[HN Gopher] Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Care...
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       Stack Overflow: 79% of Developers Considering a Career Move
        
       Author : bytearray
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2024-01-28 19:13 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blobstreaming.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blobstreaming.org)
        
       | billy99k wrote:
       | This tells you something: It's shitty everywhere and moving
       | employers will most likely just get you a new set of problems.
        
         | blisterpeanuts wrote:
         | In today's climate, I would advise people not to change jobs
         | unless it's an outstanding opportunity.
        
           | x86x87 wrote:
           | No. This is backwards. Peoplw should change jobs and should
           | optimize for better working conditions and fair treatment.
           | Super talented people should do it right now. The time for
           | loyalty is over!
           | 
           | The corpos will never change their ways unless they are
           | literally bleeding talent and money.
        
             | billy99k wrote:
             | "Peoplw should change jobs and should optimize for better
             | working conditions and fair treatment"
             | 
             | I get that we need this, but now is not the time to do it.
             | It's an employers market and when you leave your current
             | job, there will be 100+ applicants waiting to replace you
             | and you will have just as much competition finding your
             | next job.
        
               | x86x87 wrote:
               | You find your next job and after that you move. Yes, it's
               | tough, but the whole RTO debacle allowed corpos to show
               | their true colors.
        
               | hypothesis wrote:
               | What makes you think that employers are not looking to
               | replace everyone right now? It would make sense to me if
               | there are 100x replacement queue, presumably desperate to
               | accept lower pay, right now. All the more reasons to make
               | a move if you can.
        
               | mvdtnz wrote:
               | In my experience, if you have a decent tenure in an
               | organisation where institutional knowledge trumps
               | documentation (a dysfunction, but a common one) then
               | you're not likely to be forced out and replaced with
               | someone cheaper. That institutional knowledge has value.
               | 
               | > All the more reasons to make a move if you can.
               | 
               | So that you too can be one of the job seekers "desperate
               | to accept lower pay, right now"?
        
               | billy99k wrote:
               | ok, make your move. Reddit is filled with people that
               | thought this way and are now have been unemployed with no
               | job in site or were forced to take a job at reduced pay.
               | 
               | Like waiting in the stock market, I would make my move
               | when it's an employees market. This way, you actually
               | have some negotiating power.
        
             | nightowl_games wrote:
             | Having low seniority in a company makes you more likely to
             | be laid off if layoffs happen.
             | 
             | Source: I switched jobs at the end of 2019, got a 30% pay
             | bump, then got laid off 3 months later.
        
               | photonbeam wrote:
               | Not necessarily, a longer tenure person can easily get
               | put on the list just by being mildly disliked by the
               | person writing the list.
        
               | nightowl_games wrote:
               | Youre right, being highly disagreeable has its downsides.
        
       | Ancalagon wrote:
       | Well duh. It's shitty everywhere. Might as well keep my options
       | open and do shitty work for more pay at the next place.
        
       | blisterpeanuts wrote:
       | I'm just one data point, but after quitting a 12-year position
       | writing RFID related apps, I'm raising chickens and writing.
       | 
       | There are no jobs for me; even for positions that totally align
       | with my skills, the employers express no interest. For one thing,
       | they get hundreds of applicants per posting. For another, DEI.
       | 
       | One nice thing--my old employer is hiring me back on a consulting
       | basis. Meanwhile, I'm retraining and looking into side hustles,
       | AI-related opportunities, manufacturing (a lifelong interest).
       | 
       | Technology as a career is not dead, but it has significantly
       | downsized and is no longer a guaranteed job.
        
         | pylua wrote:
         | I could see a future where people switch to other white collar
         | jobs like accounting, law, and engineering. Software skills
         | will come in handy here.
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | _> For another, DEI._
         | 
         | What is DEI?
        
           | theshackleford wrote:
           | The boogeyman they can conveniently blame for all their
           | problems.
        
             | ReptileMan wrote:
             | Well ... people start to learn the ropes of crybulling. A
             | lot of people exploit for decades racism as "The boogeyman
             | they can conveniently blame for all their problems." So it
             | is not unusual for others to join the party of being
             | victims as well.
        
           | mvdtnz wrote:
           | Diversity, equity and inclusion. In extreme cases, this is
           | affirmative action. Hopefully in most cases it means hiring
           | managers keeping an open mind and checking their biases when
           | comparing candidates of differing genders and cultural
           | backgrounds.
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | Is this that US thing I heard about where women and
             | minorities of color get hiring priority over white men?
        
         | g00gler wrote:
         | > There are no jobs for me; even for positions that totally
         | align with my skills, the employers express no interest.
         | 
         | I often wonder who they have working there and applying that is
         | so much better than me they won't grant me an interview. I've
         | always been a top performer so it's really quite puzzling.
        
           | swagasaurus-rex wrote:
           | Many positions are not actively hiring. I've been applying on
           | linkedin and the same positions are reposted weekly for
           | months on end, never getting taken down and never getting
           | replies.
           | 
           | They're cluttering up job boards because so few roles are
           | available.
        
           | timeagain wrote:
           | Top performers are divas. Much better to have an average
           | youngster who can be more readily abused.
        
       | happytiger wrote:
       | This seems more like a social commentary about job satisfaction
       | for the career at almost 80%, but I suspect the pattern of
       | movement that the "only way to get a significant salary upgrade
       | is to switch jobs" is the secret pressure. There are a LOT of
       | disincentives to moving right now, especially with coast housing
       | stock being at record cost _and_ such low levels. Add to the fact
       | that employers seem to be having a great time laying everyone
       | off, and you have a powder keg for dissatisfaction.
        
         | twojobsoneboss wrote:
         | Even if you can find a sw Eng job, salaries have dropped to
         | ~2019-2020 levels
         | 
         | Factor in inflation since then and it's a huge effective pay
         | drop
        
       | beer_backwards wrote:
       | my two cents (from personal experience): Getting money when you
       | are from low SES is not that stimulating, because the money is
       | inevitably spent on mundane purchases: i.e. buying a new pair of
       | school shoes or school supplies, or beef instead of chicken for a
       | meal that week, or fixing your car.
       | 
       | If that money would be able to be spent on anything that the
       | child desired, then I am sure that even a lower-SES would be more
       | excited.
       | 
       | I fundamentally believe that the higher-SES you are, the more
       | agency you have (especially financial), where lower-SES are in
       | constant survival mode. It is hard to get excited by small sums
       | of money when you know that it will just be immediately spent on
       | boring things.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-28 23:01 UTC)