[HN Gopher] In case you missed it: America got much bigger conti...
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In case you missed it: America got much bigger continental shelf
Author : TaurenHunter
Score : 46 points
Date : 2024-01-28 15:49 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (bigthink.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (bigthink.com)
| s1gnp0st wrote:
| There must be oil.
| lizhang wrote:
| Yes - almost 10 billion barrels:
| https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/sir20125146
| adventured wrote:
| US strategic military positioning is approximately a trillion
| times more important than a few billion barrels of oil.
|
| If you had 10 billion barrels of oil, at $80, and you manage to
| extract 3/4 of it over 30-40 years. Maybe you get a net $5-$10
| billion per year economic benefit from that if you're lucky as
| the US. The US military budget is $800 billion every single
| year. The US isn't doing this for oil, it's about positioning
| vs other world powers.
|
| Military projection, global strategic positioning, always
| trumps something like oil (especially when the US has plenty of
| that resource).
|
| The US went into Iraq because of Russia, not because of oil.
| That was a Pentagon program to try to strip Russian influence
| out of the Middle East, stated directly by four star general
| Wesley Clark.
|
| The US went into Syria because of Russia, not because of oil.
| The US is still in Syria because of Russia, not oil.
|
| Most (not all) of what the US does in the Middle East is a
| power conflict with Russia.
|
| Most of what the US now does in Asia is a power conflict with
| China.
|
| Oil is a little toy chip on the table compared to the real
| stakes.
| mrangle wrote:
| While I would agree that Russia was an aspect of the
| motivation for those incursions, I disagree that it is the
| total explanation. Russia is an aspect of a larger picture.
| After all, we don't go to war with Nations simply because
| they exist or are influential anywhere. There's a larger
| picture, just as the war in Ukraine is part of a larger
| picture than "freedom" or any other such condescending
| explanation.
|
| The mainly-Russia explanation is also too convenient on a
| number of counts. First, in this current era of anti-Russian
| sentiment, it offers the large number of people that were
| responsible for the widely panned Iraq invasion an "out" that
| is, just now, socially acceptable.
|
| These are people that are still neurotic about their
| attachment to the accepted situation that the predicate for
| the invasion was a lie. A neuroticism that is evident for
| anyone paying attention to what they still write with some
| consistency.
|
| All national strength and well-being has an economic basis.
| Especially military projection. One can't separate our
| percieved interest in "getting Russia out of the Middle
| East", or some such, from economic interest. Or at least from
| economic calculus. Anyone attempting to sell such a tale
| should be suspect (not you, necessarily).
|
| There are other massive red flags that indicate what the Iraq
| invasion was about, in terms of a larger picture. These stare
| in the face anyone willing to look, as they hide in plain
| sight. At the same time, at least one is inclusive of both
| the Russia and oil angles. I won't talk about that one. Look
| harder. Reinterpret crucial data for that era in a different
| manner from what we are widely told its nature was (and is).
| Its actual nature is sensible. What we are told about it is
| not.
|
| The other motivation is military positioning, but has a scope
| that is well beyond Russia and China.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| A hint or two would be fetching.
| throwaway8877 wrote:
| This "anti Russian sentiment" is nothing new. It's what is
| called political realism. It has always existed in Eastern
| Europe as they were more clear eyed when it comes to
| Russia. It has been also clearly present in US but the
| official rhetoric has been more soporific toward Russia.
| But it doesn't make sense to pretend anymore when Russia
| has opened its cards wide to everyone to see.
| dralley wrote:
| >The mainly-Russia explanation is also too convenient on a
| number of counts. First, in this current era of anti-
| Russian sentiment, it offers the large number of people
| that were responsible for the widely panned Iraq invasion
| an "out" that is, just now, socially acceptable.
|
| To be fair to them, the video they're referring to with
| Wesley Clark is from 15-ish years ago.
| CharlesW wrote:
| Actual title: "In case you missed it: America just effectively
| got much bigger"
|
| This is the result of a 20-year data-collecting project to
| measure the U.S.'s extended continental shelf (ECS), conducted by
| NOAA.
| wronglebowski wrote:
| What is this page doing with the "back" behavior? Is this the
| "back" redirection I've heard about? I get a blank white page
| with four "recommended" lines.
|
| The Psychological Effects of Pornography Why You Shouldn't
| Compromise on Sex How internet porn is changing the way men and
| women are having sex How Women's Brains React to Pornography
|
| The new ways modern web pages find to be shitty is impressive.
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| I couldn't repro this... "back" worked normally
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Same. Firefox w/uBlock Origin.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| I got the same thing
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| "Even though it is a non-party to UNCLOS, the U.S. has stated its
| claim within the internationally agreed framework of that
| Convention. That means any disputes are likely to be settled
| according to the Law of the Sea as agreed by most United Nations
| member states."
| INTPenis wrote:
| But what do countries do when they share a continental shelf with
| other countries? It seems like this only applies to countries
| that are very large.
|
| And also they're basically claiming land right outside Russia at
| a time when tensions between the US and Russia are at an all time
| high in 40 years. Based on something they and their allies in the
| UN signed back in 1982.
|
| Maybe I'm reading this wrong but I see no indication that Russia
| signed.[1]
|
| Not trying to claim anything politically, just random thoughts on
| this article from an IT person who is not well versed in any
| politics.
|
| 1.
| https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetailsIII.aspx?src=TREATY...
| goosedragons wrote:
| U.S. didn't sign UNCLOS either. The claim here also overlaps
| with the Canadian claim [0].
|
| [0]
| https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/full/10.1139/cjes-2022-0069#se...
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| >Maybe I'm reading this wrong but I see no indication that
| Russia signed.[1]
|
| If you search on the page you linked, the Russian Federation
| signed it on March 12, 1997. As the other commenter notes, the
| US hasn't signed it.
| l3mure wrote:
| The Northern Sea Route has been contested for decades:
|
| https://warontherocks.com/2023/10/getting-sporty-in-russias-...
|
| The US is also upset that Russia had been making its own Arctic
| ECS claims through proper legal channels:
|
| > Russia has cleared the scientific burden of proof required to
| have its extended continental shelf claim legitimized. Decades
| of scientific research, Arctic missions, and information
| exchanges with Denmark and Canada have resulted in the U.N.
| Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf dubbing the
| majority of Moscow's claim to an extended Arctic continental
| shelf to be "valid."
|
| https://warontherocks.com/2023/05/russias-gains-in-the-great...
| INTPenis wrote:
| Wow there's so much I have no idea of.
|
| I just watched the video from the Guardian about Russia
| claming their own territory based on ECS.
|
| If both Russia and the US intend to exploit these resources,
| while the public make the switch to more renewable sources of
| energy, then this is clearly intended for military use
| primarily.
|
| I remember reading somewhere that the DoD collectively is the
| largest producer of pollution in the world.
| culi wrote:
| Basically the US used data to enlarge its ECS by two Californias.
| Most importantly in the arctic near Alaska.
|
| > Although not a signatory to the convention itself, the U.S.
| recognizes UNCLOS as the basis for international maritime law and
| in 1983 declared its own 200-mile EEZ. America's EEZ was the
| largest in the world
|
| This is gonna matter a lot now that countries are starting to
| explore mining the seabeds for minerals
| netsharc wrote:
| A Guardian video about Russia and its military build-up on the
| Arctic coastline https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZOWbWuMKDI
| cpursley wrote:
| On _its_ arctic coastline.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| This would make a good trivia question.
|
| "In 2023, which country used the Mariana Islands to infringe on
| territory claimed by Japan? A) China B) Russia C) The United
| Statea of America or D) Taiwan"
| aragonite wrote:
| I can't imagine Japan being too happy about it
| (https://www.ejiltalk.org/extended-continental-shelf-of-
| the-u...):
|
| > The Executive Summary makes clear that both Canada and The
| Bahamas have indicated they would not object to the CLCS
| considering the U.S. submission, but it does not mention any
| explicit assurance from Japan.
|
| Indeed Japan is conspicuously left out
| (https://www.state.gov/wp-
| content/uploads/2023/12/ECS_Executi...)
|
| > ... Canada has advised the United States that it would not
| object to the consideration of a U.S. submission by the
| Commission, without prejudice both to the delineation of the
| outer limits of its own continental shelf and to the matters
| relating to the delimitation of boundaries in this region
| between the United States and Canada. The Bahamas has similarly
| advised the United States that it would not object to the
| consideration of a U.S. submission by the Commission, without
| prejudice both to the delineation of the outer limits of its
| own continental shelf and to the matters relating to the
| delimitation of boundaries in this region between the United
| States and The Bahamas.
| c_o_n_v_e_x wrote:
| Interesting timing with the recent news of Putin and the sale of
| Alaska.
|
| https://thehill.com/policy/international/4423913-state-dept-...
| pjio wrote:
| til: 1/2 Egypt = 1 California
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(page generated 2024-01-28 23:01 UTC)