[HN Gopher] How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after th...
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How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK
assassination (2013)
Author : pablode
Score : 81 points
Date : 2024-01-28 19:58 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.openculture.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.openculture.com)
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| > _... there must be some kind of conspiracy between communists,
| blacks, poets and French philosophers._
|
| If you can connect these dots, then
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati_(game) might be for you!
|
| (but see also
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_Games,_Inc._v._U... )
| zozbot234 wrote:
| I'm pretty sure that " _... there must be some kind of
| conspiracy_ " is the literal definition of a Conspiracy Theory.
| Nice to see that even the FBI is into that fun stuff.
| pstuart wrote:
| The FBI has a checkered history. We do need federal level
| policing but, like all policing, it needs to be buttressed by
| accountability and oversight.
| hughesjj wrote:
| Rip Fred Hampton. Hoover, he was a body remover.
| Exoristos wrote:
| Wait till you learn about RICO.
| neovialogistics wrote:
| At what point in history did the FBI first begin to require
| aptitude tests to become an agent?
| throwaway8877 wrote:
| There is necessarily no cross-links between all of them, but
| there is a link. If you can't imagine that a state that is
| obsessively dreaming about the world revolution and has a wide
| spy network and large group of naive sympathisers doesn't try
| to infiltrate all the possible influential counter cultures
| then you are a little too naive.
| pessimizer wrote:
| "If you can't imagine" is a bad start. If you're imagining
| people obsessively dreaming about destroying you, and using
| the naive "blacks" to do it, you're about a millimeter away
| from joining the fight against "Judeo-Bolshevism."
| froggysnail wrote:
| Well, before spreading fake news (aka lies), read Wikipedia
| and who's behind the revolution
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Revolution
| hk__2 wrote:
| > If you can't imagine that a state that is obsessively
| dreaming about the world revolution and has a wide spy
| network and large group of naive sympathisers doesn't try to
| infiltrate all the possible influential counter cultures then
| you are a little too naive.
|
| How are Blacks, communists and poets "counter cultures"?
| mhitza wrote:
| Because it was the counter culture, eg Black Panthers,
| youth communist parties
| throwaway8877 wrote:
| I take the most favorable interpretation and I presume that
| the young age is in play in such large ignorance.
|
| Obviously the notion of poets doesn't contain all of them
| like the ones who write rhymes for children but poetry has
| since Age of Enlightenment been a tool of political
| critique if not earlier. The same applies to philosophy.
| I'm hope that you for sure have heard of Marx.
|
| I also hope that you have learned about civil rights
| movement of the black people and Martin Luther King.
|
| So which one of all of the four has the support of a large
| superstate with an extensive spy network?
| throwaway8877 wrote:
| And what comes to McCarthy then he had every right to be
| extremely paranoid about the activities of Soviet Union
| in attempts to secretly influence American politics from
| the within. The work of American counter intelligence
| agencies is a clear proof of it.
|
| Recommended read https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/o
| pinions/1996/04/14/w...
| mistrial9 wrote:
| no because a healthy politics does include alternative
| views. It is the unhealthy security mindset that becomes
| inflexible @! and does anyone now support the activity of
| Senator Joe McCarthy, honestly?
| gosub100 wrote:
| so anything is falsifiable if you create a board game using its
| components? Moon-landing conspirators unite!
| pfdietz wrote:
| Conspiracies can be dismissed if they are presented without
| convincing evidence. After all, the space of possible
| conspiracies is vast; all but a tiny fraction must be
| nonexistent.
| thriftwy wrote:
| French philosophers were huge fans of Mao, so they would have a
| great deal of explaining to do.
|
| But they're not the worst, I've heard that some English writers
| were great fans of Stalin and contemporary Soviet regime.
|
| I _suspect_ there was a great deal of famous people who were fans
| of Hitler (at least before WWII) but that topic became so toxic
| that they probably made sure that any incriminating sources would
| be corrected.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > I suspect
|
| You can just read. The most surprising thing about WWII, at
| least to many Nazis, is that the US and Britain didn't join the
| Axis. German theories about race were largely drawn from
| British and American sources. The US fought WWII with a
| racially segregated military.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| Ooooh time to drop my favorite WW2 quote
|
| _When Pearl Harbor happened, we [Roosevelt 's advisors] were
| desperate. ... We were all in agony. The mood of the American
| people was obvious - they were determined that the Japanese
| had to be punished. We could have been forced to concentrate
| all our efforts on the Pacific, unable from then on to give
| more than purely peripheral help to Britain. It was truly
| astounding when Hitler declared war on us three days later. I
| cannot tell you our feelings of triumph. It was a totally
| irrational thing for him to do, and I think it saved Europe._
| asveikau wrote:
| White American culture is also kind of dominated by
| descendants of German immigrants. I recall seeing some
| historical racist media that was praising Anglo-German
| supremacy in contrast to Irish, southern and eastern
| Europeans etc. People forget this because the latter groups
| are all considered white now.
|
| I personally think this puts some weight into the "race is a
| social construct" theory. That and the existence of mixed
| race people, and the stories of how they and their families
| have been arbitrarily treated based on varying perceptions.
| It's all pretty absurd.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| stop, stop right there. There was no single "White American
| culture" .. that is a misrepresentation with a purpose!
|
| The original collection of States were formed exactly to
| let groups divide. There were vastly different cultures,
| both culturally bonded, and also diverse, that were
| included from the earliest days.
|
| source: anti-war, anti-slavery "whites" from that time
| toyg wrote:
| That is more an indication of how fundamentally naive many
| Nazis were. British rulers always aimed to break up any
| significantly large European power, it's been their obvious
| geopolitical imperative from before Elizabethan times. That
| necessity trumps any vague sympathy or political affinity _du
| jour_. They would never have allowed Hitler to take over the
| whole continent.
| gilleain wrote:
| For examples of famous Hitler fans, one good example was Unity
| Mitford, one of the 6 Mitford sisters, daughters of an English
| baron.
|
| Unity (and her sister Diana) were so close to Hitler that they
| were part of his inner circle of friends.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Mitford
| jjackson5324 wrote:
| Funny enough, if you look at polling data of Americans... amongst
| people who actually lived during the JFK assassination & later
| investigation and kept up with all the details.... only about 11%
| believed the official narrative. More than 80% thought the
| official narrative was a lie.
|
| Nowadays (when most Americans have just read about it in history
| textbooks), it feels like most people believe the official
| narrative and dismiss conspiracy theories as "crazy".
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > Nowadays
|
| This makes sense to me, because after all this time if we don't
| have anything which backs up the conspiracy theories it is
| sensible to believe that the results of the official
| investigation are largely accurate.
| jjackson5324 wrote:
| The House Select Committee on Assassinations was established
| to investigate the assassinations of JFK and MLK.
|
| After their investigation, they concluded that the official
| narrative was most likely wrong and they found a high
| probability that two gunmen fired at President John F.
| Kennedy.
|
| There were no investigations after that..
|
| > Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high
| probability that two gunmen fired at President John F.
| Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the
| possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific
| evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.
|
| > The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence
| available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably
| assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee is
| unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the
| conspiracy.
|
| https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-
| repor...
| l3mure wrote:
| For me the real kicker from the HSCA is George Joannides:
|
| > At the HSCA, Joannides had been specifically assigned to
| handle queries about the DRE and its relations with the
| CIA. The Agency had assured the committee that he had no
| connection whatsoever to the matters under investigation;
| that, in fact, he was merely an Agency lawyer and had not
| been "operational" in 1963. These assurances were self-
| evidently false. At one point, Joannides informed the
| committee that the identity of the DRE's case officer at
| the time of the Kennedy assassination -- Joannides himself
| -- could not be determined.
|
| https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/jfk-assassination-
| do...
| pvg wrote:
| The House Select committee didn't do a very good job and
| did not have access to accurate information. There has
| been, of course, plenty of investigating done on the
| assassination since then. A well-known overview is Gerald
| Posner's _Case Closed_ , it goes over the deficiencies of
| that and many other assassination theories with a fine-
| toothed comb.
| woodruffw wrote:
| > Nowadays (when most Americans have just read about it in
| history textbooks), it feels like most people believe the
| official narrative and dismiss conspiracy theories as "crazy".
|
| A significant confounding factor here is the encompassing and
| totalizing nature of modern conspiracy theories: there's a
| substantial difference in breadth, depth, and assumed priors
| between a JFK assassination conspiracy (painted against the
| backdrop of 1960s social and political upheaval) and something
| like QAnon.
|
| Put another way: American culture is prone to conspiratorial
| beliefs, but isn't (yet) prone to Big Lies.
| LtWorf wrote:
| Well I'm quite convinced that the crazy conspiracy theories are
| there to dismiss all of them in block. And of course some
| conspiracies ARE real.
| Hikikomori wrote:
| https://youtu.be/5u7euN1HTuU?si=G3HXkWKL3KeGJKQR
|
| Worth a watch if you are interested in this. He reconstructs the
| physical space and where the people were and moved over time
| using witness testimony.
| dang wrote:
| Camus died in 1960. That title is making its comma work a little
| too hard!
| pvg wrote:
| That comma went to Oxford, it can handle it.
| hackandthink wrote:
| "Despite gathering years of NSA-worthy surveillance on the
| philosophers, Hoover's agents were never able to discern the
| ideological program of the French. "I can't work out," wrote one
| in a note in Sartre's file, "if he's pro-Communist or anti-
| Communist."
|
| I feel the same.
|
| Levy often seems to be a manichean ideologue, but I found his
| Sartre book revealing:
|
| "Levy depicts Sartre as a man who could succumb to the twentieth
| century's catastrophic attraction to violence and the false
| messianism of its total political solutions, while also being one
| of the fiercest critics of its illusions and shortcomings."
|
| https://bernard-henri-levy.com/en/book/sartre/
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