[HN Gopher] Apple fixes zero-day bug in Apple Vision Pro that 'm...
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       Apple fixes zero-day bug in Apple Vision Pro that 'may have been
       exploited'
        
       Author : arkadiyt
       Score  : 84 points
       Date   : 2024-02-04 17:32 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (techcrunch.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (techcrunch.com)
        
       | judge2020 wrote:
       | Possibly related -
       | https://x.com/0xjprx/status/1753575170101461266?s=20
       | 
       | > The world's first(?) kernel exploit for Vision Pro- on launch
       | day!
       | 
       | image 1:
       | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFXzO5kXMAA-y7k?format=jpg&name=...
       | 
       | image 2:
       | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFXzQOJWYAA41sV?format=jpg&name=...
        
         | charcircuit wrote:
         | That only shows a kernel panic. An exploit would prevent the
         | kernel from crashing.
        
           | swozey wrote:
           | How can malware prevent a panic? Its process is priority over
           | pid1? I'm very ignorant to this stuff. Wouldn't the kernel
           | know it's being manipulated, like a startup/JIT checksum or
           | something?
        
             | mort96 wrote:
             | A kernel panic is caused by some serious issue in either
             | the kernel or the hardware. In itself, it's relatively
             | "harmless": it just means the OS stops doing anything and
             | you need to hard reboot the machine (such as by cutting
             | power).
             | 
             | However, if the kernel panic is caused by a software bug
             | (rather than something like a broken RAM stick), then the
             | bug which causes the kernel panic might also be exploitable
             | by malicious code to do things like arbitrary kernel level
             | code execution. For example, if the problem is that the
             | kernel somehow allows the user to change a piece of memory
             | which the kernel interprets as a function pointer, then the
             | result of carelessly changing that piece of memory will
             | cause the kernel to jump into some part of memory that's
             | not valid code, causing a kernel panic; however, a very
             | clever attacker may pick a jump address which causes the
             | kernel to keep executing without crashing but doing
             | something which the developer of the kernel didn't intend.
             | Maybe the attacker can cause the kernel to jump to a
             | location in memory which the attacker has control over,
             | which would mean that the attacker can run arbitrary code
             | in kernel mode.
             | 
             | This stuff is all very complicated and very interesting, I
             | recommend reading up on it if it interests you.
             | 
             | And no, the kernel can't really check if it's being
             | manipulated. A checksum at startup wouldn't do it since
             | these sorts of exploits don't tend to involve changing the
             | kernel bytes on disk, but rather tricking the kernel into
             | doing something it's not supposed to. There are various
             | mechanisms to try to make bugs unexploitable (such as
             | address space layout randomisation), but fundamentally, you
             | can't perfectly protect against potential bugs.
        
               | swozey wrote:
               | Thanks! Yeah I really need to work on my low level
               | security knowledge this stuff is fascinating when it
               | isn't presented in the form of a crypto algorithim that
               | is heirogylphics to me.
        
             | PeterisP wrote:
             | The general idea is that an exploitable remote code
             | execution bug is some specific circumstances where the
             | processor starts to execute whatever is in some wrong
             | address which can be manipulated by an attacker.
             | 
             | If the bug is successfully exploited, the attacker arranges
             | so that everything is just so that device runs "as if
             | normal" but executes whatever code attacker decided to be
             | executed; but if the bug is triggered accidentally or
             | without a working exploit, then it attempts to execute
             | something random and _that_ results in a kernel panic.
             | 
             | So the way how "malware prevents a kernel panic" is that
             | it's a successful exploit if and only if it manages to
             | ensure that valid (but attacker-controlled) code runs and
             | actually works, and if it instead results in a kernel
             | panic, well, that's not a working malware, unless all the
             | attacker wanted was a denial of service exploit.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | RealityDevice running on xrOS.
        
         | bpye wrote:
         | I'm kind of impressed that a kernel panic doesn't just result
         | in a black screen and that passthrough still works.
        
           | teaearlgraycold wrote:
           | I'm not super informed here, but I believe the AR stuff,
           | including eye tracking, takes place on a coprocessor. The OS
           | on the M2 chip could die and you'd still have passthrough.
        
             | hparadiz wrote:
             | Valve Index is similiar. I've had my whole desktop freeze
             | but the spatial orientation is still drawing within the VR
             | as the headset is moving albiet in a frozen state.
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | The Valve Index does not do reprojection on the device.
               | It does not even do tracking on the device.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | It does it on the PC?
        
             | jsjohnst wrote:
             | Yep, R1 chip.
        
             | orangepanda wrote:
             | Sure it helps but does it _have_ to be on a separate chip?
             | In ye olden days when everything else had crashed and was
             | frozen, skype calls still kept working
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | Historically, it's generally been cheaper and easier to
               | have two chips than to persuade a consumer or server OS
               | to provide reliable time guarantees.
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | Hypervisors like that already exist and are needed by
               | cloud providers.
        
               | bpye wrote:
               | Well, even in that context you have AWS for example doing
               | control plane operations on a different SoC -
               | https://docs.aws.amazon.com/whitepapers/latest/security-
               | desi...
        
               | threeseed wrote:
               | I think it's more the fact that the M2 chip is used
               | across multiple product lines that don't need the unique
               | capabilities of the R1 chip.
        
       | ibero wrote:
       | The current theory in the community is that since visionOS is
       | based on iPadOS that it's more of a reference to a possible known
       | exploitation on iPad that requires similar attestation on
       | visionOS.
        
       | fouc wrote:
       | Imagine walking or driving when your AR gets hijacked, you could
       | be at risk of walking into traffic or crashing the vehicle.
        
         | GenerocUsername wrote:
         | If only there was a way to prevent this
        
           | randallsquared wrote:
           | Avoiding any walking or driving? Sure, I guess, but most
           | people can't stay at home forever any more than they could
           | avoid using a phone.
        
             | bpye wrote:
             | You can still walk or drive - just take the headset off to
             | do it...
        
               | pinkmuffinere wrote:
               | How are you supposed to know when the headset is going to
               | fail though??? I guess in some failure modes you might
               | anticipate it failing, but surely not all... (/s)
        
               | Detrytus wrote:
               | But walking with your headset on can be a part of the
               | value proposition, by adding some metadata to what you
               | see. Imagine being shown directions in an unfamiliar
               | place. Or seeing a distant bus and being told that this
               | is the bus you're trying to catch. Once the technology
               | becomes popular people will find a lot of reasons to walk
               | with their headsets on.
        
               | dimask wrote:
               | maybe with less intrusive and lighter optical AR glasses
               | that do not cover all your field of view, walking around
               | the city would be more possible. But expecting to go
               | around the streets or even drive with a huge AR headset
               | is unreasonable for our times.
        
         | ayhanfuat wrote:
         | Imagine not wearing a distracting device while you are in
         | traffic.
        
           | hparadiz wrote:
           | I could see a driving mode being useful since you could do
           | things with nothing but your eyes leaving your hands free.
        
             | Svennisen wrote:
             | Because you don't need your eyes when driving? The thought
             | of people driving around and multi tasking with their AR
             | goggles gives me the heebie-jeebies.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | As opposed to looking at a map?
               | 
               | It's always something with you folks.
        
             | kramerger wrote:
             | That should be illegal. It removes a huge part of your
             | field of vision.
        
             | wongarsu wrote:
             | We already have countless studies that talking on your
             | phone while driving is really bad for reaction times and
             | accident rates, even in hands-free setups. I can only
             | imagine who much worse these numbers will look if you add
             | distractions for your eyes to the mix.
        
           | nullindividual wrote:
           | Like this?
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TlkzcIel_pY
        
             | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
             | This person should lose their licence.
        
               | seagulls wrote:
               | That will definitely prevent them from driving.
        
               | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
               | In this case, I think the stupidity is also sufficient to
               | confiscate the vehicle in some jurisdictions.
        
       | bsimpson wrote:
       | I'm surprised they shipped with the product name
       | RealityDevice14,1.
        
         | quenix wrote:
         | The code name is always displayed in panic and crash logs. For
         | example, a kernel panic on my MacBook would display
         | MacBookAir10,1.
         | 
         | Or do you mean you find the code name itself funny?
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | (Jan 31) - before launch day.
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-04 23:01 UTC)