[HN Gopher] Using AI to teach how to code, remember you still ne...
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       Using AI to teach how to code, remember you still need to think for
       yourself
        
       Author : rntn
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2024-01-27 18:44 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | Might the article's `<title>` block be better than this
       | (presumably; length constrained) edit:                 Think for
       | yourself if you want AI to teach you how to code
        
       | vinceguidry wrote:
       | A friend of mine was trying to tell me how much different Ruby 3
       | was from Ruby 2, he's never even worked with Ruby, and I said
       | that it's not nearly as big as the difference between Python 2
       | and 3. He sent me this hilariously wrong transcript where the bot
       | tried to claim that Ruby 3 changed the class keyword to something
       | else. Not a single one of the bullet points was anywhere even
       | close to being true.
        
         | simonw wrote:
         | Do you know which bot he was using? That's the kind of question
         | I would expect to see wild differences between LLMs - ChatGPT
         | 3.5 v.s. ChatGPT 4 for example I would expect to produce very
         | different levels of quality.
         | 
         | That said, it's a bad idea to try to use the output of ANY LLM
         | as a primary source in this kind of conversation. Distrust and
         | verify!
        
           | CuriouslyC wrote:
           | It helps if you ask the bot to note reputable people in the
           | field and reference original sources for anything
           | significantly outside of common knowledge. That gets you
           | leads for further information and also reduces hallucination
           | somewhat too.
        
           | Zambyte wrote:
           | > That said, it's a bad idea to try to use the output of ANY
           | LLM as a primary source in this kind of conversation.
           | Distrust and verify!
           | 
           | People used to say the same thing about the web. It seems
           | like people are unfortunately very bad at being skeptical
           | right now.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | I have a friend who also relishes sharing these kinds of
         | antidotes, and seems to have decided that AI-augmented coding
         | is a bridge too far.
         | 
         | Personally, I worry that this is a cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-
         | your-face response, and that he'll be unhirable sooner than he
         | expects.
        
       | maroonblazer wrote:
       | It's also worth pointing out that if an LLM gives you code that
       | works, but you can't understand _why_ it works, asking it to
       | explain what each line is doing is remarkably effective.
        
         | logicprog wrote:
         | But if you don't already understand the code and the concepts,
         | you have no way of knowing if it's actually giving you accurate
         | information or just hallucinating or confabulating. That's my
         | fundamental problem with the entire idea of using llms to Aid
         | with this kind of stuff, it's not easy to check it carefully
         | enough unless you already know enough about the topic that you
         | could have just done what you asked it to do faster if you type
         | fast enough, especially considering the amount of time you'll
         | probably have to spend arguing with it and refining the prompt
         | and clarifying and thinking through the logic in detail anyway.
        
       | fknnoob wrote:
       | As if I could get copy pasted code to not error without a few
       | thoughts of my own.
        
       | cwkoss wrote:
       | Coding with AI has been amazing.
       | 
       | I am a pretty 'mid' software developer generally, have been
       | working as a PM for the last 3 years so have gotten rusty. Got
       | laid off in December.
       | 
       | In about 60 hours of work, I've built a MVP React webapp that is
       | hosted on githubpages, uses firebase for a serverless backend,
       | and integrates with OpenAI APIs to turn user requests into
       | structured JSON that serves as a starting point for the users
       | without having to code the complex logic manually.
       | 
       | Just used ChatGPT4 to figure out how to get a domain working with
       | my githubpages hosting (turns out I skipped a step when I read
       | the docs - and DNS issues can be confusing).
       | 
       | Each of those steps had me running into frustrating bugs that I
       | could have spun my wheels on for hours - with ChatGPT4, it didn't
       | always identify the fix immediately, but I was able to debug so
       | much faster, usually resolving the issue in about 30 minutes.
       | More than the time savings, I really appreaciate the effect it
       | has on morale for me: I hate being stuck on a problem and not
       | knowing what to try next. It feels like I have a senior engineer
       | who I can slack a question and get a thoughtful response
       | inhumanly fast at any time of day (even when coding at 2AM).
       | 
       | ChatGPT 4 has been a lot more helpful to me that Copilot, but I
       | might just not know how to get the most out of copilot yet.
       | Copilot is really nice for jumping past writing boilerplate, but
       | ChatGPT 4 can synthesize entire solutions that span multiple
       | files, which I haven't had success getting from copilot.
       | 
       | What's even cooler is that I had never even touched React before
       | 3 weeks ago, and now feel like I'm moderately fluent in the
       | general design principles. If I was doing self-directed study of
       | React starting from the docs, I probably would still be playing
       | with toy hello world problems, but instead I've gotten the
       | project I was hoping to build to a viable prototype.
       | 
       | One source of delight is using AI to synthesize dictionary data.
       | I have a bunch of ingredients that users choose from and being
       | able to "autocomplete" a solid initial draft for new dict entries
       | feels like magic.
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | If you want to see what I built, or are in the Seattle area and
       | want to try out AI-powered natural skincare formulation, here's
       | my shameless plug: https://skincremental.com/
       | 
       | The core is all working and good enough, but probably have
       | another week to get it to where I think it'll be ready to start
       | doing some marketing.
        
         | cwkoss wrote:
         | Anyone have good tips for getting more out of copilot?
        
           | Our_Benefactors wrote:
           | Use a comment to drive the autocomplete on the next line,
           | like:
           | 
           | "// a function takes an array of numbers and returns the
           | array with negative numbers removed "
           | 
           | In my experience this can match GPT-4 in many cases while
           | saving the roundtrip.
        
       | bugglebeetle wrote:
       | GPT-4 is amazing for fairly small scripts and projects, but even
       | with its new, longer context size, its reasoning degrades pretty
       | quickly as the scope of whatever you're doing increases. I
       | frequently have to switch over to a new chat and pipe in the
       | existing code to get it to continue working at a level that is
       | useful.
       | 
       | I've also noticed it makes a lot of mistakes with regard to
       | efficiency, opting for the simplest, brute force strategies for
       | coding whatever is asked. If identified and prompted, it can
       | correct for these kinds of issues, but seems to have a bias
       | toward them for first drafts.
        
       | jacques_chester wrote:
       | I've been grinding Leetcode lately and I've discovered that AI
       | can oftentimes give a better explanation of a solution than
       | Leetcode does. I can also followup questions without scanning
       | through forum posts in hope someone was as confused as I was.
       | 
       | I'm not asking LLMs to write code _for_ me in this scenario -- I
       | need to get by in interviews without AI assistance. But as a
       | personal tutor it is turning out to be helpful.
        
       | scarecrw wrote:
       | I work with students learning to code, some of whom use AI in
       | various ways. I can definitely see AI becoming a valuable tool
       | for them in the future, but most students are currently ill-
       | equipped to take advantage of it.
       | 
       | The most common error I observe from students is not providing
       | sufficient information to get useful results. They'll omit what
       | language or libraries they're intending to use, or restrictions
       | on the set of language features they are or are not familiar
       | with. Because of this, they'll get confident, often correct,
       | responses, which are entirely unhelpful for the work they're
       | doing.
       | 
       | The other issue they'll run into is over- or underestimating the
       | capabilities of tools like ChatGPT. The first time they run into
       | a problem which it isn't immediately able to solve they often
       | give up on using AI as a tool entirely.
       | 
       | I do think AI has value for learners, primarily in an "explainer"
       | role. Allowing students to take a piece of code and ask "what
       | does this do" to get a plain English explanation is extremely
       | powerful. It also can act as a substitute for documentation, as
       | new learners are often disinclined to parse through official
       | documentation, which is rarely beginner-friendly.
        
       | spaceman_2020 wrote:
       | I've been using AI for a LOT of work, from coding to image
       | generation.
       | 
       | Some thoughts:
       | 
       | 1. Midjourney v6 is absolutely fantastic for creating editorial
       | images and brand images. Better than A-tier. Some of the output
       | you can get from it beats the top agency talent I've worked with.
       | You will have to prompt multiple times and it's not magic, but
       | given the cost and time of quality photography and graphic work,
       | it's very cheap and efficient.
       | 
       | 2. ALL text generation is B or C-tier at best. It's fine if you
       | want filler content, but I would never trust any AI tool to
       | actually write on my behalf.
       | 
       | 3. BUT, this cookie cutter writing style is perfect for most dull
       | corporate speak - press releases, corny tweets, boring videos.
       | It's also perfect for customer support. I expect practically all
       | corporate social media accounts, press releases, etc. to be
       | written by AI.
       | 
       | 4. Coding is good until you run into performance or security
       | issues. That said, you can get a MASSIVE productivity boost. It's
       | also great for prototypes and stuff that doesn't need to
       | immediately scale or be heavily performant.
       | 
       | 5. Video is a long, long way off from anything close to
       | production
       | 
       | At present, Midjourney is far ahead of the pack when it comes to
       | image generation. If you haven't seen it yourself, please sign up
       | for a basic subscription and check out their /explore tab. Even
       | if you see it as an art feed, it's incredible work.
       | 
       | For coding, the best I've seen is a combination of a custom GPT
       | like Grimoire on the chatGPT store, plus an IDE with a built-in
       | AI prompt, like Cursor.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-27 23:00 UTC)