[HN Gopher] Cork is displacing plastics and creating a billion-d...
___________________________________________________________________
Cork is displacing plastics and creating a billion-dollar industry
Author : andrewl
Score : 51 points
Date : 2024-02-03 19:24 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
| andrewl wrote:
| Now cork is experiencing a revival as more industries look for
| sustainable alternatives to plastic and other materials derived
| from fossil fuels. ... The cork oak's thick bark adapted to
| defend the tree from fire, making it a powerful insulating
| material that's been used to shield fuel tanks on NASA spacecraft
| and electric car batteries. ... Several studies found that cork
| is carbon negative, meaning it can store more carbon than what is
| required to produce it.
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| Do Birkenstocks get credit for this? Cork makes such comfortable
| and durable shoes.
| _giorgio_ wrote:
| Smelly, horrible, oily. I look away each time I see someone
| wearing them.
| yulker wrote:
| Good, avert your eyes. We must only behold beautiful things.
| laeri wrote:
| The shoes are none of that. They are great :)
| WithinReason wrote:
| You mean carbon credits?
| ominous_prime wrote:
| Cork has always been used is lots of shoe footbeds, Birkenstock
| just makes it visible.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Does anyone else remember there being stories in past about
| increased cork production being unsustainable as in not enough
| availability and quality was getting lower? Or am I remembering
| wrong.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Cork can be grown and harvested sustainably, as long as there
| are enough trees (which live ~300 years) to meet demand (cork
| is bark harvested like shearing sheep).
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cork_(material)
| pstuart wrote:
| This is great and it would be nice to see it done sustainably
| (and hopefully supporting small businesses to do it).
|
| But there are risks: https://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/10.10
| 94/PDIS-03-16-0408-F...
|
| Another interesting option in this realm is mycelium, which
| could be better scaled on an industrial level.
| Terr_ wrote:
| > Another interesting option in this realm is mycelium,
| which could be better scaled on an industrial level.
|
| I, for one, welcome our industrial biological process
| overlords.
|
| Especially in the cases where it supplants the more
| traditional kind that often involves lots of animal
| cruelty. I have no intrinsic objection to eating steak from
| a disembodied vat-muscle.
| voakbasda wrote:
| When it comes to industrial processes, I have zero faith
| that a biological alternative will end up being better
| than synthetics, in the same way how certified organic
| products are still allowed to use "approved" chemicals,
| many of which are even more toxic or harmful than the
| conventional solutions they are meant to replace.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| There's not enough cork, nor will there ever be, to make a
| meaningful dent in total plastic consumption (in current
| terms).
|
| We produce 380M tons of plastic per year. IIUC, that's about
| the size of the entire lumber industry - of which cork is a
| very small insignificant percentage.
|
| Cork has a very small part of the planet where it grows well,
| and basically everything else valuable grows well there,
| too...
|
| The Nanocrystalline Cellulose market will be bigger than cork
| by 2030 probably - and even that is 25 years away from making
| a real dent in plastic consumption (aggressively).
| TotempaaltJ wrote:
| To be fair, we don't need it to overtake, or even come
| close to, the entire plastic industry. It'd already be nice
| if it, and other sustainable materials, could chip away at
| different uses of petroplastics.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| My point is that Cork is so laughably far away from
| making a meaningful dent.
|
| It's orders of magnitude away from even taking out 1%.
| lemmox wrote:
| Yes, I recall this as well. It didn't pass the smell test to me
| - probably wineries making up a reason to justify switching to
| screw caps.
| eikenberry wrote:
| Especially funny given that screw caps are inherently
| superior in every way except for hipster signalling.
| pyrale wrote:
| ...And for plastic caps ending up in the sea for a few
| centuries.
| gruez wrote:
| I don't know about you, but most (all?) of the screw caps
| I've seen are metal, not plastic.
| pyrale wrote:
| For alcohol, that's true, but most cheap wines use
| plastic caps around here.
| worik wrote:
| Here (New Zealand) all wine at all price points, have
| screw caps
| eikenberry wrote:
| I think the parent was commenting on how screw caps were
| better than the plastic "cork" style as well.
| loeg wrote:
| Screw caps are superior anyway. A better seal, easier to
| open, easier to reseal. It's good to see some reasonably good
| wines adopting screw tops in spite of tradition/inertia.
| yeeeloit wrote:
| They are not superior. Convenient in certain circumstances,
| perhaps.
|
| For example if one cannot be bothered to use, or does not
| have a corkscrew handy, a screw cap might be preferred for
| some.
|
| I know it is difficult for most Modern Americans to use a
| corkscrew. Even more difficult is being able to appreciate
| the complexities and effort that goes into making good,
| traditional wine. Best to do away with tradition for the
| sake of convenience.
| citizenkeen wrote:
| How are they inferior?
| loeg wrote:
| I have a corkscrew and am adept at using it. But I'd
| rather not! There is no benefit to cork.
| casualrandomcom wrote:
| I do totally remember.
|
| I remember the time when the press cried "there is no cork left
| on earth!!".
|
| I remember the time when cheap wine came with plastic corks.
|
| I remember the time when cheap wine had cork corks again.
| tomcam wrote:
| I don't drink alcohol but I could tell you about the
| devastation I felt when Mtn Dew went to high fructose corn
| syrup.
| tomcam wrote:
| Sure, downvote my pain, you monsters
| collegeburner wrote:
| very similar arc to "plastic bags are bad, save the trees!" ->
| "plastic is bad, paper is renewable!"
| neltnerb wrote:
| > very similar arc to "plastic bags are bad, save the trees!"
| -> "plastic is bad, paper is renewable!"
|
| Over four decades, environmentalists have simply won the
| discussion. 99% of paper products made in the US are made
| using farmed wood. Now paper is renewable enough that I don't
| worry about putting it in the trash (since I know we have an
| incinerator).
|
| Still uses petrochemicals for harvesting and processing,
| there's definitely a risk that certain kinds of tree farms
| are counterproductive. I don't think that's ever really
| broadly been the case though, it sounds like a whitepaper
| released by a thinktank funded by a plastic company to me.
| Those often get repackaged into low effort local news, it's
| not surprising that people get so confused.
| neltnerb wrote:
| I remember there being an issue where in some parts of the
| world the cork quality was not sufficient for wine bottles so
| screw caps had become more popular. Probably for the best,
| screw caps really seem better for everyone.
| _giorgio_ wrote:
| https://archive.is/C5nPn
| neonate wrote:
| http://web.archive.org/web/20240203182221/https://www.washin...
| Nifty3929 wrote:
| There are always niche alternatives to anything, here and there.
| But unless we're talking about a new technology or some other
| fundamental change in circumstances, they are alternatives rather
| than the primary choice for a reason.
|
| Cork has a little overlap with a few plastic use-cases, but only
| slightly. It requires far more effort to produce than a plastic
| equivalent, and is simply not suited to most use cases.
|
| I do look forward to some cork alternatives to plastic where it
| makes sense. But I hardly expect it to make any meaningful
| difference to overall plastic use.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| If you start outlawing plastics due to their harm, the
| alternative becomes the primary choice. I don't think we need
| to argue plastic incurred harm, it should be obvious.
| morpheos137 wrote:
| If the harm of outlawing a useful product exceeds the harm
| done by that product then even greater harm is done through
| the prohibition.
|
| Plastics are ESSENTIAL for everything from medical devices,
| electrical insulation, to pipes. There are simply no
| alternatives. We are not going to replace PE or PVC jacketing
| for wires with cork.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| And yet, the EPA is working towards restricting the use of
| or potentially outlawing vinyl chloride, a key ingredient
| in PVC. Nothing is impossible, and essential might be
| relative, depending on use case.
|
| Of course, cork isn't the solution to _all_ plastic use
| cases, just a potential replacement in some use cases. Like
| phasing out combustion vehicles, you have to signal that
| you're forcing the sunset of the material so alternatives
| are identified and supply chains can reconfigure
| accordingly.
|
| https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2023/12/
| 1...
| morpheos137 wrote:
| IF the EPA bans vinyl chloride all that means is instead
| of manufacturing PVC pellets in the USA we will import
| them from some place else. The EPA banning the use of PVC
| is about as realistic as banning the use of cardboard or
| paper. It is bewildering to me how many people think you
| can just ban an essential material and magically come up
| with an equivalent substitute. That is not how the real
| world works.
|
| In the case of asbestos the harm was much greater and the
| substitutes much better and more readily available and
| the use range of the original material was much narrower.
|
| The blind, ignorant hate for "plastics" online just goes
| to show how people can be led to believe anything.
|
| For example polyethylene, used in milk jugs and water
| pipes is absolutely harmless. You could swallow a fist
| full of PE pellets per day and they would simply pass
| right through you unchanged. This is a scientific fact.
| If a PE container can hold concentrated sulfuric acid
| your stomach is going to do nothing to it. Yet for some
| reason drinking out of a plastic milk jug is bad because
| some random person online said so.
| rrr_oh_man wrote:
| > We are not going to replace PE or PVC jacketing for wires
| with cork.
|
| What about hemp?
| morpheos137 wrote:
| What about it? It is disconcerting how so many people on
| HN don't understand basic economics. If we want to
| replace "plastics" for some reason then we need to come
| up with a superior alternative not an inferior one. Since
| you raised the question, what about hemp makes it a
| realistic solution to insulating wire? Can it be
| thermoplastically extruded? Is it really so hard to see
| how growing hemp plants, harvesting the fiber, weaving
| the fiber into braided insulation, that is more porous
| and susceptible to compromise by moisture than any
| plastic is an inferior solution?
|
| It is really bizarre to me how people online have jumped
| in the plastic hate bandwagon with zero understanding of
| how industrial processes that make the modern world
| possible actually work.
|
| Why not replace the dirty rubber in tires with wooden
| wheels?
| casualrandomcom wrote:
| "I don't think we need to argue plastic incurred harm, it
| should be obvious."
|
| ? I'd like a clear and obvious reference.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://hn.algolia.com/?q=plastics
|
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&q
| u...
| casualrandomcom wrote:
| Don't you see that 90% of these is just
|
| "There is plastic in the environment"
|
| It does not say "plastic harms this or that".
|
| The equality "plastic presence"=="plastic harm" is not
| obvious to me
|
| To me it is just like "man-made electromagnetic waves are
| everywhere, they are not natural, _ergo_ this harms the
| environment "
| TotempaaltJ wrote:
| I googled "plastic harm", immediately hit this Wikipedia
| page (linked to relevant section):
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_pollution#Effects
|
| It's fairly well sourced. Some examples of harm from
| plastics, mostly on the environment:
|
| > Degradation (changes in the ecosystem state) and
| modifications of marine systems are associated with loss
| of ecosystem services and values.
|
| > in 2019, production and incineration of plastic will
| contribute greenhouse gases in the equivalent of 850
| million tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2) to the atmosphere
|
| > For example, in Bangkok flood risk increases
| substantially because of plastic waste clogging the
| already overburdened sewer system.
|
| > Marine wildlife such as seabirds, whales, fish and
| turtles mistake plastic waste for prey; most then die of
| starvation as their stomachs become filled with plastic.
| They also suffer from lacerations, infections, reduced
| ability to swim, and internal injuries.
|
| > When analyzing the effect of polyethylene microbeads
| (origin: cosmetic exfoliants) on the aquatic macrophyte
| L. minor, no effect on photosynthetic pigments &
| productivity was found, but root growth and root cell
| viability decreased.
|
| But this one's about humans:
|
| > By affecting the thyroid hormone axis, BPA exposure can
| lead to hypothyroidism.
| tremon wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch?u
| s...
| trothamel wrote:
| For perspective on the numbers in that map, the first
| meter of each of those square kilometers of water weighs
| 1,024,000,000 kg. (At least, using the first number for
| sea water density I could find.)
| scythe wrote:
| The article is heavy on cork production, light on use cases.
|
| >"Compared with materials like polyurethane foam [used for
| thermal insulation], products made with cork require less energy
| and produce less CO2 emissions."
|
| Polyurethane foam is used for thermal insulation in a few places.
| But fiberglass is still the champion of that sector, and it's
| older than plastic and more durable and abundant than cork. More
| often, polyurethane is used for couch cushions, cheap mattresses,
| and shoes, which are difficult use-cases for cork -- Birkenstocks
| have a cult following but poor water resistance.
|
| >used to shield fuel tanks on NASA spacecraft and electric car
| batteries.
|
| And this about wraps it up.
|
| There are probably some good use cases for cork, but the major
| advantage of plastic is the ability to do so much with so little.
| An LDPE bag of the sort now banned in California weighs about six
| grams. I can't think of many things you could do with six grams
| of cork that don't involve grapes.
| Log_out_ wrote:
| Stupid question : trees are effectively corals, pumping sugar
| from air with light and getting water + trace minerals from the
| ground. Wood/cork is basically the dead mmtisdue extruded by the
| living outer layer.
|
| What would it take to "unfold" something like a tree into a
| continously harvest able square with leaves and hydroponic roots
| still attached?
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2024-02-03 23:02 UTC)