[HN Gopher] Apple Vision Pro and ADHD
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple Vision Pro and ADHD
        
       Author : dansalvato
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2024-02-03 17:36 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dansalva.to)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dansalva.to)
        
       | aredox wrote:
       | Interesting observations. Like drugs, different technologies may
       | trigger different excessive neurological reactions. It would be
       | interesting to map that space.
       | 
       | Will the Vision Pro trigger derealisation in schizoid/borderline
       | people?
        
       | cheschire wrote:
       | 14 days seems like a ridiculously short trial period for a first
       | generation device if Apple were really serious about this
       | platform
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | Apple's return policy is 14 days for all their products and is
         | industry standard.
         | 
         | Also I am not sure what the problem is that is unique to those
         | with ADHD. The issues raised are the same for everyone.
        
           | cbsmith wrote:
           | > Also I am not sure what the problem is that is unique to
           | those with ADHD. The issues raised are the same for everyone.
           | 
           | The joy of ADHD is that issues that seem the same as everyone
           | else's are often far more difficult/easy to manage.
        
           | chipweinberger wrote:
           | > industry standard
           | 
           | Amazon is 30 days, and it has made 14 days look stingy this
           | day in age.
        
           | hnlmorg wrote:
           | > Apple's return policy is 14 days for all their products and
           | is industry standard
           | 
           | A _de facto_ standard in the US.
           | 
           | Some other countries have stronger consumer laws in place
           | that define statuary return policies.
        
         | Kluggy wrote:
         | I think it's a pretty polarizing experience. Either you fall in
         | love with it and go all in, or you don't and it's just not
         | worth the squeeze. 14 days seems plenty of time.
        
         | penjelly wrote:
         | just short enough that the VR/AR novelty hasnt worn off until
         | its over
        
           | zmmmmm wrote:
           | that's the real problem with these devices ... it has to
           | actually get boring before you can tell if it's got real
           | value or not. And that takes a long time precisely _because_
           | the novelty is _so_ high and _so_ interesting. But it will
           | happen and if you don 't have a use for the device after that
           | you have blown a lot of money.
        
         | barkingcat wrote:
         | If you need more than 14 days, it seems a purchase upfront
         | isn't the best idea to begin with. What would be better is to
         | either borrow or rent it from someone/some place that already
         | has one.
         | 
         | Making a purchase is very different from getting one to try.
         | Beyond a 14 days return policy, you start getting abuse from
         | people trying to exploit the exchange policy.
         | 
         | As many people say, 14 days is kind of a standard. Many
         | companies have even fewer days so read the fine print before
         | you buy. If you don't like the return policy, don't buy it.
         | 
         | If you absolutely have to have one on Day 1 but don't feel 14
         | days is sufficient, maybe evaluate why you need it on Day 1?
         | Wait for some other people to have it in their hands, and the
         | rentals/loans usually start a few weeks after launch.
        
         | doytch wrote:
         | I still find it quite odd that the west (or at least the US)
         | has decided that we're entitled to a trial period with things
         | we purchase. It's an incredibly wasteful practice and one that
         | isn't at all common in a lot of other places on the planet. I
         | know people who've moved to Europe who were in for a rude
         | awakening when they tried returning things to the local shop
         | just 'cause.
        
           | wtetzner wrote:
           | > It's an incredibly wasteful practice
           | 
           | How is it more wasteful than keeping something you're not
           | going to use?
        
             | ahar083 wrote:
             | A lot of lower end items are sent to the trash when
             | returned. (Not items like an iPhone, which would be sold as
             | referb models).
             | 
             | The wastefulness comes from the fact that the barrier to
             | purchase is pretty low, given the ease of return, so one is
             | more likely to buy an item which may end up in the trash in
             | 14 days (30 for Amazon).
             | 
             | If I absolutely couldn't return a product (aside from
             | defects), I'd not buy a lot of items in the first place.
             | 
             | (I say this as someone who is guilty of plenty of
             | "trials").
             | 
             | I'm actually travelling through Japan right now, where one
             | can visit a Yobadashi or Bic Camera, these stores are
             | great, because all their tech is out and able to be played
             | with, without explicitly getting assistance from a staff
             | member. It's obviously not the same as bringing a camera
             | etc into the field to test, but it goes a long way in
             | deciding if something works from an ergonomic perspective,
             | before purchasing it.
        
           | kranke155 wrote:
           | Huh? There are laws about being able to return items in the
           | EU as well.
        
           | iwontberude wrote:
           | What you're saying doesn't make sense. Returns are common
           | around the world. Source:
           | https://www.statista.com/chart/27584/how-common-are-
           | online-r...
        
       | guptaneil wrote:
       | This is something I am very curious about too. I'm kind of
       | hopeful the fatigue and limitations imposed by Vision Pro will
       | make my overall computer usage more intentional, similar to how
       | wearing an Apple Watch and tossing my phone in my backpack made
       | my overall phone usage when I'm outside more intentional. The
       | Apple Watch is a pain to use for anything productive, and I
       | appreciate that.
       | 
       | The biggest question will be if it's _too_ much of a pain that I
       | don't want to use it at all.
        
         | spondylosaurus wrote:
         | Do you think the "benefits" (strange to say, but I totally get
         | it) of fatigue and limitations will diminish over time as you
         | get used to the new hardware? Or if the hardware/software
         | itself gets better?
         | 
         | I just wonder if the friction imposed by a new tool--which, in
         | this case, is a net positive--will become less noticeable and
         | therefore less of a benefit. Compared to something like a
         | smartwatch, which has impassable constraints no matter how much
         | you get used to it, or even an e-ink screen.
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | Won't it rather have the same effect a slow phone or laptop has,
       | like driving you really mad at times? I think I might have that
       | issue if everything is laggy, unless I'd like to sugarcoat a very
       | expensive purchase of an otherwise "cool" device.
        
         | Kluggy wrote:
         | It doesn't come across as laggy, but... smeary? if I move my
         | head to the side, everything smears for a little bit before it
         | snaps back into focus. It's a bit rough for me to move around
         | in, but I'm pretty sensitive to motion.
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | Smeary is the perfect word to describe it. Whereas I would've
           | described my Meta quest 2 as laggy.
        
           | zanecodes wrote:
           | That sounds like the phenomenon known as display persistence:
           | https://developers.google.com/vr/discover/fundamentals#displ.
           | .. It's typically avoided by displaying images for a very
           | short period, blanking them between frames and letting the
           | eye and brain fill in the intervening time.
        
         | dansalvato wrote:
         | Things aren't "slow" in the sense that they're unresponsive.
         | The UI actually feels great to use--it's a lot of fun, it's
         | fluid, and it responds very well to my actions. It's just that
         | I'm not as fast navigating apps on the Apple Vision Pro
         | compared to using a mouse or a touchscreen. Frustration only
         | occurs when trying to perform a certain action and getting a
         | different result, which doesn't happen much for me (except in
         | iPad apps with poor compatibility).
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | I completely agree on the extra overhead for opening new windows,
       | and this authors thoughts on the pass-through quality. For myself
       | I don't think I realized how much I just look around while I'm
       | thinking or working on some thing else but the Apple Vision Pro
       | makes that very obvious as things light up, expand, etc.
       | 
       | I never used the iPad is anything more than a consumption device
       | and as things stand right now I'm not sure if the apple Vision
       | Pro is going to be more than that for me either. I wrote about
       | this in my first impressions blog post [0], but what I really
       | wanted was to use the Apple Vision Pro as a replacement for my
       | computer monitors, it's just not there yet. I look forward to
       | future revisions and I'm also on a 13 day countdown to decide if
       | I want to keep this or not.
       | 
       | [0] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/03/apple-vision-pro-first-
       | im...
        
         | Swizec wrote:
         | > I never used the iPad is anything more than a consumption
         | device
         | 
         | Same until I got the keyboard. Most of my iPads collected dust
         | in a corner because I don't really do that much consumption.
         | 
         | Then I got the Magic Keyboard and my iPad basically replaced my
         | laptop. I use it for almost all my non-coding work. Even to
         | give talks and workshops at conferences. The battery life is
         | amazing, the form factor super convenient, and it fits on
         | airplanes or in your lap perfectly.
         | 
         | Nowadays my laptop mostly works as a desktop computer sitting
         | in its dock hooked into a keyboard, monitor, and mouse. Useful
         | only for very serious work.
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | That's something I still need to test in the Apple Vision
           | Pro, connecting a keyboard to it. I used it with my laptop,
           | which lets you use your keyboard with other Apple Vision Pro
           | apps while it's connected, which was very nice, and I also
           | broke out the magic trackpad to use with the Apple Vision Pro
           | because scrolling got annoying after a while. The problem is
           | what I want to do is write code and I want to do it using my
           | IDE so doing that inside of the Apple Vision Pro isn't really
           | possible unless I'm connected to my MacBook Pro
        
           | jhrmnn wrote:
           | Interesting, exactly the same experience here. I'm now
           | contemplating getting a desktop computer again once my laptop
           | dies.
        
           | somewhereoutth wrote:
           | But would it be fair to say that with the Magic Keyboard,
           | your iPad has in fact _become_ a laptop?
        
             | Swizec wrote:
             | It's certainly almost as heavy.
             | 
             | Unfortunately iOS is very nerfed compared to MacOS even
             | though my M2 iPad probably hs more compute than my i9
             | laptop.
        
         | kfichter wrote:
         | I also pulled the trigger here hoping to be able to replace my
         | desktop setup. What were the key issues you were having that
         | made you feel like it's just not there yet for that use case?
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | I cover some of this in my blog post, but mostly it came down
           | to the text I was looking at would be sharp and easy to read,
           | but anything in my peripheral vision would look a little bit
           | blurry. I only gave it a quick test and today I'm planning on
           | trying to write a new feature all in the Vision Pro to see
           | how that goes.
        
             | joshstrange wrote:
             | After writing this I went to write a tiny new feature for
             | my side project on the AVP. At first I couldn't get my AVP
             | to connect to my MBP and I thought it might be because it
             | was in clamshell mode. I opened up setting and clicked
             | around a bit then it showed up on my AVP to connect to (I
             | went to Control Center and clicked the button to connect to
             | a MBP, it didn't prompt me. It did prompt me the other day
             | when I had the laptop open).
             | 
             | I started to write the feature but could feel the added
             | friction and slowness. There was a little bit of input lag
             | (moving mouse and feel like it wasn't moving as quick on
             | the AVP), then I started getting an error from my backend
             | in a place I hadn't touched anything. I very quickly took
             | off the AVP to investigate with the "full power" of my MBP
             | and external monitors.
             | 
             | The text in the AVP is clear when you are looking at your
             | code but moving your head "smears" the picture a bit and
             | anything you aren't focusing on isn't clear. It would be
             | workable and maybe I'd use it on a plane but never if I
             | have my monitors available to me. I want to try again in
             | the next few days but it's a decent way off from replacing
             | my monitors.
        
         | somewhereoutth wrote:
         | I don't really get the computer monitor replacement argument -
         | if you are _creating_ as opposed to consuming content (i.e.
         | coding /designing/authoring), then you are going to need a
         | rather better input medium than what a virtual keyboard/mouse
         | will provide. And this better medium, whether keyboard,
         | trackpad, mouse or something else, will be sitting on a desk -
         | with your monitors! If you want more/bigger monitors, then go
         | buy some with the $3499.
        
           | grecy wrote:
           | You can use any physical mouse/keyboard as input for the
           | Vision Pro, including the ones built into your laptop.
        
             | somewhereoutth wrote:
             | I can see how 'authoring from your lap' with a laptop
             | actually on your lap (while on the sofa - like I am doing
             | right now) might benefit from bigger/multi screens instead
             | of the tiny portal the laptop gives you, but as soon as you
             | want to do something more complex probably you'll reach for
             | your mouse, and perhaps a paper and pen/pencil (if you
             | think with your hands). Thus to the desk you go, where all
             | your monitors are anyway.
        
               | grecy wrote:
               | > _To sell the public that he achieved the dream of
               | giving Ethiopia "access to sea"(which they already have
               | access to)_
               | 
               | Sure, but the vision pro offers "bigger" monitors that
               | can fill your vision (if you want)
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | I can't speak for anybody else, but for me, I am happy to use
           | a mouse, keyboard, and even my MacBook Pro. I just want the
           | Apple Vision Pro to replace my monitors.
        
       | zmmmmm wrote:
       | I routinely use Quest 3 with Immersed to do "focused" work by
       | switching to specific environments that I associate with that. I
       | can also co-work in a room of 5 - 10 other people who are also
       | doing that which generates a little bit of impetus to focus as
       | well.
       | 
       | I think if this becomes the only reason to keep the device, for
       | sure explore some other options like Quest 3 and see if it's
       | sufficient. It does a lot more things than a Vision Pro and costs
       | so much less. It's pretty personal whether the resolution cuts it
       | or you really need the quality of the Vision Pro or not, but it
       | works for me.
        
         | KronisLV wrote:
         | I got a Quest 2 mostly for entertainment, but using it for
         | productivity reasons is basically a no go for me, due to the
         | lenses (blurry near the edges and some light streaks for any
         | off-center text, not sure what the correct name for that is)
         | and overall resolution (can't even have my actual 4 monitors
         | present without having to make them so big that each takes up
         | like 90 degrees of my field of vision).
         | 
         | I feel like I really should have waited for Quest 3, not have
         | gotten a Quest 2 because it was cheaper. Then again, I quite
         | like the concept of VR and if some of the software wasn't so
         | buggy (currently I need to run GPU drivers from 2020 for my RX
         | 580, since the newer ones cause driver crashes), I can
         | definitely imagine myself spending more time in VR! Except for
         | eye strain and basically staring into super bright screens
         | close to my face.
         | 
         | Once I eventually get there, just chilling in space, with a few
         | floating windows and getting some work done will be a pretty
         | zen experience. Just have to wait a while until the hardware
         | becomes more affordable.
        
           | zmmmmm wrote:
           | Yes Quest 3 is a completely different ball game to Quest 2 as
           | far as this goes. Quest 2 resolution and lenses were
           | completely unusable for me and Quest 3 is usable. But there
           | are people that will say Quest 3 is unusable so you have to
           | really try it.
           | 
           | One thing it convinces me is that the resolution in Vision
           | Pro is completely unnecessary for me. I need about 20% more
           | resolution and I am done, after that other things are more
           | important.
        
       | ionwake wrote:
       | Im sitting in England unable to test this.
       | 
       | But I swear Im getting the vibe from preview videos that hand
       | interactions with windows etc have what looks like a 100ms lag on
       | them.
       | 
       | Can anyone confirm if there is lag when moving objects around in
       | this thing?
       | 
       | Cos that would wear on any user fast.
       | 
       | ( I hope it doesn't I'm really looking forward to this, Im just
       | wondering if its as perfect interactionwise as iphones are )
        
         | ianbutler wrote:
         | Not in my experience, it's super smooth. There is clunkyness
         | with actually selecting a screen when multiple things are
         | layered however.
        
       | crtified wrote:
       | This is partly reminiscent of the oft-discussed broader lament
       | (or advantage, if you prefer!) of the current state of the VR
       | interface - the physical overheads, or baseload.
       | 
       | Coming to terms with, not just the new advantages brought by VR,
       | but also the new _constraints_ , the new annoyances and
       | workarounds - especially prevalent at the cutting edge of tech,
       | as we all know.
        
       | dataangel wrote:
       | Why every time a new technology comes out with crappy obvious
       | limitations does somebody feel compelled to write a blog post
       | trying to justify it as actually good? This is just somebody
       | trying to talk themselves into keeping their $3,500 toy
        
         | iwontberude wrote:
         | Funny because I was saying "Yes! Yes! Yes!" to myself as I was
         | reading. This author totally gets me and what I want out of AVP
         | and it's the first time I am even seeing it written somewhere.
        
         | hnthrowaway0328 wrote:
         | Probably because we all want toys but need justifications so
         | that wives don't get angry.
        
           | saintlunaire wrote:
           | Wives read HN and enjoy new technologies too, FYI.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | The attention economy means that every time there's an
         | opportunity, plenty of people will create attention grabbing
         | responses with the common set of hot takes.
         | 
         | Same goes for comment sections and any time people get the
         | opportunity to do anything with a possible attention reward.
         | I've taken to being conscious of the kinds of
         | obnoxious/unhelpful/nitpicking responses when commenting in
         | threads to try to discourage low quality responses.
        
         | dansalvato wrote:
         | Author here--you're not wrong, I've been a gadget enthusiast my
         | whole life, and I deliberately left in the tone that I'm trying
         | to justify owning an Apple Vision Pro, despite its flaws.
         | 
         | I was also serious that the flaws are part of the charm for me,
         | because it really does harken back to the "gadget age" of the
         | 2000s. It takes me back to being 15 years old, wearing a Fossil
         | Wrist PDA, trying to be productive with Palm OS using a
         | fingernail-sized stylus. I really loved that sort of thing, and
         | it's been really hard for me to recapture that feeling this
         | past decade.
         | 
         | AVP is a device that, so far, has brought me joy and makes me
         | think about my relationship with technology. If not for the
         | price tag, it would be a no-brainer for me to keep. But as I
         | continue to mess around with the device, the price is
         | constantly ringing in the back of my mind, making me want to
         | justify it, even though I may not be able to in the end.
        
         | jazzyjackson wrote:
         | because the asymmetry of people who are curious and people who
         | buy the new technology creates a demand for first impressions
         | and think pieces
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | I don't even get why people spend money on this stuff. You're
         | just paying an idiot tax because you're a sucker for marketing.
         | Someone who waits, say, 5 years before getting something like
         | this will get more enjoyment out of it at a fraction of the
         | price. Or it will just turn out to be a silly gimmick and
         | they'll save the time and money entirely. Stuff like 3D TVs
         | come to mind. The "patient gamers" subreddit seems to agree
         | with this thinking. You basically just delay your game of
         | choice by a few years. Makes absolutely no difference to you
         | except you save money and perhaps skip some disappointing
         | titles.
        
           | megablast wrote:
           | Yes. It's crazy people Just don't wait 5 years.
           | 
           | I assume You are being deliberately ridiculous?
        
         | l33tman wrote:
         | I find at least a little bit funny that it seems that
         | completely new people now "discover" what you can do with VR,
         | as if this hasn't been a thing for almost 10 years and
         | certainly for the last 5 years (although with slightly lower
         | resolution than with the AVP).
         | 
         | But then again, it helps the entire industry that it apparently
         | has reached a different audience this time who gets hyped
         | again.
         | 
         | I just wish there could be new use-cases than just the same old
         | recycled use-cases like virtual monitors, watching movies,
         | looking at how it is to stand on the moon, or virtual
         | conferencing. Maybe there really are no killer VR apps, except
         | beat saber :/
         | 
         | Wasn't AVP supposed to be an AR headset? Or they just haven't
         | really figured out what to do there? Now it's just a VR headset
         | with passthrough, it isn't really "using" the external world.
        
       | hnthrowaway0328 wrote:
       | About the ADHD part: I don't know whether I have ADHD but I do
       | lose focus quickly once I figure out how to solve a problem,
       | before doing any implementation -- after all the implementation,
       | however long it could take, is boring and uninteresting comparing
       | to figuring out how to implement.
       | 
       | So what if I get myself a Raspberry Pi 8GB and jumps into VSCode
       | and VSCode only? Is it possible to make a VSCode "terminal" that
       | only shows VSCode? OK let's make it more interesting: it also has
       | network connection and the ChatGPT plugin for VSCode installed,
       | so that I don't have to leave for another desktop to "find"
       | something.
       | 
       | What do you think?
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | On any Linux system you can have no window manager (or an
         | extremely minimal one) and just start a single application on
         | login. It's been a while since I've done that and most stuff
         | has moved away from X11 now, but yes exactly what you want is
         | possible. To log in and have nothing but a single application,
         | no menus, no desktop, etc.
        
         | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
         | I have the same problem, and sometimes I'll code with an ageing
         | Thinkpad(just 8 gigs of ram on it and an i5 with pretty bad
         | singe-core perf) on my couch, ssh into my desktop and run
         | Emacs/vim that way. I still have a full environment on my
         | Thinkpad, but the 13" screen means I don't always have my
         | browser open(usually just the one terminal), and if I follow my
         | impulse to open a hundred tabs of docs in a local browser, my
         | system will slow down too much. Forces me to keep a clutter
         | free setup to even get anything done!
         | 
         | Definitely think your idea is worth trying for yourself.
        
           | nickjj wrote:
           | I think there is something about optimizing for comfort.
           | 
           | I've had a standing desk for 8 or 9 years now and I stand
           | probably 75% of the time. When I sit, my chair is not very
           | comfortable but also standing isn't always ideal either. This
           | is while also mixing in 2-3 walks or jogs through out the
           | day.
           | 
           | After working for ~8-9 hours in that environment and being up
           | for 14-15 hours, sometimes when I'm in a vegetable state
           | where I'm laying in bed watching a movie I feel highly
           | motivated to work on something but I don't have a laptop and
           | the thought of getting back up rarely wins.
           | 
           | With that said, I'd say my most productive "programming
           | thoughts" happen right as I wake up and am laying in bed. I
           | often spend 15-20 minutes thinking about exactly how I'll
           | solve something and then get to that during the day. This is
           | for both work and personal projects.
        
         | dansalvato wrote:
         | It's well known that habits and mode of thinking change with
         | environmental cues, and I find that extends to a digital
         | environment as well. If you have a device that's distinctly a
         | "work" device and you've only ever used it for focused work,
         | then your brain will hopefully catch on and keep you within
         | that mode of thinking a little bit more effectively.
         | 
         | However, I find that with ADHD, a good "system" doesn't solve
         | all my problems. There is then the fundamental problem of
         | regularly using that system, which it turns out ADHD also makes
         | a serious challenge. So, yes, good systems have tremendous
         | value, but just prepare for the undertaking of staying
         | committed to the system you've set up for yourself.
        
         | pastorhudson wrote:
         | I think it will be a lot of fun to build it and then because
         | you built it you will be highly motivated to use it for a
         | season. Maybe a few weeks. Maybe 6 months, but eventually it
         | will will be boring too.
         | 
         | I find pomodo style gorilla warfare works best for me. I tell
         | myself I will work on the implementation for 15 minutes. If
         | after 15 minutes I am still repelled by this task to the point
         | I am unproductive, then I accept that, make necessary notes and
         | do something else.
         | 
         | I will try again tomorrow. Eventually I hit a point where I
         | have done enough that I am motivated to continue to see it
         | completed.
         | 
         | I will do gorilla attacks on cleaning my office, writing
         | marketing email, inbox zero, implementing some new feature. It
         | works for me for a lot of things.
         | 
         | When I am just unable to do what I'm "supposed" to do then I
         | give myself grace and go do the thing that is consuming my
         | attention at the moment.
         | 
         | This "unproductive" stuff often becomes new ideas, new
         | features, new friends, and brings meaning to my life.
        
         | edyc5 wrote:
         | As a fellow-sufferer of attention deficit, I am the same way.
         | Once I've mapped out a solution, I mentally checkout and
         | procrastinate on doing the actual implementation. One thing
         | that's helped me is by practicing "Deep Work" by absolutely
         | resisting any urge to check my phone during that 45 minute
         | focus time (like pomodoro technique).
         | 
         | Last month, I prototyped a desktop app of a blinking border to
         | assist with getting into a "flow state", which has been pretty
         | effective in keeping me focused for set durations for the past
         | few weeks. Shared with a few friends who have also said it's
         | helped them be more productive so happy to share these tools
         | with fellow HN'ers.
         | 
         | Email in my bio if you wanna give it a try before I launch it
         | on App Store in the coming weeks.
        
         | theGnuMe wrote:
         | Yeah that would work, minimalism and artificial constraints are
         | ways to help manage ADHD. The other thing to think about it is
         | that your mental solution is probably wrong and won't survive
         | implementation. Consider that a challenge to focus on.
        
       | austin-cheney wrote:
       | I am not convinced. First let's be clear that there is minor ADHD
       | which is a world of focus issues and minor distractions, and then
       | there is catastrophic ADHD which is like living through the movie
       | Momento in a world where memories don't stick.
       | 
       | I live in a household with catastrophic ADHD. I really have no
       | idea what minor ADHD is like, but the last thing catastrophic
       | ADHD needs is a gaming experience. A gaming experience is not
       | going to cure the brain damage that causes people to require a
       | minimum of 11 hours of sleep per day or misplace everything they
       | own, including clothes, shoes, and wrist watches.
        
         | lawrenceyan wrote:
         | Have you tried meditation? I genuinely am asking.
        
           | austin-cheney wrote:
           | We have, but we didn't try enough types of medication to find
           | an ideal fit. I suspect the right medication would be
           | helpful. The more extreme the ADHD the higher the
           | concentration of medication is required to achieve normal
           | functioning which means high side effects.
           | 
           | To understand the complexity of brain medication requires an
           | understanding of the problem. For ADHD the problem is both
           | dopamine and low serotonin. Dopamine is complicated and
           | moderating for it has second and third order consequences the
           | ill cannot see. Solving for serotonin is simple and the
           | results are crystal clear. So it seems many of the
           | medications attempt to adjust for both with various degrees
           | of success. When a person with ADHD attempts to self medicate
           | with drugs, stimulants, or bad food choices they are solving
           | for serotonin up take and it doesn't work.
           | 
           | Another problem with medications in high concentrations is
           | body tolerance which eventually eliminates the value of the
           | medication and medication can run out.
           | 
           | Currently we are working through behavior modification of
           | risk/reward. If you lose something you don't have it anymore
           | so perform a deep dive on that emotional consequence to think
           | of solutions and planning to address that moving forward.
           | This is working but it's supremely and requires overcoming
           | lots of adversity.
        
             | wkipling wrote:
             | I think they meant meditation.
        
             | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
             | Have you tried strattera(atomoxetine)?
        
           | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
           | Not the OP, but I also have catastrophic ADHD as they so
           | eloquently put it.
           | 
           | I've tried several techniques, that have had some minor
           | initial success, but I just get bored and stop doing it.
           | Which is also why I never became a better than beginner
           | guitar player, properly filled out my opening repertoire in
           | chess, finished almost any project I started, or did regular
           | exercise. I just can't get myself to do boring repetitive
           | tasks.
        
         | jackvalentine wrote:
         | I don't wish to be rude but why do you think the author needs
         | to convince you of something regarding what sounds like a very
         | different and difficult circumstance for you?
        
           | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
           | Seems like they're just offering their perspective. I'm sure
           | the author wanted other perspectives, seeing as they wrote a
           | blog post about it, and then posted it here themselves.
        
       | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
       | It's an interesting idea, but you can emulate this(lack of
       | distractions) with some pretty simple configuration of your
       | window manager, so it seems like a poor justification for buying
       | a $3500 device in and of itself.
        
       | boomskats wrote:
       | > This has an interesting effect. I feel less inclined to
       | mindlessly open and use apps, because it has become a
       | fundamentally mindful gesture to do so.
       | 
       | This is a really important point, but I don't think it requires
       | $3500. Switching to an android phone and a portable split
       | keyboard for most (non-programming) deep work resulted in a huge
       | uplift in focus for me, and I really think it's because it made
       | context switching more of a mindful, intentional act. These days
       | I get way more focused writing done on planes/trains/cafes on 4
       | inches of screen than I think I've ever done on my instant-
       | context-switch-keyboard-shortcut-for-everything tiling wm laptop.
        
       | edyc5 wrote:
       | Working from home has been pretty difficult for me as a person
       | with ADHD, everything is just so distracting that I actually went
       | from 3 monitors to 2 monitors to now only just the laptop screen
       | so that way I can force myself to focus. I can't imagine being
       | productive with Vision Pro and it's "infinite" screens and
       | infinite browser tabs. It would be productivity hell for me.
       | 
       | Tho, I have been trying a few different techniques to get myself
       | more focused such as deleting TikTok and forcing myself to keep
       | my phone on Do Not Disturb., etc.
       | 
       | I've even recently built an desktop app around the techniques
       | described in this other HN Post here:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38274782 and using some
       | techniques in Cal Newport's book "Deep Work" which has
       | significantly helped me stay focused and get into a flow state
       | much easier. I'm going to be launching this app soon in the App
       | Store in the coming weeks. Would love to share my app with fellow
       | HN'ers and get some feedback.
       | 
       | Email in my bio if any one wants to give it a try.
        
         | ChildOfChaos wrote:
         | Interesting, for me working from home is a little easier
         | because I don't have the distractions of the office. I get
         | caught up in everyones conversation, so I end up being
         | distracted every time someone else is doing something.
         | 
         | I've never heard of anything like the concept mentioned in the
         | linked article, what is your app? Is it going to be for MacOS?
         | Have you found it useful?
        
       | luxuryballs wrote:
       | I can only imagine that over time this mindful clumsiness will
       | give way to me feeling super bored and tweaked when I took off
       | the device after I've become accustomed to YouTube videos and
       | apps filling an otherwise empty ambiance around whatever I'm
       | doing in normal space.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-02-03 23:00 UTC)