[HN Gopher] High coffee consumption, brain volume and risk of de...
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       High coffee consumption, brain volume and risk of dementia and
       stroke
        
       Author : robg
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2024-02-06 20:48 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.tandfonline.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.tandfonline.com)
        
       | nabla9 wrote:
       | The article is not claiming causal link, but this is still
       | interesting.
       | 
       | >After full covariate adjustment, consumption of >6 cups/day was
       | associated with 53% higher odds of dementia compared to
       | consumption of 1-2 cups/day
       | 
       | Coffee is stimulant just like some Alzheimer medications used to
       | treat symptoms. It would be interesting to see if people increase
       | coffee consumption with cognitive decline.
        
         | llamaLord wrote:
         | Considering the very early effects of dementia start to impact
         | people sometimes decades before it becomes bad enough that they
         | are diagnosed, it's certainly possible that extreme coffee
         | consumption is some kind of self-medication mechanism.
         | 
         | Anecdotally, I've seen this a lot with adults with undiagnosed
         | ADHD (including myself until 26). Caffeine can be a (very
         | shitty) alternative to proper stimulant medication that people
         | don't realise they actually need because of a medical issue. So
         | the end up drinking 4-5 coffees a day instead.
        
           | doubled112 wrote:
           | I've been accused of self medicating with coffee before by a
           | guy who was diagnosed with ADHD in his 40s.
           | 
           | It was funny at first, but then he started pointing things
           | out. Want to ride bikes? We can get coffee on our travels.
           | 
           | I jest, kind of.
        
           | whizzter wrote:
           | Not far fetched at all, seems there's been studies showing a
           | correlation between ADHD and Dementia between genrations. A
           | big question for me is if the ADHD was always even in the
           | older generations there but was non-diagnosed?
           | 
           | https://news.ki.se/link-between-adhd-and-dementia-across-
           | gen...
        
           | terramoto wrote:
           | Wasnt this study made in the UK where most people lack
           | vitamin D, which is also associated with dementia and
           | depression?
        
           | lawlessone wrote:
           | >alternative to proper stimulant medication
           | 
           | Nicotine will do it too.
           | 
           | Nicotine is a lot harder to stop though.
        
         | lr4444lr wrote:
         | I'm wagering that these people are just chronically under-
         | slept, using higher amounts of coffee to compensate. The link
         | between chronic poor sleep and dementia is well established.
        
           | hiq wrote:
           | Doesn't coffee impact sleep quality as well? At 6 cups a day,
           | I'd expect some caffeine left in the body when sleeping.
        
         | daniel_reetz wrote:
         | That is interesting. I wonder if it's simply the cadmium and
         | lead found in coffee concentrate in heavy users.
        
       | greesil wrote:
       | Caffeine does raise blood pressure. You also drink more of you
       | don't sleep enough. Who knows.
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | And, it significantly disrupts sleep if you drink it 6 hours
         | before bedtime [1]. Poor sleep is linked to dementia [2] risk.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3805807/#:~:te
         | x....
         | 
         | [2] https://www.harvardpilgrim.org/hapiguide/understanding-
         | the-c....
        
       | owlstuffing wrote:
       | > consumption of >6 cups/day was associated with 53% higher odds
       | of dementia compared to consumption of 1-2 cups/day (fully
       | adjusted OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.28, 1.83)
       | 
       | 6+ cups! That's a cranial marinade.
        
         | doubled112 wrote:
         | My mom, both of my sisters and I drink it by the pot. Each of
         | us, every day.
         | 
         | 6 cups? That doesn't sound like enough coffee to me.
        
           | op00to wrote:
           | I can't even drink a single cup of coffee without shaking and
           | getting intense anxiety.
        
             | doubled112 wrote:
             | Perhaps someday we'll discover a coffee tolerance gene.
        
               | xcv123 wrote:
               | The gene is called CYP1A2 with two variants. One variant
               | is a rapid caffeine metabolizer. The other is a slow
               | caffeine metabolizer.
               | https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/liver-detox-genes-
               | cyp1a2/
               | 
               | I have the rapid variant but could not sleep well on 6
               | cups.
        
               | JonChesterfield wrote:
               | That is interesting information. I note that the same
               | enzyme breaks down melatonin. If a variant that is
               | particularly efficient at caffeine is also particularly
               | efficient at breaking down melatonin, the symptom would
               | be difficulty getting to sleep independent of amount of
               | caffeine, which is totally fixed by taking melatonin
               | tablets.
        
           | PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote:
           | 6 cups are scrub numbers, if you haven't done that by 10am
           | you're behind the curve :P
        
           | FirmwareBurner wrote:
           | _> My mom, both of my sisters and I drink it by the pot. Each
           | of us, every day. _
           | 
           | Can I ask how's your sleep?
        
             | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
             | Sleep was fine. I used to drink it by the pot but I cut
             | back mainly because I'd have to piss too much.
        
               | doubled112 wrote:
               | Yes, this is my main motivator when I cut back.
               | 
               | If I have to drive a long drive, as an example, I'll skip
               | coffee that day. I'd rather save stops.
        
             | doubled112 wrote:
             | I seem to sleep as well as I always have.
             | 
             | I go to bed when I am tired. Usually 11pm-1am. I fall
             | asleep in a few minutes. Then I wake up about 7am, feeling
             | OK. Closer to 6 hours is more normal for me.
             | 
             | I've been like that since I was a teenager and I didn't
             | drink coffee then.
        
         | op00to wrote:
         | That's like a little more than 2 venti Starbucks.
        
           | FirmwareBurner wrote:
           | _> more than 2 venti _
           | 
           | Americans will do anything to not use the metric system :)
        
             | zdragnar wrote:
             | Venti is the Starbucks name for their largest size cup,
             | which holds 20 ounces.
             | 
             | Most people don't really care about the exact, specific
             | volume of fluid, they just go by whatever the cup size
             | happens to be called.
             | 
             | At least it is more descriptive than the grande or short
             | cups, or the small / medium / large at other places (even
             | if you have to know that venti is 20 in Italian to make the
             | connection).
        
             | PortiaBerries wrote:
             | Hell Yeah!!
        
         | Kirby64 wrote:
         | The scientific definition of a 'cup' of coffee is important.
         | Usually this is defined as 4 ounces of brewed coffee, which
         | means a normal mug of coffee (which can fit something like 10
         | oz) would be 2.5 cups!
         | 
         | So, for most people's definition of a 'cup' of coffee, they
         | really only mean 2.5 'mugs' of coffee.
        
           | OJFord wrote:
           | And surely the amount of water is inconsequential, why can't
           | we just use grams of actual coffee? Then we don't have to
           | worry about how many espressos are in a 10oz mug. (Nevermind
           | what that person's considering a standard dose for the
           | espresso!)
        
             | Kirby64 wrote:
             | Measuring extraction ratio on coffee is difficult and
             | wildly varies based on preparation method. The standard
             | "cup" assumes 4oz of coffee, using 5oz of brew water (so,
             | 1oz stays in the coffee grounds as waste). I believe
             | there's also a standard amount of coffee grounds used as
             | well, though.
        
             | jna_sh wrote:
             | Different brew methods extract differing amounts from the
             | coffee, so the amount of water is indeed consequential.
             | Same grams of coffee in to a pour-over vs espresso would
             | result in different amounts of extracted coffee material
             | consumed.
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | True. I'm inclined to think it would be closer than 'do
               | whatever you want in order to end up with an Xoz drink'
               | though!
        
               | Kirby64 wrote:
               | Prep method matters so much though. For comparison, a
               | standard double shot of espresso is typically 18g of
               | coffee. This would yield approximately 110mg of caffeine.
               | 
               | By comparison, the same 18g brewed using a pour over
               | method should yield an 8oz cup of coffee with ... likely
               | around 170mg of caffeine.
               | 
               | Check out this James Hoffmann video specifically on this
               | topic: https://youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo
        
         | lp4vn wrote:
         | I used to drink one liter of coffee a day, and I would prepare
         | it in a measured cup by the way so it's not an exaggeration.
        
         | Jcampuzano2 wrote:
         | I used to drink along the lines of this much coffee or more. I
         | was travelling very often and often working 12+ hour days for
         | weeks on end. I look back on those days and just thinking about
         | it reminds me of my constantly tweaking eyes, lack of sleep,
         | constant hyperactivity, anxiousness, stress etc.
         | 
         | I stopped cold turkey for a while but nowadays have settled on
         | more like 1-2 a day and never after a specific time of day (for
         | me I hard stop at 3pm). Having any more than this or after this
         | time kills my sleep immediately.
        
       | nancyp wrote:
       | Fun aside note: To read their privacy policy, you have to agree
       | to their privacy policy.
        
         | antegamisou wrote:
         | What a fuckin joke post-2007 Internet has become...
        
           | throitallaway wrote:
           | What happened in 2007? I'd blame the litigious society that
           | we live in.
        
             | lnxg33k1 wrote:
             | Id blame neoliberalism
        
       | sgt101 wrote:
       | The lack of a result for stroke tells me that this is just a
       | fishing expedition.
        
       | mwigdahl wrote:
       | It would be interesting to see comparisons to tea and decaf
       | coffee, correcting for the amount of caffeine in those beverages.
       | They seem to be assuming caffeine is the causal agent here, in
       | which case there should be detectable parallels with other
       | caffeinated beverages.
        
       | touwer wrote:
       | A cup of coffee can be something very different from person to
       | person and situation to situation.
       | 
       | Espresso? Weak americano? Strong? And then even: there is often
       | more caffeine in a cup of filter coffee than in an espresso.
       | Weird but true. So it differs quite a lot what you drink.
       | 
       | I know someone who drinks 15 cups a day, but they are very very
       | weak. And another drank 20 stong ones a day. Myself I used to
       | drink 10 easily, not anymore
        
         | neither_color wrote:
         | Even the same volume(cup) of coffee brewed the exact same way
         | will vary in caffeine content based on whether it's a light or
         | a dark roast. I wish more studies like this would just list mg
         | of caffeine for comparison instead.
        
       | ACV001 wrote:
       | PDF download + Online access                   48 hours access to
       | article PDF & online version         Article PDF can be
       | downloaded         Article PDF can be printed
       | 
       | GBP 48.00
       | 
       | --- About the subject, could be indeed that people with early
       | dementia, have sleep deprivation so they need more coffee...
        
       | jxy wrote:
       | I can't access the article. Can somebody tell me what is "a cup"
       | mentioned in the article? How much water and how much caffeine is
       | in one "cup" in this article?
       | 
       | All the comments here mentions different number of "cups", but
       | I'm very worried that all are different "cups"
        
         | Mathnerd314 wrote:
         | I've looked for this, the BioBank screen is this:
         | https://biobank.ndph.ox.ac.uk/showcase/refer.cgi?id=100319
         | There is literally no guidance AFAICT. My best estimate is 8 US
         | fl oz as per ChatGPT British still use cups to refer to that
         | sometimes. And caffeine... it varies even from cup to cup, the
         | estimate of 91mg per 8 oz cup is what I use.
        
           | Kirby64 wrote:
           | Per the article, "Habitual coffee intake was self-reported as
           | cups per day, as part of the touchscreen questionnaire at
           | base line with the question 'How many cups of coffee do you
           | drink a day?' "
           | 
           | Sounds like it's based on the colloquial definition, which
           | means... who knows! Self-reported values are very non-
           | specific, since my definition of a 'cup' could mean a 24oz
           | with an added triple shot... or it could mean a weakly brewed
           | cup of instant coffee.
        
         | metaphor wrote:
         | Sci-Hub link[1] to the paper.
         | 
         | I think it's safe to conclude that a cup here is in UK terms:
         | 
         | > _Individuals aged 37-73 years were recruited in 22 assessment
         | centres across the United Kingdom, between 13 March 2006 and 1
         | October 2010._
         | 
         | [1] https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/1028415X.2021.1945858
        
       | drtournier wrote:
       | Coffee and tobacco consumption is a known correlation (one of
       | many refs https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4158991/).
       | Curious to see if authors considered that, as tobacco is one of
       | the main aggressors of vascular tissue, which causes dementia in
       | the long run.
       | 
       | EDIT 1: Just in time, UK Biobank (almost 500.000 people) study
       | pointing to increased longevity with coffee consumers, an
       | interesting controversy that just doesn't fit with their smaller
       | study conclusion (although overall longevity is a different
       | outcome, you would expect to find more dementia in older people)
       | https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/coffee-lo...
        
       | everdrive wrote:
       | Is this just related to caffeine, or coffee in general? I drink a
       | LOT of decaf, which probably ends up being 2-4 cups of "real"
       | coffee.
        
       | JonChesterfield wrote:
       | Stupid publishing model from the dark ages
       | https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/1...
        
       | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
       | Could coffee be a proxy for a high-stress, mentally-taxing, low-
       | sleep-quality lifestyle? How did they take their coffee? With
       | lots of sugar?
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-06 23:01 UTC)