[HN Gopher] Show HN: Mailready - meet the new email deliverabili...
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       Show HN: Mailready - meet the new email deliverability standards
        
       Author : kehers
       Score  : 66 points
       Date   : 2024-01-30 12:25 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mailready.info)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mailready.info)
        
       | Brajeshwar wrote:
       | Some of these popped up on Hacker New recently;
       | 
       | - Learn and Test DMARC[1] does a visual breakdown of how email
       | servers communicate, giving you a better understanding of SPF,
       | DKIM, and DMARC and how they work together.
       | 
       | - Mail-Tester[2] - test the spammyness of your emails.
       | 
       | - MECSA[3] is an online tool developed by the Joint Research
       | Centre (JRC)[4] to assess the security of email communication
       | between providers.
       | 
       | 1. https://www.learndmarc.com
       | 
       | 2. https://www.mail-tester.com
       | 
       | 3. https://mecsa.jrc.ec.europa.eu/en/
       | 
       | 4. https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/index_en
        
       | rkagerer wrote:
       | If you have SPF but not DKIM is that sufficient for
       | deliverability to these providers?
        
         | LeonM wrote:
         | For DMARC alignment you need either SPF alignment _or_ DKIM
         | alignment, either one will do. (note that  'alignment' is not
         | the same as an SPF pass).
         | 
         | Which means that you _could_ get away with just SPF alignment,
         | but you wouldn't want to trust on that since SPF is horribly
         | broken and most third party senders don't even bother with SPF
         | alignment anymore. Always focus on DKIM alignment instead.
         | 
         | But if you are now just thinking about this, you're in trouble
         | anyway. If you are sending bulk amounts of email (that is, 5k a
         | day per Google's rules) and you are not yet signing with DKIM,
         | then you are probably not ready for adopting a strong DMARC
         | policy ('quarantine' or 'reject') before Feb 1st.
         | 
         | Email hardening takes time, the larger/more complex your domain
         | is, the more time you probably need to ensure you are DKIM
         | aligned for all your delegated senders. Don't be tempted to
         | just add a DMARC record with p=reject policy, that would be
         | irresponsible and asking for problems (read: undeliverable
         | email).
        
         | justusthane wrote:
         | For mail that you're sending yourself, from your own
         | infrastructure (e.g. the envelope-from address matches the
         | header-from address), DMARC + SPF should be sufficient and is
         | easy to implement.
         | 
         | For third parties that are sending on your behalf, you'll
         | likely need DKIM - but that will be implemented on their side,
         | and all you'll have to do is add the DNS record they give you.
        
       | KingOfCoders wrote:
       | "Send reconfirmation emails to people that have not interacted
       | with your email (no opens or clicks)"
       | 
       | How can I check opens? I'm not aware of any reliable way to check
       | this. Mail clients not loading pixels means the software is
       | unaware of opens?
        
         | toomim wrote:
         | Maybe because they click a link in the confirmation email?
        
         | matt_heimer wrote:
         | Same way as always, image loading. If image URLs are unique and
         | external then you can track their opening. Not all users will
         | allow it so you also track clicking on in email links.
        
           | TylerE wrote:
           | Doesn't just about every mail service proxy, and often
           | preemptively fetch those?
        
             | jeroenhd wrote:
             | Not every service, buy many of them do.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | I'm quite sure GMail does... which is basically the
               | entire internet as far as mail delivery.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | I personally tend to enable delivery/read receipts for new
         | email domains. Big providers will often send you a notification
         | for delivery at least, and prompt for the read receipt.
         | 
         | You can also track your DMARC statistics and figure out what
         | mail domains tend to not deliver your email.
        
       | mike-cardwell wrote:
       | Basic XSS -
       | https://mailready.info/authentication?domain=grepular.com
        
         | kehers wrote:
         | Thanks for this. Will fix.
        
           | mike-cardwell wrote:
           | Your fix is wrong. It states the SPF record is invalid. It is
           | not.
           | 
           | https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7208
           | 
           | > Unrecognized modifiers MUST be ignored no matter where, or
           | how often, they appear in a record. This allows
           | implementations conforming to this document to gracefully
           | handle records with modifiers that are defined in other
           | specifications.
           | 
           | A correct SPF validator will ignore the xss modifier, not
           | treat the SPF record as invalid.
        
       | a_subsystem wrote:
       | Our domain checks out because we use O365. However, we have an
       | old Exchange server sending out via SMTP. We're not sure what the
       | best path forward is for us. Do we change our apps to route
       | through O365? Will probably take days for that. We have in house
       | custom apps that use it heavily. Anyone have good resources on
       | what we should do?
        
         | dashgreen wrote:
         | With the appropriate configuration, your SMTP server could
         | relay to O365, just acting as a forwarder, you don't
         | necessarily have to remove the server. This is very common in
         | use-cases for old devices that barely support SMTP
         | authentication, never mind TLS!
        
       | CodeWriter23 wrote:
       | > What happens if I dont comply? >You get marked as spam? And
       | that's probably the best case scenario. Your email may not get
       | delivered.
       | 
       | My best friend works at a large ISP specifically on their email
       | transport system. They discard 97% of the emails they receive.
       | That's straight into the bit bucket, not to your Junk Mail
       | folder.
        
         | KevinMS wrote:
         | hotmail or comcast? My users complain about email just
         | disappearing, no bounce, no spam folders, just gone.
        
           | CodeWriter23 wrote:
           | I can't disclose his place of employment. He did say this was
           | kinda the reality the big email domains contend with.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | I have seen something similar at a smaller ISP, but the
         | silently discarded email usually came from domains with bad SPF
         | setups.
         | 
         | Really infuriating, because customers would not believe that
         | this wasn't a problem on our end, it was the other side telling
         | us to discard their email!
        
           | Avamander wrote:
           | SPF alone is not a reason for discarding a letter.
        
       | em-bee wrote:
       | this doesn't seem to help for private email.
       | 
       | i want to send email to my friends at google. yet google blocks
       | delivery.
       | 
       | this is not any kind of business or commercial messages. but from
       | my private account to my friends account.
       | 
       | SPF and DMARC check out and surely private emails should not need
       | unsubscribe headers. so your site says everything is fine. then
       | why does google still reject my emails?
        
         | riedel wrote:
         | This really getting crazy. My daughter nearly did not get into
         | the swimming course because google just black holes the
         | registration confirmation because my wife's used her Gmail.
         | 
         | I really hope that this kind of stuff gets illegal: just taking
         | an email and virtually burning it.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | this really sums up my feelings. i have sent emails to people
           | past that i have no other way to reach and never got a reply,
           | and i have no idea if they even got my email.
           | 
           | and the same the other way around. which is one reason why i
           | run my own server.
           | 
           | i always believed that spam filtering must be done at the end
           | user, and noone else has the right to block email from
           | reaching me. in particular the most obvious thing, every
           | address that i send to, should automatically be whitelisted
           | as a valid sender, unless i explicitly mark it as spam. the
           | exceptions should be obvious DMARC/DKIM/SPF violations.
           | 
           | at one point i was even working on my own email server to
           | implement this kind of whitelisting/filtering myself.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | > then why does google still reject my emails?
         | 
         | Multiple options. For example, your IP address may not have a
         | good reputation. This can happen when a previous tennant used
         | your IP address to send spam, but it also happens when you send
         | very little email to Google/Microsoft servers, not giving you
         | the opportunity to build a good reputation. I briefly
         | considered sending my mail server logs to Gmail so I could get
         | regular whitelisted email delivered, but I changed my mind when
         | I realised Google would probably mark my domain as a bot.
         | 
         | This seems particularly bad on IPv6 for some reason. I'm not
         | sure why, maybe it's because their spam filters are treating
         | every address as a /128 rather than a /64 network?
         | 
         | The worst server in my experience is Microsoft Exchange. I
         | caught the stupid platform taking my email, _rewriting the
         | email address because it didn't like it (despite being
         | compliant!)_, and _then_ checking the DKIM signature, which
         | obviously failed. It doesn't have IPv6 deliverability issues,
         | though, because like many Microsoft cloud products, it doesn't
         | even support IPv6. Microsoft Outlook also sometimes fails the
         | SPF check... because of DNS issues _on Microsoft's side_.
         | 
         | None of this is standards compliant, of course. The best you
         | can do is DKIM+SPF+reverse PTR+strict DMARC+DNSSEC+DANE+using
         | some expensive data center so there aren't many spammers in the
         | nearby IPv4 blocks. Most of these can be generated
         | automatically through online tools or ready-out-of-the-box
         | email servers such as Mailinabox or Mailcow.
         | 
         | Also, _check your configuration regularly_, set up alerts or
         | something; sometimes something may break and your domain/email
         | address will start losing reputation.
         | 
         | It's infuriating to get email delivered, even if you do
         | everything right. I've given up on that stuff, though, and tell
         | everyone I email to check their spam folder and move it to
         | their inbox to train their spam filter.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | _when you send very little email to Google /Microsoft
           | servers, not giving you the opportunity to build a good
           | reputation_
           | 
           | this is something i find really frustrating, because, how am
           | i supposed to fix that?
           | 
           | it's a personal server. there simply isn't that much outgoing
           | traffic. and then, because google rejects my emails i have to
           | use a different server to send mails to gmail.
           | 
           | so how exactly would i generate that neessary traffic that
           | unblocks me? (this is kind of a rethorical question, i don't
           | expect a real answer here because i don't believe a real
           | answer exists)
           | 
           | should i write every email twice? from two different senders?
           | i feel that would make the emails even more suspect than
           | making things better.
           | 
           | send fake emails? that would be like sending spam in order to
           | convince google that i am not sending spam.
           | 
           | seems to me that if low traffic is really the reason then
           | there is no hope, and all i can do is to give up, which for
           | now is what i did.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | My social group has been shifting away from using the internet-
         | wide email system to using a private one just among us that we
         | run. It works well in my group because most of the emails we
         | send/receive are amongst ourselves anyway.
         | 
         | All of these antispam measures are fighting a losing battle --
         | every one of them reduces the utility of email and are only
         | (barely) acceptable because spammers reduce the utility of
         | email to an even greater degree.
         | 
         | By running our own email system that doesn't interconnect with
         | the internet's, email has become actually useful again.
        
         | StayTrue wrote:
         | IP-based rejection may be the answer. You may not be doing
         | anything problematic but if your IP neighbors misbehave, your
         | IP will be blacklisted too.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | i am considering that, but it has worked before, and i have
           | this same IP for years now. (i am not 100% certain, but i am
           | pretty sure i already had this same IP when it did work)
           | 
           | anyways, my suggestion here would be that an IP check would
           | be a feature that mailready.info could include.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-30 23:01 UTC)