[HN Gopher] Child Labour in Cocoa Production
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       Child Labour in Cocoa Production
        
       Author : Red_Tarsius
       Score  : 21 points
       Date   : 2024-02-06 20:04 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | nickthegreek wrote:
       | John Oliver covered this issue last year as well.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwHMDjc7qJ8
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Chocolate brand largely focused around child labor and
       | exploitation in chocolate production:
       | https://tonyschocolonely.com/us/en/our-mission
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | What's pretty telling is that nowhere in their brand statements
         | have they confirmed their chocolate is child-labor free. What's
         | more:
         | 
         | > We believe in empowering cocoa farmers and people in cocoa
         | communities with a certain level of consciousness about what is
         | and isn't allowed. It's fine for children to help out on the
         | farm after school and learn about how cocoa is grown, but it's
         | important that farmers and communities know where to draw the
         | line. They need to understand that certain types of work, such
         | as heavy lifting, are harmful to children. Cooperatives have to
         | do their part in taking responsibility to combat illegal child
         | labor.
         | 
         | By their own admission they are not trying to end child labor -
         | just improve the practice.
         | 
         | (Which I think is noble, I just don't think people appreciate
         | how difficult eliminating child labor is)
        
           | giraffe_lady wrote:
           | About 15 years ago when I was still in the food industry I
           | remember a chocolatier telling me she didn't believe it was
           | possible to be genuinely completely sure there was no child
           | or slave labor in your chocolate.
           | 
           | You could get the number low, possibly zero, you could with a
           | lot of effort get a snapshot of your supply chain at a point
           | where the number was plausibly zero, but you couldn't
           | guarantee it was actually _at_ zero over any length of time.
           | It 's entirely possible the situation has improved since
           | then, I have no particular knowledge either way.
        
           | MrJohz wrote:
           | I mean, we haven't eliminated child labour in most Western
           | countries - there's still plenty of kids walking their
           | neighbours dogs, babysitting, cleaning cars, delivering
           | newspapers etc. I don't think "prevent all children from ever
           | doing any work" is the standard expectation here.
           | 
           | And while it's not necessarily about child labour, they're
           | very explicit that they won't call their chocolate slave-
           | free, and I imagine similar logic applies to child labour:
           | https://tonyschocolonely.com/uk/en/why-we-still-wont-say-
           | wer...
           | 
           | EDIT: to be clear, exploitative child labour, and child
           | labour at the expense of health, education, or resources are
           | completely immoral. Children should work because they choose
           | to and because they get something out of it, not because the
           | industry needs all the hands it can get at in order to
           | function. However, I dislike this idea of "but it's not
           | perfect, so should we really support it?" The work that
           | companies like Tony's do is incredibly important, and -
           | slightly less importantly - they produce some of the best
           | chocolate on the market (and also not at outrageous prices).
           | So this clearly isn't a pipe dream of theirs that will never
           | succeed.
        
         | pests wrote:
         | Your wording makes it seem they exploit child labor and
         | exploitation.
         | 
         | Slightly kidding but reminds me of the "I support brain cancer"
         | t shirts which I'm sure we all know what they were trying to
         | say.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Similar: "Cocoa harvested by kids as young as 5 in Ghana"
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38491826 111 points 67 days
       | ago
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | The bitter reality is that in a primary agricultural household
       | economy, there will be child labor. This has been the case
       | through history, and even in the United States the child labor
       | laws exempt work on a family farm. The economics just really
       | don't work out otherwise.
       | 
       | If in a fit of "virtue" we decide to ban that without taking the
       | economic realities into consideration, you are likely to make it
       | far worse. Living with your family and working with them
       | harvesting cocoa is far better than starving, begging, or
       | prostitution.
        
         | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
         | This is certainly an important thing to keep in mind but at
         | least some of these situations aren't so happy:
         | 
         | > In 2001, the report _A Taste of Slavery: How Your Chocolate
         | May be Tainted_ won a George Polk Award. In it were claims that
         | traffickers promised paid work, housing, and education to
         | children who were forced to labour and undergo severe abuse,
         | that some children were held forcibly on farms and worked up to
         | 100 hours per week, and that attempted escapees were beaten. It
         | quoted a former slave:  "The beatings were a part of my life"
         | and "when you didn't hurry, you were beaten."
        
           | legitster wrote:
           | To OP's point, sending children off to work in a farm is
           | still an unhappy choice of desperation.
           | 
           | This is also an example from over 20 years ago - before NGOs
           | and brands really began policing this stuff. It could be
           | there has been _some_ improvement since then.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | The world was also MUCH poorer 20 years ago.
             | 
             | A good friend of mine is from a (still) poor farming family
             | from rural Vietnam.
             | 
             | When they were growing up on their coffee farm in the late
             | 90s/early 2000s they lived in what was basically a mud hut
             | with dirt floors, and helped with the harvest directly.
             | 
             | That friend (and their siblings) all ended up attending
             | college in Saigon and getting white collar jobs, and their
             | family still runs the same farm.
             | 
             | The difference was agricultural technology and automation
             | became much cheaper, so there was less of a need to have a
             | lot of kids do manual labor, so they sent their kids thru
             | K-12 and later college.
             | 
             | My dad's generation had a similar thing happen as well in
             | North India after the Green Revolution.
             | 
             | His dad was working on harvesting, sowing, and other
             | agricultural related work at all times when he was a kid,
             | yet when the Green Revolution happened - and with it
             | reforms in rural financing along with cheap agricultural
             | technology - there was no reason for my dad to live that
             | kind of lifestyle, so he was able to attend school instead
             | of rotting out in a field.
             | 
             | Democratizing relevant agricultural technology AND
             | enhancing rural financing has a night and day difference in
             | alleviating rural poverty.
        
       | FirmwareBurner wrote:
       | Samee with Coffee beans.
        
         | tamiral wrote:
         | most of the farmers work in a small hold farm that may be in
         | part of a cooperative of their piece of land, so the whole
         | family would contribute to any workload.
        
       | legitster wrote:
       | This is a hard issue for me to thumb my nose at. Child labor was
       | the historic norm for all pre-industrial societies. And to a
       | degree, child labor is _still_ practiced in Western agriculture -
       | ask anyone who grew up in a farming community.
       | 
       | As far as I understand, the majority of chocolate production in
       | places in Africa is still people hauling sacks of cacao into a
       | market to be hauled away by middlemen. The only real immediate
       | solution is to industrialize the supply chain (corporately
       | managed plantations and processing plants), or stop consuming
       | products from these regions altogether.
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-06 23:02 UTC)