[HN Gopher] Netflix: Piracy Is Difficult to Compete Against and ...
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       Netflix: Piracy Is Difficult to Compete Against and Growing Rapidly
        
       Author : notamy
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2024-02-04 21:44 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (torrentfreak.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (torrentfreak.com)
        
       | blowsand wrote:
       | Are these claims actually quantified by any of the companies
       | mentioned in the article?
       | 
       | While there's no disagreement that "piracy" occurs, I'd love to
       | see refreshed numbers around "potential paying customers" vs
       | "because it's there but wouldn't otherwise buy" metrics.
       | 
       | Also, that c&p is lazy and raises an eyebrow.
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | Do they still plan to compete by making their service suck more,
       | through higher prices, more ads, and less content?
       | 
       | I'm so glad I ripped all my DVDs
        
         | SlightlyLeftPad wrote:
         | Amen.
        
         | avg_dev wrote:
         | i read on twitter a while back about some tv writer who was
         | really happy because they managed to find someone who sent them
         | pirated dvds of their work. apparently when disney+ removed the
         | show from their catalog, it was otherwise lost to the world.
         | that is definitely not the promise of streaming services that i
         | remember from when they was first starting to gain popularity.
        
       | StopTheTechies wrote:
       | The common supposition about video is that convenience makes the
       | price worth it versus piracy. It'll be very interesting to see
       | this unfold. Not only are streaming services in direct
       | competition with a free option, but they'll have actual, real,
       | not-market-inevitable competition for their "exclusively-
       | negotiated" tv.
        
         | znkynz wrote:
         | Piracy has evolved too; You only need to look at how automated
         | piracy can become; whether its the end of the people buying
         | access to plex, or the automation offered by users of the
         | Servarr stacks /Sonarr/Radarr etc
         | 
         | Netflix invgestment in UX has lead to theUX being valued around
         | piracy, rather than just downloading files from some website.
        
       | frompdx wrote:
       | It's even harder to compete when you don't have the content users
       | want while charging more than ever.
        
       | aqme28 wrote:
       | I have found myself pirating more and more. Netflix and co aren't
       | just losing on the available content and the price, the actual
       | browsing experience is far better on the illegal streaming site I
       | use.
        
       | PlutoIsAPlanet wrote:
       | Streaming became popular because it was easier than piracy and
       | better than TV (watch anywhere, on demand, pickup where you left
       | off etc).
       | 
       | Streaming is no longer easier than piracy, why pay for 8
       | different services and have to waste your time figuring out whats
       | on what when you can just have one service for free, even if its
       | illegal, and have it all under one roof.
       | 
       | The services have taken the piss and now they'll get the
       | repercussions of it.
        
         | jerjerjer wrote:
         | Streaming also had no ads which is now gated behind even more
         | pricey plans.
        
           | DoughnutHole wrote:
           | Even an "ad-free" Netflix plan is infested with promotion of
           | their in-house productions.
        
           | cocoa19 wrote:
           | Low price and no ads were two of the main selling points to
           | ditch cable (along with stream whenever you want).
           | 
           | We reached the point were price is almost as high as cable
           | was (with the standard 4-5 subscriptions), and we have ads.
           | This is not a surprise to most though, the question has
           | always been when would it happen.
        
         | dgfitz wrote:
         | Of course this is 100% the correct reasoning.
         | 
         | When I was a broke college kid I pirated all the things, and at
         | the time wished, when I could afford it, I'd rather just pay.
         | When I could, I did, for years. Now we're back at the path-of-
         | least-resistance is pirating.
        
           | eastbound wrote:
           | But that means companies must sell for the marginal price of
           | their website's ergonomics, not for the marginal price of
           | producing movies.
           | 
           | (Which is not a big loss, because I can't imagine producing
           | the Netflix knockoffs be a hundredth the price of a 007).
        
         | api wrote:
         | Amazon Prime and Apple TV are easy. Just rent the movie. It's a
         | few bucks like video rental shops back in the old days. You can
         | also buy, though only Apple really allows downloading of bought
         | content.
        
         | achates wrote:
         | Also piracy is a lot better now. With Plex you get to watch
         | anywhere and save your place and there's automation software
         | for torrents.
        
       | bawolff wrote:
       | > Piracy also threatens to damage our business, as its
       | fundamental proposition to consumers is so compelling and
       | difficult to compete against: virtually all content for free,"
       | Netflix writes.
       | 
       | People emphasize the "free" part, but it really is the "all
       | content" part that makes piracy wins.
       | 
       | Especially if you are not in the USA, often specific content
       | isn't available at any price. Even if it is, its split across 5
       | billion different confusing services.
       | 
       | The killer feature of piracy is thar it just works, not that it
       | is free.
        
         | bojan wrote:
         | Now, it doesn't just work. You need to download the thing, find
         | the right format, get it to the TV in one way or another, hope
         | that the subs are good.
         | 
         | Compared to that, it's the streaming that just works. Except
         | when it doesn't.
        
           | beart wrote:
           | Software has completely automated all of these steps. The
           | only barrier is the initial set up, which a non-technical
           | person can figure out over a weekend.
        
             | xattt wrote:
             | [delayed]
        
           | skeaker wrote:
           | Right, streaming can win on convenience but loses so hard on
           | content that it has begun to cancel out any reason to use it.
           | Netflix really was great back when it was just getting really
           | popular and had both consistent content and a just-works
           | video player, but to stay popular it needed to keep both, and
           | it hasn't.
           | 
           | Piracy _can_ do the other things you mentioned automatically
           | by the way, but I agree that it 's less "just-works" for the
           | average person given the setup involved.
        
           | everyone wrote:
           | For me one of the biggest draws of file-sharing is that I
           | find it so easy.
           | 
           | The streaming service way would involve finding where the
           | show is, accounts, credentials, godawful UI, ads, spam,
           | potential malware,+ many other constantly changing and
           | evolving inconveniences.
           | 
           | File-sharing way is just so fast and easy to comprehend for
           | me, search for the show on one site, pick the quality I want,
           | download the files and then do whatever I want with them.
           | Also it hasnt changed in decades.
        
           | lm28469 wrote:
           | There are a lot of websites for illegal streaming, it's plug
           | and play, even easier to use than Netflix, and their catalog
           | is very often up to date with what you can find on torrent
           | trackers
        
         | skeaker wrote:
         | Yep. This video is played for laughs but I was shocked to learn
         | how much of it was true and not just satire:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhv7bgmz64
         | 
         | Content being fragmented and constantly coming and going is a
         | massive problem for users. Netflix used to be the go-to to find
         | just about any given show or film, but has become a mystery box
         | where the contents change on a near-daily basis. Piracy is
         | reliable and simple instead, and works like Netflix used to:
         | Just search up what you want to watch and you're golden. It has
         | been and always will be a service problem.
        
         | ensignavenger wrote:
         | Not only free and all (most), but less hassle, too. A pirate
         | doesn't need to worry about digital restrictions if they
         | haven't upgraded their TV, HDMI cables, and streaming boxes,
         | web broweswers, etc. to all support whatever BS the the big
         | streaming providers are pushing.
        
         | jwells89 wrote:
         | Delayed availability also bolsters piracy. In the age of the
         | internet, people don't want to watch foreign shows weeks or
         | months after they've aired in their country of origin, but
         | within mere hours of original airing so they can ride the
         | global wave of discussion after each episode.
         | 
         | A six month delay for example will completely miss the bulk of
         | the show's online relevance and even a week is enough to
         | seriously dampen enthusiasm in the region. This isn't the 90s
         | or prior decades where viewers are entirely reliant on local
         | licensees to know what's available.
         | 
         | Studios, distributors, and streaming services are seriously
         | shooting themselves in the foot by not pulling all stops to
         | make sure all shows are simultaneously available worldwide.
        
       | mistermann wrote:
       | > When we started looking for similar mentions by other
       | businesses, we stumbled upon similar concerns and, strangely
       | enough, some identical ones. Apparently, there's quite a bit of
       | copying going on, _as SEC filings from several companies include
       | identical passages_.
       | 
       | I smell a coordinated initiative to buy some "democracy".
        
       | chaostheory wrote:
       | What annoys me about Netflix is that they go out of their way to
       | limit the platforms that you can watch their service from.
       | Currently, I cannot watch Netflix with a modern client that
       | streams better than 480P on my Quest headset.
        
       | jMyles wrote:
       | ...it's difficult to compete against even when you have the state
       | willing to make threats of violence on your behalf if they
       | utilize the competing model.
       | 
       | It seems like this says more about the future of so-called
       | "intellectual property" than it does about these particular
       | companies or these particular practices.
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | Piracy is a moral imperative. The internet was supposed to be
       | free and break down barriers. Instead what we have now is a show
       | available in the UK but not available in the US. This is not
       | acceptable.
       | 
       | This plus the fact that actual artists get a pittance, means the
       | flag will fly high till companies learn.
       | 
       | Also piracy has become much more reliable these days. There are
       | systems which will make sure you get 4k streams based on any
       | genre you enjoy. New shows from around the world. No need to wait
       | for Netflix to add it to your countries playlist that to hidden
       | behind garbage UX.
       | 
       | At the end of the day it is about availability, user control,
       | artist benefits and showing the middle finger to large
       | corporations.
       | 
       | That is the hacker mindset. That is what I grew up with in the
       | early 2000s and it is substantially better than what we are
       | "supposed" to do now. Hope that makes sense.
        
         | MattPalmer1086 wrote:
         | No, it absolutely isn't a moral imperative, quite the reverse.
         | 
         | I don't know where you get the idea that the internet was
         | "supposed" to be "free" or why the fact that a global transport
         | network for information exists implies that everything
         | transported over it should not require any payment.
         | 
         | The logical endpoint of your position is that you will get what
         | you pay for: content that costs almost nothing to produce.
        
           | ESTheComposer wrote:
           | The irony here is from their post history they are a business
           | owner that made 4m in profits last year. Guess it's a moral
           | imperative to steal from them eh?
        
         | tacticalturtle wrote:
         | I don't understand how it follows that if artists are paid a
         | pittance, then the moral thing to do is to still consume their
         | content - while depriving them of revenue from residuals.
        
       | alexfromapex wrote:
       | "We cracked down on account sharing, added a bunch of ads, DRM,
       | and are seeing the logical response from annoyed consumers"
        
       | SllX wrote:
       | I mean Netflix has been losing to "just buy it in iTunes" for me
       | for years. I don't watch a lot of movies, but when I do, it
       | usually can't be found anywhere to stream so I just buy it.
       | 
       | Their UI sucks, they don't want to integrate with the Apple TV
       | app on my phone (search, Up Next, immediate access) because of
       | competitive reasons, and they rarely have any decent movies
       | anymore because they turned their entire business model to
       | original serials, where "original" can mean they just bought the
       | international distribution rights.
        
       | avg_dev wrote:
       | > We don't know where these references originate. Netflix has
       | mentioned it for a while, that's for sure, and apparently, the
       | use of this language is widespread and subject to rapid global
       | growth.
       | 
       | lol
        
       | noman-land wrote:
       | I sometimes wonder if more piracy will lead to more product
       | placement directly in content and other insidious advertising
       | strategies that would make up for the content being scooped up
       | for free. It's still millions of eyes, after all.
        
       | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
       | The streaming space desperately needs consolidation right now.
       | 
       | Every rights holder having their own service has killed a lot of
       | the convenience because you'll now need several different
       | services to go through an entire TV show, for instance. And also
       | because all services other than maybe Netflix have garbage
       | software for your various devices. Because every service also has
       | to support 8 different platforms. Video playback and scrubbing is
       | buggy and laggy, the GUI for finding stuff is sluggish. On one
       | service(I don't even remember which, they all blur together in my
       | head), I tried to watch some House MD and half the episodes were
       | missing the English audio track.
        
       | wackget wrote:
       | I have one point which I really feel exemplifies the entire
       | Netflix experience: before you sign up, they do not give you a
       | list of what's available to watch.
       | 
       | Seriously, check out their website. It's basically a landing page
       | which says "give us your money". The prices aren't even
       | displayed.
       | 
       | There is no list of shows, save for a few measly screenshots of
       | featured/well-known titles. There is a search box which lets you
       | search for titles, but nothing like a catalogue of offerings,
       | which is the absolute bare minimum I'd expect to see before
       | purchasing a service.
       | 
       | I really cannot fathom why anyone would willingly give their
       | hard-earned money to a company which doesn't even tell you what
       | you're getting in exchange.
        
       | seventytwo wrote:
       | Well, well, well... its seems we've come full circle.
        
       | SirMaster wrote:
       | Music piracy used to be a big problem. I am not sure if it still
       | is or not?
       | 
       | Anyway, it feels like music piracy isn't close to what it was at
       | its peak and that they figured out how to make it work.
       | 
       | Is there a reason that video is so much different?
        
         | AltF4me wrote:
         | It's not fragmented like video is. You go to your favourite
         | music streaming platform and listen. You don't need to check
         | all 10 services you pay for to work out if the artist is
         | available on it.
        
         | cypress66 wrote:
         | It's more expensive so they are greedier.
        
       | cangeroo wrote:
       | I'm concerned about the artists, the writers, and all the other
       | people who put in the actual work, who deserve a livelihood and
       | recognition.
       | 
       | But the financiers, producers, and distributors have too much
       | power and influence over the culture economy, to an extent where
       | it's not unfair to ask whether they operate like a cartel, with
       | heavy-handed nepotism, blacklisting, and politics.
       | 
       | So yeah, I don't have sympathy for the streaming services.
        
       | j1elo wrote:
       | Only 6hrs ago this comment summarizes a big part of what's wrong
       | with the streaming model today [1]:
       | 
       | > _Disney+ removed Crater ~7 weeks after it was released, purely
       | to reduce residuals and claim losses for lower tax bills[2]._
       | 
       | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39252151
       | 
       | [2]: https://kotaku.com/disney-streaming-crater-tax-rort-scam-
       | wri...
        
       | j-bos wrote:
       | Last week we were going to watch See How They Run on Max, some
       | things came so today we went to watch it... Aaaaand it's gone.
       | 
       | I don't sail and I don't care enough to find an alternative.
       | Today we drown in quality (if you know how to look)
       | entertainment, why should I chase movies and shows that the
       | runners clearly don't care for me to see? I imagine apathy is a
       | bigger competitor to Netflix than even piracy.
        
       | righthand wrote:
       | Consumer: Netflix is hard to pay for when they raise prices twice
       | in 3 months and describe the 2nd price raise as account lock
       | down, the consequences are growing rapidly.
        
         | righthand wrote:
         | I definitely cancelled Netflix but I don't pirate their shows
         | because there's nothing really worth pirating.
        
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