early effects of dementia start to impact
| people sometimes decades before it becomes bad enough that they
| are diagnosed, it's certainly possible that extreme coffee
| consumption is some kind of self-medication mechanism.
|
| Anecdotally, I've seen this a lot with adults with undiagnosed
| ADHD (including myself until 26). Caffeine can be a (very
| shitty) alternative to proper stimulant medication that people
| don't realise they actually need because of a medical issue. So
| the end up drinking 4-5 coffees a day instead.
| doubled112 wrote:
| I've been accused of self medicating with coffee before by a
| guy who was diagnosed with ADHD in his 40s.
|
| It was funny at first, but then he started pointing things
| out. Want to ride bikes? We can get coffee on our travels.
|
| I jest, kind of.
| whizzter wrote:
| Not far fetched at all, seems there's been studies showing a
| correlation between ADHD and Dementia between genrations. A
| big question for me is if the ADHD was always even in the
| older generations there but was non-diagnosed?
|
| https://news.ki.se/link-between-adhd-and-dementia-across-
| gen...
| terramoto wrote:
| Wasnt this study made in the UK where most people lack
| vitamin D, which is also associated with dementia and
| depression?
| lawlessone wrote:
| >alternative to proper stimulant medication
|
| Nicotine will do it too.
|
| Nicotine is a lot harder to stop though.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| I'm wagering that these people are just chronically under-
| slept, using higher amounts of coffee to compensate. The link
| between chronic poor sleep and dementia is well established.
| hiq wrote:
| Doesn't coffee impact sleep quality as well? At 6 cups a day,
| I'd expect some caffeine left in the body when sleeping.
| daniel_reetz wrote:
| That is interesting. I wonder if it's simply the cadmium and
| lead found in coffee concentrate in heavy users.
| greesil wrote:
| Caffeine does raise blood pressure. You also drink more of you
| don't sleep enough. Who knows.
| nomel wrote:
| And, it significantly disrupts sleep if you drink it 6 hours
| before bedtime [1]. Poor sleep is linked to dementia [2] risk.
|
| [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3805807/#:~:te
| x....
|
| [2] https://www.harvardpilgrim.org/hapiguide/understanding-
| the-c....
| owlstuffing wrote:
| > consumption of >6 cups/day was associated with 53% higher odds
| of dementia compared to consumption of 1-2 cups/day (fully
| adjusted OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.28, 1.83)
|
| 6+ cups! That's a cranial marinade.
| doubled112 wrote:
| My mom, both of my sisters and I drink it by the pot. Each of
| us, every day.
|
| 6 cups? That doesn't sound like enough coffee to me.
| op00to wrote:
| I can't even drink a single cup of coffee without shaking and
| getting intense anxiety.
| doubled112 wrote:
| Perhaps someday we'll discover a coffee tolerance gene.
| xcv123 wrote:
| The gene is called CYP1A2 with two variants. One variant
| is a rapid caffeine metabolizer. The other is a slow
| caffeine metabolizer.
| https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/liver-detox-genes-
| cyp1a2/
|
| I have the rapid variant but could not sleep well on 6
| cups.
| JonChesterfield wrote:
| That is interesting information. I note that the same
| enzyme breaks down melatonin. If a variant that is
| particularly efficient at caffeine is also particularly
| efficient at breaking down melatonin, the symptom would
| be difficulty getting to sleep independent of amount of
| caffeine, which is totally fixed by taking melatonin
| tablets.
| PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote:
| 6 cups are scrub numbers, if you haven't done that by 10am
| you're behind the curve :P
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> My mom, both of my sisters and I drink it by the pot. Each
| of us, every day. _
|
| Can I ask how's your sleep?
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Sleep was fine. I used to drink it by the pot but I cut
| back mainly because I'd have to piss too much.
| doubled112 wrote:
| Yes, this is my main motivator when I cut back.
|
| If I have to drive a long drive, as an example, I'll skip
| coffee that day. I'd rather save stops.
| doubled112 wrote:
| I seem to sleep as well as I always have.
|
| I go to bed when I am tired. Usually 11pm-1am. I fall
| asleep in a few minutes. Then I wake up about 7am, feeling
| OK. Closer to 6 hours is more normal for me.
|
| I've been like that since I was a teenager and I didn't
| drink coffee then.
| op00to wrote:
| That's like a little more than 2 venti Starbucks.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> more than 2 venti _
|
| Americans will do anything to not use the metric system :)
| zdragnar wrote:
| Venti is the Starbucks name for their largest size cup,
| which holds 20 ounces.
|
| Most people don't really care about the exact, specific
| volume of fluid, they just go by whatever the cup size
| happens to be called.
|
| At least it is more descriptive than the grande or short
| cups, or the small / medium / large at other places (even
| if you have to know that venti is 20 in Italian to make the
| connection).
| PortiaBerries wrote:
| Hell Yeah!!
| Kirby64 wrote:
| The scientific definition of a 'cup' of coffee is important.
| Usually this is defined as 4 ounces of brewed coffee, which
| means a normal mug of coffee (which can fit something like 10
| oz) would be 2.5 cups!
|
| So, for most people's definition of a 'cup' of coffee, they
| really only mean 2.5 'mugs' of coffee.
| OJFord wrote:
| And surely the amount of water is inconsequential, why can't
| we just use grams of actual coffee? Then we don't have to
| worry about how many espressos are in a 10oz mug. (Nevermind
| what that person's considering a standard dose for the
| espresso!)
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Measuring extraction ratio on coffee is difficult and
| wildly varies based on preparation method. The standard
| "cup" assumes 4oz of coffee, using 5oz of brew water (so,
| 1oz stays in the coffee grounds as waste). I believe
| there's also a standard amount of coffee grounds used as
| well, though.
| jna_sh wrote:
| Different brew methods extract differing amounts from the
| coffee, so the amount of water is indeed consequential.
| Same grams of coffee in to a pour-over vs espresso would
| result in different amounts of extracted coffee material
| consumed.
| OJFord wrote:
| True. I'm inclined to think it would be closer than 'do
| whatever you want in order to end up with an Xoz drink'
| though!
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Prep method matters so much though. For comparison, a
| standard double shot of espresso is typically 18g of
| coffee. This would yield approximately 110mg of caffeine.
|
| By comparison, the same 18g brewed using a pour over
| method should yield an 8oz cup of coffee with ... likely
| around 170mg of caffeine.
|
| Check out this James Hoffmann video specifically on this
| topic: https://youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo
| lp4vn wrote:
| I used to drink one liter of coffee a day, and I would prepare
| it in a measured cup by the way so it's not an exaggeration.
| Jcampuzano2 wrote:
| I used to drink along the lines of this much coffee or more. I
| was travelling very often and often working 12+ hour days for
| weeks on end. I look back on those days and just thinking about
| it reminds me of my constantly tweaking eyes, lack of sleep,
| constant hyperactivity, anxiousness, stress etc.
|
| I stopped cold turkey for a while but nowadays have settled on
| more like 1-2 a day and never after a specific time of day (for
| me I hard stop at 3pm). Having any more than this or after this
| time kills my sleep immediately.
| nancyp wrote:
| Fun aside note: To read their privacy policy, you have to agree
| to their privacy policy.
| antegamisou wrote:
| What a fuckin joke post-2007 Internet has become...
| throitallaway wrote:
| What happened in 2007? I'd blame the litigious society that
| we live in.
| lnxg33k1 wrote:
| Id blame neoliberalism
| sgt101 wrote:
| The lack of a result for stroke tells me that this is just a
| fishing expedition.
| mwigdahl wrote:
| It would be interesting to see comparisons to tea and decaf
| coffee, correcting for the amount of caffeine in those beverages.
| They seem to be assuming caffeine is the causal agent here, in
| which case there should be detectable parallels with other
| caffeinated beverages.
| touwer wrote:
| A cup of coffee can be something very different from person to
| person and situation to situation.
|
| Espresso? Weak americano? Strong? And then even: there is often
| more caffeine in a cup of filter coffee than in an espresso.
| Weird but true. So it differs quite a lot what you drink.
|
| I know someone who drinks 15 cups a day, but they are very very
| weak. And another drank 20 stong ones a day. Myself I used to
| drink 10 easily, not anymore
| neither_color wrote:
| Even the same volume(cup) of coffee brewed the exact same way
| will vary in caffeine content based on whether it's a light or
| a dark roast. I wish more studies like this would just list mg
| of caffeine for comparison instead.
| ACV001 wrote:
| PDF download + Online access 48 hours access to
| article PDF & online version Article PDF can be
| downloaded Article PDF can be printed
|
| GBP 48.00
|
| --- About the subject, could be indeed that people with early
| dementia, have sleep deprivation so they need more coffee...
| jxy wrote:
| I can't access the article. Can somebody tell me what is "a cup"
| mentioned in the article? How much water and how much caffeine is
| in one "cup" in this article?
|
| All the comments here mentions different number of "cups", but
| I'm very worried that all are different "cups"
| Mathnerd314 wrote:
| I've looked for this, the BioBank screen is this:
| https://biobank.ndph.ox.ac.uk/showcase/refer.cgi?id=100319
| There is literally no guidance AFAICT. My best estimate is 8 US
| fl oz as per ChatGPT British still use cups to refer to that
| sometimes. And caffeine... it varies even from cup to cup, the
| estimate of 91mg per 8 oz cup is what I use.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Per the article, "Habitual coffee intake was self-reported as
| cups per day, as part of the touchscreen questionnaire at
| base line with the question 'How many cups of coffee do you
| drink a day?' "
|
| Sounds like it's based on the colloquial definition, which
| means... who knows! Self-reported values are very non-
| specific, since my definition of a 'cup' could mean a 24oz
| with an added triple shot... or it could mean a weakly brewed
| cup of instant coffee.
| metaphor wrote:
| Sci-Hub link[1] to the paper.
|
| I think it's safe to conclude that a cup here is in UK terms:
|
| > _Individuals aged 37-73 years were recruited in 22 assessment
| centres across the United Kingdom, between 13 March 2006 and 1
| October 2010._
|
| [1] https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/1028415X.2021.1945858
| drtournier wrote:
| Coffee and tobacco consumption is a known correlation (one of
| many refs https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4158991/).
| Curious to see if authors considered that, as tobacco is one of
| the main aggressors of vascular tissue, which causes dementia in
| the long run.
|
| EDIT 1: Just in time, UK Biobank (almost 500.000 people) study
| pointing to increased longevity with coffee consumers, an
| interesting controversy that just doesn't fit with their smaller
| study conclusion (although overall longevity is a different
| outcome, you would expect to find more dementia in older people)
| https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/coffee-lo...
| everdrive wrote:
| Is this just related to caffeine, or coffee in general? I drink a
| LOT of decaf, which probably ends up being 2-4 cups of "real"
| coffee.
| JonChesterfield wrote:
| Stupid publishing model from the dark ages
| https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/1...
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Could coffee be a proxy for a high-stress, mentally-taxing, low-
| sleep-quality lifestyle? How did they take their coffee? With
| lots of sugar?
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