[HN Gopher] Spider webs capture environmental DNA from terrestri...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Spider webs capture environmental DNA from terrestrial vertebrates
        
       Author : sohkamyung
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2024-02-01 13:33 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cell.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cell.com)
        
       | pvaldes wrote:
       | Kept on a zoo enclosure. This point is important IMAO.
        
         | crazydoggers wrote:
         | > Webs from woodland and zoo show eDNA from native and non-
         | native fauna, respectively
        
           | pvaldes wrote:
           | It does not matter, the effect on the enclosure is the
           | problem.
        
         | djtriptych wrote:
         | They compared a web found in native woodlands to a web in a zoo
         | enclosure to demonstrate the potential to detect local animal
         | populations. The zoo had more species because it's a zoo. They
         | didn't limit the study to only zoo-bound webs as you seem to be
         | suggesting.
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | This will be really neat when we have Spide-Spun-Space-
           | Sensors whereby a planet it cluster-bombed with sensor-balls
           | with a special spider-silk-style web which can grab DNA, but
           | onboard sequence it... and report back to the orbiting drone
           | before self destruction.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | You can just vacuum and filter the air for dna
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | Wow, crime scene DNA-Devil: Here is a simple attempt at
               | an sensor gun to dirt-devil up crimescene DNA powered by
               | SyDNAr sensors (TM):
               | 
               | https://i.imgur.com/kkxhEqJ.jpg
               | 
               | https://i.imgur.com/aMk7UfM.jpg
               | 
               | :-)
        
       | jnsaff2 wrote:
       | Oh! Reminds me of my favorite Sci-Fi ever:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Time_(novel)
        
         | cgriswald wrote:
         | I'm on the third book of The Final Architecture Series and it's
         | great space opera with good story-telling. The world of the
         | series feels real and yet mysterious and fantastical.
         | 
         | I looked into his other series when I discovered him and was
         | hesitant to get invested in Children of Time because the
         | reviews I read were mixed and many said it was (paraphrasing
         | here) good but something of a slog.
         | 
         | What do you love about it, and--if you've read them--how does
         | it compare to TFA series?
        
           | blamestross wrote:
           | Spider Civilization.
           | 
           | I like TFA a lot, but it is very character driven. CoT is a
           | collectivist story, the non-human-centric story reads like
           | David Attenborough is narrating it. I like that part a lot.
           | 
           | The human/character driven parts of the story feel a bit
           | tacked-on and not actually critical to the themes and
           | messages of the story.
           | 
           | I think it is worth a read, and the sequels are more
           | character driven than CoT.
        
             | cmrx64 wrote:
             | Maybe I was hallucinatung more detail than was there, but I
             | found parts of the book had stunning parallels between the
             | themes of each storyline, where the symbolic struggles by
             | each cast of characters informed or reflected somehow the
             | struggles of the other.
        
             | cgriswald wrote:
             | Hey, thanks for the response. This helps.
        
           | geden wrote:
           | Children of Time series a slog? Wow. It's a page turning
           | spine tingling, rip roarer. Stuffed full of high concepts,
           | great characters and wry humour.
           | 
           | As is the second book. Which kind of adds a horror slant.
           | 
           | The third book is more ambitious and conceptual and in parts,
           | slightly harder going. Still highly rewarding.
           | 
           | Best hardish SF series I've read in recent years.
        
         | wegfawefgawefg wrote:
         | I like this book but the human parts suck!! I just wanna read
         | about spiders. Not about some people on a ship.
        
           | sockaddr wrote:
           | True, but the dysfunctional humans give much needed context!
        
             | sdenton4 wrote:
             | And Kern - arguably human, at some point in the narrative -
             | is one of my all-time favorite characters.
        
         | FrustratedMonky wrote:
         | The Barbie Movie was huge right?
         | 
         | But I would love to see a feminist movie made from "Children of
         | Time". Female Spider society
         | 
         | Where the Female Spiders rule, and eat the men.
         | 
         | And casually talk to each other like "you feel like going to
         | hunt some men tonight", and literally eat them.
        
       | ethbr1 wrote:
       | Neat! A segment on this was on my local NPR yesterday.
       | 
       | As noted in the article, the aim is to boost (chronically
       | underfunded and logistically challenging) biodiversity studies.
       | 
       | >> _With only trace amounts of DNA needed to identify species,
       | the data obtained have the ability to strengthen biodiversity
       | assessments through improving the detection and monitoring of
       | rare, cryptic, or protected species, increasing the taxonomic
       | resolution of biodiversity surveys, allowing for increased
       | sampling of inhospitable or challenging environments to survey,
       | and aiding in the early detection of invasive species._
       | 
       | Critically, they just used a plastic stick to collect webs. So
       | pretty cost-effective!
       | 
       | Looks like UV plays a major degrading role, so sunlight-shielded
       | webs yielded the best results. Which makes sense, because DNA.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | Tangent: this could potentially be used to surveil humans in
         | sensitive areas, such as banks. If humans shed enough DNA via
         | exfoliation and breathing, you could capture DNA and process it
         | in the event of a robbery. eDNA surveillance could become a
         | valuable tool in heavy crime areas.
         | 
         | It could possibly also be used to surveil humans more
         | nefariously, though. IIRC, I think this was a plot point of
         | GATTACA.
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | You can already do this by sampling the air, no spiderweb
           | needed.
           | 
           | https://www.science.org/content/article/dna-pulled-thin-
           | air-...
        
       | krunck wrote:
       | Also great for surveillance of human mammals, especially for
       | knowing which ones frequent which areas. That is assuming you
       | already have their DNA for comparison. Or no? Would this work?
        
         | bglazer wrote:
         | Probably not, DNA degrades relatively quickly in uncontrolled
         | conditions, so the unique markers of an individual human would
         | probably be hard to grab from a dust particle suspended on a
         | spider web. This works for detecting different species, not
         | necessarily individuals.
         | 
         | Plus, there are infinitely easier ways of surveilling humans,
         | like just watching where their GPS tracked phones go.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | There are also easier ways of tracking humans via DNA - we're
           | literally shedding genetic material with every step, on
           | everything we touch. Skin flakes here, saliva there, etc.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | And all of that is dispersed in the air that you could
             | theoretically collect and sample in your hvac system.
        
           | verisimi wrote:
           | > DNA degrades relatively quickly in uncontrolled conditions
           | 
           | Alternatively, it hangs around for millions of years.
           | 
           | https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2022/december/worlds-
           | old...
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | Yes it works for mammals too. It works with just a vacuum even
         | outdoors.
         | 
         | https://www.science.org/content/article/dna-pulled-thin-air-...
        
         | a_bonobo wrote:
         | there's a cool preprint from a few weeks ago where they
         | sequenced a collection of 34 years worth of air-filters in
         | Sweden: lots of mammals! eDNA, just from air.
         | https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.12.06.569882v1
         | 
         | Up to ~35% of the detected DNA was human (Fig S5)
        
       | tome wrote:
       | I was curious about the use of "terrestial", and it looks like it
       | means "not aquatic" rather than "not from outer space".
        
         | wegfawefgawefg wrote:
         | i think terrestrial would mean earthly. from the latin root,
         | terra, for earth. from space is extra-terrestrial. But then
         | greek is geo, or gaio like gaia. but we dont call aliens super-
         | gaians. I dont know where im going with this. Language is
         | messy. English doesnt include every version of every root. We
         | do have subterranian though. Superterranian?
        
         | curiouscavalier wrote:
         | We've sent spiders to space[0] (honestly, it's like we _want_ a
         | horror movie to play out). But who knows - maybe one day we'll
         | get DNA from extraterrestrials.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.si.edu/newsdesk/releases/world-s-first-
         | spidernau...
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-02-01 23:01 UTC)