[HN Gopher] Mr. Difficult: William Gaddis and the Problem of Har...
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       Mr. Difficult: William Gaddis and the Problem of Hard-to-Read Books
       (2002)
        
       Author : cocacola1
       Score  : 11 points
       Date   : 2024-02-04 20:38 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (adilegian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (adilegian.com)
        
       | flenserboy wrote:
       | All the reasons I can't stand Franzen's novels are found in this
       | essay. Fascinating.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | " _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
         | people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something._"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
       | geor9e wrote:
       | "The less energy they expend on your prose, the more they'll have
       | left for your ideas." - https://paulgraham.com/simply.html
        
         | geor9e wrote:
         | I can slog through hard-to-read novels. I can decrypt your
         | linguistic puzzles. I sometimes write in a hard-to-read way,
         | but never on purpose. The only people who write that way on
         | purpose are imposters, who camouflage their lack of ideas in
         | infinitely-interpretable word salads. I truly don't believe
         | there is any idea, thinkable by any human mind, that can't be
         | communicated in simple writing. It might take more words, since
         | you aren't taking jargon shortcuts, but it forces you bring
         | your ideas into the full sunlight to face judgement. In all
         | that re-drafting work to communicate simply, entertainingly,
         | and smoothly, the author is forced to improve their ideas.
        
           | ethanbond wrote:
           | > truly don't believe there is any idea, thinkable by any
           | human mind, that can't be communicated in simple writing
           | 
           | I don't see why this would be true at all. Language is an
           | extremely recent innovation, with most biological and
           | conscious experiences happening nowhere in the vicinity of
           | it. Also we _know_ there are ideas that can be expressed in
           | one language and not in another, largely due to the need for
           | cultural conditioning (i.e. repeated firsthand sensory
           | experience)
           | 
           | Here's a trivial example: describe the color blue to someone
           | who has never seen it themselves.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | " _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
         | people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something._"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Mr. Difficult: William Gaddis and the Problem of Hard-to-Read
       | Books (2002)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35395519 -
       | April 2023 (1 comment)
       | 
       |  _William Gaddis: Below Deck on the Ship of Fools_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30974668 - April 2022 (10
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Unrecognizable: William Gaddis's American Pessimism_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25460377 - Dec 2020 (4
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _William Gaddis's Disorderly Inferno_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24839140 - Oct 2020 (2
       | comments)
       | 
       | Not many comments but actually pretty good ones there.
        
       | angelsbrood wrote:
       | :)
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | I took a course on _Ulysses_ at Stanford Extension. All the
       | students were people who wanted to be there, and I had a teacher
       | who 'd been teaching it for 50 years. You can't get a much more
       | ideal environment than that.
       | 
       | This is the canonical _Difficult Book_. So I was hoping to have
       | that elusive pleasure of finally cracking it. You can 't call me
       | unwilling.
       | 
       | Nope. I was unimpressed. I thought that stream-of-consciousness
       | was novel at the time, but now it's routine. Showing how people's
       | minds _really_ work (fragmented): same thing, who cares?
       | 
       |  _Oxen of the Sun_ : the use of 14 or whatever different English
       | prose styles to say the same thing: who TF cares? The teacher
       | enthused, "He can do whatever he wants with the English
       | language!" I thought, "Yeah, so what?"
       | 
       | So I don't think "difficult" is automatically bad, but it's not
       | automatically good, either. "To what end?" is the question I'd
       | ask.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Target audience: "The elite of New York, the elite who are
       | beautiful, thin, anorexic, neurotic, sophisticated, don't smoke,
       | have abortions tri-yearly, are antiseptic, live in lofts or
       | penthouses, this superior species of humanity who read Harper's
       | and The New Yorker."
       | 
       | I used to know someone who wrote for that audience. She was fired
       | for writing this:[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/fashion/13CRITIC.html
        
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