[HN Gopher] My husband went through the Amazon Pivot process. It...
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       My husband went through the Amazon Pivot process. It was crushing
        
       Author : intunderflow
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2024-02-03 18:18 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.businessinsider.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.businessinsider.com)
        
       | miles wrote:
       | Three other recent stories from BI on Amazon Pivot:
       | 
       |  _I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing
       | with PIP plans_ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38471744
       | 
       |  _A Former Amazon Worker Was Put a Performance Plan; Lost a
       | Deposit on a House_ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37817021
       | 
       |  _Amazon shut down a Slack channel where 2k employees talked
       | about PIPs_ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37960846
        
         | rayiner wrote:
         | Yikes at that guy losing a $110k deposit on a house after he
         | got fired from Amazon. Major metro housing prices are a boot on
         | your neck. When my wife and I bought our house in 2016 it was
         | more than an hour commute each way, but it cost less than our
         | annual income. Next door was an abandoned house with raccoons
         | and a fox living in it. But the other day I was at the local
         | university and saw a basement 1BR apartment (in DC) being
         | advertised for the same as my mortgage on a 3BR house.
        
       | digitallis42 wrote:
       | Most PIPs are designed to provide a documented reason for letting
       | someone go that can be used to contest any possible lawsuits.
       | They are not necessarily designed to help people. Some are, and
       | some managers believe in them.
        
         | PerilousD wrote:
         | Unless you are in an "at will" employment state or otherwise
         | fall under those rules, then the company trots out "at will"
         | (which you signed an agreement to) then the HR DRONES will
         | state "You have no grounds to sue."
        
           | bitzun wrote:
           | In e.g. Texas if they fire you without properly documenting a
           | flimsy non-protected-class-infringing cause, you may be able
           | to draw unemployment. I don't know what the success rate is
           | like for IT workers.
        
       | silexia wrote:
       | I am the founder and owner of a business with 270+ employees. I
       | regularly give employees final warnings. The warning always is
       | because of issues directly related to their job (not working
       | their shift, failing at their regular duties somehow), not asking
       | them to do more tasks beyond their job.
       | 
       | If this description of Amazon's pivot process is accurate, then
       | there is something very shady going on there. Probably just the
       | bureaucracy terminating people who disagree with them and making
       | sure they have legal cover for it. Lots of DEI programs pushed by
       | Fortune 500 CEOs require doubling minority employee populations
       | and also unless the company is doubling in size, require the
       | termination of white people. They can't legally say that, so they
       | make up weird programs like this to get to that DEI goal.
        
         | Koala_ice wrote:
         | Your commentary about DEI is pure racist dog-whistling. Go back
         | to Facebook with that business.
        
       | hasty_pudding wrote:
       | People with families should probably not work at a FAANG.
       | 
       | They have borderline inhuman performance requirements and the
       | politics are absurd.
       | 
       | Even top-notch Engineers can get caught up into some political
       | BS.
       | 
       | While the money is good it's a very unstable place. So with the
       | increased reward comes increased risk.
       | 
       | you would think smart people would create pleasant workplaces for
       | themselves.
        
         | edmundsauto wrote:
         | I currently and have worked at big tech that is an amazing
         | place to work. The performance bar is correspondingly high
         | compared to comp, but leadership is not toxic like at Amazon.
         | 
         | YMMV depending on team, but that applies everywhere. Your
         | manager will almost always determine your experience.
         | 
         | It's the equivalent of being a professional athlete. The
         | expectations are insanely high but that doesn't mean it has to
         | be inhuman.
        
       | snapetom wrote:
       | > In my opinion, this process is not designed to improve the
       | employee.
       | 
       | Sorry, but no shit. The boss wanted her husband gone. Period,
       | full stop.
       | 
       | Look, no matter how charismatic/great/competent you are, there's
       | always going to be someone that doesn't like you. The article
       | gives no history or indication about how long her husband had
       | worked for his boss or their relationship prior. Maybe the boss
       | is a psychopath, just came in and decided he didn't like the
       | husband and wanted him out. Maybe it's a genuine personality
       | conflict. Being put on a PIP is the way to do that.
       | 
       | Is it fair? Is it good for the company? Of course not, but this
       | is Amazon we're talking about. There are plenty of people lined
       | up as replacements.
       | 
       | Soft skills matter. If you can't please you're boss, if you're
       | not aligned, you need to sense that and start looking for other
       | options. Sometimes, though you'll still get blindsided.
        
         | _heimdall wrote:
         | Its not always about whether your direct boss wants you gone.
         | I've seen the decision made from higher up in the org and/or HR
         | based primarily (if not entirely) on compensation. The company
         | needs you gone either because they want to backfill with a
         | lower salaried hire, or you are in line for a large stock
         | vestment.
        
       | PerilousD wrote:
       | Companies started this crap just after 9/11. I guess I was a
       | boomer IT guy and never saw the point of unions HOWEVER very
       | early in my career I saw that the "company loyalty" mindset ONLY
       | benefitted the company. This was BEFORE the pension reforms and
       | when the company I worked for in NY decided to leave for Chicago
       | they offered me (IT admin) all kinds of benefits to move and
       | folks that had literally MONTHS left to meet their 10year pension
       | were almost to a woman told "goodbye" too bad so sad, no pension
       | for you. 10 years later with the PIVOT crap starting and folks I
       | knew particularly, those at 40 or older getting the shaft I was
       | no longer so anti-union. Im retired now but, there is strength in
       | numbers OR sue them. I sued about 15 years ago. Ended up with TEN
       | times the severance I was offered even after paying the attorney
       | retainer fee (not cheap) but her communications started DIRECTLY
       | with the firm's C-Suite Managing Director Lawyer and NOT the HR
       | drones. The head corporate lawyer was quick to make the pending
       | suit "go away" since they knew they were in the wrong "at will
       | employment" be damned. Join a union if possible and don't take
       | "at will" as anything get a lawyer and follow through with a suit
       | if you have to.
        
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