[HN Gopher] Palworld's success is partially born from Pokemon fa...
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       Palworld's success is partially born from Pokemon fans' discontent
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 19 points
       Date   : 2024-01-30 20:22 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.polygon.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.polygon.com)
        
       | WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
       | It is not the same genre and therefore not the same target
       | audience (Story Driven Turn Based RPG vs Base Building Survival)
        
         | nrb wrote:
         | It's strikingly similar to Pokemon Legends: Arceus though.
        
         | thereisnospork wrote:
         | If palworld had been called 'pokeworld' and featured the
         | canonical Pokemon instead of pals would you still argue the
         | target audience isn't the same? What does the name of the
         | critters really matter?
         | 
         | Palworld is the RC cola of the game Pokemon fans have been
         | wanting.
         | 
         | Edit: From another angle: what is it about palworld that
         | couldn't have been delivered by a Pokemon(tm) game had Nintendo
         | et al not been asleep at the wheel? (Costing them, so far,
         | hundreds of millions USD)
        
           | ronsor wrote:
           | Re: your edit
           | 
           | An experience not bogged down by "brand safety"
        
             | incrudible wrote:
             | > brand safety
             | 
             | Exactly. What I have seen from this game seems off-putting
             | and distasteful for a universe ostensibly designed for
             | children. I also do not buy into the _Pokemon should grow
             | up with its audience_ argument. There is another generation
             | of children growing up, after all.
        
               | Rebelgecko wrote:
               | The violence really isn't any more graphic than the
               | Pokemon games or TV shows. When you knock out a
               | Mareep/Lamball, it's eyes turn into cartoony Xs and it
               | rolls away.
               | 
               | I guess it's distasteful how the game doesn't sweep the
               | slavery aspect under the rug, but that doesn't make the
               | original IP any less problematic
        
         | geoelectric wrote:
         | That's a quick dismissal.
         | 
         | If I weren't already a Pokemon fan I wouldn't have bothered
         | with Palworld, because I don't care much for Ark (the game
         | whose loop it largely duplicates).
         | 
         | And the fact that Game Freak can't seem to code a mainline
         | Pokemon game that runs well on Switch certainly did help whet
         | my appetite. If I'd been more satisfied with Sword/Shield or
         | Scarlet/Violet, I probably wouldn't have jumped on this one.
         | Unfortunately, neither runs very well--particularly
         | Scarlet/Violet, which was dumped rough and flat out abandoned
         | for performance patches.
         | 
         | As the other commenter said, Palworld is not all that
         | dissimilar to the open-world title Arceus, which is coded
         | competently enough. But I like having more to do in my open
         | world than just fulfilling challenge lists. If there's story in
         | Arceus, I peeled off out of boredom well before it presented
         | itself. At least in Palworld I can build a base, etc.
         | 
         | So yes, my interest absolutely had something to do with the
         | decline in Pokemon games for this latest generation.
         | 
         | It may surprise you to know that a) gamers cross genres on a
         | regular basis and b) the Pokemon franchise itself is multi-
         | genre (the card game, Snap, and Go! being big obvious
         | examples). Genres basically just don't matter to this equation.
         | We're here for the monsters.
        
         | Khalos wrote:
         | Is that not sort of exactly the point?
         | 
         | People love the concept of pokemon and monster collection, and
         | it hasn't really evolved beyond the same RPG formula in 20
         | years.
         | 
         | Nintendo has utterly failed to deliver different experiences in
         | the franchise. There's clearly an appetite for it.
         | 
         | I don't think different genres mean a completely different
         | target audience. Most gamers play multiple genres, and there's
         | a massive overlap of fans of Pokemon and fans of Palworld in
         | particular.
        
         | everforward wrote:
         | It's absolutely the same target audience: Pokemon fans. There's
         | a lot of us out here that haven't played a Pokemon game since
         | the early 2000's when we played the 3rd basically-the-same
         | Pokemon game and gave up.
         | 
         | Frankly, I think Pokemon's adult sales are mostly nostalgia and
         | that the gameplay or genre matters very little. Turn-based RPGs
         | can be a lot of fun, but Pokemon doesn't seem to have notably
         | changed since I played it as a kid. It also exists in a world
         | of competition; Baldur's Gate 3 and Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader
         | are both turn-based RPG's. The Divinity series as well.
        
           | doublerabbit wrote:
           | Ouch. That hit me.
           | 
           | Completed Pokemon Blue only using blastoise.
           | 
           | Played Sapphire as a rom
           | 
           | Bought Soul Silver at an airport to play on the plane to
           | California to see a friend.
           | 
           | Never touched Pokemon again.
        
           | shirogane86x wrote:
           | As someone who kept playing Pokemon (and who has casually
           | played online matches since gen 4) the game did change... But
           | not in good ways.
           | 
           | The mechanics and the balance got better (even if power creep
           | is a very real thing). In fact, going back now, early pokemon
           | titles are, mechanically, extremely weak (especially the ones
           | before diamond/pearl).
           | 
           | The problem is that the single player experience is extremely
           | lacking. The games were never hard, but as the player gained
           | tools they became even easier. The story peaked at
           | Black/White and then kept oscillating between forgettable and
           | downright horrible.
           | 
           | The performance of the games has also steadily gotten worse,
           | and Scarlet/Violet is the worst point in the series on that
           | front. By a mile.
           | 
           | The problem for me, and for I assume many other players, is
           | that it's sadly a one of a kind franchise. It's probably the
           | one with the most content in its own sub-genre (there's very
           | few catch-em-all type games that hold a candle to it), and
           | it's also the only turn based rpg with a competitive scene on
           | the market. I've probably collectively spent tens of
           | thousands of hours on the franchise over a span of 16 years
           | or so and unless something that can even get close to the
           | experience pokemon gives me gets made, I'm kinda stuck.
        
           | lsaferite wrote:
           | I've never played Pokemon, but I have played Ark and BOTW.
           | Palworld is like a love child of multiple games that I love
           | and does a reasonable job at them (IMHO).
        
       | ZunarJ5 wrote:
       | Pokemon did not mature with its primary audience.
        
         | idiotsecant wrote:
         | I'm not sure it's just that, some of their latest offerings are
         | just really, really, really low quality. The original Pokemon
         | games might not have been high brow adult media but they were
         | well crafted enough that anyone could enjoy them.
        
           | shirogane86x wrote:
           | To be honest, not most of them. It took until GBA era to get
           | some decent mainline games, and the series probably peaked
           | around DS era, both mainline and spin offs. Gen 1 and 2 have
           | so many flaws that make them age really badly
        
             | bradjohnson wrote:
             | What flaws? Age really badly in what sense?
        
           | maxbond wrote:
           | I kinda think the Pokemon games are badly designed. I haven't
           | played the last few generations, but my experience was that
           | it was constant grinding, exploring was tiresome because you
           | were constantly dealing with wild pokemon and trainers, the
           | combat isn't interesting enough to carry the game, and there
           | is no real progression. The trainers go from being total
           | pushovers the entire game, to suddenly being quite difficult.
           | 
           | When I think of Pokemon I think of feeling powerful because
           | my starter Pokemon could defeat any team in the game on it's
           | own - to getting to the end and suddenly needing a well
           | rounded team. It felt like a bait and switch. "You thought
           | you were good at this game? No! You suck! Go grind forever to
           | level the rest of your team!"
           | 
           | It feels like a game of rock paper scissors grafted onto a
           | grinding simulator. It feels like they add more Pokemon and
           | more ways to grind, but what I would want from it is keeping
           | the same Pokemon I grew up with and am emotionally invested
           | in, with less grind and more ways to feel like I am Ash
           | Ketchum.
           | 
           | But I'm an RPG fan, so maybe these games just aren't for me,
           | and there's a different personality which enjoys minmaxing
           | and novel Pokemon who are the right audience.
        
         | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
         | That's like saying Disney didn't mature with its primary
         | audience. Pokemon isn't made for people in their late 20s,
         | early 30s; it's made for and marketed to children.
         | 
         | I say this as a pretty massive fan of the franchise; I only
         | skipped gens 4/5 because I didn't have the personal disposable
         | income to buy a DS. I'm sure VGC[0] is the primary reason most
         | adults choose to purchase the new games, among those who do.
         | 
         | 0: https://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/pokemon-
         | events/pokem...
        
       | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
       | Is there a goal to all of the surviving and crafting in
       | _Palworld_? Or is it like _Rust_ and _7 Days To Die_ with a good
       | engine but no intrinsic motivation to play?
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-30 23:01 UTC)