[HN Gopher] Bartkira: The Simpsons and Akira
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       Bartkira: The Simpsons and Akira
        
       Author : tetris11
       Score  : 203 points
       Date   : 2024-01-28 12:33 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bartkira.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bartkira.com)
        
       | mysterypie wrote:
       | I don't understand the extreme amount of work that people put
       | into works like this that could be shut down forever at the whim
       | of the copyright holder.
       | 
       | "There is ongoing debate about to what extent fan fiction is
       | permitted under contemporary copyright law. Some argue that fan
       | fiction does not fall under fair use, as it is derivative work.
       | The 2009 ruling by United States District Court permanently
       | prohibiting publication in the United States of a book may be
       | seen as upholding this position." [1]
       | 
       | Unless we can greatly reduce the length of copyright terms and/or
       | clarify that fan fiction is allowed, you might as well create
       | only original works so your months or years of work doesn't go to
       | waste.
       | 
       | Update: From the link another HN user found, it says, "The
       | Bartkira organizers knew that Matt Groening had seen a copy but
       | to date have never received a cease and desist order. As an extra
       | defense, Harvey decided to donate all of the book's profits to
       | charity [including] Save the Children, a charity preferred by the
       | late The Simpsons co-creator Sam Simon."
       | 
       | So the creators are walking on eggshells, making sure they don't
       | earn a cent and hoping the copyright holders don't sue one day.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction#Legality
        
         | prepend wrote:
         | People like things and get interested in things.
         | 
         | I found a good exercise in learning passions and values is
         | asking "what would you do if you knew you would fail?"
         | 
         | So it helps learn what is really important and what you like if
         | you knew that you would need to destroy it afterwards.
        
         | golf_mike wrote:
         | Sometimes it is the doing that matters, not what was done.
        
         | CM30 wrote:
         | People have interests/things they like and want to show
         | appreciation for. Hence fan fiction, fan videos, games, mods
         | and hacks, reanimated videos, animations, etc.
         | 
         | Also it's worth noting that despite the memes online, the vast,
         | vast majority of fan works are left alone and survive online
         | for decades. The chance of a fan project actually going to
         | waste is incredibly low, since a decent percentage of creators
         | either like, support or don't care about fan projects based on
         | their works, and even those that dislike them or try to shut
         | them down only do so a minority of the time.
         | 
         | It just sometimes doesn't appear to be the case because 'fan
         | project in development for 10 years shut down by [large
         | company]' is an easy to write/attention grabbing news story, in
         | the same way 'plane explodes in mid air, no survivors found' is
         | for the mainstream media (with similar effects on people's
         | perception of plane safety vs car/train/whatever safety).
        
         | hnlmorg wrote:
         | Sometimes just the act of creating art is what's important.
         | 
         | A great example of this is Sand Mandala
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_mandala
         | 
         | Much as the hoarder inside me wishes we could preserve
         | everything, I'm grateful that we can enjoy these temporary
         | works even if they do just become fleeting experiences.
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | Because they don't see it as work, but a hobby.
        
         | famahar wrote:
         | It's posted on the internet. Someone will always have a copy.
         | It will always exist. And if it doesn't exist online, it will
         | exist offline for people to look at away from the eyes of angry
         | copyright holders. Art is eternal.
        
           | magic_hamster wrote:
           | Art might be eternal* but your access is not eternal.
           | 
           | [*] also not eternal.
        
             | 082349872349872 wrote:
             | cf samizdat
        
         | josu wrote:
         | I don't see it that different from working on open source
         | software. I'm talking about what drives the creators, not the
         | legality of it.
        
         | hajile wrote:
         | Without examples of why these laws are bad, they'll just
         | continue to exist.
         | 
         | > To _promote the Progress_ of Science and useful Arts, by
         | securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the
         | exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries
         | 
         | The current copyright not only does NOTHING to progress science
         | and the arts, it actively STIFLES innovation.
         | 
         | We need to move back to 10 years of copyright with an optional
         | 10 year extension.
        
         | cmiles74 wrote:
         | Clearly this isn't the case here, but even having the work
         | available for a short time might achieve the creator's goals.
         | I'm thinking of Dudesy and their "AI" George Carlin impression.
         | It certainly generated a lot of press for the podcast.
         | 
         | https://arstechnica.com/ai/2024/01/george-carlins-heirs-sue-...
         | 
         | As someone else pointed out, since it was posted on the
         | internet it will be available somewhere forever.
         | 
         | https://archive.org/details/george-carlin-im-glad-im-dead
        
         | deebosong wrote:
         | Because it's awesome and fun to do. And rare copies will exist
         | for a select few to share to select parties who would
         | absolutely love to experience the contraband underground work.
        
         | egypturnash wrote:
         | Practice and exposure. Having fun with your friends.
         | 
         | If you look at the spreadsheet at
         | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tn3PNewzF4t2nT9etXeq...
         | then you'll notice that there's about four hundred people
         | involved, most of whom did a mere two pages. That's really not
         | a ton of work for any one artist.
         | 
         | If you go to a comics convention you will find a _ton_ of stuff
         | along these lines, at a smaller scale - here 's two or three
         | things you like, put together in a funny way, maybe you'll buy
         | that, maybe that'll draw you in to a person's table to look at
         | their original work and become a new fan of theirs. Batman but
         | it's Adventure Time? A DeLorean driving out of the TARDIS?
         | Portal but it's the Muppets? Whatever.
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | >I don't understand the extreme amount of work that people put
         | into works like this that could be shut down forever at the
         | whim of the copyright holder.
         | 
         | Fun, passion, love, creativity, curiosity, so on and so forth.
        
         | Andrex wrote:
         | Don't look at it as wasted effort, look at it as practice for
         | later.
         | 
         | Applies to both fan fiction and animated fan works like
         | Bartkira. The work is not the end for the author.
        
       | tetris11 wrote:
       | The full list of artists can be found in this doc:
       | 
       | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tn3PNewzF4t2nT9etXeq...
       | 
       | It would have been nice if they had David Lapham in there, but
       | you can't have everything in life
        
       | wavemode wrote:
       | The "FAQ" page doesn't seem to be loading for me so I was
       | terribly confused.
       | 
       | This article actually does a great job explaining the whole story
       | behind the project (and its status re: legality/copyright):
       | https://www.engadget.com/2017-09-01-bartkira-volume-6-simpso...
        
         | wavemode wrote:
         | The short answer seems to be "it's complicated"
         | 
         | > The team needed to tread carefully. Harvey knew that Otomo
         | and his son, Shohei Otomo, were fans of Bartkira, and for a
         | while Shohei was interested in getting involved with the
         | project. James Stacey, a friend of Harvey and the owner of
         | Tokyo, Japan-based comic publisher Black Hook Press, had been
         | in touch with Kodansha, the company behind Young Magazine.
         | Eventually, he received a letter that said Kodansha would never
         | be able to endorse the project but was aware of its existence.
         | A Bartkira book could be printed but never with the pages in
         | sequential order, because this would create a direct competitor
         | to Akira and give readers another, potentially cheaper way to
         | consume Otomo's story.
         | 
         | > "Which was, I feel, forward-thinking of them," Harvey says.
         | 
         | > It was a similar situation with Matt Groening. The Bartkira
         | organizers knew that he had seen a copy but to date have never
         | received a cease and desist order. As an extra defense, Harvey
         | decided to donate all of the book's profits to charity. Some
         | went to the OISCA Coastal Forest Restoration Project in Japan's
         | Miyagi Prefecture, where Otomo grew up. The rest went to Save
         | the Children, a charity preferred by the late The Simpsons co-
         | creator Sam Simon.
        
           | deebosong wrote:
           | Never knew about these crucial behind-the-scenes talks.
           | Really interesting to know. Thank you!
        
       | toyg wrote:
       | Very nice. Pretty much anything can be mapped over the Simpsons
       | cast, simply because it's so big; but the Bart-Milhouse dynamic
       | looks like a really good fit for Kaneda-Tetsuo. And the trailer
       | is gorgeous - I particularly liked how it arcs back to the
       | underground look of the very first seasons.
        
       | Solvency wrote:
       | The work involved is awe-inspiring but WHY -- with this much
       | effort something wholly new and original and most importantly....
       | SAFE from copyright lawyers could have been put into the
       | universe.
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | Sometimes "true" wholly original creativity can only blossom
         | after people cut their teeth by experimenting with fanworks.
         | Few people truly start with their magnum opus.
         | 
         | It's also the case that most successful mass market "original"
         | works are thoroughly inspired by other work and exist as
         | careful synthesis of influences with bits of inspiration and
         | new ideas worked in.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | Yeah. Pretty much any writer, painter, musician, or
           | performer, will gladly tell you that, when they started, they
           | were really doing something in the style of X as best as they
           | could. In some cases we even have proof (youthful
           | manuscripts, recorded schoolplays, early works). That's
           | effectively fanwork. It takes time to modulate one's original
           | contributions to any art.
        
         | fluoridation wrote:
         | Because it's funny.
        
       | everyone wrote:
       | Is there a downloadable version of this? Like a CBR file
       | somewhere, for if/when it gets taken down by copyright assholes?
       | 
       | (Also for when it's getting the hug of death as it now is.)
        
         | tetris11 wrote:
         | https://archive.org/details/bartkira/Bartkira%20v01%20%28201...
        
       | Dwedit wrote:
       | Saw name, expected that character who cut the blowfish for Homer.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | Interestingly, the art styles of the artists are mostly against
       | the "rules" of The Simpsons cartoons.
       | 
       | Here is a popular example of these rules for reference;
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/k2s4lq/guide_fo... ;
       | there are more recent and more detailed ones.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-28 23:01 UTC)