[HN Gopher] Math Built the Modern World
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       Math Built the Modern World
        
       Author : vwoolf
       Score  : 12 points
       Date   : 2024-02-01 18:42 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (worksinprogress.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (worksinprogress.co)
        
       | 082349872349872 wrote:
       | Note especially the image "the calculating paradigm":
       | https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/wG_lVbOftwaPOzjxlhT-6V5...
       | 
       | All magic is supposed to work on this principle: one starts with
       | a real-world problem, applies some ("sympathetic")
       | correspondences to arrive at a magical representation, and
       | manipulates that representation ("pins in the voodoo doll") in
       | order to apply it and result in a real-world action.
       | 
       | However, mathematics seems to be the only* subset of magic where
       | the (in the case of mathematics: Galois) correspondence back to
       | the real world proves effective!
       | 
       | * marketers and politicians may disagree
        
       | roenxi wrote:
       | As theories go I like it, but I don't think the headline and
       | conclusion are supported by the article. The meat seems to be
       | that math was important, but materials science and manufacturing
       | technique to achieve greater precision was most critical.
       | 
       | > The pioneers of the Industrial Revolution valorized
       | precision...
       | 
       | This phrase to me is the key of the whole thing. They weren't
       | excited about what we would recognise today as maths. They wanted
       | accurate manufacturing and measurement.
       | 
       | That does naturally dovetail into improved mathematical
       | technique, but I think it is incorrect to say that math is the
       | driver here. Precision is the driver. That has remained true to
       | today by the way (most precise manufacturing? semiconductors).
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | > As theories go I like it, but I don't think the headline and
         | conclusion are supported by the article.
         | 
         | Right. What the author doesn't really pick up on is how
         | engineering developed. Before 1800 or so, science and math were
         | not routinely used by people who built stuff. Edison tended to
         | deride mathematical theorists, although he hired some.
         | 
         | Early navigation and astronomy required math, but that was
         | mostly measurement, not design. The first thing that really
         | required math in the engineering was the steam engine. It's
         | possible to build a steam engine with no understanding of
         | thermodynamics, but it will be a really crappy steam engine.
         | Watt's early engines were about 2% efficient. Carnot, in 1824,
         | published "Reflections on the Motive Power of Fire", which, for
         | the first time, addressed engine design in terms of heat,
         | pressure, efficiency, heat transfer, etc. Around the middle of
         | the 19th century, Joule and Kelvin finally got a decent
         | mathematical theory for heat engines. Engine designs improved
         | substantially and efficiencies went up. At last, direct use of
         | math in engineering was really paying off.
         | 
         | Early electrical work was trial and error. Sort of. Edison
         | publicly derided theorists, but he had some on his payroll.
         | When AC came along, more theory was needed. Now calculus was
         | required. Westinghouse and Tesla got involved, and generators,
         | motors, and transformers started working much better. (I've
         | pointed out before that Tesla's real contribution was that he
         | figured out how to get AC electric motors started.) Good motors
         | require electromagnetic fields in strange shapes, and intuition
         | fails for that. You need math.
        
       | 303uru wrote:
       | More of the "everything uses maths so everything is maths!"
       | trend.
       | 
       | The Industrial Revolution was fueled by more than just
       | mathematical advancements; it was equally driven by empirical
       | experimentation, practical innovation, and socio-economic
       | factors. Innovators like James Watt relied heavily on trial-and-
       | error and hands-on experience, not just mathematical models.
       | Technological breakthroughs such as the spinning jenny and power
       | loom stemmed more from mechanical ingenuity than from direct
       | mathematical applications. Moreover, the rise of capitalist
       | economies, availability of investment capital, and political
       | stability played crucial roles in facilitating industrial growth.
       | These elements, combined with a consumer culture, suggest that
       | the revolution was as much about socio-economic transformation as
       | it was about a mathematical paradigm shift.
       | 
       | Additionally, the revolution cannot be seen solely through the
       | lens of mathematics, as it underplays the significance of
       | scientific understanding and multidisciplinary collaboration.
       | Scientific theories in physics, chemistry, and biology provided
       | essential underpinnings for technological advancements. The
       | development of efficient steam engines, for example, was closely
       | tied to the understanding of thermodynamics. Furthermore, the
       | Industrial Revolution was a result of collaboration among
       | mathematicians, scientists, and craftsmen, blending theoretical
       | concepts with practical applications. The evolution of education,
       | encompassing both mathematical and practical skills training,
       | also played a pivotal role in preparing the workforce for
       | industrial challenges. Thus, the revolution was a multifaceted
       | phenomenon, influenced by a blend of practical experience,
       | scientific knowledge, and socio-economic developments.
       | 
       | I recently read "Lost in Math" by Sabine Hossenfelder and I'm
       | seeing some similarities here. Hossenfelder's book critiques
       | modern theoretical physics, particularly its reliance on
       | aesthetic criteria such as beauty and simplicity in maths, which
       | she argues can lead physicists astray from empirical science. The
       | idea that the most elegant or beautiful mathematical equations
       | are the best or most accurate representations of the physical
       | world has almost become comedy.
        
       | ecshafer wrote:
       | I think the issue here is that it neglects how much overlap there
       | was between being a Physicist and Mathematician in the
       | 1600s-1900. I don't think anyone would say Newton, Gauss, Euler,
       | Lagrange, etc. were not mathematicians and physicists. Very often
       | Astronomy, Optics, Mathematics, etc. were just part of the same
       | fields. Now we have more delineation. And even with mathematics
       | and science, you still need trial and error and engineering to
       | actually make machines.
        
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