[HN Gopher] Bartkira: The Simpsons and Akira
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Bartkira: The Simpsons and Akira
Author : tetris11
Score : 203 points
Date : 2024-01-28 12:33 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bartkira.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bartkira.com)
| mysterypie wrote:
| I don't understand the extreme amount of work that people put
| into works like this that could be shut down forever at the whim
| of the copyright holder.
|
| "There is ongoing debate about to what extent fan fiction is
| permitted under contemporary copyright law. Some argue that fan
| fiction does not fall under fair use, as it is derivative work.
| The 2009 ruling by United States District Court permanently
| prohibiting publication in the United States of a book may be
| seen as upholding this position." [1]
|
| Unless we can greatly reduce the length of copyright terms and/or
| clarify that fan fiction is allowed, you might as well create
| only original works so your months or years of work doesn't go to
| waste.
|
| Update: From the link another HN user found, it says, "The
| Bartkira organizers knew that Matt Groening had seen a copy but
| to date have never received a cease and desist order. As an extra
| defense, Harvey decided to donate all of the book's profits to
| charity [including] Save the Children, a charity preferred by the
| late The Simpsons co-creator Sam Simon."
|
| So the creators are walking on eggshells, making sure they don't
| earn a cent and hoping the copyright holders don't sue one day.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction#Legality
| prepend wrote:
| People like things and get interested in things.
|
| I found a good exercise in learning passions and values is
| asking "what would you do if you knew you would fail?"
|
| So it helps learn what is really important and what you like if
| you knew that you would need to destroy it afterwards.
| golf_mike wrote:
| Sometimes it is the doing that matters, not what was done.
| CM30 wrote:
| People have interests/things they like and want to show
| appreciation for. Hence fan fiction, fan videos, games, mods
| and hacks, reanimated videos, animations, etc.
|
| Also it's worth noting that despite the memes online, the vast,
| vast majority of fan works are left alone and survive online
| for decades. The chance of a fan project actually going to
| waste is incredibly low, since a decent percentage of creators
| either like, support or don't care about fan projects based on
| their works, and even those that dislike them or try to shut
| them down only do so a minority of the time.
|
| It just sometimes doesn't appear to be the case because 'fan
| project in development for 10 years shut down by [large
| company]' is an easy to write/attention grabbing news story, in
| the same way 'plane explodes in mid air, no survivors found' is
| for the mainstream media (with similar effects on people's
| perception of plane safety vs car/train/whatever safety).
| hnlmorg wrote:
| Sometimes just the act of creating art is what's important.
|
| A great example of this is Sand Mandala
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_mandala
|
| Much as the hoarder inside me wishes we could preserve
| everything, I'm grateful that we can enjoy these temporary
| works even if they do just become fleeting experiences.
| fullshark wrote:
| Because they don't see it as work, but a hobby.
| famahar wrote:
| It's posted on the internet. Someone will always have a copy.
| It will always exist. And if it doesn't exist online, it will
| exist offline for people to look at away from the eyes of angry
| copyright holders. Art is eternal.
| magic_hamster wrote:
| Art might be eternal* but your access is not eternal.
|
| [*] also not eternal.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| cf samizdat
| josu wrote:
| I don't see it that different from working on open source
| software. I'm talking about what drives the creators, not the
| legality of it.
| hajile wrote:
| Without examples of why these laws are bad, they'll just
| continue to exist.
|
| > To _promote the Progress_ of Science and useful Arts, by
| securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the
| exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries
|
| The current copyright not only does NOTHING to progress science
| and the arts, it actively STIFLES innovation.
|
| We need to move back to 10 years of copyright with an optional
| 10 year extension.
| cmiles74 wrote:
| Clearly this isn't the case here, but even having the work
| available for a short time might achieve the creator's goals.
| I'm thinking of Dudesy and their "AI" George Carlin impression.
| It certainly generated a lot of press for the podcast.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/ai/2024/01/george-carlins-heirs-sue-...
|
| As someone else pointed out, since it was posted on the
| internet it will be available somewhere forever.
|
| https://archive.org/details/george-carlin-im-glad-im-dead
| deebosong wrote:
| Because it's awesome and fun to do. And rare copies will exist
| for a select few to share to select parties who would
| absolutely love to experience the contraband underground work.
| egypturnash wrote:
| Practice and exposure. Having fun with your friends.
|
| If you look at the spreadsheet at
| https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tn3PNewzF4t2nT9etXeq...
| then you'll notice that there's about four hundred people
| involved, most of whom did a mere two pages. That's really not
| a ton of work for any one artist.
|
| If you go to a comics convention you will find a _ton_ of stuff
| along these lines, at a smaller scale - here 's two or three
| things you like, put together in a funny way, maybe you'll buy
| that, maybe that'll draw you in to a person's table to look at
| their original work and become a new fan of theirs. Batman but
| it's Adventure Time? A DeLorean driving out of the TARDIS?
| Portal but it's the Muppets? Whatever.
| jjulius wrote:
| >I don't understand the extreme amount of work that people put
| into works like this that could be shut down forever at the
| whim of the copyright holder.
|
| Fun, passion, love, creativity, curiosity, so on and so forth.
| Andrex wrote:
| Don't look at it as wasted effort, look at it as practice for
| later.
|
| Applies to both fan fiction and animated fan works like
| Bartkira. The work is not the end for the author.
| tetris11 wrote:
| The full list of artists can be found in this doc:
|
| https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tn3PNewzF4t2nT9etXeq...
|
| It would have been nice if they had David Lapham in there, but
| you can't have everything in life
| wavemode wrote:
| The "FAQ" page doesn't seem to be loading for me so I was
| terribly confused.
|
| This article actually does a great job explaining the whole story
| behind the project (and its status re: legality/copyright):
| https://www.engadget.com/2017-09-01-bartkira-volume-6-simpso...
| wavemode wrote:
| The short answer seems to be "it's complicated"
|
| > The team needed to tread carefully. Harvey knew that Otomo
| and his son, Shohei Otomo, were fans of Bartkira, and for a
| while Shohei was interested in getting involved with the
| project. James Stacey, a friend of Harvey and the owner of
| Tokyo, Japan-based comic publisher Black Hook Press, had been
| in touch with Kodansha, the company behind Young Magazine.
| Eventually, he received a letter that said Kodansha would never
| be able to endorse the project but was aware of its existence.
| A Bartkira book could be printed but never with the pages in
| sequential order, because this would create a direct competitor
| to Akira and give readers another, potentially cheaper way to
| consume Otomo's story.
|
| > "Which was, I feel, forward-thinking of them," Harvey says.
|
| > It was a similar situation with Matt Groening. The Bartkira
| organizers knew that he had seen a copy but to date have never
| received a cease and desist order. As an extra defense, Harvey
| decided to donate all of the book's profits to charity. Some
| went to the OISCA Coastal Forest Restoration Project in Japan's
| Miyagi Prefecture, where Otomo grew up. The rest went to Save
| the Children, a charity preferred by the late The Simpsons co-
| creator Sam Simon.
| deebosong wrote:
| Never knew about these crucial behind-the-scenes talks.
| Really interesting to know. Thank you!
| toyg wrote:
| Very nice. Pretty much anything can be mapped over the Simpsons
| cast, simply because it's so big; but the Bart-Milhouse dynamic
| looks like a really good fit for Kaneda-Tetsuo. And the trailer
| is gorgeous - I particularly liked how it arcs back to the
| underground look of the very first seasons.
| Solvency wrote:
| The work involved is awe-inspiring but WHY -- with this much
| effort something wholly new and original and most importantly....
| SAFE from copyright lawyers could have been put into the
| universe.
| kevingadd wrote:
| Sometimes "true" wholly original creativity can only blossom
| after people cut their teeth by experimenting with fanworks.
| Few people truly start with their magnum opus.
|
| It's also the case that most successful mass market "original"
| works are thoroughly inspired by other work and exist as
| careful synthesis of influences with bits of inspiration and
| new ideas worked in.
| toyg wrote:
| Yeah. Pretty much any writer, painter, musician, or
| performer, will gladly tell you that, when they started, they
| were really doing something in the style of X as best as they
| could. In some cases we even have proof (youthful
| manuscripts, recorded schoolplays, early works). That's
| effectively fanwork. It takes time to modulate one's original
| contributions to any art.
| fluoridation wrote:
| Because it's funny.
| everyone wrote:
| Is there a downloadable version of this? Like a CBR file
| somewhere, for if/when it gets taken down by copyright assholes?
|
| (Also for when it's getting the hug of death as it now is.)
| tetris11 wrote:
| https://archive.org/details/bartkira/Bartkira%20v01%20%28201...
| Dwedit wrote:
| Saw name, expected that character who cut the blowfish for Homer.
| thih9 wrote:
| Interestingly, the art styles of the artists are mostly against
| the "rules" of The Simpsons cartoons.
|
| Here is a popular example of these rules for reference;
| https://old.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/k2s4lq/guide_fo... ;
| there are more recent and more detailed ones.
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(page generated 2024-01-28 23:01 UTC)