[HN Gopher] Republicans in Congress try to kill FCC's broadband ...
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       Republicans in Congress try to kill FCC's broadband discrimination
       rules
        
       Author : rntn
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2024-02-03 15:26 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | AuryGlenz wrote:
       | As they should - the rules are nonsense. From the article:
       | 
       | A US law required the FCC to issue rules "preventing digital
       | discrimination of access based on income level, race, ethnicity,
       | color, religion, or national origin," and gave the FCC some
       | leeway in how to implement them. The resulting FCC rules let
       | consumers file complaints about alleged discrimination and define
       | the elements the FCC would examine when investigating whether an
       | Internet service provider should be punished for discrimination.
       | 
       | The FCC defined digital discrimination of access as "policies or
       | practices, not justified by genuine issues of technical or
       | economic feasibility, that differentially impact consumers'
       | access to broadband Internet access service based on their income
       | level, race, ethnicity, color, religion, or national origin or
       | are intended to have such differential impact."
       | 
       | I very much doubt ISPs are in the habit to turn down expansion in
       | any area (and therefore more money/maintain their regional
       | monopoly) because of the race of people living there. It seems
       | like a way to force them to build out in non-white neighborhoods
       | over other places even if it doesn't make economic sense.
       | 
       | For one, that's racism against white people by another name. We
       | see that a lot now but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it.
       | 
       | For two, it's just an incredible waste of resources at the FCC.
       | There are better ways to guarantee good internet for _everyone_
       | instead.
        
         | goodSteveramos wrote:
         | "Anti-discrimination" laws are a modern patronage system.
         | Instead of government jobs being given out based on political
         | favors, private companies are forced into giving out the jobs,
         | and if they refuse, (like Elon Musk) they get hit with spurious
         | lawsuits until they comply.
        
         | tremon wrote:
         | _I very much doubt ISPs are in the habit to turn down expansion
         | in any area..._
         | 
         | That's like climate denialism. There is a documented 30-year
         | history of ISPs not expanding their network while claiming
         | subsidies for exactly that:
         | https://newnetworks.com/bookofbrokenpromises.htm .
         | 
         |  _...even if it doesn't make economic sense_
         | 
         | You're conveniently ignoring the "not justified by genuine
         | issues of technical or economic feasibility" in your own
         | goddamn quote.
        
           | cscurmudgeon wrote:
           | > There is a documented 30-year history of ISPs not expanding
           | their network while claiming subsidies for exactly
           | 
           | You are conflating two things.
           | 
           | I haven't read the book but does the data show they did it in
           | a discriminatory manner, that is they didn't expand to
           | minority areas even when it made business sense?
        
           | hitpointdrew wrote:
           | > There is a documented 30-year history of ISPs not expanding
           | their network
           | 
           | Yeah, which has nothing to do with race at all, and
           | everything to do with population density. ISP's don't want to
           | invest to expand to rural areas with few customers for
           | obvious reasons, none of which have anything to do with
           | discrimination of any kind.
        
         | whynotmaybe wrote:
         | Kinda ironic that you call this "racism against white" by
         | subtly saying that non economically profitable neighbourhoods
         | are non white.
         | 
         | Those proposed changes are not racist, they are simply and
         | blindly anti-poor.
        
           | leereeves wrote:
           | GP isn't saying "non economically profitable neighbourhoods
           | are non white."
           | 
           | GP is saying that white non-economically-profitable
           | neighbourhoods get no protection from that rule.
        
             | spookybones wrote:
             | Doesn't preventing discrimination based on income level
             | cover that?
        
               | leereeves wrote:
               | Not always. For example, not when rural areas are
               | excluded.
               | 
               | Also not if, for example, an ISP decides to expand to a
               | minority area instead of a white area because of DEI
               | policies.
               | 
               | In theory that should also be forbidden by the rule
               | against racial discrimination, but in practice it's often
               | not enforced that way.
        
               | vacuity wrote:
               | Would that people could be trusted to not discriminate in
               | any way...maybe some subconscious personal bias, but then
               | surely a group could even out the biases.
        
             | klyrs wrote:
             | Only they do, if you disallow discrimination on the basis
             | of race. This is just more specious bullshit flogging the
             | reverse racism trope.
        
               | leereeves wrote:
               | Which should we do? Disallow discrimination against white
               | people on the basis of race? Or dismiss discussion of
               | such discrimination as "specious bullshit flogging the
               | reverse racism trope"?
               | 
               | I ask because those are diametrically opposed positions,
               | and your second sentence illustrates why the first
               | sometimes doesn't happen.
        
               | text0404 wrote:
               | what are you talking about? this is about discriminating
               | based on race, which includes the white race. your
               | implicit assumption here is that anti-discrimination
               | measures for minorities is discriminatory against white
               | people. which is, uh, not a great take.
        
               | leereeves wrote:
               | Will you stop trying to claim people said things they
               | didn't say? Making up a strawman you can easily attack is
               | not a great take.
        
         | text0404 wrote:
         | "being against discrimination is anti-white, actually." telling
         | on yourself there, bud.
        
       | 303uru wrote:
       | ISPs: "You can't tell us how to spend money ensuring equitable
       | deployment of critical infrastructure!"
       | 
       | Also ISPs: "Ooh! Hey! Can we have some of that money in the jar
       | labeled 'federal money for ensuring equitable deployment of
       | critical infrastructure' ?"
       | 
       | How about this. Take it all back. Public utilities with equal
       | access and reliability for all.
       | 
       | I'm not even going to try and address the other top level comment
       | crying "reverse racism" just WTAF.
        
         | cscurmudgeon wrote:
         | Or just remove subsidies and enforce anti-trust laws to make
         | sure there is real competition.
        
           | jqpabc123 wrote:
           | Go live in Texas and see how that has worked out with their
           | power grid.
        
             | Dig1t wrote:
             | The power goes out just as often in California and Oregon,
             | but news outlets cover the Texas outages for political
             | reasons.
        
               | HeatrayEnjoyer wrote:
               | California and Oregon grids integrate with the rest of
               | the country. Texas' grid does not, for very political
               | reasons.
               | 
               | The two are qualitatively different, it has nothing to do
               | with news coverage.
        
             | cscurmudgeon wrote:
             | Do you think the Texas grid is not regulated?
             | 
             | California has more outages than Texas.
             | 
             | There is a difference between regulation and subsidies.
             | 
             | Texas has much cheaper electricy than California:
             | 
             | https://quickelectricity.com/texas-and-california-energy-
             | sid...
             | 
             | > Texas is the top producer of renewable electricity in the
             | US, followed by California. Both states are rich in
             | renewable sources and actively working to expand their
             | generation capacity.
             | 
             | Edit: Texas is not a free market! It has subsidies &
             | regulations.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | _Do you think the Texas grid is not regulated?_
               | 
               | It is regulated to make long term reliability and
               | capacity planning economically unviable.
               | 
               |  _California has more outages than Texas._
               | 
               | Mainly due to wild fires which are beyond anyone's
               | control. The outages in Texas are mostly the direct
               | result of political ideology and incompetence.
        
               | cscurmudgeon wrote:
               | > The outages in Texas are mostly the direct result of
               | political ideology and incompetence
               | 
               | Do you have any metric that validates what you say?
               | Becuase, a reasonable person can calmly make the opposite
               | argument.
               | 
               | You can protect the grid against wildfires. OTOH,
               | California's utilities also cause wildfires due to
               | incompetence [1]. Texas had a record-low winter storm
               | that caused a major outage.
               | 
               | Also, California's electricity is more than twice as
               | costly as that of Texas.
               | 
               | https://quickelectricity.com/texas-and-california-energy-
               | sid...
               | 
               | https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/pge-to-
               | pay-55-million-fo...
               | 
               | > Pacific Gas & Electric has agreed to pay more than $55
               | million to avoid criminal prosecution for two major
               | wildfires started by aging Northern California power
               | lines belonging to the nation's largest utility,
               | prosecutors announced Monday
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | _Texas had a record-low winter storm that caused a major
               | outage._
               | 
               | Followed by record high summer heat that caused outages
               | too. Texas power grid operates on the verge of collapse
               | --- because of bassackwards "free market" ideology. You
               | don't have to take my word for it, several studies have
               | said the same.
               | 
               |  _Also, California 's electricity is more than twice as
               | costly as that of Texas._
               | 
               | Texas uses tax payer money to subsidize their grid's
               | inadequacy. They pay selected large enterprises to
               | shutdown and stop consuming when their grid starts to
               | fail.
               | 
               | https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoin-mining-
               | cryptocurrency-r...
               | 
               | This is the prevailing "free market" ideology in Texas
               | --- instead of making it economically viable for
               | providers to add more capacity.
        
               | blowsand wrote:
               | That's false. PG&E is the largest provider in the state
               | and their outages are caused by poor quality controls,
               | lack of line and pole maintenance, vegetation overgrowth,
               | poor resilience to weather conditions, and carelessness,
               | primarily. This -results- in fires at times, and they are
               | in constant litigation. They have a dysfunctional-by-
               | design relation with the cpuc.
        
         | Dig1t wrote:
         | Racism against white people exists, there's nothing "reverse"
         | about it. You can discriminate and exclude based on any skin
         | color.
         | 
         | Competition is what we need, look at cities where Google fiber
         | is available, internet for everyone is faster and cheaper than
         | anywhere in the country and there are of course no data caps in
         | those cities.
         | 
         | It's why internet is way better in Kansas City than Silicon
         | Valley. Kansas City has actual competition in their marketplace
         | and common people provably benefit.
        
           | HeatrayEnjoyer wrote:
           | Systemic racism does not exist against whites in the US.
        
             | worksonmine wrote:
             | There are politicians agitating against white people in the
             | US. Doesn't get more systemic than that. Let's not even get
             | into the think tanks, or the media explaining how whites
             | becoming a minority is a good thing.
             | 
             | And all this is okay, in the name of diversity. It's crazy,
             | racism is racism and this rhetoric is only antagonizing.
             | Nothing good will come of it.
             | 
             | We have similar issues in my country but not to the extent
             | I see in the US.
        
               | frob wrote:
               | Could you please give an example of a major politician
               | agitating against white people? To be specific, I do not
               | mean someone pointing out that our system has been built
               | to privlidge white people at the behest of white people,
               | but a politician specifically agitating against white
               | people.
               | 
               | Because I can find endless pages of the head of the
               | Republican party agitating against Mexicans (they're
               | sending rapists), Latinos, Black people (shithole
               | countries), Muslims (literally banned them after musing
               | about how great it would be to kill them with bullets
               | dipped in pig's blood), and Asians (Wuhan flu and China
               | virus, over and over and over).
        
               | worksonmine wrote:
               | Biden for one:
               | 
               | > An unrelenting stream of immigration, nonstop, nonstop.
               | Folks like me who were Caucasian, of European descent for
               | the first time in 2017 will be in an absolute minority in
               | the United States of America, absolute minority. Fewer
               | than 50 percent of the people in America from then and on
               | will be White European stock. That's not a bad thing.
               | That's a source of our strength.
               | 
               | And that's a very innocent one, but terrifying
               | nonetheless. Imagine the same wording but about how a
               | reduction in blacks would be a strength, all hell would
               | break lose.
        
               | klyrs wrote:
               | Failing to panic about the Great Replacement is racism
               | now? Cuuuute.
        
               | vacuity wrote:
               | It doesn't seem to me that Biden is calling for culling
               | of white people or whatever. The US has long been
               | regarded as a melting pot of cultures, and Biden just
               | seems quite enthusiastic that there'll be more of that.
               | White people have, as a group, (not every single white
               | person, of course) been overrepresented in some ways. It
               | would be alarming if people talked about a reduction in
               | the black population because they've historically been
               | oppressed and disadvantaged, and they don't make a huge
               | portion of the population.
        
               | mbfg wrote:
               | I missed the part in the constitution where it said
               | America should be made up of mostly whites. If you want
               | more whites in america, i guess you should have more
               | children.
        
             | bradley_taunt wrote:
             | Isn't racism just racism? Racism is garbage regardless of
             | "history" attached to it. No place for any of it.
             | 
             | Maybe my view is over simplistic, but it seems the most
             | obvious.
        
             | ThisIsMyAltAcct wrote:
             | Sure it does: college admissions and air traffic controller
             | hiring are two recent examples.
             | 
             | https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-
             | scandal-...
        
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