[HN Gopher] Fungi survives outside international space station
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Fungi survives outside international space station
Author : chuckhend
Score : 148 points
Date : 2024-01-28 19:17 UTC (3 hours ago)
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| kleiba wrote:
| Unsurprisingly - I've seen similar stuff many times in various
| sci-fi horror movies.
| axxl wrote:
| Someone's going to make this comment when time travel is
| invented.
| kleiba wrote:
| Oh, it has been invented already. I specifically came back in
| time to make the above comment...
| aspenmayer wrote:
| We're all living in John Titor's world.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor
| datadeft wrote:
| Our current understanding it that you can only travel
| forward in time. Could you explain how to do it backward?
| johnchristopher wrote:
| Reminds me of Warren Ellis Super god comics:
| https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a8/9c/a5/a89ca5a914ff4574548862af4...
| lawlessone wrote:
| I recall in one of the Asimovs Foundation books there was a
| fungus like substance that forced the crew to fly close to a
| star to kill it off.
| marcellus23 wrote:
| That doesn't sound like Foundation to me. Are you sure it was
| from that series?
| anonymouskimmer wrote:
| Yes, it was. Not the original series though. It's in
| _Foundation and Earth_ : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foun
| dation_and_Earth#Part_V:_M...
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| see also
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichen#Ecological_interactions
| MicolashKyoka wrote:
| if a protomolecule ever comes to be, it's going to be some sort
| of fungi-based lifeform.
| belter wrote:
| Tell me about it ....
| plonk wrote:
| Is that an Expanse reference or does the word mean something
| else in biology?
| andrewflnr wrote:
| It definitely doesn't mean anything in real science.
| lawlessone wrote:
| I've heard on panspermia in relation to Earth.
|
| But what are the odds an asteroid hitting Earth has already
| seeded life elsewhere in the solar system?
| hnarn wrote:
| Reminds me of a really interesting video Kurzgesagt posted
| recently: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JOiGEI9pQBs
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| The habitable epoch, when "the cosmic microwave background
| (CMB) had a temperature of 273-373 K (0-100 degC), allowing
| early rocky planets (if any existed) to have liquid water
| chemistry on their surface and be habitable, irrespective of
| their distance from a star," has always fascinated me [1].
| Space itself was room temperature.
|
| Our universe would seem to them like the universe on the
| verge of heat death does to us. To my knowledge, I don't know
| of any fiction that explores this setting--it's on my bucket
| list to write.
|
| [1] https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/~loeb/habitable.pdf
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| Why does an asteroid have to hit the earth? Life is constantly
| being shed from the upper atmosphere into space right now. As
| we travel through space we leave a plume of life behind us.
| Certainly almost none of it survives, but almost isn't none,
| and a lot of life spreads as hardened spores that can withstand
| extreme conditions until more favorable conditions present and
| they "wake up."
| crazygringo wrote:
| > _Life is constantly being shed from the upper atmosphere
| into space right now. As we travel through space we leave a
| plume of life behind us._
|
| Can you point to any source for that? I've never heard of
| such a thing and can't find anything from a quick online
| search supporting that idea. Everything I read is that
| gravity will pull back any bacteria that get to the outer
| edges of the atmosphere, which makes sense because they'd
| need to have some force stronger than gravity to escape.
|
| What information can you point to that supports the idea that
| we leave a "plume of life behind us"?
|
| I think the idea behind an asteroid is that only something
| with that level of force could eject bacteria that could
| overcome the Earth's gravity to escape.
|
| Edit: atmospheric escape [1] is a well-known phenomenon, but
| that's exclusively about gases, at the molecular level. It
| doesn't mention anything about bacteria, which are of course
| massive in comparison -- the factors that can cause a single
| atom or molecule to gain enough energy to escape gravity
| don't apply to things the size of bacteria.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_escape
| londons_explore wrote:
| I suspect the conclusion here depends entirely on upper
| atmosphere winds which I don't think are well studied.
| lupire wrote:
| Upper atmosphere winds are well within the Earth's
| gravity well.
|
| Relative to the center of the Earth (average gravity) ,
| the atmosphere ends approximately at sea level.
|
| Small particles aren't escaping based on their own
| velocity from random collisions. Maybe from
| interplanetary scraft like Voyager.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _that 's exclusively about gases, at the molecular level_
|
| Impact erosion seems like it would have enough energy to
| eject microbes from the atmosphere given the amount of life
| in the troposphere [1].
|
| [1] https://nautil.us/the-surprising-importance-of-
| stratospheric...
| londons_explore wrote:
| The chance of a particle escaping depends on its mass.
|
| That's why helium escapes pretty fast. The other gas
| molecules still escape, but far far slower. The Maxwell
| Boltzmann distribution applies.
|
| Something like a virus is far far heavier again, so the
| rate of escape would be miniscule. Not sure if it's small
| enough to have never happened across the surface of earth
| though.
| bongodongobob wrote:
| Nonsense. How are microbes exceeding Earth's escape velocity?
| cncovyvysi wrote:
| Solar wind? (Genuine question)
| explorigin wrote:
| Astronomically low. (I'll see myself out.)
| adolph wrote:
| _One of the main ideas explained in this video is that the very
| early universe (i.e. the universe "right after the Big Bang" in
| cosmic timescales) might have been habitable for a short period
| of time. During this time window, the right temperature to
| support life wouldn't have been restricted to the proximity of
| stars, but would have instead taken place absolutely everywhere
| in space due to the intrinsic temperature of the universe
| itself._
|
| https://sites.google.com/view/sources-big-bang-life/
|
| https://youtu.be/JOiGEI9pQBs?si=kOHM_l0saPkEhWcX
| anonymouskimmer wrote:
| > The second one is an observation about the rate at which
| the different genomes on Earth have changed over evolutionary
| history. When extrapolated back into the past, this evolution
| rate of genomes suggests that the current lineage of life on
| Earth might be at least 10 billion years old,
|
| I wonder to what extent the scientists who study these
| evolutionary clocks are able to factor in increasingly (or
| decreasingly) capable DNA replication and repair mechanisms.
| More faithful DNA replication and repair would artificially
| show a slower rate of genome evolution.
| adolph wrote:
| It sometimes sounds the state of the art is headed there,
| see Cronin et al regarding "Assembly theory explains and
| quantifies selection and evolution"
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06600-9
| nkrisc wrote:
| We often think about life arising in one location and then
| spreading across the galaxy or universe. Quite interesting to
| consider instead life arising _everywhere_ and then being
| reduced to only a few (maybe one) remaining pockets across
| the entire universe, or not at all.
|
| Of course that likely doesn't apply to life as we know it,
| assuming our estimates of the age of the sun and the universe
| are correct.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| My understanding is the time when the universe was at life
| supporting temperatures, was long before the formation of the
| first stars and fusion of heavier atoms than hydrogen.
|
| It is hard to imagine life without a large variety of atoms.
| resolutebat wrote:
| Terence McKenna's theory was that human intelligence stems from
| psilocybin-containing mushroom spores hitching a ride on
| asteroids.
|
| Then again, he also wrote a lot about the self-transforming
| machine elves he met while stoned out of his gourd on DMT.
| NoPicklez wrote:
| I'd believe both of those things
| downrightmike wrote:
| After the big bang, there was likely many millions of years
| where the universe was a comfortable temperature that would
| have allowed life to evolve there first. Which eventually
| cooled and died out until it met the right conditions. Probably
| why space smells like burnt food "Other astronauts have
| described it in similar yet varying ways: "burning metal," "a
| distinct odor of ozone, an acrid smell," "walnuts and brake
| pads," "gunpowder" and even "burnt almond cookie." "
| https://science.howstuffworks.com/space-smell.htm#:~:text=Ot...
| candiodari wrote:
| "electrical smell", "burnt almond cookie" is the smell people
| who survived report HCN to have. And it's not that space is
| full of a lethal-on-touch gas, that's the smell your nerves
| report when the sensory cells are dying faster than they can
| pass on a chemical signal.
| dotancohen wrote:
| But during that time, the elements necessary for life as we
| know it did not yet exist.
| 867-5309 wrote:
| which time would that be?
| yanko wrote:
| There is controversial opinion that previous space station MIR
| was abandoned due to deadly fungi plague spread all over the
| station
| ceejayoz wrote:
| That's on the _inside_ , though. The ISS has to mitigate mold
| as well.
|
| https://newspaceeconomy.ca/2023/03/29/mold-in-space-the-hidd...
| has a picture of a wall panel covered in the stuff after
| astronauts hung damp workout clothes out to dry.
| Loughla wrote:
| That just makes sense. A sealed environment full of human
| would tend towards fungus.
| mackman wrote:
| While I'm sure space truffles are going to be overpriced I am
| excited to see those little pigs doing EVAs in their little piggy
| space helmets.
| stephenr wrote:
| Surely the helmet will prevent them from sniffing out the
| spruffles?
| woleium wrote:
| We just keep them around for the vibe, like the plastic twigs
| in date packets.
| stephenr wrote:
| The pigs or the helmets?
| mackman wrote:
| Obviously there's going to have to be some holes so they can
| smell.
| jupp0r wrote:
| Submission title is misleading (and not the article title). Fungi
| did not survive in space outside the ISS, but in a pressurized
| environment designed to be similar to the surface of Mars.
| throwaway8877 wrote:
| I wonder then how possible it is that some of the spores got
| settled in Mars and we have already contaminated Mars with
| Earth fungi.
| jupp0r wrote:
| The equipment that has been sent to Mars has been sterilized
| in cleanroom conditions. Interplanetary contamination is
| something that space agencies take super seriously.
| fluoridation wrote:
| Fungi have metabolisms similar to those of animals. They eat
| dead biomass, breathe oxygen, and drink water. Mars is a dead
| planet with a CO2-rich atmosphere and no liquid water. Even
| if a spore got transported there, it would not be able to
| germinate.
| quatrefoil wrote:
| I'm a bit perplexed about experiments like that. I get it why
| we did a lot of this in the early years of the Space Age to
| validate our assumptions about the hazards of outer space.
|
| Then, there was some scientific curiosity about how certain
| life forms, such as complex plants or insects, might adopt to
| near-zero gravity. This was a bit harder to justify in
| practical terms, but interesting and hard to replicate by other
| means.
|
| But what's the objective with this test? We can easily recreate
| similar conditions (pressure, temperature, illumination) here
| on Earth. So what have we learned to justify the cost? I'm not
| trolling, it's a sincere question.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| The one thing we can't replicate on Earth is low gravity.
| quatrefoil wrote:
| Sure, but there's no reason to suspect that low gravity
| does anything interesting to fungi, of all things; and
| there's ample evidence that it doesn't from previous
| experiments, intentional and not. Other comments cite
| instances of the crews dealing with mold on the ISS.
| jimmytucson wrote:
| It's my understanding that fungi eat dead organic matter. So what
| did these fungi eat and was it included in the "Mars-like"
| environment?
| gravelc wrote:
| Some fungi require dead organic matter for survival -
| necrotrophs. Many dont (e.g. yeast)
| wongarsu wrote:
| In the context of these experiments the fungi don't really have
| to do anything in this Mars-like environment, except surviving.
| Many fungi can do that quite well by going in a dormant state.
|
| If you want to take these results to extrapolate whether there
| could be living and "thriving" fungi on Mars right now: there
| are radiotrophic fungi that can extract energy from ionizing
| (and possibly non-ionizing) radiation. There could also be
| fungi capable of chemosynthesis, the production of sugar and
| amino acids using oxidation reactions as a fuel source.
| joshuamcginnis wrote:
| The fungi used were lichenous and affixed to mars-like and
| moon-like substrata, not unlike the stone-like environments
| they were originally sourced from in Antarctica.
| arisAlexis wrote:
| Can someone ELI5 the significance of this for non space scifi
| geeks ?
| SalmoShalazar wrote:
| Some fungi can survive the conditions of space, which is pretty
| incredible. I think that's basically it.
| jancsika wrote:
| > Some fungi can survive the conditions of space, which is
| pretty incredible.
|
| It is literally incredible, and the title is misleading.
|
| The fungi was in some kind of box that was filled with a lot
| of CO2, a little O2 and H2O, and other stuff to simulate the
| atmosphere on Mars.
|
| _That box_ was then placed outside the space station.
|
| It wouldn't survive if it was just growing in space, outside
| the space station. Believe me, I'm outside of it right now
| and it is _not_ going to be fun[1].
|
| 1: I'm about to start doing my taxes-- blecch-- here on
| Earth, which is technically outside of the space station.
| Sharlin wrote:
| If even some hardy Earth organisms can survive (the article
| doesn't say anything about it, but this was almost certainly
| survival in a dormant desiccated state rather than being
| metabolically active doing fungus things) Martian conditions,
| it slightly raises the odds that whatever microbial life Mars
| may have once hosted may still exist in protected, hard-to-
| reach spots - possibly hundreds of meters beneath the surface
| like a surprising amount of Earth life.
|
| It also slightly raises the odds that genetically modified
| fungi and lichen might be able to metabolize and grow on Mars
| at least if suitably protected, which may have implications on
| astronaut food and oxygen production as well as, much more
| speculatively, terraforming. Further, it has implications on
| planetary protection - the measures we take to avoid
| accidentally infesting other worlds with Earth life.
| joshuamcginnis wrote:
| Lichens found in extreme environments on Earth (rocks in
| Antarctica) were sent to space and exposed to the elements.
| Some survived.
| dotancohen wrote:
| ...and exposed to the lack of elements
| lgkk wrote:
| I would like to believe we were put here by a super advanced
| species so they could observe what we do for their entertainment
| and research purposes.
|
| Why else would people for example keep ant colonies in their home
| or grow kits?
|
| Hopefully we are not alone and they come back soon. I have many
| questions.
| brnt wrote:
| I don't think ants want their kid 'owner' to come back soon to
| see how they struggle when it floods the nest. For science.
| ithkuil wrote:
| Our ants may have many questions too but we don't seem to
| understand whether they even have questions and we may not even
| know how to start engaging with them to answer them. Surely
| they don't seem to respond to our level of intelligence, so we
| should adapt to their level in order to tell them something
| they can understand. But if we achieve that, will the ants
| really perceive us as a higher level of intelligence? We would
| clearly stumble our way to approximate a communication channel
| the best possible way with them and use the feedback to learn
| how to get better at communicating, but that may take a lot of
| effort on our side because we may always assume we "bottomed
| out" their intelligence level and that's pointless to continue
| probing.
|
| I now ask you to imagine an analogy with a species that is as
| smarter, bigger, more powerful and radically different from us
| as we are to ants.
| arcosdev wrote:
| The fungi of Yuggoth!
| davedx wrote:
| Misleading title
| lupire wrote:
| Flagged submitter's editorialized false title.
| crazygringo wrote:
| How do you flag a title?
|
| Flagging an article doesn't do anything about the title, but
| kills virtually all further discussion if it's no longer on the
| front page -- which doesn't seem desirable.
| ceeam wrote:
| The ISS is well within the Earth magnetic shield for starters.
| Almost no radiation, compared to real outer space.
| thejackgoode wrote:
| Is that why they sent Scott Kelly for a year up there and then
| compared him to his twin?
| pixelesque wrote:
| Note that while the cultures were _outside_ the Space Station,
| they were in containers simulating the conditions of Mars, so it
| doesn 't seem like they were in the vacuum of Space itself,
| unless I've missed something in the article?
| seabass-labrax wrote:
| I think you're right: the atmosphere inside the container was
| artificial and intended to be equivalent to the atmosphere on
| Mars, with natural light from the Sun allowed to pass into the
| container through filters which also emulated the conditions on
| Mars.
| dotancohen wrote:
| If I'm not mistaken Mars' atmospheric is pressure is less
| than 1% of the Earth's atmospheric pressure. That is a lot
| closer to a vacuum than it is to Earth conditions.
| hannasanarion wrote:
| more like 4%, but yeah.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Mars ' atmospheric is pressure is less than 1% of the
| Earth's atmospheric pressure_
|
| 0.0060 atm (0.6%), to be exact [1].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars
| oh_my_goodness wrote:
| "Survives" appears in the original title but ...
|
| "The most relevant outcome was that more than 60% of the cells of
| the endolithic communities studied remained intact after
| 'exposure to Mars', or rather, the stability of their cellular
| DNA was still high," highlights Rosa de la Torre Noetzel from
| Spain's National Institute of Aerospace Technology (INTA), co-
| researcher on the project.
| smusamashah wrote:
| Why does we go through so much trouble to not let mars etc get
| polluted by life from earth, why don't we just send a bug chunk
| of hardcore life forms like this fungi and others on the red
| planet etc and go back later to see how they are fairing?
|
| What are we trying to find or learn that life from earth will
| permanently remove the chance of?
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