[HN Gopher] Fossil is quitting smartwatches
___________________________________________________________________
Fossil is quitting smartwatches
Author : jmsflknr
Score : 153 points
Date : 2024-01-27 00:17 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| RattlesnakeJake wrote:
| Not that anything great came of it, but Fossil was doing the
| full-featured "smartwatch" thing long before anyone else:
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_Wrist_PDA
|
| My teenage self wanted one of these so badly, but my married self
| is glad I never had the opportunity to be seen wearing one.
| dmitrygr wrote:
| It was actually pretty cool. The limitations were manageable
| and playing gameboy games on your watch was pretty fun in class
| apantel wrote:
| Does that have Dopewars?
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| I had one! It was... functional, but limited. The tiny stylus
| that slotted into the strap was a good indication of its
| problems.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Love it, back when tech served the user (poorly) instead of
| corporations first.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| You can always wear one now that you're locked down anyway
| stonecharioteer wrote:
| I own a Fossil Hybrid Smartwatch. It's a near device, scratches
| both my itches for a good looking watch and a vibrating motor.
|
| That is until I got the Casio G-Shock GD350. I can't hear the
| alarm of most watches when I sleep, so I needed a watch that
| vibrates. I also swim so I need something that's decently
| waterproof. A G-Shock is practically indestructible.
| dharmab wrote:
| I completely shattered my wrist some years back in an extreme
| circumstance. The GShock on that wrist was fine, and still
| works. I did have to replace the strap and a bent spring bar.
| az09mugen wrote:
| I own a Fossil Hybrid 6 with e-ink and I'm very happy with it.
| The only features I needed were step counting, notifications,
| and the date. The customization of the screen is well thougt
| and allows a lot a of custom "watch faces" . By disabling all
| the other unnecessary stuff (alexa, heartbeat, O2 sensor,
| meteo,..), I can last more than one month without charging it.
| I will look into the G-Shock you're talking if (I hope not) my
| smartwatch comes to die.
| ianburrell wrote:
| I think Google's strategy of using watch makers for WearOS is
| dead, Fossil was last and biggest one. With Android Wear (WearOS
| 1), it was all electronics companies. With WearOS 2, it was watch
| makers. The watches were slow cause of using old processors. But
| they had normal and interesting designs.
|
| Then WearOS 3 unified Android and Samsung's Tizen. Also, Google
| makes own Pixel Watch. The new watches had better processors. I
| got the feeling that the watch makers had a hard time with new
| tech.
| pjmlp wrote:
| It is going to be the same dead end as Android Things, when
| they gave up on Brillo and decided to push a mini-Android
| without NDK instead, naturally lost to Arduinos and ESP32 of
| the world.
|
| WearOS might have the NDK, but still requires beefy CPUs, as it
| is almost a full Android for all practical purposes.
|
| Whereas other smartwatch OSes are a mix of C, C++, pseudo
| JavaScript with SVG like Zepp OS, or Monkey C on Garmin's case.
|
| Most watch makers would rather keep using something like C89 or
| Assembly, and feeble CPUs, with year long batteries.
|
| Which come to think of it is was also how Pebble SDK was
| originally.
| neodymiumphish wrote:
| With all the performance enhancements it touted, I really
| thought Fuschia would be the perfect home for WesrOS
| hardware, but it seems that'll never happen.
| tw04 wrote:
| >I got the feeling that the watch makers had a hard time with
| new tech.
|
| I got the feeling that watch makers saw Google give Samsung a
| 6-month head start on WearOS 3 (as a bribe to kill Tizen) and
| said: yaaaa... we're not playing this game.
|
| https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-and-googles-secrecy-w...
| whatever1 wrote:
| Like with tablets, only apple knows how to make a profit out of
| these.
| pjmlp wrote:
| There are plenty of Android tablets in Europe, not everyone has
| a wage to cope with Apple prices.
| Kamq wrote:
| The comment you responded to is about profit, not market
| penetration.
|
| You can get a lot of market penetration by having a series of
| companies spin up, ultimately fail to become profitable, and
| collapse. Especially with a market that's incredibly price
| conscious.
| pjmlp wrote:
| To have a profit in a specific country there have to be
| enough people with iDevices to start with.
|
| Like US is basically Apple takes it all, the rest of the
| world there are country where only rich kids get iDevices,
| those country apps companies care about the whole
| population.
| Kamq wrote:
| > To have a profit in a specific country there have to be
| enough people with iDevices to start with.
|
| Sure, it's necessary, but it isn't sufficient.
| jijijijij wrote:
| And like with the iPad, Apple doesn't make a profit from
| selling hardware, but hooking you up on a fantasy of a digital
| life, they only ever tease technologically, but never really
| deliver. At some point, you will always find yourself held back
| by artificial and practical limitations (at least if you desire
| to actually use the hardware as advertised), with the false
| promise of yet another Apple gadget finally making you whole.
| They don't make profit from producing either tablets, or smart
| watches, but the sunken cost fallacy in their ultimately
| crippling ecosystem.
|
| If Apple made a profit by selling standalone devices, I could
| respect this argument. But _especially_ with the iPad and its
| fully capable processing power to replace a general purpose
| computing device, it 's easy to see how their business
| "ingenuity" is set up.
|
| As someone, who fell for it twice, I think frustration and
| sadness about yet another competitor dropping out is absolutely
| warranted and relatable.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _And like with the iPad, Apple doesn 't make a profit from
| selling hardware..._
|
| Incorrect, Apple makes money selling devices (except
| potentially Apple Vision, in the short term), which have an
| average gross margin of ~35%. Average gross margin across all
| products is ~45%.
| jijijijij wrote:
| You thought I meant to say Apple _literally_ sells just
| fantasies? Or did you stop reading in the middle of the
| first sentence?
| CharlesW wrote:
| You wrote, "If Apple made a profit by selling standalone
| devices, I could respect this argument", so I thought
| you'd find it useful to know that they do.
| jijijijij wrote:
| They don't sell standalone devices. They are all heavily
| dependent from and integrated into the Apple ecosystem.
| Try using an Apple Watch without an iPhone. Ever tried to
| share files between a non Apple device and your iPad?
|
| I am well aware they make and sell hardware. But it's all
| locked down to some extent.
| CharlesW wrote:
| For sure -- other than the Mac, Apple is no longer a
| general-purpose computer company. I'm content with that,
| but I'm glad there are choices for people who aren't.
| INTPenis wrote:
| Why does this keep happening? I loved Pebble, they get butchered.
| I replace it with Fossil, now they quit.
|
| All I want is a simple watch with simple features that doesn't
| require charging every day. Their hybrid line with some sort of
| e-ink (like) display really is perfect to me.
| kazinator wrote:
| Mechanical with automatic movement (wound spontaneously by
| motion of your wrist).
| fsckboy wrote:
| > _All I want is a simple watch with simple features that doesn
| 't require charging every day_
|
| casio?
| j7ake wrote:
| My Casio vibration watch has 10 year battery life.
| whycome wrote:
| model?
| INTPenis wrote:
| I don't think they have a hybrid watch.
|
| Or any smartwatch with a long lasting display that only needs
| charging every month, like the Fossil hybrid ones did.
| xander158 wrote:
| Check out the Casio GPRH1000
| asimovfan wrote:
| Same module with gbd h2000.
| nullify88 wrote:
| Withings
| martyvis wrote:
| The Garmin Instinct range is great. It natively is a smart
| watch but I guess you can turn it off, and just use the GPS to
| sync time. I have the original version and it lasts 2 weeks on
| a charge. The always-on memory-in-pixel is most readable in
| bright light (and had a back light that can be turned on by
| button or wrist twist if you like)
| INTPenis wrote:
| 14 days battery time is pretty good, but nothing compares to
| the 1month+ my Fossil Machine keeps going.
|
| When you only need notifications, and some music control, it
| works really well.
| davkan wrote:
| The solar version can last indefinitely if you're outdoors
| for a decent amount of time.
| morsch wrote:
| They also work well when you want to tell the _time_ ,
| which is more than can be said for some smart watches.
| lloeki wrote:
| My Garmin Fenix 7 Solar happily crosses the 20-25d mark,
| depending on usage.
|
| I have most features enabled though, using it as "just a
| watch" (which is what the tunable battery saver mode is,
| which I used a fee times in a bind) it turns 2d remaining
| into 1w+, so I would not be surprised if it would turn the
| 20-25d into 50-75d ballpark, possibly more.
|
| Instinct Solar and Crossover Solar seem to give the above a
| run with much longer times, a friend is getting a Crossover
| this month because of that. Unfortunately if the claim is
| true he's not going to be able to report success for a
| looong time...
| pjmlp wrote:
| Having its own tiny OS with Monkey C, instead of a cutted
| down Android variant, is also a big help for long battery
| life.
| nullify88 wrote:
| Withings watches offer a similar battery life, it really
| depends on how much the watch vibrates when notifications
| are routed to the watch.
|
| I love my Withings. Given what I've read about the Fossil
| application experience, I assume Withings is better in that
| regard too.
| mananaysiempre wrote:
| Withings watches don't seem to have a GPS radio, though.
| The advertised "connected GPS" means GPS date pulled over
| Bluetooth from your smartphone, correlated with other
| data from the watch by an app running on your smartphone,
| at which point it becomes unclear how this counts as a
| feature of the watch in the first place.
| nullify88 wrote:
| This is the case for many "hybrid" smart watches
| including the parents Fossil Machine. I believe the true
| feature is the display of distance travelled on the watch
| reported by the phone and app.
| zsoltkacsandi wrote:
| My Garmin Instinct 2X lasts 42 days.
| notesinthefield wrote:
| I think Ive owned every smart watch from the very old school
| tom toms and polars to apple watches to early android wear
| models and the Instinct 2 Solar is the best balance of
| functionality and battery life Ive ever seen.
| cglong wrote:
| I've never used them myself, but I always thought the Withings
| watches looked nice and filled this niche well.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| I wore a Withings for a year, it wasn't a terrible watch, but
| the tiny round display is really too small to be practical
| for scrolling notifications. Fossil/Citizen/Skagen all make
| variations of my current watch[1] which have much larger
| e-ink displays, are pretty easy to make your own faces for
| (just PNGs with some circles/transparent holes you can set to
| show data). Battery life is ~2wk though I don't use the heart
| monitor much.
|
| 1: https://www.skagen.com/en-us/smartwatches/learn-
| more/gen-6-h...
| rwbt wrote:
| Is that really that surprising? The thing about having software
| everywhere is that it tends to create ecosystems. The one or
| two companies that control those ecosystems tend to dictate
| everything which snuffs out a lot of these products.
| gnicholas wrote:
| I'm right there with you. After my Pebble, I tried tons of
| watches and settled on a garmin forerunner. It is pretty good
| and I do enjoy the larger screen. But there are still days when
| I wish I could get the battery replaced in my Pebble and switch
| back to it.
|
| I have been hoping that fossil (whose watch I didn't pick
| originally because I found the interface sluggish, text hard to
| read, and light difficult to trigger) would release an updated
| model that would be my next watch. Pretty bummed to see this
| news.
| happymellon wrote:
| Indeed, after my final Pebble died I moved to Fitbit because
| their Versa line gave me a similar experience, although I miss
| the eink, then Google picked them up and proceeded to trash it.
|
| They should have leaned in to it and made the Versa the
| equivalent Pixel Watch "a" series. Instead we have nothing good
| left.
| Moldoteck wrote:
| Try Garmin forerunner, for example forerunner 245 music. Not
| the same as pts but close enough: a lot of buttons,
| transflective display, some sort of trimmed quick access, big
| battery life
| graphe wrote:
| The Amazfit BIP does all that and can be hacked. The bip2 is
| much faster and can't be hacked. Both can have GPS and I ran
| mine for many weeks at a time with notifications, sleep
| tracking, pedometer, weather, etc.
| gnicholas wrote:
| The Amazfit GTR4 is also quite nice, with a crisp display,
| multiple physical buttons, and weeks of battery life. However
| I found it became unpaired from my phone every week or so,
| and I didn't feel awesome about entrusting my GPS-based
| location to a company that I don't know/trust. I also wanted
| better music controls via the physical buttons, which it
| didn't really do well.
|
| How did you hack the BIP, and what did you do with it then?
| graphe wrote:
| It was a Russian forum, but I can't find it.
| https://github.com/MNVolkov/libbip
| https://likeapp.soft112.com it's called BipOS.
|
| The device is safe since on iOS I restrict the Zepp app
| from any internet, but you need to refresh your GPS with
| the app. On Android it's much safer with something like
| gadgetbridge.
| gnicholas wrote:
| How do you restrict an app from internet on iOS? I know
| how to turn off cellular access but didn't think it was
| possible to cut off all access (other than going into
| airplane mode before opening it, and turning off
| background refresh).
| graphe wrote:
| It is in cellular, you can disable wifi in the apps when
| you scroll. Lots of cool features get buried or are
| unknown in iOS.
| gnicholas wrote:
| When I go to Settings > Cellular, all I see is a list of
| apps and a toggle to turn off cellular access for the
| apps. If you can help me find the wifi toggle, that would
| be amazing.
| graphe wrote:
| I deeply apologize. https://old.reddit.com/r/ios/comments
| /qus47i/has_apple_ever_... It seems to be only a
| jailbreak or a Chinese feature. It's not standardized
| like the new apps store. Mine looks like this.
| https://ibb.co/k474nBH
| whycome wrote:
| I had and loved the BIP but the glue failed and the screen
| popped off. Pretty cool little device. What kinds of hacks
| are doable?
| pjmlp wrote:
| As someone that was into Casio smartwatches back into the day,
| after they lose their novelty, all what most people want is
| knowing time.
|
| I got a basic Amazfit model now, besides time, I only care
| about SMS notifications and having it vibrate on calls.
|
| A single charge lasts around a month.
| kaliqt wrote:
| Garmin, every time.
| TMWNN wrote:
| As others have said, Amazfit Bip is the answer. You want to
| find the first one (Bip, or Bip Lite); it has the longest
| battery life. The watch has notifications, weather, and 40,000
| third-party faces. I get consistent ~20 days of battery life
| with heart rate check every minute (automatically speeds up to
| every couple of seconds during exercise).
|
| I bought Bip in 2018. I bought a $20 used Bip Lite as
| replacement in 2020 after Bip failed because of a known issue
| with the case's glue (fixed in later models), since I always
| run with my phone so don't need Bip's own GPS.
| delecti wrote:
| Oh, the case glue is a known issue? The face on mine popped
| off a few years ago and I thought that was an utterly bizarre
| failure. Fortunately the display stayed attached to the guts,
| so I just superglued it back on and it kept working.
| TMWNN wrote:
| > Oh, the case glue is a known issue?
|
| <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_--wQvPxyA>
| Saris wrote:
| Garmin.
|
| They've got models with various kinds of displays, from
| transflective outdoor usable ones to the usual OLED.
|
| Battery life on the non-OLED models can be very good too,
| especially on the solar ones, a month or more in most cases.
| linsomniac wrote:
| Note it can vary depending greatly on settings, which is kind
| of nice. I have a Forerunner 745 (sweet spot of features and
| price on Prime day), and I can get, IIRC, a solid week plus
| with the default settings. I ended up dialing way up the
| settings to get better tracking of sleep, which took the
| battery life to around 2.5 days.
| alephxyz wrote:
| Yep. I'm willing to pay extra for something dead simple that
| does what it needs to do and nothing more. No ads or
| distractions, connecting to sensors over ANT+ "just works",
| devices are supported for years, and if I think of a useful
| feature or metric to display I can create a monkey C module
| in about an hour. Makes me wish all IOT devices were like
| that. My only gripe with them is their segmentation of
| devices with nearly identical hardware into different
| segments (e.g. edge explore vs edge 130) and walling off
| features.
| Saris wrote:
| Garmin is a little bit closed off, that's the main
| downside.
|
| And as far as I can tell their app needs internet to sync
| data from the watch even though it's connected via
| bluetooth, I assume it's uploading to their servers for
| processing before viewing in app.
|
| Other than that it works great, I have no complaints about
| my Venu 2.
| atombender wrote:
| I bought my wife a Withings ScanWatch, and it's really sleek.
| [1]
|
| It's among the few hybrids that look like a proper, stylish
| watch; I compared it with hybrids from Garmin and some other
| leading brands, and Withings was without doubt the one with the
| best construction quality and aesthetics. (I didn't consider
| Fossil, not sure why.) Garmin's models are mostly plastic, but
| even the higher-end models have a kind of cheap look to them.
|
| [1] https://www.withings.com/us/en/scanwatch-2
| mgh2 wrote:
| Surprised Masimo did not sue them yet for oximeter
| pavlov wrote:
| Withings is French, which would complicate Masimo's legal
| strategy. They've probably got their hands full going after
| the big fish in America where their patents were originally
| granted.
| geraldhh wrote:
| is the temperature monitoring accurate enough to track
| ovulation cycles?
| atombender wrote:
| It's designed to be [1]. I don't personally know how
| accurate it is.
|
| [1] https://support.withings.com/hc/en-
| us/articles/1853769342926...
| geraldhh wrote:
| while the linked document is a good primer on
| menstruation, it doesn't say anything about the watch(es)
| capabilities in this regard.
|
| thx anyways
| atombender wrote:
| This is probably a better article:
| https://support.withings.com/hc/en-
| us/articles/1958311747419...
| imp0cat wrote:
| These look great, hopefully they can get a NFC-enabled
| version out soon.
| Larrikin wrote:
| I was excited because I generally like Withings, use many of
| their other products and hadn't even thought to check if they
| made watches.
|
| I'm ready to ditch Fitbit as Google seems to be doing
| everything they can to kill it. They bricked a bunch of
| devices and told everyone to just buy a new one.
|
| But it's frustrating that so many companies insist on the
| huge traditional size watch faces. I don't need or want the
| time or apps on my wrist, just the health features. All the
| competitors to Fitbit, especially Garmin, seem to be having
| their own competition of who can make the ugliest device that
| they can convince people to buy.
| ocharles wrote:
| Is Whoop maybe more what you're looking for? I don't think
| that has a display at all
| Larrikin wrote:
| This actually looks pretty good, thanks for the
| recommendation
| JBorrow wrote:
| I really loved my scanwatch but there was two major problems:
|
| The hardware (at least gen 1) has around a 1 year lifespan
| due to the quality of the seals. You can only get a warranty
| replacement once. Mine literally fell apart once when I put
| it on, then the other one was shorting out in the case.
|
| They don't allow heart rate sharing over Bluetooth. Kind of a
| niche feature but this stops you from using it as a heart
| rate monitor with a bike computer or other exercise
| equipment.
|
| In the end, after the support refused to service my watch for
| a warranty repair, I just switched to a Garmin Venu 3S, which
| I like, but I do miss that semi-analogue design.
| gklitz wrote:
| > that doesn't require charging every day.
|
| Why is this an issue? I have an Apple Watch and Every night
| when i take it off I put it in the charger. At this point it
| would be more confusing if I only needed to do this every other
| or every third day.
| brianwawok wrote:
| I'm annoyed every time I go overnight somewhere I have to
| pack a charger. I don't use many smart features...
| dylan604 wrote:
| then why have smart watch?
| alternatex wrote:
| So if you don't have to charge every day it's not a smart
| watch?
|
| It's not that difficult to produce a smart watch that can
| keep a battery for a week so I don't understand why you
| feel the need to condition people to get used to the
| horrible battery lives of popular watches as if it's the
| only way.
|
| I'm a big fan of Garmin's hybrid watches that are smart
| "enough" but provide a 9 day battery life. Recently,
| Mobvoi made it possible to have an Android Wear smart
| watch with a multi-day battery (TicWatch). Something that
| Google Pixel will have you think to be impossible.
| saidinesh5 wrote:
| Half the reason i use a "smart watch" is basically to track
| my sleep.
|
| My old Amazfit bip seems like it may give up on me any time
| now.. but I still can't find something that comes close to
| this in terms of it's 4 week battery life. Not even fitness
| trackers.
|
| I already have to charge my laptop, smartphone, steam deck
| daily. If i have to add earphones and smart watch to that
| list, it would be just too much for me.
| oezi wrote:
| I just take the Apple Watch off for showering in the
| morning.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Same, pain to deal with a wet watch anyways.
| dfc wrote:
| Is this because of the touch screen? I have only ever
| used my garmins. I can't imagine having a watch I could
| not use in the rain.
| saidinesh5 wrote:
| Touch screen, the silicone/cloth straps absorbing/holding
| some moisture and making the wrist feel sweaty for the
| next hour or so..
| garrickvanburen wrote:
| I charge it over breakfast and it's usually fully charged in
| time my morning run
| dfc wrote:
| I've never understood how people can eat before running in
| the morning. How long do you wait after eating to go out
| running?
| Aardwolf wrote:
| What if you want it to measure your sleep?
| dotnet00 wrote:
| You can stick it on the charger while eating, taking a
| shower or whatever else. With my samsung watch I usually
| stick it on the charger in the morning or in the hours
| before bed, when I don't really care about collecting any
| data/don't have to worry about urgent notifications.
|
| And if I'm out somewhere and don't have my watch charger
| handy, I can stick it on the back of my phone and charge it
| from that.
| deergomoo wrote:
| Most Apple Watches these days will easily get ~1.5 days of
| battery. Mine's usually down to about 30% by the time I
| wake up, and is back to 100% in roughly the hour my morning
| routine takes.
| notesinthefield wrote:
| If for any reason you forget, its useless. If youre traveling
| and forget the charger there is exactly one place you can get
| another. Its also pretty ugly.
| nozzlegear wrote:
| I assume you mean that the Apple Store is the only place
| you can get a charger? I don't know where you live or where
| you're traveling, but I just checked on Walmart and they're
| in stock, available for pickup at the two Walmarts within
| 20 miles of where I live in rural Iowa. Same for Best Buy
| and Target.
|
| > Its also pretty ugly.
|
| Subjective obviously but I quite like how they look.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I've had two Apple watches and never charged them in an
| Apple charger. I have a third party charger that works
| great and a different third-party battery-based charger.
| ilikehurdles wrote:
| Not having to think about charging another device is huge,
| and it charges so quickly that if I forget before an activity
| that I can plug it in while I'm getting ready or showering
| and have plenty of juice to last throughout.
|
| Real reason I got my forerunner though is for backpacking and
| skiing, so conditions where I'll be in extreme temperatures
| batteries don't like, without cell phone service, without
| power overnight, and potentially needing to navigate on
| offline maps. I know this doesn't reflect the average buyer
| though.
| maxglute wrote:
| It was glaring issue when I upgraded to a smart watch that
| recquired daily charging from smartband that I charged every
| other week.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Because you might want to use sleep tracking and alarms. I
| have a watch with a three day battery life and it's nice to
| not have to charge it often.
| StevePerkins wrote:
| There's still Garmin... but honestly, I don't understand why
| people insist on paying hundreds of dollars for a "name", when
| the watch you are describing is only worth $50, give or take.
|
| Amazfit, Xiamoni, Pautios, etc. There's a flood of competitors
| on Amazon selling the functionality you describe at a price
| level that makes it non-worthwhile for the "name" brands.
| That's why those famous brands exit the space.
|
| There are two leagues of "smart" watches. At the high-end,
| "cell phone on your wrist" tier, there's Apple and just enough
| smaller players to keep Apple somewhat honest. It's really more
| fashion accessory than practical device.
|
| At the basic "pedometer, Bluetooth notifications from my phone,
| and week-long battery" tier, there are tons of options. But
| margins are razor thin, so the cool names don't play in that
| space. Down here you're talking about a purely utilitarian
| device rather than a fashion accessory.
| robryk wrote:
| Something that has gps, can display a bit of a map, and is
| waterproof is somewhere between your two leagues and I think
| it's genuinely useful.
| dorfsmay wrote:
| Why a GPS? Do you ever go anywhere without your phone where
| a GPS would be useful?
| Gare wrote:
| It's great for outdoor sports - it's uncomfortable to
| carry your phone while running or swimming, for example.
| filoleg wrote:
| Not the person you are replying to, but I find it vastly
| more convenient to not pull out my phone all the time to
| check the directions to make sure I am on the right
| track. With a smartwatch, checking directions feels about
| as frictionless and simple as checking an analog watch
| for time.
|
| For those running, I can see it being useful as well. GPS
| for tracking the morning run, with zero need to carry
| your heavy phone with you. And (talking about apple watch
| specifically, as that's the one I have experience with),
| you can even connect your wireless headphones directly
| and listen to music too without needing a phone.
| galleywest200 wrote:
| When out backpacking its nice to have a GPS that is
| attached to your arm and always works, as opposed to
| fighting for signal with your phone.
| chias wrote:
| Yes: using turn-by-turn GPS directions while riding a
| bicycle or motorcycle. My Pebble Time was perfect for
| this. I have not found a replacement.
| nelgaard wrote:
| yes. I do outdoor sports, mostly rowing. My phone is not
| that waterproof, I will not risk dropping it in the
| water. I would not be able to use anyway. I really like
| to do things without bringing a phone. Plus the whole
| privacy issue.
| jfengel wrote:
| That adds a lot of power drain.
| dylan604 wrote:
| > just enough smaller players to keep Apple somewhat honest
|
| so honest they use unlicensed tech?
| stusmall wrote:
| > There's still Garmin... but honestly, I don't understand
| why people insist on paying hundreds of dollars for a "name",
|
| Another way of saying "paying for a name" is "paying for
| trust". When you run notifications through a smart watch you
| give it a lot of sensitive information. For example the
| contents of texts you receive. Depending on the
| device/implementation it can be a lot more. If it manages
| this data via a companion app then it's pretty easy for it to
| phone home too.
|
| I don't turn notifications on my watch, I'm distracted enough
| as is, but if I did I'd be careful about the device I use. I
| suspect some of those bottom of the barrel devices aren't
| treating this sensitive level of access with the upmost care.
| tptacek wrote:
| OK, but either way, the preceding comment has offered an
| explanation for why vendors keep doing this: because they
| can't make money in this space.
| m463 wrote:
| With garmin, you can just go use the watch.
|
| I have simply used the watch since the day I bought it. took
| it out of the box, put it on my wrist.
|
| I've kept track of my SLEEP, my hiking or running, I've
| acclimatized to the mountains, I can check my resting heart
| rate, number of steps, maps, sunrise/sunset, respiration,
| stress, pulseox, etc..
|
| It is not uploading my sexual activity.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37514355
|
| I've never put it online, connected it to my phone or
| anything else. I've never had to create an account or upload
| anything.
|
| I put it on the charger when I jump in the shower and that is
| all I need. A charge lasts 5-6 days.
| petre wrote:
| Fossil is in an entirely different market: fashion
| acessories. Their smartwatches don't do much apart from
| displaying texts and vibrating when you get a call. Whoever
| wants a fashion item that does stuff, buys an Apple Watch
| instead. I have a Garmin as well, since I don't care for
| fashion items.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| This.
|
| It does what I want it to do and it doesn't do anything I
| don't want it to do.
| OldManAndTheCpp wrote:
| The Apple Watch has best in class health sensors + fitness
| monitoring. Cycle tracking, blood O2 sensing, ecg function
| are all truly valuable.
|
| I bought a watch for myself, my parents and my girlfriend.
| The prompting and social aspects of the "close your rings"
| exercise tracking have already led to a ~10 bpm decrease in
| my girlfriend's resting heart rate, suggesting a marked
| improvement in her cardiovascular health.
|
| Personally, I find the Apple Watch somewhat ugly, but the
| fitness features are worth the sartorial limitations!
| pedalpete wrote:
| That "best in class" is only true if you listen to Apple's
| marketing.
|
| The sensors in Garmin, Suunto, Samsung, and many others are
| equally as good, plus Garmin and Suunto have significantly
| better battery life than Apple too.
| quatrefoil wrote:
| > I don't understand why people insist on paying hundreds of
| dollars for a "name", when the watch you are describing is
| only worth $50, give or take.
|
| Why do people pay for The North Face, when you can have
| knock-off brands for 1/5th the price?
|
| Part of it is paying for better quality assurance, more
| predictable and coherent UX, and so on. But a big part is
| that yeah, this day and age, watches are fashion / status
| accessories. They do nothing your phone can't. That doesn't
| mean they have no value to the buyers: the continued
| popularity of pricey mechanical watches is proof that there's
| more to this story.
|
| The problem is that smartwatches never really positioned
| themselves as particularly... interesting. They don't signal
| social status, they aren't pretty, they don't do anything
| mind-blowing. They're just somewhat cheap-looking and
| oversized black slabs that display messages from your phone,
| clumsily.
|
| So far, the closest to a "killer" application for the tech is
| trying to gamify everyday activities by tracking steps, sleep
| patterns, or heart rate. But how many people stay fixated on
| this and really keep it up in the long haul? As for the
| fashion part... there's only so much mileage you can get out
| of the ability to change wallpapers or bands.
| gvurrdon wrote:
| For me, what has been a "killer" feature is the ability to
| use voice commands to:
|
| - Send and respond to messages.
|
| - Set timers.
|
| - Set reminders.
|
| This is far easier than getting out a phone and trying to
| type on a horrid touchscreen keyboard.
|
| Paying for things and timing runs are also useful. The
| Apple Watch does all these things adequately, though I
| don't like using an iPhone.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| I'll have to look at the market again, but two years ago the
| "cheap smartwatch" class was buggy and shitty.
| Groxx wrote:
| This has been overwhelmingly my experience too, across the
| entire price range. They're either unusable garbage, or
| they're _mostly_ functional (and nothing has been as stable
| as my pebble) but also _huge_ and priced like a fashion
| accessory.
| gnicholas wrote:
| I want a brand I trust (not to track me) when using a device
| equipped with a GPS radio and hooked up to an app on my
| internet-connected smartphone. I tried an Amazfit and it was
| pretty good, but the privacy/security concerns were one of
| the main reasons I didn't go with it.
| inkyoto wrote:
| > _when the watch you are describing is only worth $50, give
| or take_.
|
| How do you know that it is <<only>>? The BOM alone is likely
| to exceed that for a not very smart watch. There is no
| <<only>>, as there are other costs of running a smartwatch
| business:
|
| - The cost of engineering the bloody thing: you have to pay
| salaries to engineers. Smartwatch engineering is a niche
| skill and not every engineer is capable of creating a good
| smartwatch design.
|
| - The BOM itself: engineering decisions will affect the BOM.
| Sacrifices might have to be made, which has a risk of the
| final product becoming less reliable or less clamourable to
| consumers.
|
| - Supply chain management: the cost of a stable supply chain
| might fluctuate but the supply will be stable. A supplier
| might be cheaper but flaky which means unexpected
| repurcussions for the production line; for example,
| components becoming unavailable and requiring re-engineering
| thusly.
|
| - Integration with smartphones: most users expect a
| smartphone app, which means actually 2x apps (Android and
| iOS), which means salaried mobile app developers. Apps
| require on-going support, so it will become an ongoing
| expense. If you handwaive the smartphone apps as a nuisance,
| the watch might be not as appealing to consumers.
|
| - Scale: for the product to be sustainable, it has to be
| produced in significant numbers. The manufacturing line is
| unlikely to agree to produce the product in the quantity of,
| say, 1k units either.
|
| - Quality assurance: customers will abuse the product. So it
| will have to be tested within a particularly defined
| framework to reduce the number of support incidents. QA costs
| money, too.
|
| - Marketing: customers have to discover the product before it
| can be sold to them and know why they should want this
| product and not a competitor's. Marketing is not free, even
| if it is one man show. If the customers can't discover the
| product, revenue will be zero or close to zero.
|
| - Distribution network: resellers will take a cut from each
| watch sold which will have to factored into a unit's price.
| Direct distribution channels can do away with that, but you
| will have to negotiate contracts with postal and courier
| services to get the preferential pricing, or pass the cost
| onto the customer (not every customer likes high shipping
| costs), procure quality shipping packaging in numbers (the
| smartwatch is fragile) and be prepared to run to the post
| office yourself, like, daily.
|
| - Support: stuff breaks. So you will have to commit to and
| support the product, and support is not free. Customers will
| come back to you with all sorts unusual problems and
| sometimes with zany requests. No or poor support, a backlash
| from customers and alike will not be conducive to the overall
| success of the enterprise.
|
| - Costs of running the business: accountant(s), sundries,
| plus your own salary.
|
| - Taxation: the government in your local jurisdiction will
| send a tax man to you to get a slice.
|
| - Most importantly: profit. Sustainable profit from each unit
| sold also has to be factored into the price. The product has
| to become profitable at some point otherwise it will tank and
| vanish before it reaches v2.
|
| That is a very, very high level breakdown of things that are
| just on the surface, and there are many nuances and
| unexpected expenses. All of that defines the cost of a single
| unit.
|
| At the $50 price point it is unlikely to become a successful
| _smartwatch_ product.
| StevePerkins wrote:
| Counterpoint:
|
| (1) I see a myriad of products on Amazon fitting the
| description that parent comment was talking about, the
| average retail prices being sub-$50.
|
| (2) We are literally conversing in the comments of a post
| about name brands withdrawing from this space. Because
| below the Apple level, margins are too thin.
| inkyoto wrote:
| 1. It is hard to reason without having a reference to a
| concrete product. For a start, how would a branded
| smartwatch and a no-name one compare in terms of:
|
| - Feature parity (hardware and software).
|
| - Build quality (again, hardware, software and materials
| used in the making).
|
| - Overall quality (will it die in 3 days, in 3 months or
| will last).
|
| - Support (branded products are sold through local
| reseller channels and are subject to the local consumer
| protection laws - if it dies 1 month later, can it be
| fixed or replaced?)
|
| I did have a quick look at the latest Fossil watch
| product before chiming in, and their watch seemed like a
| very sophisticated and polished product. I still have my
| doubts that there is a $50 functional and quality
| counterpart to it.
|
| 2. Apple has taken up the upper end of the niche for a
| reason - they have an ecosystem that their watch products
| weave into seamlessly. Their watch can even be used to
| unlock a MacBook in the direct proximity of it - it is a
| bonus feature, unrelated to the watch functionality
| itself but is possible because of the ecosystem.
|
| Non-Apple products would always remain 2nd class citizens
| on the Apple platform due to having to interoperate with
| someone else's platform by virtue of being a standalone
| watch product and not part of their own ecosystem.
|
| Even if the Apple ecosystem was entirely unlocked and
| open to third party watch products, the competing watch
| products would still always lag behind due to having to
| constantly playing a catch-up with new platform features.
| macintux wrote:
| > Their watch can even be used to unlock a MacBook in the
| direct proximity of it - it is a bonus feature, unrelated
| to the watch functionality itself but is possible because
| of the ecosystem.
|
| I know it's a small thing, but I have to wake up early
| several days a month to perform a production health check
| at work, and I love the smooth integration:
|
| 1. Roll out of bed
|
| 2. Put on my Apple Watch
|
| 3. Unlock my iPhone with FaceID as I'm walking to my
| laptop
|
| 4. My iPhone unlocks my Watch by the time I get there
|
| 5. I tap a key on my keyboard, and my Watch unlocks my
| laptop
|
| Unfortunately that smooth integration comes to a crashing
| halt when I have to log into my work VDI, but the Apple
| ecosystem is a very warm, welcoming place.
| nottorp wrote:
| I really hope you remember your password. Unless you like
| being locked out of your device chain when one breaks :)
| macintux wrote:
| Apple's pretty good about not letting you get away with
| biometrics authentication for too long without prompting
| for a password.
| acdha wrote:
| Have you actually used the Amazon $50 devices? It would
| not be the first time that the claims made in the
| description were sharply undercut by the actual product.
| I'd easily believe that a tight BOM lets you put
| something roughly watch-sized together but that it
| involves enough compromises that few people would
| consider it a true competitor.
| rtpg wrote:
| You say this but Garmin and Xiaomi are the only ones shipping
| things with week+ long batteries right? There's an extreme
| qualitative difference in "I need to charge this once every 2
| days (or more like every day)" and "I need to charge this
| once every 10 days"
| StevePerkins wrote:
| Every brand I mentioned above has battery life of at least
| a week. My current watch is between 10 and 14 days.
|
| Do remember that I'm replying to a parent comment looking
| for "a simple watch with simple features". The watches that
| I'm referring to are basically pedometers and sleep
| trackers, with Bluetooth notifications from your phone. Of
| course it's possible to get week+ battery life with that
| feature set, even with a nice-looking AMOLED display. If
| you're willing to settle for an TFT-LCD display (I don't
| recommend it), then you can get nearly a month.
|
| Then additional replies come along, saying, _" Oh, but
| ---I--- need independent on-board GPS and waterproofing to
| two leagues of depth for my SCUBA hobby, notifications that
| never ever glitch, and I want a privacy audit trail for all
| of my super-secret data about how many steps I take per
| day"_. Well, okay. Maybe just buy an Apple Watch then? It
| all depends on your definition of a "smart watch", but I am
| discussing how I believe that parent commenter and myself
| define it. If you're incredulous that week+ battery life is
| ubiquitous in this range, then we may be thinking about
| completely different things.
| theshackleford wrote:
| > It's really more fashion accessory than practical device.
|
| It's one of the most practical devices I own but I hadnt
| considered it a fashion accessory. Nobody who sees my watch
| thinks that, in fact most think the opposite but I'm ok with
| it cause I didn't get it to serve that purpose.
|
| Maybe it's because I own the poor version with a plain black
| sports band. Maybe if I owned a prettier one I'd get more
| compliments. However I have real watches when I need
| something like that which I think look much nicer if I'm
| going to dress up etc.
|
| _edit_
|
| To be fair I'm the furthest thing from fashionable and always
| have been so...I'm probably not the best judge of these
| things I suppose.
| fsflover wrote:
| > All I want is a simple watch with simple features that
| doesn't require charging every day.
|
| Have a look at Pinetime. It won't be discontinued, since it's
| an open-source smart watch.
| maxglute wrote:
| Basically a fitness band with 3 weeks of battery life that does
| 90% of typical smartwatch usage. IMO this is where huawei
| watches got it right, they're glorified smartbands with good
| hardware with a hardware button that adds extra utility (too
| bad non programmable).
|
| But yes to epaper screen and programmable buttons would be
| nice. Pebble was 10 years ago, I thought we'd be at commodity
| F91W smartwatch hardware by now. And TBF $50 fitness trackers
| are close.
| screye wrote:
| Watch lovers buy from legacy watch makers. Fitness freaks buy
| Garmin & smart bands. Tech lovers buy the best integrated
| software (Samsung/Apple). Quirky product fans aren't volume
| buyers.
|
| What is Fossil's identity ?
| petre wrote:
| Fashion items, stainless steel jewelry sold for the price of
| silver. Their smartwatches are hybrids, but I've never liked
| their baroque designs. If I was buying a fashion watch I'd
| probably get a Skagen instead, which is also owned by Fossil.
| HumblyTossed wrote:
| What the hell does Apple's watch do that it drains the battery
| in a little more than one day? Seems to me like it's
| overpowered for what it is. My garmin lasts 10 days.
| pizza234 wrote:
| That really depends on which the "simple features" are, because
| to every user, they're different, and also, what a "watch" is.
|
| The reason I'm making this distinction is because at face
| value, any fitness tracker will do. They display the
| timme/date, have many extra simple features, and they last
| 10/14 days.
|
| If one wants something more watch-looking, there are
| small/budget smartwatches, that are essentially fitness
| trackers with a larger screen (and in some cases, a GPS).
|
| The problem is actually the apps, which are terrible and/or
| aggressive. Huawei display ads, and very weaselly, they
| introduce a small delay, so that one can easily click on them
| by accident; also, for some models, the app is not provided on
| Google Play (!). Most, possibly all, apps keep warning the user
| about giving location permissions, even if one doesn't care.
|
| Besides very special cases (solar-powered, battery-powered
| etc.), the smartwatch with the longest battery life was the
| Amazfit Bip, but it was really, really terrible.
| delecti wrote:
| Counterpoint, I've been a very happy user of an Amazfit Bip
| for about 6 years now, wearing it 24/7 aside from showering
| and medical procedures. It does absolutely everything I need
| it to, and even after 6 years the battery gets me multiple
| weeks. My only complaint is that the UI is a bit sluggish,
| but it hasn't kept it from being a great device.
| esel2k wrote:
| Still using my pebble (I have a PTR and PTS). I gully agree
| with what you say and would even go further. I am happy with
| just an eInk screen and some basic features that sync like once
| a week.
| Moldoteck wrote:
| Fyi pebble is not eink, it's transflective lcd, similar to
| some garmin options nowadays. Basically it's an lcd without
| backlight by default and in daylight the reflected light is
| enough to make the content clear and readable
| jnwatson wrote:
| The Fitbit trackers last about 5 days on a charge.
| jxf wrote:
| Garmin's Fenix line is massively overkill but it's in this
| category, and I got it for this reason. It can go weeks without
| charging.
| SoylentBob wrote:
| I have a Fossil Neutra Smartwatch. On the upside it is a decent
| watch, that I can wear in any context.
|
| On the downside the display is really bad and won't actually
| display anything at this point anymore, the watch is working fine
| though. Their app and synchronization process is also horrible.
| Synchronization is only triggered when you open the app, this
| process then takes what feels like ages to update the information
| in the app, and here comes the best part: You don't even get any
| valuable insights in your workout. Just some basic bar charts and
| sums.
|
| I feel that a Watch like that still is a product I'd like to buy,
| but the Fossil experience imo wasn't good enough overall.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| Why has every smartwatch manufacturer (Apple included) refused to
| just sell me a watch sized phone? These things have more
| processing power than a gaming desktop from ten years ago. Why
| can't they just ship a fully fledged mobile OS, with 5G hotspot,
| external display support, and just provide my entire mobile
| experience? Instead we're left with pointless $500 step counters.
| relyks wrote:
| Apple does sell a watch with cellular and GPS and it can
| replace a phone (you can literally talk into it)
| pharmakom wrote:
| How would most things work on such a small screen?
|
| I think the Apple Watch will become increasingly standalone.
| jolmg wrote:
| Samsung sells watches with standalone cellular. You can get an
| eSIM for the watch and leave your phone at home. Seems their
| Gear S from 10 years ago was the first.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Gear_S
| otikik wrote:
| The market has said they want big screens. They don't even make
| small-sized smartphones any more. You must carry that
| skateboard around, like everyone else.
| lozenge wrote:
| Battery life??
| anonuser123456 wrote:
| Why doesn't Apple sell the Apple Watch Ultra?
| climb_stealth wrote:
| Are there any decent hybrid smart watch alternatives? With that
| mean I mean having phone connectivity and alarms but still an
| analog watch.
|
| My Fossil Commuter is analog. But can configure notifications
| from the phone, and configure for each app where the hands point
| when it vibrates.
|
| Perfect for being able to have the phone on silent and just wear
| a regular watch. I don't want to read messages on my watch. I
| just want it to tell me when I'm getting a phone call because my
| phone is entirely silent.
|
| The battery also lasts for a year like a regular watch.
| nullify88 wrote:
| Have a look at Withings. My HR Sport watch lasts just over a
| month on a single charge. I'm also satisfied with the
| application experience on Android.
|
| I'm surprised to see not many mentions of Withings here.
| Perhaps it's more popular in Europe.
| snoopen wrote:
| I recently was looking at this for my partner. The best two
| options I've seen so far is the Withings ScanWatch (actually
| the ScanWatch 2 I think was recently released) and the Garmin
| Vivomove Trend. I don't have direct experience with them but
| from my research they seem decent. Of course they have limits
| compared to a full smartwatch.
| oakashes wrote:
| I had a Withings for a couple years and ended up frustrated
| with it. The tiny screen meant that many notifications took
| so long to read I often just got my phone out instead. But
| the worst thing was the lack of a "find my phone" feature.
|
| I switched to the Garmin Vivomove and have been very happy
| with it. It looks fantastic IMO, the transflective screen is
| big enough to be useful, and it has only the features I want.
| The only downsides are that the Garmin Android app is not as
| well designed as the Withings app and the battery life is
| only 4 days or so instead of a week, which feels like an
| awkward amount of time.
| yread wrote:
| We recently got Kronaby (owned by Festina). They look nice and
| the software is ok. We also looked at Sequent. Not sure about
| the 5-10 year future of these two, though
| ilamont wrote:
| Citizen has tried. The first generation struggled with power,
| connectivity, and software. The second generation is getting
| better user reviews, and the power problems were apparently
| solved, but the UI (button based) is tricky.
|
| https://www.citizenwatch.com/us/en/collection/smartwatches/
| joshlemer wrote:
| Garmin Instinct Crossover?
| nunorbatista wrote:
| Have you seen the Tissot connect? Latest version is pretty good
| gnicholas wrote:
| Can it control music playback?
| TrianguloY wrote:
| I recently bought a smartwatch. After a thorough search I ended
| up with two options: ticwatch pro 5 and pixel watch 2. I ended
| with the pixel, because of the size.
|
| It's a shame, I really liked the ticwatch, but most watches are
| just too big for my wrist size. The pixel is not great software-
| side (it has a sort of wallet garden, without a pixel phone most
| features aren't available) but ergonomically it's perfect.
|
| I don't know about fossil, but for me it seems like wear
| manufacturers haven't yet found what users want (except maybe for
| Apple, but that's probably because there is only one option)
| gnicholas wrote:
| For me, and some of the other commenters here, it was more
| about the hybrid smartwatches that have 2-week battery lives. I
| never even tried their full-fledged smartwatches.
| sofixa wrote:
| > The pixel is not great software-side (it has a sort of wallet
| garden, without a pixel phone most features aren't available)
| but ergonomically it's perfect.
|
| Really? Most reviews I read seemed to indicate the Pixel
| Watches work fine with any recent Android, contrary to
| Samsung's watches that require Samsung Android phones for most
| features.
| mikelward wrote:
| Without a Pixel Watch, Do Not Disturb doesn't sync. I think
| also swiping notifications away on the watch doesn't dismiss
| them on the phone.
|
| Wouldn't call that "most features", but they're quite
| important to me.
| TrianguloY wrote:
| Do not disturb doesn't sync, you can't see the watch battery
| from the phone, nor even get a notification when it finishes
| charging.
|
| They are not most features, I should have used "some", my
| mistake, but for an android watch connected to an android
| phone...it's not pleasant.
|
| Still, I have them by using third party apps (one of them
| open source where I even fixed a bug, the other from tasker)
| which is why I prefer android to other proprietary os
| watches.
| nfriedly wrote:
| I have a ticwatch pro 3, and I have mixed feelings about it.
|
| I was pretty happy with it early on, but the software was
| always a little hit-and-mis. In particular the Google voice
| assistant stopped working a year or so ago, and when they
| finally rolled out the WearOS 3 update a few weeks ago, it just
| removed that feature (and several others) rather than fixing
| it.
|
| I am a big fan of the dual-display with a super-low-power,
| sunlight-readable LCD and a richer OLED behind it.
|
| I also really liked having a user-assignable hardware button,
| although mine stopped working after a couple of years, and
| apparently the WearOS 3.0 "upgrade" took away that feature too.
| TrianguloY wrote:
| I don't use the assistant (in fact I have it disabled) so I
| personally wouldn't mind. The user assignable button is
| wonderful (the pixel has two buttons: you can configure
| nothing of them) really sad they removed the feature too.
|
| The dual display was my biggest lost. I need always on, and
| very few watches support it. With the pixel I get 2 days of
| battery with it, which I've become used to, but I would love
| to have that lcd display.
|
| As for wear os: I had a moto sport with wear 1. It was basic
| but functional. Then it was upgraded to wear 2 and it
| improved a lot, I really liked it. But then the wear 3 was
| released (which that watch never got) and it's like google
| forgot everything else. Now I have wear 4, which I don't feel
| particularly happy about it, mainly because of the horrible
| material theme (seriously, everything is sized as if you used
| your full thumb, padding everywhere, wear 2 had almost double
| the information visible)
| nfriedly wrote:
| * correction: it's now on Wear OS 3.5 after the recent
| "upgrade". I'm not sure what it was on before that, but it
| might have been 3.0.
| osigurdson wrote:
| I used my apple watch for a couple of years but the pain of daily
| charging starts to drag.
| dkasper wrote:
| Do you not daily charge your phone?
| themaninthedark wrote:
| You don't have to unfasten a phone to charge it.
| rchaud wrote:
| It's a hassle to keep multiple devices charged. If 80% of
| people have the mental bandwidth to keep their phone charged
| daily, I'd say less than 50% would be able to do the same for
| 2 devices.
|
| Part of the reason people like tablets as a second device is
| that you can turn off the screen and it'll maintain a charge
| for several days. If it had to be charged as frequently as a
| phone, people would just stick to their phone.
| MSFT_Edging wrote:
| When I commute regularly, the ~25m plugged into my car to and
| from work will keep my phone going all week. When I work from
| home, I'll be charging it every other day, or piecemeal on a
| wireless charger when I remember.
|
| I love my mechanical watches because a few twists on the
| crown gets it moving and the automatic movement keeps it
| wound the rest of the day.
| osigurdson wrote:
| I do but the phone is much more useful and doesn't require a
| special charger. I might start using it again at some point.
| saltcured wrote:
| Heh, just to weird you out, I'll share that I charge my Pixel
| 5a phone about once a week and my Garmin FR255 watch about
| once every two weeks. And that's while recording about 5-6
| hours of GPS tracks per week on the watch.
|
| I spend a lot of time in front of large screens, so my phone
| is mostly there in standby either to let someone call me or
| to do a quick check when away from a better computer.
|
| If I'm going somewhere expecting a call while my phone is
| pocketed, I might look for call notifications on my wrist.
| But otherwise I'd rather just poll my phone infrequently.
| Since I'm not enslaved to notifications, I usually turn on
| the bluetooth link once weekly to allow the watch to sync
| health data and refresh its cache of GPS ephemera for quick
| location fixes.
| ljm wrote:
| I was the same and eventually went back to the Apple Watch
| because the alternatives I tried were nice as watches but came
| up short in the 'smart' department.
|
| I'm not as bothered by the charging since it gets enough of a
| boost while I'm in the shower.
| crazygringo wrote:
| Do you not take it off at night?
|
| I've never had a problem since I always take my watch off, so
| putting it on a side table or charging it on a side table is a
| non-issue.
|
| But I think some people wear it for sleep info? And I've always
| been baffled at how/when they charge it.
| dotnet00 wrote:
| Pretty much the only data I care about from my watch (that
| only it can gather) is my sleep, so I just stick it on the
| charger in the day, eg when having a meal, when showering, or
| an hour before bed, when I also don't have to worry about
| urgent notifications.
| Krasnol wrote:
| Sleep tracking is just after fitness tracking the most
| important thing for me.
|
| I have a Garmin and I usually charge it once a week.
| mman0114 wrote:
| I just charge mine while I shower, 20-30 min get's me back to
| 100%.
| powersnail wrote:
| Niche situation: I charge it when I practice the violin,
| which takes about an hour daily, and that's more than enough
| to charge to 100%. To be honest, I'd need to take off the
| watch during practice anyway, even if the battery lasts a
| month.
|
| A friend of mine has a charger in his car, and charges his
| watch during commute.
| osigurdson wrote:
| Agree. I think if I had chargers everywhere it would be
| better.
| mglz wrote:
| Are there any privacy friendly smartwatches around?
| WXLCKNO wrote:
| When the market isn't even profitable enough for regular smart
| watches, I feel like the privacy niche won't have many people
| competing for it.
|
| Curious though if there are any
| kaanyalova wrote:
| There is PineTime
|
| https://pine64.org/devices/pinetime/
| codeulike wrote:
| I have a fossil hybrid with e-ink screen. So good, only have to
| charge it once every two weeks
| imiric wrote:
| Same. I love my Hybrid HR. I really don't want a screen on my
| wrist, and I like traditional watches, so this was a great
| middle ground to get some smart functionality.
|
| All other alternatives are too gaudy, bulky and techy. Guess
| I'll have to keep looking. ...Based on the discussion here, the
| Garmin Vivomove series looks interesting...
| mechhacker wrote:
| I really like my Garmin Fenix. Got someone else a Garmin Instinct
| as a gift.
|
| Previously, I got a Samsung and it was a buggy piece of junk. The
| Garmin has been extremely reliable, getting regularly doused
| underwater in saltwater when crashing while windsurfing, monitors
| heart rate, and can be hooked up to a heart rate monitor. And I
| charge it maybe once a week.
|
| I looked into Apple Watches and I think Fossil too but they
| didn't seem to fit the bill. Apple has terrible watch battery
| life. I was able to put my Garmin in low power mode and only use
| the GPS when recording a few windsurf sessions, and it lasted 2
| weeks like that without charging while in Europe.
| mc32 wrote:
| Garmins are good. Great battery life. I've bought other
| smartwatches, and this one is the best. Yes, there are UI
| improvements that they could make, but they do what they need
| to do and battery life...
| kilroy123 wrote:
| I feel the same. I love only charging once a week for like an
| hour.
|
| I do wish it was better at sleep tracking...
| mrweasel wrote:
| Sleep tracking is really interesting, but having to sleep
| with a huge watch isn't really appealing to me. Thinking
| about it, combining health tracking with a smart watch seems
| rather conflicted to me, they are mentally on the opposite
| sides of the health spectrum in my mind. One is suppose to
| help you, the other provides yet another way to keep you
| connected draining mental energy.
|
| I really think there should be devices that track health data
| and then just sync data to a computer or phone a few times a
| day. I know the Oura ring exists, but that's a subscription
| and therefor not interesting.
| theshackleford wrote:
| My watch is a pivotal part of my ongoing health management.
| It doesn't drain mental energy, it restores it and also
| means I now have less need for a phone which does have
| things that could serve as a distraction. The watch is now
| largely the only device I carry for that reason.
|
| I suffer cognitive issues following severe health issues,
| the watch helps keep me on track with medication reminders
| and helpful pings to remind me of what I'm supposed to be
| doing/going to that day (drs appointments, scans, reminders
| to perform rehabilitation exercises etc). I can't rely on
| my phone because it's not guaranteed to be with me, but as
| long as I strap the watch on every morning (my partner
| reminds me first thing) I'm set for the day.
|
| No YouTube, HN, web browsing etc, it's far more functional
| for me as a life tool than a phone with a significantly
| larger scope for distraction and time wasting.
| WXLCKNO wrote:
| Just wanna chime in and say my Samsung galaxy watch 5 pro does
| feel like a piece of junk in many regards, but specifically for
| heart rate tracking.
|
| Whether I set it to measure continuously or ever 10 minutes, it
| never captures the real highs of the day.
|
| I've been cycling a ton since I got swift and my first "real"
| bike last autumn and had been pretty sedentary for months
| before.
|
| You'd expect the long term min max heart rate graph to increase
| but it's pretty much the same. The rare times it picks up on my
| elevated heart rate as I bike, it warns me that my "at rest"
| heart rate is high..
|
| I've tried adjusting tightness, even reducing arm hair with a
| clipper as people were saying it can interfere. Nothing
| changed.
|
| It was half off when I bought my phone so I grabbed it but it
| still feels overpriced. For sleep tracking I feel like it's
| been relatively decent and otherwise obviously I get
| notifications and stuff.
|
| But the UI often feels laggy, simple things like entering my
| pin lags.
|
| Ever since I switched from an iPad pro to the galaxy tab s9
| ultra, I do appreciate how well things work when you own
| everything in the same ecosystem but the watch is the low
| point.
| hooloovoo_zoo wrote:
| Apple watch sucks for hr monitoring too FWIW.
| coredog64 wrote:
| It's usually at the top of the reviews done by The
| Quantified Scientist on YouTube. He seems to be pretty
| thorough and has a crap ton of data.
| lancesells wrote:
| It's always matched the heart rate monitor at the doctor's
| office for me which has me thinking it's pretty good. What
| have you found that's off?
| YZF wrote:
| I have a Garmin 235 and the heart rate monitoring also sucks.
| I think now it just stopped working but when I got it new it
| was sort of maybe accurate indoors when you're not moving. As
| soon as you go running or outdoors where sunlight can
| interact with the sensor it's basically useless, either
| measuring your cadence instead of your heart-rate or just
| producing total garbage. So I bought a polar chest strap
| which is incredibly reliable.
|
| It's been a while since I looked at reviews but when I did
| the conclusion seemed to be all wrist based monitors are iffy
| and vary greatly from person to person. Maybe some people
| have a stronger signal at their wrist?
|
| EDIT: I do like the watch though. Lightweight. Durable. Long
| battery life. Accurate GPS. Everything I need to track my
| running.
| JBorrow wrote:
| Well the 235 is nearly a decade old now, there has been
| much improvement in heart rate tracking since then. The 235
| is as old as the original Apple Watch.
| ryukoposting wrote:
| Some of that problem is inherent to the design. Reflective
| PPG just doesn't work great, especially when you're wiggling
| it around everywhere.
|
| There's a whole bunch of signal processing mumbo-jumbo you
| can do to get a clean-ish heart rate from reflective PPG,
| it's just more complicated than Samsung/Apple/etc probably
| care to implement. They're selling you a watch, not a medical
| device. It sucks, but that's advertising.
| GaryNumanVevo wrote:
| For daily use, my Apple Watch Ultra is a much better companion.
| But when it matters, like doing long distance cycling or
| backpacking in the back country, I have a Garmin Epix and an
| InReach that I trust with my life
| latchkey wrote:
| Looks like they have solar charging model too... I wonder if
| that is a gimmick or actually works well?
| mechhacker wrote:
| The one I got as a gift is a solar Instinct. I'll have to ask
| her what she thinks of it. I looked at the log of solar
| activity and it does keep track of solar intensity through
| the day. I just am not sure how much it impacts charging.
| tthayer wrote:
| It depends on where you live. I got an Instinct Crossover
| Solar recently and as far as I can tell, in the PNW it
| provides zero benefit unless I were to spend all day
| outside, every day.
| saltcured wrote:
| It's still going to run down the battery if you are using the
| sport tracking modes, where it enables satellite tracking and
| also increases the sampling and recording rates.
|
| From what I've seen in written reviews and user forums, the
| solar can reduce the rate of discharge but isn't
| realistically going to charge up the watch. It could be
| enough to offset daily basic smartwatch use if you spend time
| with it exposed to bright conditions while you wear it.
|
| Setting it out in bright sun is likely to just overheat it
| and then it won't charge. On your arm, you act as a heat sink
| compared to if it is left on a sunny surface.
| latchkey wrote:
| This is great feedback, especially the part about it over
| heating!
|
| Based on your comment, I'd error on the side of gimmick
| then. =)
| p_l wrote:
| As Fenix 7 usrry, I wouldn't call it a gimmick - in
| sunnier months it definitely reduced the battery drain.
|
| And the watch will report amount of solar energy gathered
| ... Somewhere.
|
| I'd say the main problem is that sometimes the watch
| stays on battery so long I forget it needs a charge at
| all ...
| Fnoord wrote:
| From the review I just read, the Fenix 7 greatly
| increases the solar capacity compared to the Fenix 6.
|
| It looks like a great watch but compared to my Fossil HR
| Collider: far more expensive, color screen instead of
| e-ink.
| nottorp wrote:
| Too bad Garmin only targets the sporty look.
|
| If they made something that looked well with a suit too,
| maybe I'd bite.
|
| Or have they and I'm just not up to date with options?
| nottorp wrote:
| I have a "just a watch" with solar charging from Citizen.
| Solar is enough for that (it has never stopped since i
| bought it) but it probably can't handle backlight, radios
| etc.
| rtpg wrote:
| there are vids that cover it, but honestly? Garmin batteries
| last _a long time_. Especially if you are more of an indoor
| person, they last so long. Good replacement for the Pebble
| tbh
| notdang wrote:
| I also own a Garmin Enduro, but I charge it once per month and
| I do like 5-9 hours of tracked activities per week.
| alas44 wrote:
| Happy owner for 4 years of a Garmin Fenix 5.
|
| I wear it everyday and it has happily survived many water
| sports including a lot of surfing sessions. Practical, no
| bullshit (I don't want most of "smart" watch features, I have
| my phone for that), long battery life (I can record several day
| hike or full ski days without needing a recharge) and quite
| resistant (I took the Sapphire + Titanium version).
|
| Only thing that could make me take a new Garmin model would be
| glucose tracking.
| Fnoord wrote:
| Previous Pebble (Classic v1 and 2) owner here. I was about to
| comment that it doesn't have e-ink and therefore would require
| multiple times a week charging but you mention it lasts a week
| (which the Pebble I mentioned also would target for; I don't
| accept less than a week). My Fossil HR Collider is fantastic
| with regards to battery life, and it only cost about 200 EUR.
| When I bought it I feared it'd remain too niche (it does not
| actually look my a smartwatch with the e-ink). Garmin are very
| well known in the sports sector.
| goosedragons wrote:
| Pebble doesn't have an eInk screen either. Garmin Fenix
| watches use Memory In Pixel displays like the Pebble. This is
| sometimes called an ePaper display which is where the
| confusion comes from I think. It doesn't work like eInk but a
| traditional LCD where each pixel has a bit of memory to allow
| it to not need to be constantly refreshed. The newer Fenix
| watches can get pretty insane battery life, especially the
| solar models, like a month+.
| pedalpete wrote:
| I got a Garmin Epix Gen 2 a few month ago and it's great. It
| looks great and works great.
|
| the UI too a bit to figure out, it isn't as intuitive as
| Samsung, and I assume Apple, but now that I've got the hang of
| it, it's fine.
|
| What I don't understand is why Garmin has SO many different
| models. They all seem basically the same. When I was in the
| store to buy mine, I struck up a conversation with another guy
| looking to buy a Garmin, and we were trying to figure out why
| you'd chose a Fenix over an Epix over (I can't even remember
| the other names).
| wanderingmind wrote:
| As a tangent, I'm looking for a FOSS watch. Last time I checked
| bangle.js met all my requirements but some feedback was the its
| not yet reliable. Has this improved? Also any other alternative
| that has GPS and pedometer?
| mergy wrote:
| This is unfortunate but not unexpected. The whole non-Apple
| ecosystem is a cluster. I can tell you though I have been very
| happy with Withings.
|
| I loved my Fitbits and they went south post-Google. I was not
| into charging a watch every day with my Samsung Galaxy watches.
| Then, enter Withings. I can actually go many days without running
| for a charger. Notifications are fine. I still get steps and
| pulse ox and EKG.
| bradley13 wrote:
| I really liked (past tense) Withings as well. However, the
| mineral glass kept breaking. I paid one replacement, and got
| two others under warranty.
|
| I didn't have this problem with older watches, and I don't have
| it now, with a Fossil.
| nektro wrote:
| a fitbit is all i need in a watch
| isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote:
| I had to replace my charge 5 several times within the last
| couple years, it breaks fairly regularly.
| buro9 wrote:
| this is such a hard segment.
|
| Apple Watch feels like it should be the best, but it's so tightly
| linked to the Apple ecosystem that if you're not all-in then it's
| the worst option (cannot update it if you don't also have an
| iPhone)
|
| Garmin looks great, and their watches are good, but their
| integrations with Apple or Google is weak, and they have so many
| strange quirks to them (just yesterday my partner's Garmin was
| out by 90 minutes for most of the day which baffled me as surely
| NTP + sync time via bluetooth with the phone!?)
|
| Suunto actually is great, except their heart rate tracking is
| pretty average to awful, which is a real shame as the devices are
| otherwise excellent
|
| And then the Google Watch ecosystem... watches that all feel
| laggy, 2nd class, and just lacking polish and finish, even the
| Pixel Watch just feels cheaper than it should
|
| There's so much potential, but everyone slightly misses the mark
| for a different reason. I stick with a Casio G-shock which isn't
| smart, but works exceptionally well for the little it does, but I
| check out smart watches a few times a year... and it feels like
| digital SLRs, for a long time they were worse than a film camera,
| and eventually they were better... smart watches are still in the
| territory of worse, I'm hoping they continue to get better
| nextaccountic wrote:
| > (cannot update it if you don't also have an iPhone)
|
| Really? Can't the EU do anything about it?
| jimjambw wrote:
| It's not even true that you can't update an Apple Watch
| without an iPhone.
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204641
| buro9 wrote:
| I popped into an Apple Store (Covent Garden) recently and
| directly asked (as I want the heart rate monitor Apple
| has)... and the assistant's response was that you need an
| iPhone to set up the watch initially, and that same iPhone
| must be used periodically for updates (which ruled out
| using one in-store to set it up, apparently the watch is
| paired to an iPhone?). I trusted what the Apple person told
| me.
| crooked-v wrote:
| But you need an iPhone to set one up. It's a weird
| vestigial requirement at this point, and I suspect it's
| more about cell carrier limitations than Apple's
| preferences.
| ilarum wrote:
| why would a cell carrier be involved in setting up a wifi
| apple watch
| goosedragons wrote:
| Don't you need an iPhone to even set up the watch?
| eloisant wrote:
| The Galaxy Watch from Samsung works great, even if you don't
| have a Samsung phone.
|
| I keep hearing how much better the Apple Watch is but I still
| can't see how.
|
| To start with, the GW6 classic looks like an actual classy
| watch while the Apple watch looks like a tiny phone strapped to
| your wrist.
| atwebb wrote:
| I was wondering the same thing, the Galaxy Watches (before
| and after Tizen) have always been solid for me, granted we
| don't really have Apple products and I get the ecosystem
| advantage. Samsung does seem to iterate really, really
| fast...or just not sell out of the prior model.
| baking wrote:
| I think it works better if you don't have a Samsung phone.
| heroprotagonist wrote:
| The vast majority of the Apple products which I repeatedly
| hear are superior are used by people who are completely
| locked into their ecosystem and only use Apple products.
|
| Which makes their advice less credible for several possible
| reasons:
|
| * they may not have the exposure to other products to have an
| authoritative opinion,
|
| * or they have used the products in a completely different
| context (eg, within the ecosystem with an iCloud account or
| other accompanying product),
|
| * or they might be expressing a bit of stockholm-esque
| sentiment ("it's the best I can easily use due to the
| limitations in which I can use this particular product and I
| love living within these limitations, so it's clearly the
| best option because everyone should love living within these
| limitations too..")
| nottorp wrote:
| > and only use Apple products.
|
| I use only Apple products (desktop, laptop, phone, ipad),
| but I've never seriously considered the watch. Battery life
| less than a day? Come on...
| callalex wrote:
| The battery life is closer to two days, definitely not
| less than a day.
| nottorp wrote:
| I'm sure I've seen heavy users stating it doesn't last
| them through the day.
|
| But even 2 is ridiculous for a watch. It's not like a
| phone or another device that you use occasionally and can
| even use while it's charging. It's supposed to be there
| on your wrist.
| realusername wrote:
| I'd put a fourth point, the APIs they give to third party
| products are inferior to what they give to their own,
| always.
|
| So even if you wanted to, you could not match the
| experience of being all-in on their ecosystem. That's
| intended, so that other products do not compete with theirs
| and look inferior.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| People aren't kidnapped into the apple ecosystem, they
| choose it because its preferable to no ecosystem at all.
| m-p-3 wrote:
| I wish Garmin made sleeker models, I don't like that they're
| all bulky and tailored to physical activities.
|
| I like that Garmin seems dedicated to their devices, and I
| don't expect them to quit the market anytime soon which gives
| me confidence in their offerings, and their transflective
| display is IMO the way to go to reduce power consumption and
| making it readable in direct sunlight.
|
| But the bulky look, that I feel like it would worn by someone
| in the military doesn't fit my style at all. I want something
| more casual.
|
| EDIT: Ok it does seem like Garmin makes some sleeker models,
| but all of them seems to have an AMOLED display. I just want a
| sleek-looking smartwatch with multi-day/week long battery and
| an always-on display..
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| I did quite a bit of research and went with Withings (even
| though I have the full Apple ecosystem - iPhone, iPad, Mac,
| HomePod, etc.), mostly because I wanted something that had long
| battery life (no daily recharging), looked like a real watch,
| and had reliable cardiac (ECG) tracking. I've had it for a year
| and happy with it.
| buro9 wrote:
| I had not followed their recent products but now I look, I
| agree. One watch ordered, thanks for replying.
| Shawnj2 wrote:
| My problem with Garmin is that the software is shit. The
| hardware is phenomenal, easily everything I could have wanted
| in a Pebble successor except that the design isn't quite as
| fancy, but the software is absolute garbage compared to the
| Pebble I switched from.
| 2dvisio wrote:
| Ex owner of a Pebble (which was fantastic). Have tested (for
| work) a variety of watches and health trackers, loved the Apple
| ones and the Fitbit watches, but ultimately the Withings ones
| were the ones that stuck. Battery life, minimalistic look and
| core functionalities are the best.
|
| Also own a fossil (gift from wife recently) but whenever I can I
| always use my reliable and less power hungry Withings Scanwatch
| erwin-co wrote:
| Another one to look at is Coros. Excellent much more reasonably
| priced alternative to Garmin. EInk. Works underwater. GPS. Maps.
| Notification. Been searching for something good for a while and
| so far this is one to watch[?]
| axegon_ wrote:
| Shame. Many years ago I got a fossil (hybrid) watch(I believe the
| model was called Nate or something). Unfortunately it broke and
| it couldn't be fixed. At the time fossil had already given up on
| the model and the app that came with it. And it was the best
| watch I ever owned by a long shot. And overall fossil were doing
| it exactly right for me: inexpensive, great quality and unlike
| all other smart/semi-smart watches, they were good looking and
| comfortable. All other watches in this category are absolutely
| hideous.
| j4yav wrote:
| I'd really love a regular watch that just looks like a Rolex or
| whatever and has the nice measurements sent to my phone but no
| digital screen.
| claudiuio wrote:
| Maybe a Withings ScanWatch Nova is what you want? It does have
| a tiny digital screen though.
| nottorp wrote:
| Well, I bought a "hybrid smartwatch" from them. Because I hate
| the plastic toy look of most other options, and as a bonus please
| wake me up when the apple watch battery lasts a week.
|
| It sounded good in theory: normal watch with the background e-ink
| that will show your notifications and step count and heart rate
| and whatever. More of a fancy fitness band but that was good
| enough to start with. The battery even lasted 2 weeks.
|
| Unfortunately the eink was almost unreadable unless directly in
| the sun. It had a light you could turn on by tapping the watch
| but it was weak. Need I mention the software to configure it was
| pretty limited? Especially in the part where you configured what
| notifications to get and what not?
|
| But that's not the main problem. The main problem is either the
| glass front wasn't tight enough or it had humidity under it from
| the factory. So every time it got cold and humid it fogged up.
| That never happened to me with any other traditional watch, no
| matter how cheap it was.
|
| And one day... in about 2 years and some change... it just died
| on me.
|
| Waiting a few years and then checking hybrid watches again. Maybe
| this market niche will survive.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| I have a Withings ScanWatch and am quite happy with it; ticks
| the boxes (2 week battery life, notifications, a real analog
| movement, readable inside/outside, looks good). Also ECG which
| is the main reason I got it.
| LelouBil wrote:
| I bought a hybrid smartwatch from them 6 months ago, but I use
| it exclusively with Gadgetbrige.
| Shawnj2 wrote:
| I don't think the fossil style hybrid watch is going to
| survive, I think the hybrid watches we still have are ones
| which completely lack screens or only have extremely basic
| screens for showing health info and lack a user interface for
| checking texts etc.
| solardev wrote:
| The Garmin ones are much better, FWIW. They don't use eink but
| some other fancy technology with good battery life and
| durability and waterproofing.
| nottorp wrote:
| Yeah but they're still plastic sport thingies. Me no like. Me
| no need a smartwatch so me can afford to be picky about
| looks.
|
| I might try a Withings once I get over the Fossil.
| davemp wrote:
| I'm of the opinion that "wearables" don't provide enough
| convenience over just pulling a smartphone out of your pocket to
| justify themselves. Wristwatches only overtook pocket watches
| because they got to the point that they were comparable in
| function.
|
| The physics of reading off a screen is going to keep smartwatches
| in the fashion category unless there are some startrek tier
| breakthroughs.
| Shawnj2 wrote:
| The pebble (and some Garmin watches) is phenomenal at this
| because they have a non backlit AOD so you can always read the
| time like a normal watch. The main other bonus for most people
| right now is health tracking.
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